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I refuse to see that as anything other than full cover
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Jan 25, 2020 15:32
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Toshimo posted:Figure 2 ducks around a wall to escape Figure 1. Does Figure 2 now have cover/concealment from Figure 1's spells/ranged attacks? Can Figure 2 now hide? gently caress the idiot who said it's any kind of cover, it's concealment. And sure, they could hide, but if it's literally nothing but a wall there, it would be at disadvantage, because the figure 1 can just move ten/fifteen feet over and see them like a kid trying to hide behind a curtain. At best I'd say Figure 2 could do a standard Hide check, but if Figure 1 moved they would have advantage on the perception check to find them. So I suppose if Figure 1 had other targets then Figure 2 could hide successfully, but again, if that's all the movement Figure 2 is gonna do it won't matter. And if Figure 1 did some thing like Fireball ten feet to the south, figure two wouldn't even have advantage on the Dex save given Fireball's range. Nucular Carmul fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 15:33
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I would think it would depend on the height of the intervening wall. Does modern D&D use corner-to-corner line of sight? Even then though, the corner to corner line touches the corner of an obstacle. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 15:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I would think it would depend on the height of the intervening wall. I think you're right, but given that they just say "wall" I'm going with the assumption that it's a relatively standard wall in a building, or perhaps they're running around the corner of a structure. If it was four to five feet tall that probably falls under 3/4, three feet or less is probably half. But again, there isn't much given aside from the basic figure. Edit: For your second part, i don't think it explicitly says it in 5e, but historically you needed at least two corners of each combatant's space to line up with a direct line to be able to see them at all. In the given figure, only one corner even touches on a direct line, so they're not able to directly see each other.
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Jan 25, 2020 15:43
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Nucular Carmul posted:I think you're right, but given that they just say "wall" I'm going with the assumption that it's a relatively standard wall in a building, or perhaps they're running around the corner of a structure. If it was four to five feet tall that probably falls under 3/4, three feet or less is probably half. But again, there isn't much given aside from the basic figure. One easy rule would be that each corner you can trace a line to subtracts 1/4 cover from total cover. That's an easy bright line house rule at least. But even then, the one line you can draw touches the corner of a wall anyway.
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Jan 25, 2020 15:48
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The fuckiest thing is that rules like this make it impossible to have an ambush really exist (for either side) because you cannot construct a plane, even a 5 fr thick one where seeing beyond it (through a doorway, for instance) happens so far in advance of passing through it, that you'll have LoS on enemies well before they can act (and also it gets weird because you can essentially melee attack around a corner).
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Jan 25, 2020 17:51
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Yeah. It's an byproduct of diagonals and how space in D&D is handled. Like he said it's DM Fiat, so I'd probably rule it as full cover because obviously anyone moving or standing there would try to stand in a position to avoid getting hit by someone on the other side within their 5 foot box, but RAW he's right. Turns out when ranges are in 5 foot increments silly edge cases sometimes happens. Sorry lazy Phone drawing  But yeah If the scale was halved and they both were standing in the bottom right hand corner it'd be much more obvious as 3/4's cover. As it might be theoretically possible to snake a shot around that corner to hit someone.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:38
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The rule as written.
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Jan 25, 2020 19:39
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Dexo posted:Yeah. It's an byproduct of diagonals and how space in D&D is handled. If you make a real straight line it looks like a miss. 
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Jan 25, 2020 20:10
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Dexo posted:The rule as written. I think the question is whether or not drawing through the wall corner counts as "blocking". In some games I've played it would, others it wouldnt.
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Jan 25, 2020 20:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think the question is whether or not drawing through the wall corner counts as "blocking". In some games I've played it would, others it wouldnt. As a DM I would rule that going along the corner of a wall means that line is blocked. If the extreme corner of a square with a PC/NPC counts as part of the square, then I say the extreme corner of a wall square counts as wall thus LOS is blocked.
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Jan 25, 2020 20:15
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Kung Food posted:If you make a real straight line it looks like a miss. https://giant.gfycat.com/AcrobaticGiganticIzuthrush.mp4  In any game I run both of those people have to move to shoot each other
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Jan 25, 2020 20:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WkQ4f9G6ok
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Jan 25, 2020 20:32
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Supposedly you don't take up your entire square, so I would rule it as a full miss because the person on the other side would stay away from the only corner you would be able to reach
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Jan 25, 2020 20:32
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just cast fireball and let the gods sort em out
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Jan 25, 2020 20:38
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What is the neatest thing you ever saw someone do with an Illusion?
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Jan 25, 2020 20:43
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Assuming a tall enough wall because otherwise we're being so nitpicky that ANY example collapses: Full cover and you can hide AT THAT MOMENT, because, in a world of magic, guy 1 can't guarantee that he's there. Sure, if 1 then walked right, then whatever rule for "looking for a guy in an obvious spot when he has no concealment whatsoever" which, I imagine, would either be easy or an automatic success. But stuff like this CAN matter when taking into account environmental circumstances and supernatural abilities up to and including portals/teleportation, secret doors, walking through walls, or (I don't know if this exists or exists yet) hide-in-plain-sight. I would side with "if 1 launched a fireball to the right, no cover from the explosion", sure. But, in a sense of "let's not assume NPC omniscience", I don't see how "he can see you if he moves 15 feet to the right" immediately translates to "1 is absolutely certain you're there and that you don't have any possible way out ever, so hiding is either impossible or extremely hard at that exact moment", and if that IS how you'd rule, I'd definitely not play something like an illusionist. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 25, 2020 |
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Jan 25, 2020 21:52
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tanglewood1420 posted:If the extreme corner of a square with a PC/NPC counts as part of the square, then I say the extreme corner of a wall square counts as wall thus LOS is blocked. This is also a very smart observation I think
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Jan 25, 2020 22:01
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There's also stuff like, say there's some big ol' pots or debris or whatever along the wall. As soon as you're no longer visible you have options for where to hide, but if you only have 3/4 cover then you aren't concealed and you can't hide nearly as effectively.
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Jan 25, 2020 22:02
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:There's also stuff like, say there's some big ol' pots or debris or whatever along the wall. As soon as you're no longer visible you have options for where to hide, but if you only have 3/4 cover then you aren't concealed and you can't hide nearly as effectively. What if instead of pottery it was 
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Jan 25, 2020 22:40
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A guy in my group is some sort of idiot savant of roleplaying. With no prior experience of tabletop roleplaying, d&d or forgotten realms and no knowledge beyond a pre-made starter character sheet and a primer of the rules, he has invented basically the platonic ideal of a dwarven battlerager. Literally every single detail. Also he managed to stuff a Dybbuk into a bag of holding through a series of improbable events and there's absolutely no way this isn't going to backfire horribly.
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Jan 26, 2020 02:20
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Gharbad the Weak posted:I would side with "if 1 launched a fireball to the right, no cover from the explosion", sure. But, in a sense of "let's not assume NPC omniscience", I don't see how "he can see you if he moves 15 feet to the right" immediately translates to "1 is absolutely certain you're there and that you don't have any possible way out ever, so hiding is either impossible or extremely hard at that exact moment", and if that IS how you'd rule, I'd definitely not play something like an illusionist. This goes back to an earlier discussion on player knowledge. Lets say that when the DM moves 2 behind the wall, instead of rolling for stealth then saying "He's hidden, act like he is" the DM took the token off the map and mentally kept track of where it moved. So the players don't actually know where he is. What do you think the odds are that number 1 still casts fireball vs the player knowing where 2 is even though the character shouldn't?
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Jan 26, 2020 03:32
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please knock Mom! posted:I refuse to see that as anything other than full cover It's full cover, assuming that's an actual full wall, and #2 can also hide because he's out of sight and has cover to hide behind. It's impossible to draw a straight line that touches #2's square and doesn't also clip the wall's. #2 is no longer hidden from #1 the moment #1 steps around the corner and looks that way unless #2 moves to a better position/hiding place first or has the cover of darkness, because cover stops being a hiding spot once it stops being cover. The 3/4th ruling is insane.
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Jan 26, 2020 03:47
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Gharbad the Weak posted:I would side with "if 1 launched a fireball to the right, no cover from the explosion", sure. But, in a sense of "let's not assume NPC omniscience", I don't see how "he can see you if he moves 15 feet to the right" immediately translates to "1 is absolutely certain you're there and that you don't have any possible way out ever, so hiding is either impossible or extremely hard at that exact moment", and if that IS how you'd rule, I'd definitely not play something like an illusionist. I wouldn't frame it as "the npc knows where you are so he casts fireball in exactly the right spot." It's more, combat rounds are just a few seconds, and if someone ran around a wall they probably wouldn't get too far. If figure 2 ran around the wall, then figure 1 is next on initiative, then these things are happening almost simultaneously, with figure 1 having only a second or two to process that his target ran around the structure, but probably only has made it a few feet, so he can probably safely just aim Fireball at the floor just shy of the corner and cover enough area that he can reasonably try to snag the guy in its blast radius. Again, if figure 1 has any other targets easily in sight, he'd probably go for them. Figure 2 could be setting a trap, so why not take out figure 3 or 4? Also, if figure 1 is the player, they'd probably try to take a shot at figure 2, but as DM you'd say something to the effect of you don't have a clear shot, so they'd ask if they noticed figure 2 running around the corner. It happened directly in front of them, so yeah, sure you noticed. Okay I take fifteen feet of movement to the right and shoot. There's no omniscience needed or assumed here.
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Jan 26, 2020 04:00
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Oh, my problem isn't that it's completely reasonable to assume someone is there. And I know if I had a fireball, I'd immediately shoot it directly south of 2, probably before bothering to move. Alternatively, if I'm reasonably sure there's no escape, I might wait them out. I have a very specific issue: the idea that you can't use (or can use at a penalty) a mechanical feature when you meet all the requirements. It might be a completely useless, silly thing to do. But, there may be other mechanics that depend on being specifically hidden, vs just out of sight (I dunno, "teleport 1/day from hiding" or something) . And THAT may matter in a way this exercise doesn't cover. The omniscience in question is "you fail to hide because I, the DM, and thus the NPC, knows that you're trapped." "gently caress it, I'll just throw explosives until I can reasonably assume he's dead" is an honored tradition I'd never deny anyone, PC or NPC. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 26, 2020 |
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Jan 26, 2020 07:03
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Kung Food posted:This goes back to an earlier discussion on player knowledge. Lets say that when the DM moves 2 behind the wall, instead of rolling for stealth then saying "He's hidden, act like he is" the DM took the token off the map and mentally kept track of where it moved. So the players don't actually know where he is. What do you think the odds are that number 1 still casts fireball vs the player knowing where 2 is even though the character shouldn't? Nucular Carmul posted:I wouldn't frame it as "the npc knows where you are so he casts fireball in exactly the right spot." It's more, combat rounds are just a few seconds, and if someone ran around a wall they probably wouldn't get too far. If figure 2 ran around the wall, then figure 1 is next on initiative, then these things are happening almost simultaneously, with figure 1 having only a second or two to process that his target ran around the structure, but probably only has made it a few feet, so he can probably safely just aim Fireball at the floor just shy of the corner and cover enough area that he can reasonably try to snag the guy in its blast radius. That's basically how my group handles it. We treat being hidden as more like a status, with conditions that you have to meet to have it granted. Have cover, make check. Hidden to any creature who cannot see you, who's passive perception is below your hide check result. If hidden, then you can't be targeted directly, but there's no reason that an enemy won't assume your position and target it with an applicable aoe, or come around your cover making you visible to them and thus no longer hidden. If hidden, then advantage on attacks, no longer hidden once you attack. You end up with a pretty predictable rhythm for the rogue to follow, which tends to be the best example with cunning action. The rogue finds cover, ends their round with their bonus action to hide, so they start each round by stepping out of cover, attacking at advantage with sneak attack, stepping back behind cover, bonus action hide. Anyone else could do similarly if they felt like it, although without sneak attack spending your action on a hide check for a single attack with advantage the next round is probably not worth it.
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Jan 26, 2020 12:54
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Anyone have houserules for hight advantage? My group rules that if you’re elevated at least twice the height of an enemy you have advantage.
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Jan 26, 2020 18:50
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Balon posted:Anyone have houserules for hight advantage? My group rules that if you’re elevated at least twice the height of an enemy you have advantage. My Aarakocra would love this rule nobody else would that is, this is probably a great mechanic in some games but would break down the second anyone got consistent Flight. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 26, 2020 |
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Jan 26, 2020 19:02
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Balon posted:Anyone have houserules for hight advantage? My group rules that if you’re elevated at least twice the height of an enemy you have advantage. So goliaths have advantage on gnomes by default? A monk doing a flying kick has advantage automatically if they can jump high enough? In seriousness, I'd only allow it if the target isn't aware of you, or if they're otherwise not expecting what you are doing.
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Jan 26, 2020 20:45
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Can someone help me with the setup of a Sorcerer/Paladin multiclass character? I am thinking of rerolling as an excellent ingame avenue for it has opened up, and I am feeling a bit uninspired playing Barbarian. Here's the details: 1) The character must be a mountain dwarf for RP reasons. Not ideal in terms of Charisma, but the other two attributes are fine at least 2) The character must function as a tank for the group, as it replaces the only tanky member currently, my Barbarian 3) I'm leaning towards the War Caster feat as I need to be running a shield and the synergy with Booming Blade is great. 4) The character will likely start with a Ring of Protection and no other magic items. 5) The character will start at either level 6 or 7. 6) We use standard pointbuy 7) Must choose Draconic Sorcerer for RP reasons It seems that starting with Paladin at 1 is stronger for Saves+heavy armor access, and that fits with the RP too. I am unsure about class distribution, both to start with (at either 6 or 7) as well as how/when to take ASIs and Warcaster. I am also unsure about how many Paladin levels I end on. I guess 2 or 6 make sense. Anyone wanna chime in?
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Jan 26, 2020 21:05
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Everything else is easy, but what is your definition of "tank for the group" as it pertains to Dungeons and Dragons the Fifth Edition?
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Jan 26, 2020 21:08
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Conspiratiorist posted:Everything else is easy, but what is your definition of "tank for the group" as it pertains to Dungeons and Dragons the Fifth Edition? Crowd control, crowd control, crowd control. Whether you're a pole arm master sentinel, paladin of conquest, or spell caster with hypnotic pattern, your job is to immobilize and hamper enemies so they don't pile onto squishy dudes. Having a pile of AC doesn't cut it when people can just dive the rogue.
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Jan 26, 2020 21:13
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I mean, that depends on how the DM runs combats. If they don't have enemies try to short-circuit the big guy in front, then AC and HP are a lot more helpful for tanking. That said, of course if the enemy is disabled / restrained / etc. then they'll have a lot more trouble doing damage to anyone, squishy or not.
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Jan 26, 2020 21:38
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It really comes down to what you want to do with your character, maybe breaking it down by big miles stones each class gets might help. Paladin 2: Smite (Kind of a must and half the reason to take paladin) Paladin 3: Oath features Paladin 5: Extra attack and level 2 paladin spells (ie level 2 smites) Sorc 3: Metamagic (The main reason to be a sorc really) Sorc 5: Level 3 sorc spells. Sorc 6: Elemental affinity (sadly there are no thunder damage dragon lineages) Personally I would go: paladin 2 and sorc 5 to get smite, metamagic and level 3 sorc spells. On another note, looking over the raw again, is there any reason someone couldn't twin spell booming blade as long as two foes are in range? Seems like it could be pretty powerful. Or use quickened spell to cast it twice on one target? Seems like it would be up to the DM if the sheathed in thunder part stacks or not.
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Jan 26, 2020 22:29
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Kung Food posted:It really comes down to what you want to do with your character, maybe breaking it down by big miles stones each class gets might help. Edit: I might be wrong from googling it? Nvm
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Jan 26, 2020 22:40
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Lobsterpillar posted:So goliaths have advantage on gnomes by default? A monk doing a flying kick has advantage automatically if they can jump high enough? No it’s a standing elevation, and only ranged attacks (for reasons of reach in most instances). But again, just an example of our house rule.
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Jan 26, 2020 23:17
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Kung Food posted:On another note, looking over the raw again, is there any reason someone couldn't twin spell booming blade as long as two foes are in range? Seems like it could be pretty powerful. Or use quickened spell to cast it twice on one target? Seems like it would be up to the DM if the sheathed in thunder part stacks or not. You can twin and quicken Booming Blade, but I'm not sure about twinning GFB because of the second target option. Both are 1 action cantrips so it should be possible. The quickened secondary movement damage effect on BB does not stack though, as per normal spell effect stacking rules. It would still work if you twinned it because it's doing it to two targets. Crumbletron fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jan 26, 2020 |
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Jan 26, 2020 23:48
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Mechanically be whatever race you want, cross out the race name and write "but actually a dwarf." If you're a bird person, you're a dwarf with a jetpack.
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Jan 27, 2020 00:12
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Crumbletron posted:You can twin and quicken Booming Blade, but I'm not sure about twinning GFB because of the second target option. Both are 1 action cantrips so it should be possible. The quickened secondary movement damage effect on BB does not stack though, as per normal spell effect stacking rules. It would still work if you twinned it because it's doing it to two targets. https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/10/can-you-us-twinned-spell-with-green-flame-blade/
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Jan 27, 2020 00:35
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The Mash posted:Can someone help me with the setup of a Sorcerer/Paladin multiclass character? I am thinking of rerolling as an excellent ingame avenue for it has opened up, and I am feeling a bit uninspired playing Barbarian. Here's the details: Shadow blade + smite + green flame blade = 2d8 psychic damage + 3d8 radiant damage +1d8 fire damage + strength Sorceror might be a better start level due to the Constitution saving throw bonus but Warcaster is solving that problem anyway. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 00:40
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