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Listening to these cowards infuriating.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:13
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Saw this from earlier https://twitter.com/KevinMKruse/status/1219694564497293317?s=20 I want more of this
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Jan 21, 2020 22:16
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Who the gently caress is Patrick Phiblip and why is he a real person and not a magic card?
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Jan 21, 2020 22:25
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https://twitter.com/Civiqs/status/1219721085844721665?s=19 this is probably part of why the purple state chuds had mild rebellion against yurtle.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:27
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loooooool @ schiff saying that a judge would be taken out of court in handcuffs if he made a deal with the defendant to not let the prosecutor call any witnesses
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Jan 21, 2020 22:30
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Tibalt posted:I have pretty much the exact opposite analysis - Americans have been surprisingly bipartisan in viewing Trump's conduct as at least inappropriate. More reminders, consistently delivered over weeks, will just solidify the association in people's minds. The longer attention is paid to things like this, the more pressure on someone to break and reveal more incriminating information - Parnas being the current example. And it's hard to say whether Americans will care about the legitimacy of the Senate trial, but the opposite of outrage isn't support, it's indifference. I suspect that "trial" phrasing is creating expectations in the American public, and "sham trial" is going to be unpopular. Americans at large for the most part I think will care, just not Republicans as usual. So much consideration is owed to what Republicans who have already largely made their bed with Trump come hell or high water think and while they are largely an unmovable impossible to persuade chunk of the American public that view everything through an "US vs the Democrats" POV they are not the majority of Americans. When 69% of the American public thinks there should be witnesses called in the senate trial and Mitch McConnell just says "NOPE!" that says a lot to me at where things really are at. mcmagic posted:Schumer is a feckless moron so him being the majority leader would provide a whole new set of problems. That would not hold even a candle to the myriad problems we're already getting from Mitch McConnell and his open willingness to change rules on the fly as he sees fit. Lots of policy areas where I disagree with Schumer on (Death Penalty and Israel being among the most notable), but not the total breakdown of any sort of morality and understanding of what is required of their position as a sitting senator that I see from McConnell who is outright appalling. I'm pretty sure Schumer is already on record as saying how the process would have gone under his watch too. You know, calling witnesses, examining the evidence, due cross examination and counter arguments from the defense, closing arguments and a lengthy deliberation before casting a vote to convict or acquit. Unless he's absolutely lying his face off about it I'm not sure what this whole new set of problems you seem to foresee might even look like or what your basing that assumption on. On a whole based on observing the United States political environment over the past 20 years or so the impression I'm inevitably left with is the Democratic party just seems to concern itself far far less with partisan hackery in how it conducts itself than the GOP by leaps and bounds. I'm not sure what other interpretation I could possibly arrive too given the facts and observing their behaviors. One party often fails to live up to everything people hope it could be, but tends to operate within a certain set of rules and procedures and tends to make reference to and operate to a large degree around observable public opinions based in hard facts and statistics. The other steadfastly denies reality and facts, makes no indication that it is concerned at all with what the public at large thinks beyond blocs that are just enough to get it's candidates elected to congress (and even then the concern stops at that level of consideration) and recently is actively vindictive towards and wants to work against the interests of the states in the country that chose to elect their political rivals to govern them out of sheer spite. One is a diamond in the rough that is slowly starting to receive new blood, new ideas and feels like it will inevitably shift more towards representing the demographics and leanings of the country if current trends keep up election to election. The other is terrifying in it's sheer vindictiveness and gives the impression more of an occupying 18th century foreign imperial power's behavior imposing it's will on a populace it is largely unconcerned with the well being of than a democratically elected and oriented political body. Kale fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 22:42
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I like schiff's last word being "we're ready, we call john bolton" followed immediately by a vote to have no witnesses. I think that soundbite will play well
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Jan 21, 2020 22:45
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I can't stress enough how glad I am that Schiff is able to take part in this whole part of the process and there was apparently nothing McConnell could do to shut him out of it. That's kind of of significant for impressions that can be left even if it won't effect the outcome at all since he's a very effective lawyer when it comes to establishing a case and setting an effective lens on matters. If this were a jury that was even remotely persuadable........
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Jan 21, 2020 22:50
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So far this is playing out exactly as we assumed, no?
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Jan 21, 2020 22:50
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cr0y posted:So far this is playing out exactly as we assumed, no? Schumer didn't play their "we'll call witnesses later" game. The Dems get a head start on messaging that the GOP is blocking witnesses
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Jan 21, 2020 22:55
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cr0y posted:So far this is playing out exactly as we assumed, no? If you mean Schumer proposing entirely reasonable amendments on introducing admissible evidence and witnesses that should have been part of the process the first place and the Republican majority immediately rejecting it then yeah. What kind of trial let alone one this significant figures forgoing the inclusion of relevant evidence and exhaustion of all possible avenues of discovery and consideration of evidence and witnesses before deliberation has anything to do with Due Process and Jurisprudence? It cannot be stated how bad an appalling this truly is, especially as someone who took a non-insignificant number of law courses throughout their high school and university attendance. The kind of conversations that must be going around various law courses and lectures throughout the United States must be something else right now as any law professor or expert is no doubt beside themselves at the sight of all of this and an entire segment of the countries law makers effectively going "Nope who cares, Laws Schmaws, Process Schmocess". The sheer damage to the very idea of rule of law and the justice system of the United States is effectively under attack here by Republicans.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:04
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https://twitter.com/jonward11/status/1219740489387212801
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Jan 21, 2020 23:05
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I'm a bit confused as to how the republicans can pass McConnell's rules without breaking the filibuster. At the very least, why isn't this more of a talking point for dems?
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Jan 21, 2020 23:10
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plogo posted:I'm a bit confused as to how the republicans can pass McConnell's rules without breaking the filibuster. At the very least, why isn't this more of a talking point for dems? not filibuster-able
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Jan 21, 2020 23:11
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plogo posted:I'm a bit confused as to how the republicans can pass McConnell's rules without breaking the filibuster. At the very least, why isn't this more of a talking point for dems? The filibuster at this point only applies to legislation, adopting the rules for impeachment and other internal Senate business is a simple majority vote.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:11
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Kind of a little late to try to play the whole reasonable moderate Republican senator card, but I'll guess we'll see how this plays out. Collins is kind of acting like a lame duck senator that figures she's done after this term and will flip flop and piss on as many influential senators plans as she can on the way out McCain style be they Democrat or Republican to try to get into history books. Like the degree to which she's willing to stick her head out as much as possible on lynchpin controversial votes one way or another is admittedly kind of unique as far as the current Washington environment goes I'll give her that much. In some ways she might actually be the most grandstanding politician in the entire Senate.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:12
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haveblue posted:The filibuster at this point only applies to legislation, adopting the rules for impeachment and other internal Senate business is a simple majority vote. would also be a bit weird if you could avoid having an impeachment trial through the filibuster
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Jan 21, 2020 23:13
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Kale posted:Kind of a little late to try to play the whole reasonable moderate Republican senator card, but I'll guess we'll see how this plays out. Collins is kind of acting like a lame duck senator that figures she's done after this term and will flip flop and piss on as many influential senators plans as she can on the way out McCain style be they Democrat or Republican to try to get into history books. Like the degree to which she's willing to stick her head out as much as possible on lynchpin controversial votes one way or another is admittedly kind of unique as far as the current Washington environment goes I'll give her that much. In some ways she might actually be the most grandstanding politician in the entire Senate. The more polarized the senate becomes, the more power and clout these centrists can demand (and get!). John McCain is gonna end up looking like a lightweight compared to this generation's moderate R's.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:15
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I know this is absolutely impossible but imagine for a second the drama of enough senators surprising the turtle and voting against his poo poo...just imagine how amazing that would be. Like McCain and the thumbs down but x100
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Jan 21, 2020 23:15
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Collins is absolutely cooked no matter what she does, hopefully.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:16
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Kale posted:Kind of a little late to try to play the whole reasonable moderate Republican senator card, but I'll guess we'll see how this plays out. Collins is kind of acting like a lame duck senator that figures she's done after this term and will flip flop and piss on as many influential senators plans as she can on the way out McCain style be they Democrat or Republican to try to get into history books. Like the degree to which she's willing to stick her head out as much as possible on lynchpin controversial votes one way or another is admittedly kind of unique as far as the current Washington environment goes I'll give her that much. In some ways she might actually be the most grandstanding politician in the entire Senate. I mean the crazy thing is that she's dead if she goes along with Trump, but she's already blown that via Kavanaugh and in the early stages of impeachment. Going full anti-trump seems like the only way to redeem herself, but that would probably fail too at this point. She's a dead woman walking, so she should only be considering her legacy, which she also apparently doesn't care about
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Jan 21, 2020 23:17
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Romney is the biggest coward of them all though. His seat is safe regardless
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Jan 21, 2020 23:18
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haveblue posted:The filibuster at this point only applies to legislation, adopting the rules for impeachment and other internal Senate business is a simple majority vote. Do you know when it got changed? Wikipedia says that a rules change could be filibustered as of 2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_United_States_Senate#cite_note-rule22-1 . Isn't there still a thing where they can delay for like 3 days or something?
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Jan 21, 2020 23:19
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radicaldreamer posted:The more polarized the senate becomes, the more power and clout these centrists can demand (and get!). John McCain is gonna end up looking like a lightweight compared to this generation's moderate R's. Yeah that sounds about right honestly. Also found this based on how McConnell has set up the process for a likely schedule for all of this: Tomorrow: Democratic arguments Thursday: Democratic arguments Friday: Democratic arguments Saturday: Trump team arguments Monday: Trump team arguments Jan. 28: Trump team arguments Jan. 29: Senator questions Jan 30: Senator questions Jan 31: Four hours of debate on whether to subpoena witnesses and subpoenas, a vote on witnesses and documents, and a vote on other motions; If all votes fail, the Senate could move to the acquittal vote Absolutely loving ridiculous if that ends up being the case. Effectively the length of 3 Phoenix Wright cases worth of process, not even a full game.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:20
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oxsnard posted:Romney is the biggest coward of them all though. His seat is safe regardless rich guy needed a job and a mic because he was bored of retirement
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Jan 21, 2020 23:21
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plogo posted:Do you know when it got changed? Wikipedia says that a rules change could be filibustered as of 2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_in_the_United_States_Senate#cite_note-rule22-1 . Isn't there still a thing where they can delay for like 3 days or something? there is a very thorough writeup about the filibuster here. tl;dr the only real question is whether trying to filibuster this and inevitably losing when it's ruled Officially Not Able to Be Filibustered would be a stunt that helps them or not. i suspect they've made the decision that trying and immediately losing won't really help them and isn't worth bothering
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Jan 21, 2020 23:22
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oxsnard posted:She's a dead woman walking, so she should only be considering her legacy, which she also apparently doesn't care about That's not really a thing for modern GOP orthodoxy. They don't really have to do anything to secure their legacy because they're already venerated as war heroes against the pink and rainbow tide. Since Reagan left office as a drooling bobble head, it became pretty clear to everyone that the culture war needed symbols, not actors. FOX learned this lesson and started lionizing every member of the GOP who held the line, regardless of anything else they may have done (pedophilia, gay scandals, abortions, thievery, treason, whatever) except in cases where they showed disloyalty to The Party (that is, FOX itself and the current leadership). Collins will probably get the McCain treatment if she continues to be a Good Girl and stop at being "concerned." Part of that is that she's got so many friends in the news because she's always yacking about her fake morals to them, but the biggest part is that reality doesn't matter to the right wing orthodoxy. In terms of impeachment, I haven't been able to follow along much. Did the vote for no witnesses go through? Does that mean they're going to revisit it after the 3 day deliberation period or ... what? Just like, "nah, we don't need evidence."?
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Jan 21, 2020 23:26
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eke out posted:there is a very thorough writeup about the filibuster here. Thanks I appreciate the link. Personally, I think going through the hoops and forcing the parliamentarian to make a ruling would be to the dems advantage. Claiming McConnell used the nuclear option here, regardless of the merits, seems to be the best thing to do politically. It’s been pretty taxing to see Schumer as compared to Harry Reid when it comes to leveraging procedure.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:30
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"Ukraine and the Oligarchs got him by the balls and his butthole is sewed up" - random C-Span caller referring to Trump in the year of our lord 2020
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Jan 21, 2020 23:44
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This is so loving boring. I don't know what I'm going to do until this ends. I usually watch politics all day. Maybe I'll get used to it?
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Jan 22, 2020 00:02
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so what votes are tonight?
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Jan 22, 2020 00:03
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This is gonna be boring until it's time for the witness votes following the presentations. Speaking of, how will the Republicans fill 24 hours of presentation? It's gonna be painful
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Jan 22, 2020 00:05
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oxsnard posted:This is gonna be boring until it's time for the witness votes following the presentations. Speaking of, how will the Republicans fill 24 hours of presentation? It's gonna be painful they will just make poo poo up and say insane poo poo which is fine by me. its clear they have no real defence for trump so its gonna be breitbart level poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:07
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5 hours of the esteemed Mr. Ben Ghazi's greatest and latest hits.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:09
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The Human Crouton posted:This is so loving boring. I don't know what I'm going to do until this ends. I usually watch politics all day. This would be a great time to break a bad habit 
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Jan 22, 2020 00:09
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oxsnard posted:This is gonna be boring until it's time for the witness votes following the presentations. Speaking of, how will the Republicans fill 24 hours of presentation? It's gonna be painful That's like a half hour per senator. That's easy for them.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:16
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Ershalim posted:That's not really a thing for modern GOP orthodoxy. They don't really have to do anything to secure their legacy because they're already venerated as war heroes against the pink and rainbow tide. Since Reagan left office as a drooling bobble head, it became pretty clear to everyone that the culture war needed symbols, not actors. FOX learned this lesson and started lionizing every member of the GOP who held the line, regardless of anything else they may have done (pedophilia, gay scandals, abortions, thievery, treason, whatever) except in cases where they showed disloyalty to The Party (that is, FOX itself and the current leadership). All of this only happens if she remains useful (in office). If she gets turfed for six years she can't give them anything.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:17
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FizFashizzle posted:That's like a half hour per senator. That's easy for them. senators don't talk https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1219761516330848258
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Jan 22, 2020 00:19
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eke out posted:senators don't talk  so its just gonna be trump's gynyu force making GBS threads out their mouths for like 3 days.
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Jan 22, 2020 00:23
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eke out posted:literally pounding the table over and over again Old lawyer saying "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table."
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Jan 22, 2020 00:39
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