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ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER
https://twitter.com/ryxcommar/status/1217871161712893953

Congrats to whichever one of you is on the verge of their first job offer

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Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




lol at standing your ground on $69,420 in San Francisco and having the company think you’re screwing THEM.

love ~ S T A R T U P C U L T U R E ~

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
142069 should've been it

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
feel the ku-bern-etes

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




cube-air-neat-ays

Ferr
Sep 27, 2002

Serious Business Orc
College Slice
I ended up with a phone screen for a job I'm under-qualified for and I can't decide if I should cancel and save the time or try to summon my mediocre white man energy

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




fake it till you make it, Gerald

Asleep Style
Oct 20, 2010

Ferr posted:

I ended up with a phone screen for a job I'm under-qualified for and I can't decide if I should cancel and save the time or try to summon my mediocre white man energy

If you aren't stealing from your job you're stealing from your family

Ferr
Sep 27, 2002

Serious Business Orc
College Slice

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

fake it till you make it, Gerald

It's true. I'm mostly worried about talking my way through the phone screen only to waste half a day of PTO in order to eat poo poo at a whiteboard later.

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

Asleep Style posted:

If you aren't stealing from your job you're stealing from your family

Not a Children
Oct 9, 2012

Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

Asleep Style posted:

If you aren't stealing from your job you're stealing from your family

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




Ferr posted:

It's true. I'm mostly worried about talking my way through the phone screen only to waste half a day of PTO in order to eat poo poo at a whiteboard later.

are you actively looking for work and trying to change jobs? eating poo poo at an interview is good practice and experience for the interview you really want

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Ferr posted:

I ended up with a phone screen for a job I'm under-qualified for and I can't decide if I should cancel and save the time or try to summon my mediocre white man energy

All the wrong people have impostor syndrome

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Sapozhnik posted:

All the wrong people have impostor syndrome
Imposter syndrome is so common here that if you don't have it, you might not belong

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Sapozhnik posted:

All the wrong people have impostor syndrome
its the underemphasized flipside of dunning-kruger - everyone focuses on the finding that dummies overestimate their abilities, but the finding that smart people tend to underestimate their capabilities is just as important

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

ShadowHawk posted:

Imposter syndrome is so common here that if you don't have it, you might not belong

I thought I had enough imposter syndrome, but then I got here and suddenly I'm not so sure :ohdear:

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
I on the other hand do have imposter syndrome, so I know I belong

Ferr
Sep 27, 2002

Serious Business Orc
College Slice
I have almost a year's worth of fruitless interviews under my belt at this point so I come by my impostor syndrome honestly at least

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


it's coo-bern-eights you peons

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Ferr posted:

I have almost a year's worth of fruitless interviews under my belt at this point so I come by my impostor syndrome honestly at least

i had the same as you but then i got a job which pays shitloads more than all of the jobs that i failed to get so keep trying

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
i pronounce it so that it rhymes with di-uh-beet-us, and say it with a twang too

coo-ber-NEET-us

Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jan 18, 2020

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
i usually pronounce it "Q burr net ees" but lately i've been experimenting with just saying "kates"; i'm not sure if i like it or not and im pretty sure noone knows what i mean when i say it

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Corla Plankun posted:

i usually pronounce it "Q burr net ees" but lately i've been experimenting with just saying "kates"; i'm not sure if i like it or not and im pretty sure noone knows what i mean when i say it

this is even worse jesus h, say 'kay-eights' if you're going this route

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

Poopernickel posted:

i pronounce it so that it rhymes with di-uh-beet-us, and say it with a twang too

coo-ber-NEET-us

this is how my extremely german coworker pronounces it

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

im ashamed to say i pronounce it ku-ber-NE-tes like some kind of roman instead of ku-BER-ne-tes

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

extreme props if youve been pronouncing 'cybernetic' as 'kubernetic' all along

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

think todays onsite went really well, no whiteboarding questions and a lot of soft people stuff

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

Sapozhnik posted:

All the wrong people have impostor syndrome

just work in a support role for complex technical poo poo for a few years, it'll cure that straightaway

you may not have full confidence in your abilities, but you will be blown away by how many people are completely and utterly incompetent despite being a "senior devops engineer" or what have you

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
wondering if it is time to start looking for a new job

downsides of current job:
- stressful as hell, i just got a burnout
- figgies are not very high by tech company standards (€65k)

upsides of current job:
- getting as much (paid) sick leave to fix said burnout
- money is better than all my peers at other companies
- got a promotion to management
- got lots of good experience for the CV
- 15-20m commute
- nice people

thinking about trying remote work for US companies to get $$$, or seeing if i can get an amazon/uber/etc job (1h commute tho)

hmm

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




I don’t know a ton about foreign figgies, but did that management promotion come with a bump in pay? basically, are you saying your pay is low even after a raise?

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news
the management promotion (software engineer to team lead of 5 engineers) came with a grand total of €100/mo extra (~2% raise) lmao

when I asked for more, they said that they would fix things in Dec with minimum of a 10% raise, but then I went off sick, so I don't yet know my 2020 comp. but i'm not holding my breath

quote:

basically, are you saying your pay is low even after a raise?

yes

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




yeah man, if they say “we’ll give you a raise” and then they don’t, it’s time to bounce. even if you feel like they might have a reason for not doing it, they should tell you the reason and lay it out clearly, not wait around and let your imagination run wild.

unpacked robinhood
Feb 18, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Mr SuperAwesome posted:

when I asked for more, they said that they would fix things in Dec with minimum of a 10% raise

we'll fix it post Dec

Bored Online
May 25, 2009

We don't need Rome telling us what to do.
looking for some goons to maybe lay out some realistic expectations / advice based on this big dumb carepost:

got my first computer touching job doing baby sysadmin last year. gonna graduate from a mediocre program later this year. the original plan was to get into development come grad time, but now i am weighing pros and cons between that and trying to work more in infrastructure. im not terribly good at algo, but i like organizing information and developing classes and what not. infra work seems pretty cool, writing automation and config files, but seems like less programming in general and a lot less OOP programming. there is also the burnout factor from being on call a lot.

pursuing infrastructure would be starting from a huge deficit because school has not prepared me for it at all, and i never considered it before. i only got this job on the strength of having messed around with linux on my own time. i normally would not consider it if i wasnt working adjacent to it already and getting to see how cool it can be. what does experienced infrastructure work load look like compared to traditional developers, and what kind of career can i pursue on this path? would i be able to transition to dev without a salary hit if necessary? im pretty much a huge idiot, but i work hard and like to learn a lot on my own time.

its been a long time going to school and working full time so im deffo trying to chase some figgies. how do i leverage my current job to a better position (real engineering job) come grad time. it may be more in their interest having me do what i do now instead of trying to move up.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



SRE positions may suit you. some orgs call their sysadmins SREs, but the actual discipline is doing engineering work - automation, monitoring, etc - around infrastructure.

the on-call thing sucks, but any decent org will give you on-call pay, a reasonable schedule, etc

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


also no school program can get you fully prepared for any irl job. all it does is set a general baseline that you build on in the actual field- whichever direction you may decide to go into. i went to a p dece program and all i learned about databases is some joining, lookup tables, what an index is, etc. now i do it for a living

just realize that this is just the beginning and that your first job (or first few jobs) are gonna suck. just keep working at it and keep searching for better opportunities until you find your happy place

PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jan 21, 2020

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

as a sysadmin you'll be writing some scripts here and there, you won't really be coding

Mr SuperAwesome
Apr 6, 2011

im from the bad post police, and i'm afraid i have bad news

you will end up writing lots of YAML. its not necessarily a bad thing. devops/SRE money is also pretty good these days, esp compared to dev roles (ive seen people paying significantly more).

imo, transitioning from infra/sysadmin/devops/SRE (whatever job title you get) to a traditional dev role won't be super easy unless you invest in writing lots of tooling (ie. do dev work as part of your infra role, you will need to force this, it wont happen organically)

my current job straddles infra and dev work, and personally I much prefer dev work, but neither is particularly better or worse. pick whichever you prefer honestly


Achmed Jones posted:

the on-call thing sucks, but any decent org will give you on-call pay, a reasonable schedule, etc

what sort of on-call pay is considered reasonable? i get ~1 day's pay for doing 1 (week-long) shift of on-call. it sure doesn't feel like much

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


how common is it for devs to be expected to provide 24/7 support on their product

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ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Achmed Jones posted:

SRE positions may suit you. some orgs call their sysadmins SREs, but the actual discipline is doing engineering work - automation, monitoring, etc - around infrastructure.

the on-call thing sucks, but any decent org will give you on-call pay, a reasonable schedule, etc
Agreed that SRE sounds like a good fit.

Note that essentially nothing out there prepares people for proper infrastructure jobs. Essentially the only place to get experience with big distributed systems is big tech companies, so it's totally normal for them to hire general programmers and expect to have to train you on them. Similar things are true about really domain-specific software or tools.

That said "infrastructure" like "SRE" can mean a lot of different things depending on the company.

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