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I'll have to check my playtime when I get home, I'm powering through the story in FFXIV to get to Heavensward and I think I've only pulled in about 30 hours so far, including a certain amount of loving about in the gold saucer and doing some side quests. It goes by quick if you just teleport everywhere and skim right over the text in what are very obviously filler quests.
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Zaphod42 posted:The moment-to-moment gameplay, the core, that has always been the weak part. And unfortunately, they're not the people playing mmos, at least not currently. In wow you could see this on pvp servers and currently in warmode: people lose their poo poo when the engaging type of combat gameplay (pvp) encroaches onto the routine of bear rear end farming. They do everything they can to trivially get rid of the pvp (running away, zerging, taking refuge near guards NPCs) until the disruption of challenging gameplay goes away and they can resume their repetitive bear rear end farming routine. Wow players are literally allergic to any form of challenge contaminating the bear rear end farming. The people who aren't stopped playing wow a long time ago and are probably not even on blizzards radar anymore.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:25
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Any good action MMO will probably have to brand itself as persistent open world or similar, with the term MMO being very studiously avoided. I've tried advancing similar ideas to MMO fans I know and every one of them was fully wed to the idea that MMO = basically the WoW formula, and any funny talk about changing that very specific formula was met with sullen opposition at every step, like it's some unthinkable impossibility. Basically, the average MMO player is like an old man grumbling over his pint of bitter in his lovely, smoky old man pub with peeling wallpaper that hasn't been redone since the early 90s. They know what they like and woe betide anyone who tries to change it. It's a catch 22; MMOs are ripe for massive change, especially in an age where you can play 100 player battle royale shooters on your smartphone, but the term is completely tainted by that lack of change, and so too is the kind of audience you can hope to attract without some seriously good marketing. [edit] I have a whole effortpost in me about it, but the closest we've got is probably GTA Online. Large overworld with missions/quests, grinding, PvE encounters, organisations to join and level up in, vast amounts of gear to shop for, plus various missions and PvP modes that are instanced away from the main lobby. It isn't trying to be an MMO, but there are enough elements there that Rockstar have hammered into shape over the years for another studio to take inspiration from. Doctor_Fruitbat fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 16:41
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Any good action MMO will probably have to brand itself as persistent open world or similar, with the term MMO being very studiously avoided. I've tried advancing similar ideas to MMO fans I know and every one of them was fully wed to the idea that MMO = basically the WoW formula, and any funny talk about changing that very specific formula was met with sullen opposition at every step, like it's some unthinkable impossibility. Basically, the average MMO player is like an old man grumbling over his pint of bitter in his lovely, smoky old man pub with peeling wallpaper that hasn't been redone since the early 90s. They know what they like and woe betide anyone who tries to change it. I've been doing the same thing this week, asking MMO players about the format, and got the exact same response. I'm beginning to think you're right in that the term MMORPG is just too firmly tied to the format of the past There are a butt load of questions about the future, especially over target audience. If you're talking casual or "hardcore" we are looking at very different games, but I think there's something new for both parties
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Jan 21, 2020 17:14
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Any good action MMO will probably have to brand itself as persistent open world or similar, with the term MMO being very studiously avoided. I've tried advancing similar ideas to MMO fans I know and every one of them was fully wed to the idea that MMO = basically the WoW formula, and any funny talk about changing that very specific formula was met with sullen opposition at every step, like it's some unthinkable impossibility. Basically, the average MMO player is like an old man grumbling over his pint of bitter in his lovely, smoky old man pub with peeling wallpaper that hasn't been redone since the early 90s. They know what they like and woe betide anyone who tries to change it. Why hasn't some GTA type of MMO even been considered. I haven't played GTA online because I haven't played much of anything last 6 years or so. Your comment about mobile gaming made me also think why hasn't ANYONE worthwhile come up with new innovative ideas within a fully realized new MMO. Imagine an MMO came out with some type of also crossplatform mobile gameplay aspect, like being able to grind up crafting on phone for your character obviously not access the game itself. And gently caress even innovative ideas how about some rehashed poo poo in a new game that's fun. It just baffles me that with the money to be made from a good new MMO there hasn't been more dedicated attempts to create something innovative but true to the genre. Going to play FFXIV for time being, friends I used to play MMOs with are getting Temtem today I'll see what they say about that as well. The 2v2 PvP pokemon battle aspect seems like it could have depth and be fun. knox fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 19:41
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There was APB which was only a semi-MMO but holy poo poo was that fun to play. Unfortunately the developers spent a stupid amount for what they'd produced (100 million or something silly) so it failed and they had to sell it to some I think Chinese company that made it F2P. The best aspect was mics were open when you were close to someone so when you'd disable a crook and run over to cuff them you'd hear them getting pissed off over their mic. I've always wanted someone else to take a crack at that kind of game (I'd prefer an FPS though).
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Jan 21, 2020 19:44
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Zlodo posted:And unfortunately, they're not the people playing mmos, at least not currently. As someone who almost exclusively played pvp server's on MMO's since a young age I sorta want to reply to this. MMO PvP is pretty awful and as soon as enough time has passed for socks to fill with poo, there will be such a gear disparity between the ganker and the poor guys just trying to farm the mandatory bear asses so they can get anywhere close to being able to get the gear to actually fight the guy who is trying to gank them. When everyone is still equal in gear, like the first week or two of a open pvp server, it's pretty great, but when someone joins a month, two months, a year after someone else who is already sitting firmly upon the top of his poop sock mountain, it just ain't fair and I don't blame the guys who want to avoid or run away from the guy who takes 5% damage from their attacks and hits them back for 80% while stun locking them. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Jan 22, 2020 |
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Jan 22, 2020 10:41
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Groovelord Neato posted:There was APB which was only a semi-MMO but holy poo poo was that fun to play. Unfortunately the developers spent a stupid amount for what they'd produced (100 million or something silly) so it failed and they had to sell it to some I think Chinese company that made it F2P. APB was horribly janky but the things you could do to gently caress with people was amazing, along with the character designer. The fact that cops could use LTL guns and if they did they could arrest criminals as an extra “gently caress you” was fantastic.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:44
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jokes posted:The fact that cops could use LTL guns and if they did they could arrest criminals as an extra “gently caress you” was fantastic. Yeah I only ran less-than-lethal and like I said people screaming over mic as you arrested them ruled. The cars handled like boats but once you got used to it was rad as gently caress chasing down robbers.
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Jan 22, 2020 17:57
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jokes posted:APB was horribly janky but the things you could do to gently caress with people was amazing, along with the character designer. The fact that cops could use LTL guns and if they did they could arrest criminals as an extra “gently caress you” was fantastic. Yeah, the driving controls were always really lovely, but it had the best character creator ever, and you could have a lot of fun driving around with your buddies. APB had so much potential but once you actually got your character customized and got in-game it was too repetitive and the shooting felt pretty bad. Groovelord Neato posted:There was APB which was only a semi-MMO but holy poo poo was that fun to play. Unfortunately the developers spent a stupid amount for what they'd produced (100 million or something silly) so it failed and they had to sell it to some I think Chinese company that made it F2P. But its unfortunate, if they hadn't wasted so much money and had to sell it, it could have been something. GTA Online obviously makes $bajillions for R* and that could easily sustain an MMO. RDR Online shows that R* likes that sweet income. But R* also R*'s everything so both GTA Online and Red Dead Online are flawed just as much as APB. Its wild seeing the development of GTAO over the years. They spent like 2 years going all-in on heist missions that played like single player but online co-op. And... everybody kinda hated them? They were really stilted and repetitive and it was annoying to have to find 3 people to play with for like 2 hours and if someone dropped it'd cause issues. Then R* realized they were missing the whole point, and spent like 2 years going all-in on random events in the overworld that caused you to run into other players but also ended after 20 minutes so it wasn't a huge commitment. Big improvement! But then they found the best way to monetize that was to require you to buy some big investment in order to get the new event missions. So then we got apartments, high-rise apartments, offices, bars, drug warehouses, gun bunkers, yachts, night clubs, and more. Each one costing over $1,000,000 in-game dollars, but then unlocking a new series of missions which were somewhat lucrative. (Still, it'd take hours to pay back that initial $1,000,000 investment, which was the point) The new missions were fun and were better designed to take place in the overworld, but by the time you'd earned back your investment you were probably pretty sick of them again. Then we hit late-stage GTAO where R* realizes the real money is just catering to whales. So then we get a bunch of golden airplanes, motorcycles with jetpacks on them, bigger tanks and armored cars, and finally the ability to spend a million dollars to fire a loving orbital death laser at other players. Its a weird ride of game development driven purely by greed.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:00
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:As someone who almost exclusively played pvp server's on MMO's since a young age I sorta want to reply to this. a big part of this is the way wow, and then all its clones, implemented pvp, IMO. which is to say "incredibly stupidly and lazily". factions are dumb as all gently caress, and wow succeded despite them not because of them. letting people kill other players repeatedly for absolutely no repercussion just because they're bored is a problem and makes pve servers a requirement. in games like lineage, eve-o, probably some newer asian ones i haven't played, unless you specifically go to pvp open zones that are clearly marked that way, just hitting a player will have a penalty, and killing a player will cause some pretty nasty temporary drawbacks. despite this, people pvp in these games. eve-o is probably an outlier here since it's primarily considered a pvp game, but i've played a fair bit of lineage 2 too, which was by all accounts a classic "grind on field/in dungeon" pve mmo, just with the caveat that people have the ability to kill you any time outside towns. despite this, i've gotten ganked by someone who outgeared and/or outleveled me only a couple times in my hundreds of hours of play, and the reason is super simple: it's just not worth the bother. killing people roughly your own level can be worth it because they're killing poo poo on your grind spot and slowing you down. killing someone a couple levels or even just 1 gear grade lower than you is just a big ol fuckin waste of time, because you've gained nothing but some karma score which you'll have to grind down, and if you get caught while your name is red, anyone can kill you without even flagging for pvp so you can't fight back without getting even more karma.
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Jan 22, 2020 18:50
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Also wow recently changed the explicit pvp modes (not overworld) to normalize stats and that was a great move IMO But it kinda reveals the exact problem y'all are talking about EVE does have a lot of solutions to that problem, but it has its own issues too
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Jan 22, 2020 19:26
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Zaphod42 posted:Its a weird ride of game development driven purely by greed. Yeah, the laser is insane. Huge, vast sums of money to nuke someone from orbit, who then respawns none the worse for wear. GTA is such an anomaly. The basic concept works just fine; in a single PvP lobby you can have people working through story missions for heists, grinding out stock for various business ventures, taking part in impromptu tasks, races and challenges set by either the game or the players themselves, and any amount of freemode fuckery and pissing around, with NPCs and enemies all being spawned in dynamically and usually being pretty much perfectly synced across all game clients, despite an ageing network infrastructure that takes three millennia to move you to another lobby. And god, that freemode fuckery is what I live for. I've had so many great times in that game, logging in with 20 - 30 other players and rolling a squadron of tanks into town, or all holding up the same shopkeeper at the same time, or shoving each other off cliffs and ragdolling to our deaths. That's what MMOs are missing, for me. That fuckaround factor, the ability to just do the wildest spontaneous nonsense possible, with a complex and interesting map that enables it. But the game has evolved over time, and they've never quite managed to square all of the circles they've created. The game penalises 'bad sports', including making them pay the insurance costs for destroying other players' vehicles, but then offers those same players a paltry handout to go and gently caress with people who are just trying to grind out stock for their businesses, as if having to get back to base with NPCs on your tail the whole time is somehow improved by passive aggressively throwing other players into the mix. Races, deathmatches and other competitive modes are like a whole other game entirely, with a robust if somewhat finicky map creator allowing for some amazingly inventive game modes and endless content, but the payouts are crap, the whole thing is totally unstructured with no achievements or unique rewards, and as such you'll be lucky to get many if any other players in at all. They've experimented a lot, and some ideas work better than others - the original and incredibly restrictive heists have given way to the casino heist, which is much more forgiving in letting the players cover for their own fuckups and work out their own strategies instead of instantly failing the mission if you don't take the scripted path, and Arena Wars is a solid attempt at making a properly structured vehicle combat mode with an actual place in the world, rather than a side mode you fire up from a menu. It'll be interesting to see how they tie it all together in the next game, although I'm not looking forward to them aggressively funnelling you towards the microtransactions from the get go instead of a couple of years down the line.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:03
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Now I want first person shooter APB real bad.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:13
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:And god, that freemode fuckery is what I live for. I've had so many great times in that game, logging in with 20 - 30 other players and rolling a squadron of tanks into town, or all holding up the same shopkeeper at the same time, or shoving each other off cliffs and ragdolling to our deaths. That's what MMOs are missing, for me. That fuckaround factor, the ability to just do the wildest spontaneous nonsense possible, with a complex and interesting map that enables it. Yeah, I strong agree with this. Mmos are all about loving around to me. Riding your horse around town, meeting up with friends, just having that virtual presence is fun stuff. I've done the same with my cousin, just getting drunk and then standing on top of a building and slapping each other off it or whatever dumb things we come up with.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:18
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A shame so many people missed the no horse rules of age of wushu
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Jan 23, 2020 10:10
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It was fun, for a bit
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Jan 23, 2020 11:49
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This thread is such a good read, I'm really liking the chat about what did/didn't work for GTA online I played it back when the heists were the only thing going for it and they put me right off it (that and my friends had done them already, had $10,000,000 each and I was a worthless party member thanks to it) However the newer stuff, like the casino heist, really did get me interested. If it wasn't such a cash crab and the grind wasn't so poo poo, I'd be sold The nail on the head is the fact the GTA world feels like a real place, the NPCs are all doing poo poo, the police respond to you etc. It really adds to the immersion To go back a topic of conversation; what's thread's opinion on material gathering classes/jobs? As in fishers/miners etc I'm in two minds about the whole thing, since on one hand it's god drat hard to make mining fun and rewarding for 1000+ hours (EVE I'm looking at you) but on the other hand, there's always people who want to do it, no matter how masochistic the job might be, especially if it fills a niche in some way Do you just make the process more indepth? Make it skill based? Or take it away entirely, so a "miner" is just managing workers like an RTS and the "fun" is management? Bare in mind, I'm thinking about a game where your role is gathering/crafting, not combat. As discussed before, the fisherdude paying players to protect him while he catches gigaeels or something Any games that did gathering jobs well or badly? I'm interested
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Jan 23, 2020 13:01
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Watch them add something stupid like minesweeper for mining, for some reason Wushu had a tile-matching minigame https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6QUUUz9fd8 Jackard fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 13:39
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SWG was just about it for crafting and gathering I think. Gathering minerals and poo poo could be done by hand and active play would yield rewards for repositioning (though these should have been larger). There were also extraction buildings that could be placed for full time collection but require building slots. Finally some materials could only be gathered by hunters. Materials themselves had a ton of different varients with different stats that would affect your build. Different items looked at different stats for different reasons. You could also try to push them a bit further with experimentation. For actual construction you could do it by hand or make a blueprint and feed it and the resources to a factory and let it run. Like, this is just about perfect. You could perhaps do a few additional things like resource silos and further automation and certainly the manual gathering vs active gathering vs building gathering could use a bit of a rebalance to discourage afk manual gathering but it was good and should come back.
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Jan 23, 2020 13:47
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kaffo posted:To go back a topic of conversation; what's thread's opinion on material gathering classes/jobs? As in fishers/miners etc I wrote a whooooole lot about this subject a page or two ago. I think it has massive potential to add to roleplaying and player interaction if done right, but most mmos half-rear end it and make crafting purely a time sink, which means it isn't really fun in itself. The miners are too disconnected from the rest of the game. Make people party warriors up with miners to defend them while mining and bam, now you got a stew going, baby!
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Jan 23, 2020 17:37
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Zaphod42 posted:I wrote a whooooole lot about this subject a page or two ago. Is he equipping his correct rod/bait/sparkler setup for eels? Or is he standing there alt tabbed out watching YouTube? Where's the fun for this guy while the warriors are defending his rear end? Or should it be not-fun?
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Jan 23, 2020 17:44
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Fishing is easy, there's a million fishing games with interesting mechanics for MMOs to copy. Mining would suit some sort of rhythm mechanic, maybe even cook up some sweet old timey miner songs for players to mine along to (I'm thinking in the style of We All Lift Together from Warframe) with extra rewards for doing well. The idea that mining and crafting is inherently dull is one of the most poisonous ideas that has been allowed to take root in MMOs, and as usual the answer is that MMO fans are the last people who should be allowed within ten miles of developing one.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:49
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kaffo posted:Yeah, it was your posts which got me thinking about it. I'm talking real gritty here though, while those guys are fighting, is your fisher dude doing a tile matching game like above? Yeah that's the tough question. Developing unique mechanics would make it the most compelling (mining is harder, but its pretty easy to imagine an involved and fun fishing minigame at least. You could probably come up with something for mining using fishing as a base?) Tile matching would be the bare minimum but its pretty weak IMO. FFXIV has you do this weird risk/reward thing where you have different buttons you can push and you need to fill up a bar but you're trying to get another number as high as possible before you fill the bar, but if you run out of time you fail. Its interesting but doesn't feel very exciting. Alt tabbed watching youtube would be a failure. And I don't think it should be not-fun. In most MMOs the people who do economy do it even though it isn't fun in order to get ahead in the economy, which is itself rewarding, but if the player is spending hours doing it, then designers should try to make it a fun activity. The more crafting types you have the more "minigames" you'd have to develop, so maybe keeping it limited to just a couple, maybe even JUST fishing as crazy as that sounds, maybe something like that is the solution. Then the fishing game could be decently compelling. Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Fishing is easy, there's a million fishing games with interesting mechanics for MMOs to copy. Mining would suit some sort of rhythm mechanic, maybe even cook up some sweet old timey miner songs for players to mine along to (I'm thinking in the style of We All Lift Together from Warframe) with extra rewards for doing well. Oh wow that's brilliant. Yeah have mining be like DDR. You have to play DDR along with some chanty, like you're the 7 dwarves. That's pretty good I think. Simple enough to develop but more compelling than just tile matching IMO. And would keep you mostly distracted so you're busy mining and you need people to defend you, but you could also try to watch what's happening out of the corner of your eye while you're still playing DDR so you can notice if a goblin heads your way or something. And if you've already got DDR mechanics, you could have a Bard class which similarly is non-combat but by playing DDR, buffs the party. And then the party has to protect him while he keeps his song going or the buff drops off. Instead of just pushing a button and your character plays the song automatically. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 17:55
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Oh gently caress no, the amount of resources MMO's want, i don't want to have to play the same set of lovely songs that I probably don't even like over and over again.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:42
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dogstile posted:Oh gently caress no, the amount of resources MMO's want, i don't want to have to play the same set of lovely songs that I probably don't even like over and over again. Well you don't have to play a bard then.  That's gonna happen with differentiated classes. I think that's a good thing. Not every class should appeal to every player. But there's hopefully one role you do like, and then its interesting performing that role while other people are doing the other roles you wouldn't want to do.That is a fair criticism though. You could make the notes semi-randomized but you'd only have so many actual songs. Then again, games like FFXIV have a massive soundtrack library.
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Jan 23, 2020 19:06
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You could also explore the idea of what a mine even is in that world, and have an exploratory/platform heavy dungeon with plenty of verticality that you get to hop around through various means, maybe have a completely unrealistic pseudo-combat system where you hack at the rock with different picks and rock breakers, for people who like running around places smashing poo poo up, kind of like a 3D Spelunky.
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Jan 23, 2020 19:14
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For me the game that got crafting right was Mortal Online. The weapons had different parts that effected it's performance, and each part could be crafted with different materials which would have different modifiers based on stuff like weight and durability. For example say you want to make a bow. It would have two parts to it, the back and the core. the back effects draw strength (basically damage, full draw time, and str requirements) and to some degree durability, the core effects durability and to a lesser degree draw strength. If you used a soft wood, the bow would draw super fast, be usable by most characters with low strength and be more accurate but the damage would suffer. The opposite was true if you used something like bone or tendons. This meant that there was basically an unlimited amount of options for crafting and being good at it required research and exploration. Most of your time was spent out in the world exploring for different resources to test out. You could really rake it in if you found something that worked really well.
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Jan 23, 2020 21:14
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dogstile posted:Oh gently caress no, the amount of resources MMO's want, i don't want to have to play the same set of lovely songs that I probably don't even like over and over again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ6uBk-cnAo&t=312s
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Jan 24, 2020 01:55
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Mining would suit some sort of rhythm mechanic, maybe even cook up some sweet old timey miner songs for players to mine along to (I'm thinking in the style of We All Lift Together from Warframe) with extra rewards for doing well. On the other hand, those are some pretty sweet ideas So we could have a mine full of monsters where the miner needs to get some help to clear them out, while the fight is going on he's doing some DDR or audio based mini game in a corner to try and get his obsidian or whatever, then they can move on through the mine? Sound good?
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Jan 24, 2020 11:45
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I dunno, now that I've thought of it, 3D Spelunky is the way to go and I want it now and why doesn't it exist already.
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Jan 24, 2020 11:48
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Pathfinder Online pitched hiring player mercenaries to escort your cart from town-to-town if you played an Expert or Commoner. You know, the joke classes in 3.5. That game had a lot of ideas that sound good on paper but collapse immediately under any form of scrutiny. edit: Has, not had apparently. game won't die.
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Jan 24, 2020 12:03
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Eox posted:Pathfinder Online pitched hiring player mercenaries to escort your cart from town-to-town if you played an Expert or Commoner. You know, the joke classes in 3.5. That game had a lot of ideas that sound good on paper but collapse immediately under any form of scrutiny. NPC "Guards" have to be fairly strong else they become worthless vs real players. You have to make sure they cant be kited away, they have to be strong enough to fight back but not so strong that huge raids become the only way to fight them. Basically I have not found a good way to make them work unless the Expert or Commoner class are a pet class yelling at his troops (which would be funny).
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Jan 24, 2020 15:57
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Any good action MMO will probably have to brand itself as persistent open world or similar, with the term MMO being very studiously avoided. I've tried advancing similar ideas to MMO fans I know and every one of them was fully wed to the idea that MMO = basically the WoW formula, and any funny talk about changing that very specific formula was met with sullen opposition at every step, like it's some unthinkable impossibility. Basically, the average MMO player is like an old man grumbling over his pint of bitter in his lovely, smoky old man pub with peeling wallpaper that hasn't been redone since the early 90s. They know what they like and woe betide anyone who tries to change it. I've noticed this same thing about MMOs and their audience. Anything that could subvert the MY NUMBERS gameplay doesn't belong to MMOs to these people. I already wrote an effortpost about the subject on this forum somewhere, and it was met with responses along the lines of "you can't do this" by MMO fanatics and "i would also like dark souls: the mmorpg" by many others Minorkos fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 00:01
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PyRosflam posted:NPC "Guards" have to be fairly strong else they become worthless vs real players. You have to make sure they cant be kited away, they have to be strong enough to fight back but not so strong that huge raids become the only way to fight them. Permadeath, let any enemy have a chance of getting a lucky blow no matter what, and make accounts cost $10. The something awful method of gameplay incentives. But then you probably don't want to center your core gameplay loop around violence if you're just going to discourage it.
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Jan 25, 2020 02:02
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Eox posted:Pathfinder Online pitched hiring player mercenaries to escort your cart from town-to-town if you played an Expert or Commoner. You know, the joke classes in 3.5. That game had a lot of ideas that sound good on paper but collapse immediately under any form of scrutiny. They tried  But that's part of the whole problem; designing new gameplay paradigms is very expensive. You make something that sounds good on paper, implement it, and find out its not so fun. Doing something new and good requires lots of trial and error and iteration. World changing games like Halo and Half-life end up taking like 6 years to make, which is insane. Working on one game for 6 years is a long time. Nobody really wants to do that. So that's why we don't get new mmos and get a lot of FPS games. Minorkos posted:I've noticed this same thing about MMOs and their audience. Anything that could subvert the MY NUMBERS gameplay doesn't belong to MMOs to these people. I already wrote an effortpost about the subject on this forum somewhere, and it was met with responses along the lines of "you can't do this" by MMO fanatics and "i would also like dark souls: the mmorpg" by many others They've either got stockholm syndrome from 200,000 literal hours of MMO gameplay, or they're bad at all other games. But the thing is even if you do dark souls the mmorpg, you could STILL account for people who want action bars combat. You could just have alternative classes. Warriors & rogues -> dark souls, wizards -> hotbars. Like that. Everybody wins! And poo poo, you could also just keep wow going or whatever. Not every game needs to be for every gamer. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 02:14
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Zaphod42 posted:Not every game needs to be for every gamer. While completely true that won't stop a disjointed army of internet narcissists out there from demanding that every game developer conform to their armchair One True Vision of what every video game should be. Especially that game you like and they don't but want changed to be like other game they used to play but not any more. Toss 'em all a clip binder full of BASIC manual pages and tell them to go write a text adventure or something. It'll do them good.
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Jan 25, 2020 02:32
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So, I was talking to some friends the other day about MMO combat. I'm sure it's been talked about in here somewhere in detail, but what even would be satisfying combat for like 1000+ hours? Dark souls keeps coming up, it'd be a pain to implement in an MMO but let's pretend... Could it be just as deadly? Fights might be too quick. A lot of time in dark souls is spent analysing attack patterns and then finding a method to actually win Unless you had really soft respawn, or some other kinda failure mechanic in there, I'm not sure how you'd emulate that in a non-single player game. And if you the combat "softer" then you're kinda defeating the point of "dark souls combat" right? Then what about BDO's system? They've got that kinda beat-em-up combo thing going on with a lot of fluid animations/movement so everything you do feels good, and it seems to work Albeit, as the game got more mature, the combat got more and more complicated and it kinda put me off personally once the combos for one class went off the end of an A4 page I think we all agree hotbars with cool downs kinda suck, I'm not even sure there's a massive amount you can do to the formula to make it interesting But what about turn based? Even if it was really snappy, like you had 5 seconds to decide on an action or you just defaulted to attacking? Obviously it has pros and cons, it'd be fantastic for the netcode, but it'd also only really appeal to a (smaller?) different group of people too TemTem is obviously turn based, because pokemon, but everyone expects/wants that from TemTem. Would it be awful if it was in an MMO that wasn't a JRPG? Apologies for the dump post, I'm just enjoying these conversations too much
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Jan 25, 2020 14:35
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kaffo posted:So, I was talking to some friends the other day about MMO combat. I'm sure it's been talked about in here somewhere in detail, but what even would be satisfying combat for like 1000+ hours? Bayonetta.
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Jan 25, 2020 17:03
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kaffo posted:So, I was talking to some friends the other day about MMO combat. I'm sure it's been talked about in here somewhere in detail, but what even would be satisfying combat for like 1000+ hours? Puzzle Pirates.
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Jan 25, 2020 17:16
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