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V for Vegas posted:I would pay :5bux: a month to have access to CK3, EU5 and all their dlc as it comes out. Yeah :5bux: is about what I have paid for EU4 to date anyway. I would not mind paying :5bux: for EU5.  probably not.
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Jan 23, 2020 01:56
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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assuming the release schedule stays the same, maybe but capitalism says they'll release less and less to get more from your money
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Jan 23, 2020 07:43
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It would be good to solve the "many different dlcs, and every combination needs to be playable" issue, because that really causes a bunch of issues on the design side. Perhaps when you buy one you get everything released up to that point, with a discount if you own the immediately-previous dlc?
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Jan 23, 2020 07:50
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Jabor posted:It would be good to solve the "many different dlcs, and every combination needs to be playable" issue, because that really causes a bunch of issues on the design side. This is a problem they solved with EU3, swap things out for bundles that include everything before then eventually, depreciate the individual stuff from before then. That'd make them less money though.
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Jan 23, 2020 08:00
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Jabor posted:It would be good to solve the "many different dlcs, and every combination needs to be playable" issue, because that really causes a bunch of issues on the design side. It can solve this issue for Imperator but with EU4 they already have so much of expansions and people own them. So it would probably only work for new players or those who only own base game. reignonyourparade posted:This is a problem they solved with EU3, swap things out for bundles that include everything before then eventually, depreciate the individual stuff from before then. To this day I consider that previous model to be superior. Just one single best version of a game. And for new players, they have big meaty demos and packs. Apparently a lot of people are delusional about how they have a better game with the current model. And that exact model is used much more fairly and efficiently by the Creative Assembly of all people.
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Jan 23, 2020 09:44
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ilitarist posted:To this day I consider that previous model to be superior. Remember how they released EU3: Complete, and then decided "whoops actually it's not complete", brought out another DLC, and then released EU3: Chronicles as the ACTUAL complete edition? And then still sold EU3: Complete alongside it, resulting in people having to ask questions like "so which one of these do I buy"? Yep, that's truly the superior model.
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Jan 23, 2020 09:47
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Drone posted:Remember how they released EU3: Complete, and then decided "whoops actually it's not complete", brought out another DLC, and then released EU3: Chronicles as the ACTUAL complete edition? And then still sold EU3: Complete alongside it, resulting in people having to ask questions like "so which one of these do I buy"? It's a superior model so long as they never name anything "complete."
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Jan 23, 2020 09:57
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Drone posted:Remember how they released EU3: Complete, and then decided "whoops actually it's not complete", brought out another DLC, and then released EU3: Chronicles as the ACTUAL complete edition? And then still sold EU3: Complete alongside it, resulting in people having to ask questions like "so which one of these do I buy"? Yeah, it was much better when a user had a chance to buy a misnamed base game and had to buy 2 DLCs instead of buying a bundle. Now players need guides to make sense of DLCs, they buy Mongol Faces DLC thinking it would allow them to play as Mongols, or get American Dream DLC assuming that starting as USA would actually give them non-broken game and that devs didn't forget that date selection feature and that DLC exists, or get contect packs not realizing that those are just about models and music, or buy Ultimate Music Pack thinking that if they only want music they don't get new stuff from all those Content Packs, or buy every DLC and get e-books and everything listed above included.
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Jan 23, 2020 10:16
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yeah I would not be totally opposed to a cheap subscription model if it meant avoiding DLC confusion and just being able to jump in with the most recent, fully-featured version of the game. Especially if it was a complete package with access to all PDS strategy games. Probably bad for hardcore fans but it kind of makes sense for filthy casuals like me. Just pay for a month every so often when I get an itch to play. That's kind of what I do with uplay+ already.
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Jan 23, 2020 11:10
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fuf posted:yeah I would not be totally opposed to a cheap subscription model if it meant avoiding DLC confusion and just being able to jump in with the most recent, fully-featured version of the game. Especially if it was a complete package with access to all PDS strategy games. SLIPPERY SLOPE! I mean, we all must understand that the only thing that happens with this, is total poo poo. Less updates, because they don't have to anymore, you'll keep paying to keep your precious games.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:01
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I feel like they'd have gotten a better reaction if they replaced "here's a subscription that gets you all of EU4" with "here's a subscription that gets you all of Paradox" a la Origin Access / Gamepass / Uplay Plus. Of course the financials on that might not work at Paradox's scale... but at least right now they are putting most of their stuff (in basegame form) on other subscription-based services like Gamepass.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:09
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It's giving me moderate anxiety as I worry what will happen.  quote:Expansions and other DLC's, both existing and upcoming, will still be available for purchase as usual for those who prefer that. We will not remove any content from anyone or make future content exclusive to people with a subscription. Nobody will be forced to pay again for content they have already purchased, and you will get to choose if you want to subscribe to get future DLC or continue purchasing the items individually just as you’ve always done. The whole games as a disservice garbage is not appealing to me at all. Buying a month's full version to try out the game could very well be good for people but selfishly I kinda want it to semi-fail enough so EU5 won't be subscription only.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:33
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Subscriptions for the older games is cool and good. If it hits the new crop, that'll suck.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:39
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If it becomes another option to let new people onboard to the full game without staring :hundredbux: of DLC in the face, then it’ll be a good thing. If it slows down expansions, or replaces buy to own then it’ll be a bad thing. It is very odd that they are running this test on the heels of selling almost the entire line of DLC for $17.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:40
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Drone posted:I feel like they'd have gotten a better reaction if they replaced "here's a subscription that gets you all of EU4" with "here's a subscription that gets you all of Paradox" a la Origin Access / Gamepass / Uplay Plus. Now this would be interesting. A "grand strategy" subscription that gets me Stellaris, CK2, EU4 and HoI4 with all DLC? I'd be tempted. I wouldn't pay 10$/month or whatever for just EU4 or any other single game though, since by now I'd have spent way more than what I actually spent to buy the game+DLCs (waiting for deals etc) and they can't take it away from me (or better, I don't have to give up the game) if I get poor. And like plenty of people I binge play for a couple weeks, then forget all about it for 2-3 months, then play again... I would have to stop/renew my subscription every other month to save money and that's a huge hassle
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Jan 23, 2020 12:49
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Just devalue old DLC tbh. EU4 is extremely bloated and honestly all but the last 5 or so DLC's should just come free with the base game at this point. You can make arguments for stuff like Republics because all it really does is unlock a government type, but PDX have always tried to put in a core feature with flavor DLC so that those that aren't necessarily interested in the Ottomans or Russia have an incentive to purchase the DLC and that messes with that formula. A gamepass type situation for PDX games would honestly be fine but I doubt they could get away with not including the newest DLC's unless they go for a tiered subscription model and that's another can of worms right there. Basically I feel like Paradox could nip a lot of this in the bud by just making DLC's that are older than 2 years roll over and be free content.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:50
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TorakFade posted:Now this would be interesting. A "grand strategy" subscription that gets me Stellaris, CK2, EU4 and HoI4 with all DLC? I'd be tempted. I dunno, I don't see myself playing more than a single GSG in any given month. Might be cause I play a lot of other games. But usually those subscriptions are about giving you hundreds of games you can comfortably play or just a single one. Like you can get XBox pass for how much, $5/month? And Humble is $10-15? And XBox pass even includes some Paradox games.
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Jan 23, 2020 12:54
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ilitarist posted:I dunno, I don't see myself playing more than a single GSG in any given month. Might be cause I play a lot of other games. But usually those subscriptions are about giving you hundreds of games you can comfortably play or just a single one. Like you can get XBox pass for how much, $5/month? And Humble is $10-15? And XBox pass even includes some Paradox games. I often alternate between Imperator and EU4, with a dash of CK2 and Stellaris from time to time, and I always wanted to try HoI but never wanted to spend money for it since its premise is the least interesting to me, so I would be sort of the "best case scenario" here. I do have all DLC for EU4, most for CK2 and about half of what is out for Stellaris if for 10$/month I could play all those, plus maybe some other Paradox games, fully upgraded... well, why not? I wouldn't even bother with canceling/renewing because I'd play at least one or two of those games enough in a month to justify the expense but that's a pipe dream, I doubt 10/month would ever be enough for this kind of deal..
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Jan 23, 2020 13:00
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A subscription model is horrible and means you can coast along on shoddy DLCs due to sunk costs instead of needing each DLC to generate its own sales. And production schedules will demand things ship on time no matter the quality since people will have already paid for them.
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Jan 23, 2020 13:04
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Darkrenown posted:A subscription model is horrible and means you can coast along on shoddy DLCs due to sunk costs instead of needing each DLC to generate its own sales. And production schedules will demand things ship on time no matter the quality since people will have already paid for them. This is true, but a large reason for the bloat in EU4 as things stand is the need for each DLC to generate its own sales, which usually means some core feature is being bundled with content that does not have the same wide appeal. I'm categorically against GAAS, but the current PDX dlc model isn't great either, just less bad.
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Jan 23, 2020 13:20
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TorakFade posted:but that's a pipe dream, I doubt 10/month would ever be enough for this kind of deal.. I dunno, uplay+ is only a bit more than 10/month and you get access to their whole library of big budget games. 10/month for just the grand strategy games seems too much if anything. If it were like 5/month I wouldn't think twice.
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Jan 23, 2020 13:36
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subscriptions for anything that isn’t a MMO or blank as service is absolute scum and I won’t be buying any game that uses them
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Jan 23, 2020 13:42
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Good idea, next paradox grand strategy needs to be an always-online MMO.
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Jan 23, 2020 14:22
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Half-wit posted:Good idea, next paradox grand strategy needs to be an always-online MMO. It’s already here. It’s called Stellaris mobile.
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Jan 23, 2020 14:29
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I was thinking that Paradox has been making terrible decisions (and games on release) for a while now but launching a subscription service might actually be the thing that stops me buying anything else from them
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Jan 23, 2020 14:32
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ilitarist posted:I dunno, I don't see myself playing more than a single GSG in any given month. Might be cause I play a lot of other games. But usually those subscriptions are about giving you hundreds of games you can comfortably play or just a single one. Like you can get XBox pass for how much, $5/month? And Humble is $10-15? And XBox pass even includes some Paradox games. humble is the only decent sub service because they just give you game downloads/steam codes, its not something you have to keep paying for to play a game you got months ago because you just own that game and its not really comparable to something like game pass.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:15
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Also on the paradox is being destroyed by capitalism note, Stellaris's federation expansion appears to be doing nothing to actually change the way federations operate, just giving small percentage based bonuses you can choose from. The star trek mod literally does more. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-166-federation-q-a.1313491/
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Jan 23, 2020 17:27
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If you want to make EU4 accessible to new players maybe don't present them with a $200+ list of DLC when they open the store page, a list which is basically incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't already play the game. I agree that a better idea is just keeping the base version cost at whatever reasonable amount they need for profit, and then making all the DLC older than a year or two either free or costing a pittance. I haven't bought EU4 specifically because even when it says "ON SALE $7.50" on Steam, I felt like I was choosing between getting a lame base version or buying a bunch of DLC that I had no way to interpret even with a forum post guide trying to explain it, so I just passed. Decision paralysis at the store page, truly a feat of gaming. I not getting a loving subscription either. Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 17:27
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It's good that they're looking for ways to mitigate the sticker shock issue of their current model, but I'm skeptical that subscriptions will result in an improvement. Fingers crossed.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:53
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Chomp8645 posted:I haven't bought EU4 specifically because even when it says "ON SALE $7.50" on Steam, I felt like I was choosing between getting a lame base version or buying a bunch of DLC that I had no way to interpret even with a forum post guide trying to explain it, so I just passed. Decision paralysis at the store page, truly a feat of gaming. I not getting a loving subscription either. I'm in this same boat but with CK2. Even with the base game being free I feel like I wouldn't be getting the full experience without the zillion DLCs. (I'm glad that CK3 is coming so that I can get in on the ground floor) I don't know anything about Paradox's economic situation, but I really appreciate that they keep supporting and releasing new content for their games years after release. Whatever they need to do to keep doing that is fine by me. One thing that they could do is make cosmetic and immersion packs matter more. I'm almost never zoomed in enough to see the 3D unit models so I don't even care about them. Maybe show them in more places so I would actually care? I don't know what the sales figures are for those things but I assume I'm not the only one that basically ignores them.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:21
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Wow I had no idea that was a one piece reference.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:23
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dublish posted:It's good that they're looking for ways to mitigate the sticker shock issue of their current model, but I'm skeptical that subscriptions will result in an improvement. Fingers crossed. It's hard to form an opinion without knowing more about what the service will be. "Rent to own" would be great, also I'd be far more interested in one fee for the full grand strategy roster than for each individual game.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:26
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Pewdiepie posted:Wow I had no idea that was a one piece reference. here to help
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Jan 23, 2020 18:32
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its easy to form an opinion because their current dlc model is already pretty bad and they wouldnt be trying to switch to a sub model unless it would make them more money
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Jan 23, 2020 18:33
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Lol I just saw that Paradox is still going ahead with that mobile game that blew up in their faces, I figured they would have at least had the decency to quietly abandon the whole thing after its spectacular failure a few months ago. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-galaxy-command-available-now-on-mobile-devices.1308495/
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Jan 23, 2020 18:36
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Stux posted:its easy to form an opinion because their current dlc model is already pretty bad and they wouldnt be trying to switch to a sub model unless it would make them more money 1.) Leverage the functionality added to those older DLC when adding new functionality in new DLC, so systems do not get left behind or end up separated when they could be a part of a bigger whole 2.) Drive down the cost of buying into the game from scratch It would reduce some of the tedium that I am sure both designers and coders have to deal with in terms of "Oh cant do that, <whateverTheyAreWorkingOn> cannot be associated with <otherFeatureFrom3YearOldDLC>, so we have to do it this suboptimal way instead." I personally think the current model is okay because it lets me speak with my wallet. I did not like the direction EU4 was going, with "Innovativeness", Trade Company bullcrap, and other new mana bars or whatever, so I stopped buying DLC. I have no idea if others did the same or just got bored of the game, but then the EU4 team spent all of 2019 and will spent a part of 2020 doing an overhaul of some sort of a ton of game systems, including folding a few essential DLC elements into the basegame, which I think it is awesome because it will be addressing quite a few glaring issues that people had with the game.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:49
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well before capitalism completely kills paradox hopefully an employee dumps the source codes
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Jan 23, 2020 18:53
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Crazycryodude posted:Lol I just saw that Paradox is still going ahead with that mobile game that blew up in their faces, I figured they would have at least had the decency to quietly abandon the whole thing after its spectacular failure a few months ago. I must have missed something. How did it blow up in their faces? I remember some stolen art which is obviously not great but not that bad.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:56
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Raskolnikov38 posted:well before capitalism completely kills paradox hopefully an employee dumps the source codes I'm trying to imagine a non-capitalist centrally-planned gaming scene and all I'm coming up with is thousands of America's Army clones.
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Jan 23, 2020 19:00
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yikes! posted:I must have missed something. How did it blow up in their faces? I remember some stolen art which is obviously not great but not that bad. The big scandal was they were using blatantly stolen art assets from a bunch of different games including people with massive loving legal departments like Halo/Microsoft. More generally though the community seemed pretty confused at the idea of a lovely pay-to-win mobile game clone being an official Paradox product, there was some loud backlash on the forums/Reddits against it even existing at all and people were mostly just hoping it would quietly go away after the stolen art thing 
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Jan 23, 2020 19:01
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