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U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alleged Concentration Camp in China quote:U.S. representatives have found no evidence to support allegations that a site in northeast China has been used as a concentration camp to jail Falun Gong practitioners and harvest their organs, according to the U.S. Department of State. Interesting how the US memory holes these exculpatory stories so they don't show up except on the wayback machine.
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Jan 23, 2020 01:04
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Great job finding a story from 10 years ago. Glad that solves the case.
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Jan 23, 2020 01:08
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Pretty sure the leader of the US lied one time or something so you shouldn't believe that organization and their political agenda 100%, right?
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Jan 23, 2020 01:12
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Great job finding a story from 10 years ago. Glad that solves the case. Outside the usual state department/NED sponsored falun gong outlets has the GBS lynch mob provided any evidence other than shouting genocide over and over?
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Jan 23, 2020 01:17
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Outside the usual state department/NED sponsored falun gong outlets has the GBS lynch mob provided any evidence other than shouting genocide over and over? Evidence or evidence you'll accept? We already know there's no evidence you'll accept.
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Jan 23, 2020 01:37
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Wistful of Dollars posted:Evidence or evidence you'll accept? I asked for sources beyond the usual blood libel industrial complex of State Department spooks and Scientologists with Chinese Characteristics (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 23, 2020 01:48
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Outside the usual state department/NED sponsored falun gong outlets has the GBS lynch mob provided any evidence other than shouting genocide over and over? The official CCP numbers on organ transplants?
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Jan 23, 2020 01:59
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Outside the usual state department/NED sponsored falun gong outlets has the GBS lynch mob provided any evidence other than shouting genocide over and over? Yes there is a lot of evidence. I accept that you are willing to stand for killing members of a crazy cult, because in your worldview killing these people is good. But there is also a literal genocide of Uighur people going on, with organ harvesting and all that, and enough evidence in your favorite thread. And its hardly justifiable even by your hosed up standards. So all this is really not a defense to bring forward even if you are hell bent of defending a facist regime. I mean, this forum would be a lot loving better if we would get around to banning fascists and genocide deniers who support the CCP because of dogmatism of all reasons.
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Jan 23, 2020 02:33
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Ardennes posted:It obviously isn't. It was an honest, good-faith question asked because that wasn’t as obvious as you probably intended it to be.
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Jan 23, 2020 03:22
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Haramstufe Rot posted:
Pssssst, Ardennes. That's your cue!!!
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Jan 23, 2020 04:34
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Nucken Futz posted:Pssssst, Ardennes. I have been clear how I am looking at the situation in previous posts. I do think there is a potential for a real debate over sources but it doesn’t seem to be materializing. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 04:48
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Something something sitting on the genocidelines.
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Jan 23, 2020 04:53
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:I asked for sources beyond the usual blood libel industrial complex of State Department spooks and Scientologists with Chinese Characteristics Using the words blood libel and pairing it with genocide denial is really loving problematic dude. Like, holy gently caress.
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Jan 23, 2020 04:56
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Ardennes posted:
holy poo poo
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Jan 23, 2020 04:57
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Atopian posted:Something something sitting on the genocidelines. The other mods have told me that Caps Lock is now banned from the thread and will be no longer allowed to post. Caps Lock Broken is now thread banned. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 04:59
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Despera posted:"Why wont you spend more time and effort debating flat earthers?" isnt a take that will save you from your lack of a spine. The flat earthers here are more like the ancient internet just trolling flat earthers, except less funny. Flat earthers actually (I guess?) believe something and are consistent in it. It's really obvious if you've read this thread for a while that half the people you could call genocide deniers don't have any real belief they're debating besides picking a specific side. There are real issues worth talking about with media narratives that come up a lot that, instead of getting argued, just get ignored when it's inconvenient. People yelling "manufactured consent!" because they read the wiki on Chomsky or something then posting articles doing the same thing from their "side" that are even more obviously pushing a narrative. Flat earthers went from trolling to crazies buying into it. Sucks that SA is playing a part in the same thing with something that matters a lot. We're supposed to argue in good faith, this isn't good faith. There's so much of it it's just driving sane people away from the thread, Ardennes and other mods don't seem to care about that, I guess? Like look at what just happened, argue in bad faith all you want as long as it's not a "hot take" that gets too meta.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:03
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Ardennes posted:The other mods have told me they have told me that Caps Lock is now banned from the thread and will be no longer allowed to post. Thank you for taking appropriate action.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:06
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Ardennes posted:Btw you are assuming I am saying the premise must be false. It is clear that human rights abuses have taken place, but the arguement is the type and degree. https://twitter.com/arslan_hidayat/status/1219837663169208328 It's clear China is making every effort to farm organs on an industrial scale from their political prisoners such as the Uyghurs and those crazy Falun Gongers, but is it enough to be considered genocide? Let's discuss sources here.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:06
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Assuming that is an unaltered and properly translated source, it's becoming increasingly apparent that a whole lot of Chinese propaganda is contingent on the assumption that foreigners can't read Chinese.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:08
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Ardennes posted:The other mods have told me they have told me that Caps Lock is now banned from the thread and will be no longer allowed to post. Worthwhile. I like China, and seeing it 'defended' so badly that everyone's opinion of it is lowered is depressing.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:09
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Kill All Cops posted:https://twitter.com/arslan_hidayat/status/1219837663169208328 no no no you see GENOCIDE is when you kill people,
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Jan 23, 2020 05:13
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Ardennes posted:The other mods have told me they have told me that Caps Lock is now banned from the thread and will be no longer allowed to post. mod tyranny* * - this post is the opinion of greyjoybastard in his personal capacity and does not reflect either mod opinion in general or his opinion as an IK
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Jan 23, 2020 05:20
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Chinese is too difficult for tiny western minds to read so (CONCENTRATION CAMPS HERE) doesnt really need any degree of subtly
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Jan 23, 2020 05:26
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Fojar38 posted:Assuming that is an unaltered and properly translated source, it's becoming increasingly apparent that a whole lot of Chinese propaganda is contingent on the assumption that foreigners can't read Chinese. I just had my partner read it and the translation is accurate. At first she assumed it was a sign in a non-Chinese country that had been mistranslated.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:33
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The translation is correct. Official announcement of these channels dates back to 2016: http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-05/06/content_5070908.htm
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Jan 23, 2020 05:39
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Edit: beaten by a minute but my link is different at leastFojar38 posted:Assuming that is an unaltered and properly translated source, it's becoming increasingly apparent that a whole lot of Chinese propaganda is contingent on the assumption that foreigners can't read Chinese. It's absolutely a thing and has been for years. It's not hidden, here's literally the government website about the green channels. http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/ZCFB/201605/t20160513_37343.html However, it's hardly a smoking gun and people pretending it is are weakening their own arguments. It makes sense to make organ transplants not waste time to reduce issues. It does suggest there may be a suspiciously large amount of organs moving, but the signs and procedures alone are not proof and as people interested in seeking the truth we should for our own sakes ask for more evidence. Are there more green channels in Xianjiang? Is there more traffic coming from there than should otherwise be justified given the population? Are the lines in existence as a matter of policy but barely used? I don't believe some pro-CCP bullshit based off a single picture with no context and attached text/claims that may very well be made up, and I'm going to apply the same standards to things even that I otherwise generally believe are likely true.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:40
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GreyjoyBastard posted:mod tyranny* First day on the job, look what you've done
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Jan 23, 2020 05:42
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LimburgLimbo posted:Edit: beaten by a minute but my link is different at least oh gee cause i got all my evidence from that one twitter post gently caress
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Jan 23, 2020 05:51
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LimburgLimbo posted:However, it's hardly a smoking gun and people pretending it is are weakening their own arguments. It makes sense to make organ transplants not waste time to reduce issues. True, it's not a very good smoking gun to make accusations of genocide. It's just suspect that images are coming from western China, not highly populated areas where a fast lane for organs would be sensible. For example here's signage for an airport in Xinjiang: https://twitter.com/Angle8964/status/1101643602302783490 Then there are eyewitnesses like Envar Tohti who has first hand experience of organ harvesting in Xinjiang.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:58
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despera if you want to post actual evidence then do that, you just look like the shittest poo poo lib on the planet when you just keep on citing that evidence exists without actually citing any evidence. youve posted literally the exact same comment something like forty times in the last twenty four hours.
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Jan 23, 2020 06:00
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Sampatrick posted:despera if you want to post actual evidence then do that, you just look like the shittest poo poo lib on the planet when you just keep on citing that evidence exists without actually citing any evidence. youve posted literally the exact same comment something like forty times in the last twenty four hours. eat poo poo and google http://organharvestinvestigation.net/
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Jan 23, 2020 06:04
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Like pick a year between 2005-2020 just so i can get some of the evidence from that year
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Jan 23, 2020 06:06
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Despera posted:oh gee cause i got all my evidence from that one twitter post gently caress I've literally never talked to you. Not everything is about you. Kill All Cops posted:True, it's not a very good smoking gun to make accusations of genocide. It's just suspect that images are coming from western China, not highly populated areas where a fast lane for organs would be sensible. For example here's signage for an airport in Xinjiang: Yeah I know there's a whole lot more convincing sources, I'm just saying that generally posting insignificant/potentially deceiving stuff really just weakens arguments, because it makes it look as if people are grasping at straws, when there's really much better sources For some laypeople and dipshits on twitter inundating them with a constant level of stuff varying from specious to outright incorrect may change opinions or get those sweet sweet likes from people who already agree with you, but I don't think that SA is really a good platform for that and it distracts from the real interesting stuff in my mind. Edit: the above tweet also means nothing as well. Looks like one picture that says the same thing we've already talked about; there's special lanes to speed organ transplant. Adding other photos of one person with a cooler or what looks like an out of context photo of three doctors means literally nothing and makes you look like a sucker dude. There's just no benefit to using these tweets as evidence at all. LimburgLimbo fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 06:07
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Sampatrick posted:despera if you want to post actual evidence then do that, you just look like the shittest poo poo lib on the planet when you just keep on citing that evidence exists without actually citing any evidence. So I guess the term "liberal" is just a meaningless snarl word now?
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Jan 23, 2020 06:08
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If I post a peer-reviewed article that's only available as a PDF that you have to click a button to download are people going to read it or nah? Anyone who says "the evidence is poo poo" read the article here, then say that again. https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/gsp/vol12/iss1/6/ This is not the only thing but gently caress people have high (impossible) standards of evidence of a Very Bad Thing coming out of an authoritarian state that wants to hide what they're doing.
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Jan 23, 2020 06:10
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Tldr? A) don't @ me in this. B) for other people - life- sustaining organs are being provided in timelines and numbers that are incompatible with when and how many official death row inmates are being executed. Like, a heart is good for 7 days and no one officially got killed in the past 7 days but yet a heart is going in someone else. Where the gently caress they coming from??
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Jan 23, 2020 06:16
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You can say "Wheres the evidence" and I can answer "Where the gently caress to begin?" Blood test for prisoners? People literally on the phone asking for falun gong organs? then getting confirmations? Confessions from doctors who did the procedure?
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Jan 23, 2020 06:18
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LimburgLimbo posted:Edit: the above tweet also means nothing as well. Looks like one picture that says the same thing we've already talked about; there's special lanes to speed organ transplant. Adding other photos of one person with a cooler or what looks like an out of context photo of three doctors means literally nothing and makes you look like a sucker dude. There's just no benefit to using these tweets as evidence at all. If images of fast track lanes for human organ transport in western China's airports isn't convincing and in line with evidence of industrialized human organ trafficking from imprisoned Uyghurs, then what is? quote:He described how in October 2017 on a visit to Taipei, he was approached by a Taiwanese man whose brother had traveled to Tianjin, on the north-eastern coast of China, for a kidney transplant. “Since he was aware of Falun Gong situation, he asked his surgeon not to have an organ from a Falun Gong practitioner. His surgeon assured him that: now, all organs are coming from Xinjiang!”
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Jan 23, 2020 06:21
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Someone find me good evidence of the Holocaust from 1940. Or Armenia, Cambodia, whatever, Argentina during the events. Because all genocides are you know, just out there in the open.
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Jan 23, 2020 06:22
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Despera posted:eat poo poo and google okay so the reason why this is bad evidence is that a. the concentration camp allegations were disputed by everyone who investigated, including harry wu and the us state department; im sure youre familiar with harry wu and b. china has already acknowledged that there was widespread harvesting of organs from death row inmates in the 90s and 00s; this doesnt function as a criticism of chinese policy now because there has definitely been well documented changes in how china sources organs for transplants including collaborations with the red cross. but this is of course also not a great defense of china; just because in some areas, the method of transplant sourcing has changed does not mean that the same is true in all areas. the cold genocide paper is much better evidence for what youre trying to say.
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Jan 23, 2020 06:24
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