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If TWW3 doesn't revamp siege battles I will be majorly disappointed.
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Jan 23, 2020 03:59
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:43 |
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I love this mod so much. What are some interesting race/starts that would be fun to try out?
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Jan 23, 2020 04:01
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Edit: Curse you double post!
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Jan 23, 2020 04:02
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Nash posted:I love this mod so much. What are some interesting race/starts that would be fun to try out? I haven’t used it too much, someone did mention bringing Wulfrik to Skeggi was good times. I successfully moved Maleghor to a better start, just had to disband the other horde to do it.
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Jan 23, 2020 04:16
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queef anxiety posted:If TWW3 doesn't revamp siege battles I will be majorly disappointed. I think a core problem is that pathing is an issue. If you've ever played the GCCM maps they are beautiful and fun in theory, but the games physics and poor AI completely ruin the experience. Still, I'd love to see: -Custom placement of defense towers via 'hard points' scattered through the map, along with other pre deployed defenses to slow down attackers (palisades, moats of lava/warpstone runoff/ orc doodoo, etc). Upgrading your defense building gives you more 'points' to use various defenses and additional hardpints to deploy them. -More control over where units deploy from map edges and deployment areas in general, so you can have flying units come in from behind castle defenders, reinforcements deploy from tactically efficient vectors, etc.
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Jan 23, 2020 04:39
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Yeah the pathing rears it's ugly head with gates as well. Nothing like having half of your units stuck running around an open gate while your lord is on the other side getting gooned.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:13
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sieges have never been good in total war games. add magic and ranged potency the series has never seen and giving the player-defender more advantages (even something as simple as more paths to confuse and trap the ai) and i dont know how you create a sense of threat.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:14
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I remember posting about how I wished the AI would sally out of the gates when outmatched in ranged firepower during sieges, but TBH that would more likely result in clusterfucks when every single unit gets gummed up in the city entrance, leading to a faster slaughter through magic and/or gunlines. And TBH? Still better than them just sitting there and getting shot to death. At least sieges would resolve faster that way.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:48
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How's pathing in 3K? I know it's got full siege maps which I assume means it'd have to be better for it to function.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:58
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Twigand Berries posted:I haven’t used it too much, someone did mention bringing Wulfrik to Skeggi was good times. I successfully moved Maleghor to a better start, just had to disband the other horde to do it. Move any of the Chaos Warriors factions to Aghol territory and pretend they took a wrong turn while bumbling around the Chaos Wastes
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Jan 23, 2020 08:00
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Fat Samurai posted:I have been playing a Teclis campaign for the last two days after not playing High Elves since forever. Taking the starting province and the one with octopusface was easy, but I had to skip the Vampire Coast due to vampiric corruption and the hellwar with Gor Rok and its neverending stacks of dinosaurs was a big mistake. So the solution to all this was to start a new game as Nakai and conquer Lothern by turn 20. gently caress corruption and unrest.
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Jan 23, 2020 08:31
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Playing a Skyre game and holy heck did this one go weird. Reikland died early on so the entirety of the Empire is fractured and not uniting, and Bretonnia got their backsides kicked by Marienburg a fair amount. So when the Dwarves kick off their hell-war against me all their allies are individually weak and pull out of the fight super fast. The High Elves have conquered all of Ulthuan and Naggarond and would have Lustria too except the Vampire Pirates are holding out. So I'm leading this weird little coalition of Pirates, Khemri, Clan Mors and myself as we drag the Dwarves down to get ready for the High Elves. I've got Ikit around Bretonnia just clearing them up for the white sails to come but so far they're still a ways out.
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Jan 23, 2020 10:21
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I don't think i've ever had the AI break one of my siege towers. Maybe in like, the first game but i'm fairly sure they've nerfed towers since then.
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Jan 23, 2020 14:08
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Stepping up my game to go after those VH victory achievements. Can someone confirm that I only need to do VH for campaign difficulty? And what are the mechanic changes with higher difficulties? I assume more numerous and advanced armies, anything else to be aware of? Appreciate this thread, reading about other folks campaigns always gets me itching to try the same ideas!
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Jan 23, 2020 14:40
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Last night I started a game as gor rok, and a full stack of skaven rebels besieged my lvl 4 capital The absolute horror of upgraded lizardmen towers was frankly disgusting to behold. All of their siege towers died in maybe 3 or 4 hits, and then the massive fireballs laid waste to their entire army. They routed before ever touching the walls. That's my defensive tower story thanks
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Jan 23, 2020 14:52
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Safety Helmet posted:Stepping up my game to go after those VH victory achievements. Can someone confirm that I only need to do VH for campaign difficulty? And what are the mechanic changes with higher difficulties? I assume more numerous and advanced armies, anything else to be aware of? Can confirm campaign difficulty is the only one that matters for achievments! I usually play on VH/N since i get annoyed when archers win in melee vs my flanking harpies, but i want lots of enemy armies to fight, amd have gotten both TK and Lizardmen cheevo with these settings.
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Jan 23, 2020 14:56
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It typically means the enemy will throw a gajillion stacks at you. I like it.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:20
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VH/H seems to be the sweet spot for a bit of challenge but not stupid poo poo like unbreakable militia units or coked-out chariots with 10k APM. Having a campaign difficulty below VH makes things way, way too easy after you have even a little momentum.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:39
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jokes posted:VH/H seems to be the sweet spot for a bit of challenge but not stupid poo poo like unbreakable militia units or coked-out chariots with 10k APM. Having a campaign difficulty below VH makes things way, way too easy after you have even a little momentum.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:52
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I usually stick to Hard since it seems like at Very Hard you can screw up your initial efforts to establish a toe hold more easily. That, and penalties to diplomacy, corruption resistance and public order feel extremely arbitrary. There's skills and buildings designed around either ruining enemy public order or spreading corruption but they barely make an impact on harder difficulties.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:59
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Am I remembering wrong, or in Rome Total War (and maybe Medieval II) the AI would sometimes arrange their army in the town square and wait for you there rather than contest the walls, leading to a meat grinder at the town square feeder streets. That was at least more entertaining than sieges now where the AI just waits to be shot at your leisure, helpfully facing half its shielded infantry backwards on the walls.
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Jan 23, 2020 16:10
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Enigma posted:Am I remembering wrong, or in Rome Total War (and maybe Medieval II) the AI would sometimes arrange their army in the town square and wait for you there rather than contest the walls, leading to a meat grinder at the town square feeder streets. That was at least more entertaining than sieges now where the AI just waits to be shot at your leisure, helpfully facing half its shielded infantry backwards on the walls. they both did that
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Jan 23, 2020 17:14
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Mordja posted:How's pathing in 3K? I know it's got full siege maps which I assume means it'd have to be better for it to function. AI on defense in 3k is pretty good honestly. I think the key is how they made the maps. They have more structured lanes, but at the same time, feel open enough to give an expansive look with multiple angles for attack. They also have towers throughout the maps, not only just on the walls. This really helps the AI on defense because it forces the player to keep driving onward instead of taking all the time in the world to surround the AI from 3 different streets from 3 different angles. If the player farts around trying to split the AI too much you will take serious casualties from the towers. The most common “sieges” are for non walled settlements, which have a separate map for each type, but all maps of that same type are the same. So siege of iron mine A looks like iron mine X, and there are probably 15-20 different types. Variety is pretty good and these semi fortified sieges have been my favorite in the series. Let’s hope they iterate on this style for Warhammer. Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 17:31
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Enigma posted:Am I remembering wrong, or in Rome Total War (and maybe Medieval II) the AI would sometimes arrange their army in the town square and wait for you there rather than contest the walls, leading to a meat grinder at the town square feeder streets. That was at least more entertaining than sieges now where the AI just waits to be shot at your leisure, helpfully facing half its shielded infantry backwards on the walls. Fun fact: If your entire army has stalking when the siege starts (Like you can get with Eshin), the AI doesn't know where to place its defenders, and will do just this.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:45
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AI does inexplicably have attackers rout directly toward your town square, rally and manage to capture it, which is pretty annoying. And with some overhauls, it is sometimes just safer to bunker up around your town square and abandon walls and gates. Dwarves in particular can grind down massively more numerous forces this way.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:01
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Captain Beans posted:AI on defense in 3k is pretty good honestly. I think the key is how they made the maps. They have more structured lanes, but at the same time, feel open enough to give an expansive look with multiple angles for attack. They also have towers throughout the maps, not only just on the walls. This really helps the AI on defense because it forces the player to keep driving onward instead of taking all the time in the world to surround the AI from 3 different streets from 3 different angles. If the player farts around trying to split the AI too much you will take serious casualties from the towers. In 3k sieges you can also use fire to your advantage. Defensive towers have limited range and your catapults can outrange (but your catapults have limited ammo, there's more towers than you have flaming oil pots) it, so you can use catapults in advance of the main formation and burn out your route in vs WH2 defensive towers having infinite range forcing you to push past it as quick as possible. Also in 3k you can instead opt to go for collateral damage and burn the actual city itself (giving the defenders morale and attack/defense penalties). 3k Catapults and siege bows are loving scary and even on the standard non-flaming shots they murder infantry by the score, but they are also limited to a specific type of general, the strategists, which is a utility/support type general that is lovely in actual punch ups. If you know you're going after walled cities, they are useful, but in general field battle there is pros/cons to running with catapults/bows vs someone who specializes in more elite cav (which can also turbo murder anyone they come in contact with)
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Jan 23, 2020 18:01
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Captain Beans posted:AI on defense in 3k is pretty good honestly. I think the key is how they made the maps. They have more structured lanes, but at the same time, feel open enough to give an expansive look with multiple angles for attack. They also have towers throughout the maps, not only just on the walls. This really helps the AI on defense because it forces the player to keep driving onward instead of taking all the time in the world to surround the AI from 3 different streets from 3 different angles. If the player farts around trying to split the AI too much you will take serious casualties from the towers.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:10
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This makes sieges sound super tedious because my biggest problem with sieges in Warhams 2 is that the defensive towers have infinite range on 90% of the maps which forces you to advance or stack your entire army in a tiny copse of trees, or game the tower angles and put them hugging the side of the map forward of the tower's arc. It makes seiges stupid and it needs to change, so why would I want the AI to have more towers spread around the map forcing me to rush everything forward to die? Towers have a relatively limited range, and there are ways to deal with them. This creates safe pockets in the city where you can regroup and redeploy. Additionally, since towers fire at the closest target you can use hardened shield units in formation to block most or all of the arrows if you advance carefully
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Jan 23, 2020 18:13
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Kaza42 posted:Towers have a relatively limited range, and there are ways to deal with them. This creates safe pockets in the city where you can regroup and redeploy. Additionally, since towers fire at the closest target you can use hardened shield units in formation to block most or all of the arrows if you advance carefully
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Jan 23, 2020 18:15
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Ah, that actually sounds like it could be.... fun and interesting? Maybe? In a siege?!? It is. And barricade deployables help the defender control the flow of the siege. But Trebuchets outrange towers significantly, so the attacker (who usually has at least some siege weapons) can demolish some (but not all) of the towers. It feels like a back-and-forth effort to define where and how the battle goes
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Jan 23, 2020 18:17
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Ah, that actually sounds like it could be.... fun and interesting? Maybe? In a siege?!? Also, regular rear end militia archers can kill towers (and wooden walls) with fire arrows. And the AI will actually burn your towers before attacking.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:20
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This is all making 3K sound way more exciting than anything else I've seen or read about it.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:34
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:This makes sieges sound super tedious because my biggest problem with sieges in Warhams 2 is that the defensive towers have infinite range on 90% of the maps which forces you to advance or stack your entire army in a tiny copse of trees, or game the tower angles and put them hugging the side of the map forward of the tower's arc. It makes seiges stupid and it needs to change, so why would I want the AI to have more towers spread around the map forcing me to rush everything forward to die? Rather than gaming the towers in game why not just get the mod that shortens their range?
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Jan 23, 2020 19:15
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Enigma posted:This is all making 3K sound way more exciting than anything else I've seen or read about it. 3K is great. I still prefer the WH games but 3K has a lot of mechanics I wish would get ported over. The diplomacy system alone is a huge breath of fresh air since you don't have to fiddle around trying to guess how to make a deal. The menu just straight up tells you "you need to get 10 favorability points with this guy in order for him to accept a deal" and then you can go through and see that trading him some horses and items will add up to 8, and then throw some cash on top to hit 10, and boom, guaranteed accepted deal. It can allow you to gauge that an enemy is ready to accept peace, but maybe you push them hard for another 2 or 3 turns to get an even better deal out of them, etc. The other thing I really like about 3K is that you kind of start to get invested in your characters in a way I've never felt in the past games. There have been times when I've allowed a settlement to be taken or avoided a battle I could probably win because I didn't want the general to die in battle because he's married to my daughter, for example.
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Jan 23, 2020 19:19
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Are unfilial and fatuous sons represented properly?
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Jan 23, 2020 19:40
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Empires updated campaign is a better form of diplomacy, where merging the various provinces is a little more transparent--build up fealty via research, helping your allies, and returning their territory back to them. You can also dick them around if you want and get a limited version of high elf intrigue. It feels like a race to 'unite the provinces' before end times hits, though you don't NEED to do this necessarily so you're free to play around in the badlands or commit Frenchicide if you want as well. Current campaign starting as volkmar got me gelt and Franz by turn 30, not too shabby
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Jan 23, 2020 20:10
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Twigand Berries posted:Rather than gaming the towers in game why not just get the mod that shortens their range?
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Jan 23, 2020 20:14
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I'll have to pick up 3K on sale then. As high elves it's fun to use influence to spark proxy wars so you can easily and inexpensively confederate the loser. It's especially useful once Ulthuan becomes a pointy-eared hugbox.
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Jan 23, 2020 20:15
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Related to sales, there's a half of sale on a couple of the Warham 2 DLCs. Probably others but I can't be assed up trawl for the others.
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Jan 23, 2020 20:36
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:43 |
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Nash posted:I love this mod so much. What are some interesting race/starts that would be fun to try out? Wood Elves in Lustria, you wont be able to recruit any new units except regiments of reknown and lords plus any move you make will sic endless enemy stacks after your poor garrisons, finite amount of starter troops and RoRs. This naturally assumes the oak doesn’t go poof when you switch settlement.
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Jan 23, 2020 21:51
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