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Is there a writer out there that has a tendency of writing characters out of their usual character? Like writing Spider-Man as an idiot or Superman as an angry misanthrope? If not what is the most notable time this has happened?
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Jan 22, 2020 19:02
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| # ? May 25, 2024 20:47 |
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Byrne likes to have everyone be his way, regardless of any growth they've had. Bendis also has a tendency to go full Whedon and write everyone with the same voice, but not always.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:09
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I've heard that criticism leveled against Warren Ellis especially with Boom Boom in NEXTwave.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:13
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Retro Futurist posted:Byrne likes to have everyone be his way, regardless of any growth they've had. Bendis also has a tendency to go full Whedon and write everyone with the same voice, but not always. Something I hate about Bendis is that way he'll have two characters and their dialogue is "I went to the mall today!" "Really?" "Yes." "To the mall." "Yes, by myself." "The mall on your own?" "Yes." It's annoying. And, I've just found out Spider-Man killed his wife with radioactive sperm and Gwen Stacey had sex with Norman Osborn and gave birth to twins who hate Spider-Man. What (in your opinions.) is the stupidest thing that has happened to Spider-Man?
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Jan 22, 2020 19:14
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One time he lost his mask and went around with a bag on his head. Another time he made Franklin Richards buy him a hot dog while trying to comfort him over his uncle's death.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:17
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bessantj posted:And, I've just found out Spider-Man killed his wife with radioactive sperm and Gwen Stacey had sex with Norman Osborn and gave birth to twins who hate Spider-Man. What (in your opinions.) is the stupidest thing that has happened to Spider-Man? Either that or when his brain was taken over by Doctor Octopus.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:17
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Uthor posted:I've heard that criticism leveled against Warren Ellis especially with Boom Boom in NEXTwave. In his defense, nobody gave a poo poo about Boom Boom until Ellis made her more interesting than she'd ever been before.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:23
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bessantj posted:Something I hate about Bendis is that way he'll have two characters and their dialogue is This is just Seinfeld.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:28
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prefect posted:Either that or when his brain was taken over by Doctor Octopus. I've been going through the Marvel line and have been interested in getting to the Superior Spider-Man Aphrodite posted:This is just Seinfeld. I never watched that, but now you mention it I think someone has said that before (possibly you. If it is I apologise for forgetting.).
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Jan 22, 2020 19:35
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bessantj posted:I've been going through the Marvel line and have been interested in getting to the Superior Spider-Man From what I've seen, some people did some good work in that area, but there were even some good stories during Civil War.  bessantj posted:I never watched that, but now you mention it I think someone has said that before (possibly you. If it is I apologise for forgetting.). Seinfeld is still pretty good. Worth checking out.
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Jan 22, 2020 19:39
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Retro Futurist posted:Byrne likes to have everyone be his way, regardless of any growth they've had. Bendis also has a tendency to go full Whedon and write everyone with the same voice, but not always. How many times has the Thing been depressed about being an unlovable monster and then come to grips with it, only to become newly depressed the second a new writer takes over? How many times has Reed Richards realized that family is important and he can't put SCIENCE ahead of his loved ones, only to immediately do that again when a new writer takes over? Johnny Storm has realized it's time to grow up and take things seriously a dozen times, Hank and Janet have reconciled a dozen times, Batman/Wolverine/etc. have realized they need to stop pushing everyone away and let love into their heart 30-40 times apiece. John Byrne just takes that to an absurd level while claiming he's the only one who truly respects Kirby and the other greats. I feel like this is a distinct tic that is a different type of "out of character" than arguably Bendis making everyone do quips, or Warren Ellis deciding that any protagonist regardless of background is a hard cynical bastard who would stab a fuckbastard in their shiteyes for a tanker full of coffee and a packet of Silk Cuts, you wormy little shitgoblin.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:23
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Uthor posted:Another time he made Franklin Richards buy him a hot dog while trying to comfort him over his uncle's death. I kinda liked that whole issue.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:25
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prefect posted:From what I've seen, some people did some good work in that area, but there were even some good stories during Civil War. Oh, I'm interested in reading Civil War again. I liked the story about Ben Grimm sodding off to France. I just watched a video about Chuck Austen's X-Men run and having Angel's blood heal everyone but burn Nightcrawler sounds really weird.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:38
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bessantj posted:I just watched a video about Chuck Austen's X-Men run and having Angel's blood heal everyone but burn Nightcrawler sounds really weird. "What if Angel were a literal angel and Nightcrawler were a literal demon" is one of those things that irritates the living poo poo out of me.
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Jan 22, 2020 20:44
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prefect posted:"What if Angel were a literal angel and Nightcrawler were a literal demon" is one of those things that irritates the living poo poo out of me. Yes and it's a pity that they never went with Mystique being Nightcrawlers father. That sounds like an interesting idea. StaceyX seems to have been hard done by as well.
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Jan 22, 2020 21:10
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I find Morrison goes into technobabble a lot, whether that suits the characters he is writing or not.
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Jan 22, 2020 21:22
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Morrison and Ellis both have this thing in every comic where at some point a character is just going to talk a lot about the last thing the author’s been reading about.
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Jan 22, 2020 21:25
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Morrison can at least make it suit the character.
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Jan 22, 2020 21:41
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Back when Giffen and DeMatteis were writing Justice League, there were a lot of fan complaints about writing characters out of character for the sake of jokes -- like writing Captain Marvel (Shazam), who allegedly has the Wisdom of Solomon, as rather dim but relentlessly nice.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:24
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It's something that Tom King gets accused of a lot too (eg Booster Gold in his Batman run, a lot of the vignettes in Heroes in Crisis).
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Jan 22, 2020 22:29
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Selachian posted:Back when Giffen and DeMatteis were writing Justice League, there were a lot of fan complaints about writing characters out of character for the sake of jokes -- like writing Captain Marvel (Shazam), who allegedly has the Wisdom of Solomon, as rather dim but relentlessly nice. Maybe Solomon actually was a dumbass? Really meant for the women to chop the baby in half and only ran with it when one of them pointed out how loving dumb an idea it was.
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Jan 22, 2020 22:29
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Wisdom of Solomon has never meant super genius. Even golden age Marvel got tricked or was dense about stuff
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Jan 22, 2020 23:32
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bessantj posted:Something I hate about Bendis is that way he'll have two characters and their dialogue is Gotta be selling his marriage to the devil.
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Jan 23, 2020 01:20
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bessantj posted:And, I've just found out Spider-Man killed his wife with radioactive sperm and Gwen Stacey had sex with Norman Osborn and gave birth to twins who hate Spider-Man. What (in your opinions.) is the stupidest thing that has happened to Spider-Man? Somehow stumbling rear end-backwards into being the CEO of a major corporation, but then taking a middle manager salary so that when it all blew up around him he had nothing to fall back on and has to live with 2 roommates.
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Jan 23, 2020 01:42
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bessantj posted:Yes and it's a pity that they never went with Mystique being Nightcrawlers father. That sounds like an interesting idea. StaceyX seems to have been hard done by as well. There was a recent Claremont issue of Marvel Comics Presents (I think last year or the one before?) where Nightcrawler meets Destiny just before her death and she implies that this is canon, but the issue is out of continuity so it doesn't really count. But it's sort of nice to see this idea touch the page in any capacity!
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Jan 23, 2020 03:57
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ImpAtom posted:Wisdom of Solomon has never meant super genius. Even golden age Marvel got tricked or was dense about stuff Yeah, I think my favourite interpretation of it I've seen is just that Shazam has a strong sense of fairness and good conflict resolution skills, i.e. the thing Solomon was most famous for.
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Jan 23, 2020 04:01
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Selachian posted:Back when Giffen and DeMatteis were writing Justice League, there were a lot of fan complaints about writing characters out of character for the sake of jokes -- like writing Captain Marvel (Shazam), who allegedly has the Wisdom of Solomon, as rather dim but relentlessly nice. As much as I love Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League, they really did turn everyone into two-dimensional sitcom caricatures. Guy Gardner was a brain-damaged, right-wing, reactionary, violent rear end in a top hat, Flash was an immature, lecherous money-grubber, experienced military man Captain Atom became a wishy-washy washout as a leader, and Power Girl was a raging bitch all the time (due to DIET SODA). Come to think of it, Black Canary and Barda were also bitchy, fun-ruining scolds, like the disapproving wives and girlfriends in too many hacky comedies, and Fire was written as a bubble-headed bimbo most of the time. Giffen and DeMatteis made Blue Beetle and Booster Gold fan favorites (and my favorites), but they were even more immature, unprofessional, and just plain idiotic, to the point where they embezzled money from the team to start a Justice League-themed island casino that failed miserably. It's amazing they were allowed to stay in the League, considering how useless they usually were on missions. Booster was never supposed to be a genius -- a pretty-boy jock who was busted for gambling on his own games, who became a D-list celebrity to get rich and famous (and only stumbled into heroism along the way), but Beetle was literally a genius in the hands of other writers. He was a brilliant inventor who had his own company, although he was never good with money and lost it to his treacherous uncle (although now he has it again in Rebirth continuity, apparently). But when Booster was around, Beetle acted even dumber than his buddy. I think neither of them had ever had a close friend before, and the jock and the nerd brought out the goofiest sides of each other. Along the way, Beetle got put into a coma, got fat, got put into another coma, developed a heart condition, became smart and competent again (post-Giffen/DeMatteis), died, and now he's back and apparently still smart and competent. Booster still isn't the smartest guy, and everyone thinks he's a worthless wannabe, but at least he has been written as competent since 52.
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Jan 23, 2020 05:28
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Selachian posted:Back when Giffen and DeMatteis were writing Justice League, there were a lot of fan complaints about writing characters out of character for the sake of jokes -- like writing Captain Marvel (Shazam), who allegedly has the Wisdom of Solomon, as rather dim but relentlessly nice. Since Dennis O’Neil has written him Captain Marvel has Billy’s mind and he is not a separate personality.
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Jan 23, 2020 09:04
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bobkatt013 posted:Since Dennis O’Neil has written him Captain Marvel has Billy’s mind and he is not a separate personality. Even if he's not a separate personality, the wisdom of Solomon should still make him smarter. Like Miracleman.
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Jan 23, 2020 09:17
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Again, I still think Solomon was a dumbass with good PR. What are these women arguing about? a baby? chop it in half and they can share. Oh yeah, woman who doesn't want to kill a baby, you make some good points about not killing babies, gently caress it, you can have the baby.
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Jan 23, 2020 09:37
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Come on, Intelligence and Wisdom are different stats: Intelligence - measuring deductive reasoning, knowledge, memory, logic and rationality Wisdom - measuring self-awareness, common sense, restraint, perception and insight So yeah, the "fairness and conflict resolution skills" is probably a much better interpretation than "is smart"
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Jan 23, 2020 14:33
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:As much as I love Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League, they really did turn everyone into two-dimensional sitcom caricatures. Guy Gardner was a brain-damaged, right-wing, reactionary, violent rear end in a top hat, Flash was an immature, lecherous money-grubber, experienced military man Captain Atom became a wishy-washy washout as a leader, and Power Girl was a raging bitch all the time (due to DIET SODA). Come to think of it, Black Canary and Barda were also bitchy, fun-ruining scolds, like the disapproving wives and girlfriends in too many hacky comedies, and Fire was written as a bubble-headed bimbo most of the time. To be fair, "immature, lecherous money-grubber" wasn't far off from how Mike Baron was writing Wally post-Crisis. (In the first two-three issues of Wally's Flash, he demands free health insurance in exchange for running a heart across the country for a transplant patient, wins the lottery and buys a mansion, asks his girlfriend to move in with him, and when she asks for time to decide he dumps her and starts romancing a married woman instead.)
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Jan 23, 2020 15:09
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Selachian posted:To be fair, "immature, lecherous money-grubber" wasn't far off from how Mike Baron was writing Wally post-Crisis. (In the first two-three issues of Wally's Flash, he demands free health insurance in exchange for running a heart across the country for a transplant patient, wins the lottery and buys a mansion, asks his girlfriend to move in with him, and when she asks for time to decide he dumps her and starts romancing a married woman instead.) And Messner-Loebs continued that characterization of Wally being completely immature. And then told the story of him growing up across nearly sixty issues.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:11
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Random Stranger posted:And Messner-Loebs continued that characterization of Wally being completely immature. And then told the story of him growing up across nearly sixty issues. The Messner-Loebs Flash run is excellent-- this may be a hot take but I really really prefer it to Waid's even. Michael Fiffe did a nice retrospective of it at TCJ a while back.
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Jan 23, 2020 15:44
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Yvonmukluk posted:Gotta be selling his marriage to the devil. Why did he sell his marriage again, was it to save aunt May? TwoPair posted:Somehow stumbling rear end-backwards into being the CEO of a major corporation, but then taking a middle manager salary so that when it all blew up around him he had nothing to fall back on and has to live with 2 roommates. Was that the company Doc Ock set up?
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Jan 23, 2020 16:18
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bessantj posted:Why did he sell his marriage again, was it to save aunt May? Correct in both instances.
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Jan 23, 2020 16:32
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Endless Mike posted:Come on, Intelligence and Wisdom are different stats: I can't find the original tweet, but it went something like "Intelligence is knowing it's sometimes hard to to take the bag out of a garbage can because the bag creates a vacuum and it'd be easier to take it out if you drilled a hole in the bottom of the can. Wisdom is never, ever doing this."
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Jan 23, 2020 19:44
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How many Earths are there in DC now? I get the timeline kind of fuzzy, but I think it was "Infinite" > Crisis > 1 > Crisis > 3(?) > Crisis/Flashpoint > 52 > Convergence > Less than 52 > ???
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Jan 23, 2020 20:50
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CzarChasm posted:How many Earths are there in DC now? Currently it's an in-flux number. It's still supposed to be 52, but Scott Snyder's current run on Justice League (plus the Metal mini-event he did before) have introduced some stuff. FIRST OFF is the ~Darrrrk~ Multiverse, which mostly seemed to exist be a bunch of stupid grimdark worlds at first, but also has been put to use recently as basically an excuse to do a bunch of What If/Elseworld issues where they show what could have gone different (but worse) if [x] had gone down slightly differently in one of DC's prior events/classic storylines. Which is a nice use since a bunch of What If worlds are hardly ever worth revisiting and also because Grant Morrison went and defined almost every one of the 52 earths in his Multiversity book/event a few years back so there's not much room left for worlds like that when you could easily give a number to a world with a silly gimmick. The dark multiverse is basically infinite but it's an inherent wrong thing in the scheme of the multiverse so they just get destroyed by dark matter over time SECOND, as part of his JL, he's introduced this dark goddess of the multiverse lady Perpetua and if universes aren't evil enough and/or kowtowing to her will, she just blows them the hell up. That story's still in progress so it's unknown if they'll be restored once she's defeated. So tl;dr: less than 52 with a big ol' asterisk for dark gimmick earths.
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Jan 24, 2020 02:06
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Billy has the wisdom of a guy from thousands of years ago. It's probably just a lot of useless trivia today. If Doctor Sivana is ever trying to overcharge for a horse after time traveling to 937BC though watch the gently caress out.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:10
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