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MechaX posted:I’ll have to rewatch the ending because I didn’t even catch that he even dated Chad after the skip One of the other Tekkadan survivors mentions Chad is heading out for drinks with Yamagi, which is a very loaded phrase where that boy is concerned.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:40
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i think it's Eugene, specifically because he does the same thing to Akihiro earlier with Lafter.
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Jan 24, 2020 22:53
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Million Ghosts posted:i think it's Eugene, specifically because he does the same thing to Akihiro earlier with Lafter. Eugene was also Shino's best friend and confidant. They blew their first paycheck on booze and hookers together (earning Eugene the nickname "Cherry boy" from Lafter in the dub), and Eugene was the guy who went "Hey, Shino. You know Yamagi like likes you, right?" So that's a bit more evidence. It's only a couple of lines, and it could be read as just them being drinking buddies, unlike Shino and Yamagi or Kudelia and Atra where interviews outright confirmed things, but the circumstantial evidence (including Chad blushing) is strong enough I can see the argument.
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Jan 25, 2020 01:43
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I just finished watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam. It really was a lot better than I expected it to be! I have some assorted thoughts I'd heard that it was back-heavy, plot wise, and boy, was that true. I wish that the Newtype stuff had been more spread out throughout the show (I do understand that the suddenness was because of the shortened season length, but still). Amuro's a really good main character! He felt like a fresh of breath air compared to most shone protagonists, who tend to be either hotheaded idiots or sullen and angsty. He must have been revolutionary in 1979! The show did a good job of having Amuro and the rest of the cast feel like amateurs, only winning because they had a huge technological advantage, to an experienced pilot. I was surprised by how gritty it was. It always felt like things were breaking down or weren't working properly, and that nobody ever had time to rest. I was also surprised by how many women there were. I wouldn't call the show feminist by any stretch, but there were way more women in important roles than I would expect for a 1979-1980 show. Sayla Mass Kicks rear end
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Jan 26, 2020 05:58
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thetoughestbean posted:I just finished watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam. It really was a lot better than I expected it to be! I have some assorted thoughts Yep. I still haven't watched the whole thing, (just listened to the Mobile Suit Breakdown podcast, read the Origin, and watched a few eps), but just watching those episodes struck me with how good it was. I knew the base story was excellent from the Origin manga, and I knew the anime's art could sometimes get... wonky, but the directing, the voices, the balance of scenes? It's excellent, giving everything a sense of weight and grounding. 079 feels real, even in comparison to most of its descendants. Watching a lot of its contemporaries and successors put even more emphasis on how amazing it was. (Amuro's VA was just thrilled to play someone who wasn't a hot blooded yelling machine). As for the women, yeah. Original Gundam has a lot of cool female characters. Which might be part of why you see so much frustration with Zeta. Booby fanservice anime 128 being sexist is expected. Zeta, meanwhile, follows up in the original Gundam's footsteps, and it still has a ton of interesting female characters, so it making GBS threads the bed so aggressively is much more grating.
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Jan 26, 2020 07:41
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thetoughestbean posted:I just finished watching the original Mobile Suit Gundam. It really was a lot better than I expected it to be! I have some assorted thoughts Apparently the majority of the original fanbase were was female, with the male taking over afterwards.
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Jan 26, 2020 09:54
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MonsieurChoc posted:Apparently the majority of the original fanbase were was female, with the male taking over afterwards. If I recall properly that's at least partially because the initial merchandise for it was kinda bad, and it wasn't till they started making the model kits* that it really started catching on with a male audience more consistently *to put some more context to this, the TV run for MSG was from April of 1979 through January of 1980, while the first Gunpla didn't come out till 1980(indeed if I'm reading the site I'm at correctly not until July of 1980), though once it did come out it pretty quickly became a pretty big success, with the original model kit line lasting all the way through 1984(also funny thing, while the articulation is extremely crude by modern standards, there is more of it than I thought there would be for a lot of them, must have been mind blowing back then)
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Jan 26, 2020 10:46
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MonsieurChoc posted:Apparently the majority of the original fanbase were was female, with the male taking over afterwards. Not quite. If I remember right, girls were "only" about 30 percent of the initial fandom, but they were some of the most intense about it. You know, fan letters, doujins, that kind of thing. More a strikingly large secondary demographic than the show switching primaries. The show had a bit of a problem along those lines anyway, though, with the audience skewing older than the sponsors wanted. Clover figures weren't so popular with the college set.
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Jan 26, 2020 10:59
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chiasaur11 posted:Not quite. Yeah, Gundam appealed a lot to female fans (Who turn out, supremely dig the human drama born from a ship of civilians/children stuck in a horrid war) and college/high school students (Who felt they had a story that was actually telling them a story.) Like, Kojima just had a tweet series a while back about being in College/High School when MSG came on and how it shaped a LOT of how he viewed war, and the stories he would go on to tell. Shocking, I know. I repeatedly tell people, because some understand when I say Gundam was unique and special, but very few get how Important it was, as a story. And honestly, some of my feelings regarding the franchise can be codified as "Feeling as if the franchise can no longer tell an important story."
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Jan 26, 2020 11:40
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chiasaur11 posted:Not quite. And the Clover figures didn't do all that great with kids because while they were fairly good quality for the era they also didn't stand out all that well cause they did pretty much all the same stuff every other Mecha series of the era did with their toys Though it is kinda funny in retrospect how those toys ended up feeding back into the franchise as quite a few later Gundam variants definitely took influence from the Clover figures(most obvious with the Perfect Gundam, but a bunch of the other MSV add-ons and variants to the original Gundam borrow from it as well, including even The Origin's version)
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Jan 26, 2020 11:40
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0079 indeed does rule. the first time i watched it it was with a roommate who was completely dismissive of the whole thing, but she decided to give it a shot. within about 5 episodes she was the one bugging me to watch it with her, because instead of being a robot fight show, it's a literal WW2 drama transplanted into space. now she's seen more of the franchise than i have. i actually think in general the animation is great though. everyone's seen the screenshots of the RX-78 being super off model, but (mostly) the movements of the mobile suits look quite weighty and realistic for a low budget tv show. even just in episode 1 the Zakus sliding down a hill look impressive.
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Jan 26, 2020 12:47
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Onmi posted:Yeah, Gundam appealed a lot to female fans (Who turn out, supremely dig the human drama born from a ship of civilians/children stuck in a horrid war) and college/high school students (Who felt they had a story that was actually telling them a story.) I think you're right that it can't be that important again, because you only get to reshape the entire entertainment landscape from nowhere once. Gundam is a name to summon by these days, a cultural touchstone in Japan and (to a lesser degree) the world in general. A Gundam show being the most acclaimed, influential anime of the year isn't a massive shock. It's simply living up to the legacy. IBO's first season and SSSS. Gridman both sold over 9,000 Blu Rays on average. Both shows recieved best of the year awards. IBO sold more merch and had better TV ratings. But Gridman was a huge deal, a breakout hit. Its success was widely discussed, while Iron Blooded Orphans being that successful was taken as a given, or even seen as an underperformance. Gundam is still big, and it can still be good, (I'd argue Iron Blooded Orphans is up there with the best shows the franchise has produced) but it can't be unique any more, because there's 40 years of other Gundam in the same niche. Even stuff with notable impact, like Wing, is making that impact in the shadow of the original.
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Jan 26, 2020 12:52
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chiasaur11 posted:Not quite. Ah, okay. Still a cool fact.
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Jan 26, 2020 18:16
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Million Ghosts posted:
I mean it's pretty obvious the show had no budget at all, but it holds up more due to the creativity of the fights. Grabbing a Zaku by its head unit and then punching it so hard it's snorkel tears off is some good poo poo. Or the Guncannon sneaking up and cow-tipping another Zaku off a cliff. When you have no budget you have to get creative like that, so you end up with a lot of memorable setpieces that become iconic because of how they stand out from the general static frames that show uses for the majority of the time.
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Jan 26, 2020 18:46
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I totally missed this first time round and only just noticed on a rewatch.  
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Jan 26, 2020 19:06
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Arcsquad12 posted:I mean it's pretty obvious the show had no budget at all, but it holds up more due to the creativity of the fights. Grabbing a Zaku by its head unit and then punching it so hard it's snorkel tears off is some good poo poo. Or the Guncannon sneaking up and cow-tipping another Zaku off a cliff. To put it another way having good fight choreography leads to cool fights more consistently than a hefty budget. In general a cool fight that looks like poo poo will win out over a poo poo fight with all the graphical bells and whistles. This isn't a hard and fast rule as there are certain cool things you can do to elevate a fight that can only happen with X amount of animation budget, and similarly there is a lower limit of budget under which you're hosed even with good choreography, but the amount of money you need to make excellent combat setpieces is far smaller than the amount of money you need to do really flashy stuff.
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Jan 26, 2020 19:30
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Omnicrom posted:To put it another way having good fight choreography leads to cool fights more consistently than a hefty budget. In general a cool fight that looks like poo poo will win out over a poo poo fight with all the graphical bells and whistles. This isn't a hard and fast rule as there are certain cool things you can do to elevate a fight that can only happen with X amount of animation budget, and similarly there is a lower limit of budget under which you're hosed even with good choreography, but the amount of money you need to make excellent combat setpieces is far smaller than the amount of money you need to do really flashy stuff. there's a reason Guncannon lobbing a big rear end rock is an iconic moment. but yeah, for sure. while 0079 might objectively look like total poo poo sometimes, i'm never bored when a fight breaks out, and that's something i can't really say consistently about any other Gundam series. IBO is close but S2 drags it's feet for like half the episodes. 00 and Seed both have the most boring nothing fights despite having budget and being pretty.
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Jan 26, 2020 21:57
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tomino shows seem to all have good action choreo, i just attribute it to him/collaborators tbh
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Jan 26, 2020 22:49
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I think the thing is Tomino sees fights as another way to include jokes and subtle characterization
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Jan 26, 2020 23:19
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Tomino shows genuinely seem willing to be weird which I think helps a lot. Even if it's strange poo poo it's strange poo poo that is extremely distinctive or interesting or memorable. Fights very rarely feel samey and if they do it's usually in one of Tomino's weaker shows. G-Reco had a lot of issues but it was extremely good at creating immensely distinctive fight choreography. Units like the Mack Knife feel like nothing else in Gundam and that's a good thing.
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Jan 26, 2020 23:24
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00 and Seed both have some really good fights but a lot of them, most egregiously late Destiny and the 00 movie devolve into mindless beam spam and flashing lights with zero choreography or thought, just money.
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Jan 26, 2020 23:29
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I’m on episode 25 of 0079 and I wish I watched the old show back when Toonami was airing it because god drat I love it. The opening is so great, I never skip it. I really liked “Time, be still”, it got right in the feels when everyone came to help Amuro at the end with the last bomb 
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Jan 27, 2020 03:05
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I'm five episodes into Zeta and so far everybody's just slapping each other and stealing Gundams.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:11
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thetoughestbean posted:I'm five episodes into Zeta and so far everybody's just slapping each other and stealing Gundams. The first part there does not change. People randomly punching each other is just normal Zeta.
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Jan 27, 2020 03:34
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Blaze Dragon posted:The first part there does not change. People randomly punching each other is just normal Zeta. Sounds like someone's asking for a "correction". The original Gundam had people hitting each other at big, emotional moments. Sleggar hitting Mirai and Cameron, or Bright hitting Amuro, is talked about because it was uncommon and shocking. Zeta? Zeta everybody slugs it out all the time. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 03:36
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Everyone's just part of the Amuro Ray Simulation program to create the next Amuro Ray by punching teenagers with attitude.
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Jan 27, 2020 04:06
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RevolverDivider posted:00 and Seed both have some really good fights but a lot of them, most egregiously late Destiny and the 00 movie devolve into mindless beam spam and flashing lights with zero choreography or thought, just money. I won't defend Destiny, but I thought the 00 Movie's fight was perfectly fine at being what it was. It was the best and biggest lightshow AD Calendar Gundam could put forth fighting a losing battle against infinity ELS units while everyone hopes desperately Setsuna can pull off a miracle. A world's worth of beam spam wasn't good enough, which is one of the points of the movie. Argas posted:Everyone's just part of the Amuro Ray Simulation program to create the next Amuro Ray by punching teenagers with attitude. And now we're talking about Kojima again.
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Jan 27, 2020 04:10
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Victory has some of the best fight choreography in mecha history.
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Jan 27, 2020 05:48
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I feel like the part where Uso vaporized bazooka-carrying-bikini-clad-women with a beam sword wiped almost everything else about Victory directly from my mind. I think there was wheel-robots.
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Jan 27, 2020 06:29
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Classon Ave. Robot posted:I feel like the part where Uso vaporized bazooka-carrying-bikini-clad-women with a beam sword wiped almost everything else about Victory directly from my mind. I think there was wheel-robots. How could one forget the man who brought the ancient tradition of motorbiking to Gundam? That's... about the only worthwhile thing from Victory.
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Jan 27, 2020 06:46
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Holy poo poo I just randomly opened an episode of Victory Gundam to see what kind of mobile suits would be on the screen and I was greeted with a scene where Uso's mom gets beheaded by a giant motorbike landing on her right in front of his fuckin face. What a nightmare of a show.
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Jan 27, 2020 07:17
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The episode where a shrike pilot was killed while holding up a bridge still haunts me
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Jan 27, 2020 07:27
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God, that was so horrifying. That's one of the things I definitely didn't forget from the series. I always think about how bad Victory was in so many ways but like... I can't think of many other things that made me feel the way Victory did. I definitely don't regret watching it.
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Jan 27, 2020 07:31
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See everything mentioned definitely justifies why despite me loving it's mechanical designs why I've never bothered watching Victory Gundam, but then I'll admit I'm a bit of an oddball in that despite loving Gundam as a franchise, I have an incredibly low tolerance for the type of stuff it often includes, which is probably why Wing and G are the only TV series I've watched in full
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Jan 27, 2020 07:50
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Tae posted:The episode where a shrike pilot was killed while holding up a bridge still haunts me And then they made that scene the box for the RE/100 GunEZ.  https://www.hlj.com/1-100-scale-re-100-gun-ez-bans55587 ... God I love Victory Gundam
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Jan 27, 2020 08:09
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The GunEZ and GunBlaster were cool designs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2i_xulsDDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYbgQnZz3w
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Jan 27, 2020 08:47
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Victory was just miserable in a way I didn't think a Gundam show could manage, but I enjoyed watching it despite that. Hell, if anything, it made going to Turn A even better. Victory left me cold and sad, Turn A gave me a blanket and told me everything was gonna be okay.
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Jan 27, 2020 09:16
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RevolverDivider posted:00 and Seed both have some really good fights but a lot of them, most egregiously late Destiny and the 00 movie devolve into mindless beam spam and flashing lights with zero choreography or thought, just money. This is incredibly unfair, but when I think of 00's fights, an image flashes in my brain of the GNX blob from that one episode just getting jerked around the frame as lasers fly everywhere. I can't even remember which episode it was in, just that it was the most ridiculous thing, to the point where low detail Atra seemed straight out of a Shinkai film in comparison. I know most fights in 00 aren't like that, but man. That was amazing. Having watched a little of most Gundam and having finished 08th, 0080, CCA, the Origin, half of Zeta, SD Gundam's Counterattack, F91, G Gundam, Endless Waltz, G Saviour, Turn A, Evolve, IGLOO 2, Stargazer, Unicorn, Gundam San, Thunderbolt, Twilight Axis, Battlogue, and Sangoku Soketsuden, I still think IBO gets the lead for me in fights. Grunts get to stick around enough that rapid takedowns feel like a sign of skill, there's a lot of creative kills, and the way the show was structured means there weren't a lot of filler fights taking down the average. (Oh, and there were a surprising number of fights in season 2 without the main Gundam around. So that's kinda neat.)
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Jan 27, 2020 09:50
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chiasaur11 posted:This is incredibly unfair, but when I think of 00's fights, an image flashes in my brain of the GNX blob from that one episode just getting jerked around the frame as lasers fly everywhere. Is that the GN-X donut scene? That scene was so bizarre given that S1 was getting really good at that point and they included that goofy scene that's not even animated well at all
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Jan 27, 2020 15:11
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Miching Mallecho posted:I’m on episode 25 of 0079 and I wish I watched the old show back when Toonami was airing it because god drat I love it. Then you could enjoy the gut punch the rest of us got when they pulled the show off the air with only 3 or 4 episodes left. Shinjobi posted:Victory was just miserable in a way I didn't think a Gundam show could manage, but I enjoyed watching it despite that. Hell, if anything, it made going to Turn A even better. Victory left me cold and sad, Turn A gave me a blanket and told me everything was gonna be okay. Speaking of gut punches That last scene in Turn-A with Sochi left me feeling worse then anything Victory offered Vord fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 16:46
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