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Bottom Liner posted:good point, I'll just number the actual slots for i/g and put a d10/12 in as well. either way I wasn't about to deal with 18 baggies you can also just stack the chits face down on the tile (or on the top of the mine)
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Jan 24, 2020 00:02
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Magnetic North posted:The Bohrer stuff honestly makes me not want to buy things from Capstone, as I don't know if I can encourage someone to enable such a piece of work. Hey, how about we just have Bezier steal his games instead of ones from Oink? Then everyone wins. I'm still waiting to find out who Roland Wright is
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Jan 24, 2020 00:25
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prokaryote posted:you can also just stack the chits face down on the tile (or on the top of the mine) look, my map is already looking like someone dumped the entire box on the table and walked away, i don't think i can handle this
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Jan 24, 2020 00:26
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canyoneer posted:I'm still waiting to find out who Roland Wright is
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Jan 24, 2020 00:28
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Magnetic North posted:The Bohrer stuff honestly makes me not want to buy things from Capstone, as I don't know if I can encourage someone to enable such a piece of work. Hey, how about we just have Bezier steal his games instead of ones from Oink? Then everyone wins. It's really weird to me that Capstone uses the Chinese pseudonym on the cover of their box, too. I went from, "Oh hey an Asian designer, maybe I should support them" to a deep rabbit hole of wtf.
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Jan 24, 2020 00:33
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they hand waved that on twitter by saying "its the terms of our contract" between that, their handling of the Irish Gauge board issue, and the nonsense statement* they issued with Maracaibo makes me unlikely to buy any of their games going forward * quote:Comment from the author and publisher: We would like to remind all players here that the power-consolidating efforts and greed of the European powers resulted in terrible costs to the people of the Caribbean during the period chat this game is set in. literally "yeah things were bad, but this is a whitewashed happy version of that setting"
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Jan 24, 2020 00:38
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GrandpaPants posted:It's really weird to me that Capstone uses the Chinese pseudonym on the cover of their box, too. I went from, "Oh hey an Asian designer, maybe I should support them" to a deep rabbit hole of wtf. They've said it was in the contract haven't they?
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Jan 24, 2020 00:39
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Doctor Spaceman posted:They've said it was in the contract haven't they? Yes they claimed they had to due to the contract they signed.
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Jan 24, 2020 00:39
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Do we really want to get into a discussion about questionable theming with the amount of people who like train games in this thread?
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Jan 24, 2020 00:59
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Game settings are not inherently problematic. Saying "this is a game about economics in the south in the 1800s but without slavery!" would be.
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Jan 24, 2020 01:07
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Maracaibo's theme is enough for me to not be interested in buying or even playing the game, but it's not enough for me to boycott the entire company. Licensing a game designed by a rude guy and publishing it under his chosen pseudonym is even less reason for me to boycott Capstone. On Maracaibo, I do understand Pfister's argument that it's basically the Pirates of the Caribbean setting, but even those movies deal with the impact of colonialism, albeit superficially. Bottom Liner posted:Game settings are not inherently problematic. Saying "this is a game about economics in the south in the 1800s but without slavery!" would be. Who do you think built the railroads in 1830?
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Jan 24, 2020 01:10
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So since gamers are resisting slavery tainted historical games, I've noticed more games using historical indigenous people. Which is fine, as long as you know that historical (and some present) indigenous people treated women like poo poo.
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Jan 24, 2020 01:10
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So you're mad at the messaging from the company or the fact that they took out the slavery?Mayveena posted:So since gamers are resisting slavery tainted historical games, I've noticed more games using historical indigenous people. Which is fine, as long as you know that historical (and some present) indigenous people treated women like poo poo. You just described every culture in history but I understand your point. Rad Valtar fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 01:12
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Rad Valtar posted:So you're mad at the messaging from the company or the fact that they took out the slavery? Exactly! It's all good but I want people to know that historical Euro games currently don't even address the misogyny of the period they are in. I have not seen one explanation or note addressing the issue.
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Jan 24, 2020 01:26
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Tekopo posted:He changed name to that when he moved to South America. He's a Nahtzee?
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Jan 24, 2020 01:31
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Rad Valtar posted:So you're mad at the messaging from the company or the fact that they took out the slavery? Those are the same issue. If they want to make a game in that setting fine, but handle it realistically and address it accordingly or change the setting if you aren't prepared to do so. It's a standard dry euro, it could be ported to literally any setting historical or fictional, why choose that one if you have to whitewash it?
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Jan 24, 2020 01:35
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Sloober posted:i actually got it to all fit in the base box, albeit it is sitting a tad high, but yes, i would love a nicer box built for it Yeah, FFO with Norwegians and the extra islands currently fits in one box. But there is another expansion planned ... a big box is welcome news :S
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Jan 24, 2020 01:35
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Bottom Liner posted:Those are the same issue. If they want to make a game in that setting fine, but handle it realistically and address it accordingly or change the setting if you aren't prepared to do so. It's a standard dry euro, it could be ported to literally any setting historical or fictional, why choose that one if you have to whitewash it? Im fine with the criticism of the way they handled it but I find it weird to target a specific game for it when so many do. Where is the outrage for train stock simulator where you are a capitalist pig becoming rich off the back of slave labor? Do they acknowledge that you are a horrible person taking advantage of minorities?
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Jan 24, 2020 01:59
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Rad Valtar posted:Im fine with the criticism of the way they handled it but I find it weird to target a specific game for it when so many do. Where is the outrage for train stock simulator where you are a capitalist pig becoming rich off the back of slave labor? Do they acknowledge that you are a horrible person taking advantage of minorities? Yep. Historical games are simply nasty. The Caribbean makes much more sense given the circular nature of Maracaibo. Now he could have made it sci fi I guess but he's not known for sci fi games.
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Jan 24, 2020 02:00
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Rad Valtar posted:Im fine with the criticism of the way they handled it but I find it weird to target a specific game for it when so many do. Where is the outrage for train stock simulator where you are a capitalist pig becoming rich off the back of slave labor? Do they acknowledge that you are a horrible person taking advantage of minorities? “So many games handle history poorly” is not a (good) defense. And again, you’re ignoring the crux of my point. It’s not that the game is set in colonialism, it’s that the designer/publisher went out of their way to say “but this is a bright sunny version of history without that icky stuff” that is weird and problematic. And to add to that, I was listing the myriad of questionable things Capstone has done recently that has turned me off from them as a company, this included. That isn’t outrage, that’s just noticing a trend in their decision making as a company. The context of Pfister is also key to the Maracaibo discussion too, yeah \/ Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 02:33
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pospysyl posted:On Maracaibo, I do understand Pfister's argument that it's basically the Pirates of the Caribbean setting, but even those movies deal with the impact of colonialism, albeit superficially. Pfister has a history of ignoring colonialism. People called him out on it with Mombasa and his response was completely clueless and dismissive.
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Jan 24, 2020 02:34
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Bottom Liner posted:“So many games handle history poorly” is not a (good) defense. And again, you’re ignoring the crux of my point. It’s not that the game is set in colonialism, it’s that the designer/publisher went out of their way to say “but this is a bright sunny version of history without that icky stuff” that is weird and problematic. And to add to that, I was listing the myriad of questionable things Capstone has done recently that has turned me off from them as a company, this included. That isn’t outrage, that’s just noticing a trend in their decision making as a company. I don’t want you to think I’m attacking you, I just think it’s good to have these discussions.
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Jan 24, 2020 02:51
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I don't think whataboutism is adding much to the discussion though, especially with no specific examples to point to. No one here is denying that most historical games include some level of troubling history with racism, slavery, treatment of women, etc.
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Jan 24, 2020 02:57
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CaptainRightful posted:Pfister has a history of ignoring colonialism. People called him out on it with Mombasa and his response was completely clueless and dismissive. I absolutely agree! It's partly why I don't own any of his games. I just don't feel strongly enough about it to boycott his associates as well.
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Jan 24, 2020 03:36
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RACE FOR AFRICA
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Jan 24, 2020 03:55
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Going to play my first game of Twilight Struggle tonight. This game has been one of my dream purchases since, well, 2005. I love the design notes at the end of the rule book: So let us once more pound our shoes, grab the hotline, and stand watch in Berlin. The Cold War is over, but the game has just begun. Although it is preceded by a weird bit of post-9/11 American panic the design notes are rad. I think I'm really going to enjoy this game. Not least because Hidden Agenda (1988 video game) has sucked hours from my life. Bring on the baby boomer's era! I could use some expertise, anything I should know before I play to help my flatmate and I have an enjoyable experience?
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Jan 24, 2020 05:08
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I would recommend looking through the cards alongside your opponent beforehand (and refresh your memory before the eras you add them), and discuss them a bit. There are a bunch of cards that make up the strategic landscape when both players are aware they exist, but could also just screw over one player in a very unenjoyable way if you go in blind and get wrecked by them.
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Jan 24, 2020 05:22
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Lampsacus posted:Going to play my first game of Twilight Struggle tonight. This game has been one of my dream purchases since, well, 2005. I love the design notes at the end of the rule book: The biggest gotcha is that if the DEFCON track is at 2 (which it often will be), any events that can lower DEFCON--even by something as innocuous as saying "opponent can perform Ops", because they can launch a coup in a battleground to drop DEFCON--will likely lose the game instantly. Even if your opponent makes the choice to coup, if it's a card you played you're the one that eats the loss. Which means if you have one of your opponent's events that drops DEFCON / allows a coup it's super toxic and needs to be handled very carefully. Very few things actually allow you to discard cards so the usual ways to dispose of DEFCON suicide cards are to play them on the space track or slip them in at DEFCON 3 (frequently the headline phase, although this can be dangerous if both players try to do it!) The USSR player has to worry about this a lot more than the U.S. player, which is part of the reason it's considered harder to learn at first.
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Jan 24, 2020 05:22
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Kazzah fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Jan 24, 2020 |
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Jan 24, 2020 05:27
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It’s good to understand that a DEFCON suicide card (a card that will cause the game to end from hitting DEFCON 1) isn’t just an enemy card that causes the DEFCON to increase. Any card that gives your opponent OPs or a coup can be used to coup a battleground, or any card that triggers a random event has the potential to trigger a DEFCON raising card. Also be aware that during headlines, your opponent may be playing a card that lowers the DEFCON, so you doing the same, even with the DEFCON at 3, is still potential suicide. Early War have a bunch of cards that can catch you out on your first playthrough. Either have a quick practice round (you’ll most likely see all the cards the first time around), or fish these cards out, and have both you and your opponent understand them. Most of them aren’t that big a deal, but when you’re at the start of the game, it can feel like a single event is undoing your last couple of turns if you don’t know about them. So, don't avoid going into France or any of the war targets just because these cards exist, but understand the risks of doing so (and how you can mitigate war cards by taking neighbouring countries for example). Blockade US – Japan Mutual Defense Pact India – Pakistan War Korean War Arab - Israeli War De Gaulle Leads France Truman Doctrine Defectors War Games (Late War)
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Jan 24, 2020 05:49
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I certainly vividly remember my second game of Twilight Struggle, in which I as the US earned myself a strong position in Romania.
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Jan 24, 2020 05:53
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Alright, so at this stage I'm heavily considering buying Marvel Champions, as a couple of you mentioned it and a friend of mine likes it a lot. BUT if/when I DO get it, what extra packs should I get, too? Since apparently the main issue is that it doesn't habe as much content as Legendary Encounters: Alien out of the box. So if I DO get MC, I'm considering potentially buying an insert and a couple of heroes+villians, to flesh it out a bit
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Jan 24, 2020 06:49
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Doesn’t need an insert at all. Just get the Goblin pack if you can to start since it adds more missions for the 4 heroes the base game comes with. Then get the new hero packs if you want.
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Jan 24, 2020 06:59
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I mean, they’re all worth getting but the Goblin pack is the most vital in terms of adding more to the game. Hero wise, you have 5 heroes in the core that can be mixed and matched with the four different aspects so you’d have a while to play before that really got stale.
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Jan 24, 2020 07:23
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One important thing to remember about Twilight Struggle is that a lot of your own asterisked events are usually better being played as ops. Theres quite a few cards that are unconditionally good for you, and if you play it for ops, you keep it in the card pool and have a chance of making your opponent trigger it instead, so you get both the ops AND the event. Obviously this isnt always true and it depends on the board state etc etc but its something to keep in mind, since it was a trap I fell into hard when I played.
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Jan 24, 2020 07:34
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Alright cool, I'm glad to hear it! I might need to dive into this after all.Bottom Liner posted:Doesn’t need an insert at all. Just quickly though, is the insert provided with the game suited to house sleeved cards? I should've mentioned that before, since I 100% plan on sleeving them, so if it doesn't fit them in well, I guess I may need to get an insert - or possibly a bunch of different coloured deck boxes? (To then store in the game box, I mean. An insert would probably be best though, I guess)
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Jan 24, 2020 07:42
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Checked BGG and people say it's tight with sleeves. I'd just grab a couple of cheap deck boxes or crayon boxes instead of an expensive insert.
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Jan 24, 2020 07:52
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Works great with my KMC sleeves. The FFG sleeves are slightly taller, so would probably hit the slopes in the bottom, but most sleeves should fit perfectly in the box.
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Jan 24, 2020 10:01
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Rad Valtar posted:Im fine with the criticism of the way they handled it but I find it weird to target a specific game for it when so many do. Where is the outrage for train stock simulator where you are a capitalist pig becoming rich off the back of slave labor? Do they acknowledge that you are a horrible person taking advantage of minorities? No train game sells itself on its theme even if the theme informs its design. But too many Euro games remain distant from their historical setting while selling it as a feature. To use a real world example, I live in a historical town that was one of the centers of slave trade. The town decided to move its slave auction block from its historical street location to a museum. A local business sued the town to stop the movement saying that removing the block would reduce foot traffic and hurt local businesses. No matter how good the dude's intention is at the end of the day he's profiting off a history of slavery. The propensity for board games to use the real world to sell their utterly abstract concepts is honestly baffling to me because no other medium really does this. The board game industry is largely bereft of original concepts and I don't now if publishers think their market is too afraid to buy something removed from the real world or if the industry is just too cheap to hire designers who can come up with original concepts. Once again I have to hand it to loving Root for taking an original read on an awful time in history: we all know what the factions stand for but being funny animals completely takes the edge off. Like how the gently caress do you look at Settlers of Catan, the game that basically catapulted the industry to a global phenomena, and say "what if this was actually Settlers of Northern Africa????"
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Jan 24, 2020 11:53
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Rad Valtar posted:Im fine with the criticism of the way they handled it but I find it weird to target a specific game for it when so many do. Where is the outrage for train stock simulator where you are a capitalist pig becoming rich off the back of slave labor? Do they acknowledge that you are a horrible person taking advantage of minorities? You have two types of people playing train games: the ones who like pretending to be capitalist pigs and the ones who like to look at it afterwards and say “yep, this is why we can’t have nice things.”
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Jan 24, 2020 13:13
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