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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:These are voted on by Internet smarks. If you did a similar poll in the US, AEW/NXT/NJPW would dominate despite Raw/SmackDown getting better attendance numbers. I remember that data you posted a couple of months ago about fan interactions on social media. It showed that it's NOAH fans who are the hardcores who watch everything.
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Jan 21, 2020 02:41
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:dg fans live in a bubble and has traditionally performed really poorly on this. i know people who were at the show that ultimo returned and they described talking to folks who went "oh so that's the guy they were talking about for months, he seems old" Why do you think dragon gate fans are in a bubble
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Jan 21, 2020 07:33
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Jan 21, 2020 07:34
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Super No Vacancy posted:did they edit the roh stuff out of the japanese version of the msg show or something I think there's symbolic value to it being a New Japan (co-promoted admittedly) show in MSG; that automatically by itself put it on a lot of people's lists and the New Japan side of it being good meant that it didn't fall - sure the ROH section of that show wasn't good but that really didn't matter. That was also used as a justification for why a lot of people supported Mayu Iwatani as women's wrestler of the year in the Tokyo Sports awards even though her match with Kelly Klein wasn't very good: the value there wasn't in the match but was in a Japanese woman signed with a major Joshi promotion working a major title match in Madison Square Garden followed by working the Tokyo Dome in the same year. These awards in particular though really show what audience is the most "online" and most likely to vote in wrestling awards like this. That explains things like NOAH doing very well in lots of this - although you can't really argue against NOAH placing high in a lot of these awards with the 2019 they had - and why AEW and NXT placed at all on the list despite being promotions (sub-promotion in the case of NXT I guess) that don't run Japan or even air regularly in Japan. The people voting for them are the equivalent to people like me that'll vote for SEAdLINNNG or whoever in US-based wrestling awards.
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Jan 21, 2020 10:32
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IceAgeComing posted:I think there's symbolic value to it being a New Japan (co-promoted admittedly) show in MSG; that automatically by itself put it on a lot of people's lists and the New Japan side of it being good meant that it didn't fall - sure the ROH section of that show wasn't good but that really didn't matter. That was also used as a justification for why a lot of people supported Mayu Iwatani as women's wrestler of the year in the Tokyo Sports awards even though her match with Kelly Klein wasn't very good: the value there wasn't in the match but was in a Japanese woman signed with a major Joshi promotion working a major title match in Madison Square Garden followed by working the Tokyo Dome in the same year. You know it's not Western smarks because Lulu Pencil doesn't appear at all.
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Jan 21, 2020 11:29
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:These are voted on by Internet smarks. If you did a similar poll in the US, AEW/NXT/NJPW would dominate despite Raw/SmackDown getting better attendance numbers. Is Dragon Hate widely looked down upon in Japan, though? I’m not going to fix that autocorrect, because I now want a stable called Dragon Hate.
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Jan 21, 2020 15:34
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fez_machine posted:You know it's not Western smarks because Lulu Pencil doesn't appear at all. And the Japanese smarks all posted as one, "Wrap it up Pencailures!"
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Jan 21, 2020 15:37
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Amongst a certain generation of Japanese wrestling fan Dragon Gate is looked down upon but that’s an older group that isn’t voting in these polls. Few reasons for that; from the general stigma about pushing Juniors above heavyweights to their wrestling style to the style of their promotion (they were really the first company to go out of their way to target women which older male fans didn’t like but which everyone does now; they also targeted LGBT people for a time. Basically they weren’t one of the traditional companies or trying to be so old timers didn’t like them; same reason why they don’t like DDT.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:40
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So Japanese Jim Cornettes.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:49
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Smoking Crow posted:Why do you think dragon gate fans are in a bubble Because they literally are. Late 90s and early 00s they marketed to women/lgbt as a strategy doing pseudo-idol stuff over a decade before Bushiroad would adapt it to NJPW. The only wrestling that a lot of the people who originally watched Dragon Gate knew of WAS Dragon Gate. They probably knew of traditional puro companies but it’s not like they were people who were going to Ironhead matches. Whenever they bring in outsiders, it’s not like “oh let’s bring in Kento Miyahara because that’s be a good match.” They’d bring in people like Akebono (before he really was doing wrestling full time) or Hong Man Choi because they have larger pop culture cache that their fans would know of. Edit: Punch McLightning posted:Is Dragon Hate widely looked down upon in Japan, though? As mentioned before, it’s often a generational thing. It’s also a company that for wide stretches is a walled garden and doesn’t collaborate. This all is kinda funny because loads of Joshi (like half of the stardom roster) have mentioned Dragon Gate as the way they got into wrestling. Am I going to take someone like Fumi Saito’s opinion more seriously than like Mayu Iwatani’s? NotQuiteQuentin fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 16:59
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Japanese media in general is also very Tokyo-centric and most wrestling promotions aren't any different but Dragon Gate seems to have always been focused on Western Japan. (The cooler, more badass part)
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Jan 21, 2020 22:32
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it was Dragon Gate matches in ROH that got me into japanese wrestling. I'd seen Kobashi and Misawa but couldn't really 'get it' because I really wanted to see dudes do 640 ranas into springboard topes.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:36
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All the Japanese smarks are just intimidated by how cool and sexy and handsome YAMATO is.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:18
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IceAgeComing posted:Amongst a certain generation of Japanese wrestling fan Dragon Gate is looked down upon but that’s an older group that isn’t voting in these polls. They did a poll to ask exactly how old the voters were. The majority are between 30 and 50 fwiw. https://twitter.com/black_eye2/status/1219881796591996935?s=19
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Jan 22, 2020 14:01
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Dimebags Brain posted:All the Japanese smarks are just intimidated by how cool and sexy and handsome YAMATO is. YAMATO rules hes my DG fav (other than the man Don Fuji)
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Jan 22, 2020 23:12
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Suplex Liberace posted:YAMATO rules hes my DG fav (other than the man Don Fuji) Mocchy for life, heathen
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Jan 23, 2020 07:26
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Mocchy isn't as hot as YAMMATO
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Jan 23, 2020 16:32
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Suplex Liberace posted:Mocchy isn't as hot as YAMMATO Mochi is the hottest 50 year old.
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Jan 23, 2020 16:41
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Live Dragon Gate show in the morning (well, about 12 hours), here's the card January 25th, 2020 Hyogo, Kobe Sambo Hall Open the New Year Gate 2020 Dragon Gate Network Live - 17:45 JST/08:45 GMT/03:45 EST/ 00:45 PST (I think, I just tried to remember timezones that aren't my own. 1. Dragongate vs. Toryumon Jason Lee & Yosuke♡Santa Maria vs. Ryo Saito & Yasushi Kanda 2. Keisuke Okuda & Punch Tominaga vs. Masaaki Mochizuki & Martin Kirby 3. Toryumon vs. R・E・D Kagetora vs. Kazma Sakamoto 4. Toryumon vs. R・E・D Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino vs. BxB Hulk & Takashi Yoshida 6. Ashiyanikki Cup 6 Man Tag Team Tournament A Block 1st Round Toryumon vs. Dragongate Dragon Kid & Susumu Yokosuka & Genki Horiguchi vs. Ben-K, Strong Machine J, Dragon Dia 7. Ashiyanikki Cup 6 Man Tag Team Tournament B Block 1st Round Dragongate vs. R・E・D YAMATO & KAI & Kzy vs. Eita & Big R Shimizu & Kaito Ishida Semi-Finals & Finals of the 6 Man Tag Tournament are on the following day, with an earlier start time (14:45 JST, 5:45 GMT, 00:45 EST, 21:45 PST), BxB Hulk & Takashi Yoshida & Kazma Sakamoto will face Block A match winners, Naruki Doi & Masato Yoshino & Ryo Saito face Block B winners.
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Jan 24, 2020 21:45
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Those Dragon Gate Trios look very intriguing.
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Jan 25, 2020 02:56
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So on the 31st, Dragon Gate is running a Toryumon Reuinion show at Korakuen Hall that'll have English commentary, probably Larry Dallas and Jae. The exact card hasn't been annonced but they have announced a bunch of the people involved: Ryo Saito (Cycler gimmick) Genki Horiguchi (Surfer gimmick) Kenichiro Arai Super Shisa Shachihoko Machine Don Fujii Second Doi Dragon Kid K-ness. Kagetora Konomama Ichikawa Toru Owashi Henry III Sugawara Koichiro Arai Masahiro Takanashi Takeshi Minamino Kanjuro Matsuyama Amigo Suzuki Hisamaru Tajima CHANGO Tsubo Genjin With M2K and more interestingly, Italian Connection reuniting. If it's for a match, this will be Milano Collection A.T.'s first match in at least a decade. 〈M2K〉 Masaaki Mochizuki Yasushi Kanda Susumu Mochizuki 〈Italian Connection〉 YOSSINO “brother” YASSINI Condotti Shuji Milano Collection a.t.
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Jan 26, 2020 03:13
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Isn't it Milanito Collection AT (Tsutomu Oosugi)? DDT has been v. good. Eruption (Sakaguchi/Higuchi/Saki Akai) is yet another great new unit in 2020. They've introduced a sword that lets the current holder main event their Super Saitama Arena show in June. Sasaki has it at the moment.
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Jan 26, 2020 04:56
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:Isn't it Milanito Collection AT (Tsutomu Oosugi)? it's milanito. weird that senga's not on the card. no way that milano would be doing anything given the kind of ocular nerve damage he has (or given how bushiroad'd up he is, i think he had to close up his sports medicine place when he got appointed to be stardom's new head coach). it made naito's ocular muscle thing seem like childs play. edit: also unless something changed over the last week, LD has no clue what half of these guys/their old gimmicks are. Jae's in for a long night.
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Jan 26, 2020 05:27
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HARASHIMA vs. Masato Tanaka for the dang title today was some of that good pro wres.
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Jan 26, 2020 06:32
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Ah drat I've been had. I should have read closer.
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Jan 26, 2020 06:46
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Dimebags Brain posted:So on the 31st, Dragon Gate is running a Toryumon Reuinion show at Korakuen Hall that'll have English commentary, probably Larry Dallas and Jae. The exact card hasn't been annonced but they have announced a bunch of the people involved: With it being billed as Toryumon Reuinion show, is it expected to fit into the broader storylines going on in DG overall?
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Jan 26, 2020 19:26
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Hellblazer187 posted:With it being billed as Toryumon Reuinion show, is it expected to fit into the broader storylines going on in DG overall? It's being presented as a separate show being run by Ultimo Dragon, that while being aired on the Dragon Gate Network, is supposedly completely separate from the broader Dragon Gate world. Though I suppose it's always possible that R.E.D. could show up and crash the party.
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Jan 26, 2020 19:42
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Toryumon reunion and no sign of CIMA. I wish they'd patch up just a little.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:13
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Dragon Gate can have little a CIMA, as a treat.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:15
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Adaptabullshit posted:Toryumon reunion and no sign of CIMA. I wish they'd patch up just a little. Even if they wanted to make up, Stronghearts are in North America at present (assume they've been relegated to Dark in an AEW appearance, and also doing a few dates with IWRG. Which is funny because Shun Skywalker is there on excursion and isn't on any show Stronghearts appear on. ) so don't have that date open. I figure if there would ever be reconciliation it'll be several years off yet.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:15
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forkboy84 posted:Even if they wanted to make up, Stronghearts are in North America at present (assume they've been relegated to Dark in an AEW appearance, and also doing a few dates with IWRG. Which is funny because Shun Skywalker is there on excursion and isn't on any show Stronghearts appear on. ) so don't have that date open. The owe/dg situation got described to me as “you don’t ask about cima, he is not to be talked about” backstage. Originally I thought it would be a couple of years away, but as the days go by and the more places STH pop up at the more I don’t think there’s going to be a reconciliation.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:06
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Never say never in wrestling.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:39
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yeah the Ultimo Dragon return thing pretty much required unanimous consent backstage at Dragon Gate IIRC. CIMA's still pretty divisive.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:12
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coconono posted:yeah the Ultimo Dragon return thing pretty much required unanimous consent backstage at Dragon Gate IIRC. CIMA's still pretty divisive. People who are within the company have described it as one or the other. Having all these 20th anniversary celebrations with CIMA excised from all of the footage? This is going to take a long time to mend. I’ve had people within the company tell me to lay off OWE coverage on my shows and talk poo poo about the ones that left. It’s not a pretty situation.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:25
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OK, please explain for a newbie a bit about the Cima/DG split. All I know about Cima is what I've seen on AEW.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:29
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Hellblazer187 posted:OK, please explain for a newbie a bit about the Cima/DG split. All I know about Cima is what I've seen on AEW. CIMA was an OG Ultimo Dragon student, and OG Dragon Gate roster member and eventually gained enough influence/position that him leaving to start OWE was a BIG DEAL backstage. Some people supported his move and others think he's a selfish prick. This would be the equivalent of Hulk Hogan going to WCW levels of WWF upset
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Jan 27, 2020 18:35
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Punch McLightning posted:Never say never in wrestling. After Bret Hart AND Warrior appeared on WWE TV when nobody thought they would ever again, I'd say this is accurate
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Jan 27, 2020 18:43
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e: nm, I'm dumb
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Jan 27, 2020 18:47
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Hellblazer187 posted:OK, please explain for a newbie a bit about the Cima/DG split. All I know about Cima is what I've seen on AEW. I wrote a piece about 18 months ago about the split that I had a couple of interviews with people close to the situation about the split: https://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2018/07/21/what-gates-may-come-dragon-gates-turbulent-year/
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Jan 27, 2020 19:01
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based on coco's short description I feel like I'm on Cima's side (always side with labor) but I'll take a look at NQQ's longer write up. Thanks!
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Jan 27, 2020 19:05
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