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During a commercial, my wife said "it will be like [b]Family of Blood[/b" and I said "yeah, watch it something like a fob watch behind the glass." We were both kinda right? My theory - the First Doctor regenerated into the Second Doctor at the end of The Tenth Planet, which was the first appearance of? Anyone like to guess? Yep. The Cybermen. I'm willing to bet that somehow this "Lone Cyberman" is messing with the Doctor's timeline, or the Cybermen have messed with the temporal structure of the universe enough to change things that the Doctor's first regeneration was into Ruth, who because of the Cybermen is a more ruthless, pragmatic Doctor, one who wouldn't have come up with something like a sonic screwdriver when she could come up with a weapon instead. Of course, I got spoiled on the revelation that Ruth was the Doctor, or at least a Time Lord, when someone on Twitter posted, "Well, they finally did it. The Doctor is officially a black woman. The "woke" brigade has won."
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Jan 27, 2020 12:55
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Assuming a modicum of competency on the part of the writers, it would be difficult to reconcile Ruth with being an Official pre-Hartnell Regeneration. Whittaker's definitely had a couple of lines thus far referencing that being a woman is a different experience for her, and while there was that teasing line from Missy in the Dalek two-parter about the Doctor having once been a little girl, Chibnall has largely ignored the Moffat era altogether so that's unlikely to come into play. So I think time shenanigans or parallel universes are pretty likely the cause here. You could read a few lines in Orphan 55 as setup for the idea of alternate timelines, but having watched Spyfall I don't think Chibnall is a good enough writer to do that on purpose.CobiWann posted:I'm willing to bet that somehow this "Lone Cyberman" is messing with the Doctor's timeline, or the Cybermen have messed with the temporal structure of the universe enough to change things that the Doctor's first regeneration was into Ruth, who because of the Cybermen is a more ruthless, pragmatic Doctor, one who wouldn't have come up with something like a sonic screwdriver when she could come up with a weapon instead. This is probably basically it, but I really really hope the Lone Cyberman is never mentioned again after Captain Jack's sidequest dialogue and it's a complete red herring. If this is the case, I will retroactively award Chibnall the title of Greatest Showrunner.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:29
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I accidentally got spoiled on both Jack and Ruth being the Doctor, and I'm so annoyed because they would have been great surprises.CommonShore posted:THAT WAS loving AWEOMSE IT WAS SUCH A MESS OF WEIRD poo poo I LOVE IT Android Blues posted:Chibnall era is just RTD era in a hi def hat I agree with both of these in relation to this episode, even putting aside the Jack appearance it felt like the RTD era in the best possible way. I don't see them doing another War Doctor style story, and so introducing Doctor Ruth makes me wonder if the destruction of Gallifrey has also been introduced to be a bit misleading, where it initially seems like a rerun of the whole Last Of The Time Lords era but is now going to swing in a completely different direction. Maybe whatever the Master did to Gallifrey fundamentally broke time, or Gallifrey dying is a symptom of that and reality is splintering. I would be totally fine if the rest of the season just got increasingly batshit with new Doctors from all these alternate possibilities being introduced in each episode at a rapidly increasing pace.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:45
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Could the alternative doctor that went to alternate universe with Rose regenerate? Not that I think it would be that.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:52
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Allow me to also chime in with a  I literally went gently caress out loud when Jack appeared and then paused the episode to go tell all my buddies who I know cared about the show back then but had wandered away from it since. I then spent the rest of the episode going ".... R for Rani? R for Romana? R for........ River???" as it became obvious this was a time lord. I think it's pretty clear it's an alternate Doctor, there's too many differences for it to be some sort of unknown previous regeneration. If the timeless child/destroyed gallifrey stuff is an excuse for weird timeline poo poo to happen all season then I'm all for it. That's what weird mysterious metaplot stuff should be for: facilitating cool stuff happening in episodes. Not just being a word that repeats and then at the end of the season we find out what that word means and then that's that.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:55
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Marmaduke! posted:Could the alternative doctor that went to alternate universe with Rose regenerate? Not that I think it would be that. Nope Senor Tron posted:I would be totally fine if the rest of the season just got increasingly batshit with new Doctors from all these alternate possibilities being introduced in each episode at a rapidly increasing pace. After this aggressive, violent alt-Doctor the next alt-Doctor should be from a timeline where the Doctor became extremely chill and easy going and doesn't want to do very much
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Jan 27, 2020 13:56
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marktheando posted:
A Doctor who is strictly observing and sticks by non-interference entirely would be interesting to see as a contrast.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:27
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Marmaduke! posted:Could the alternative doctor that went to alternate universe with Rose regenerate? Not that I think it would be that. I don't think so, but after thinking about it I've landed on a not-dissimilar conclusion. I think this is the actual Doctor from the Cybus universe. Not the human Doctor that went off with Rose, but that universe's proper Doctor from Gallifrey, displaced dimensionally apparently without full knowledge of it. I'm actually basing this not on the actual events, but more on the fact that the entire episode was just Russell T. Davies As Hell, so why wouldn't the explanation for this one ALSO be Russell T. Davies As Hell? We've even got foreshadowing of a lone Cyberman; there's like six places a Cyberman could be from, but that's definitely one of them. I think any theory--but especially any alt-universe theory--has to grapple with Lady Gat, though. It's not too hard to buy an alternate universe's Doctor falling into 'our' dimension, since we've seen our Doctor do it several times. But Lady Gat isn't in the same position; she clearly has much more freedom to move and act, and yet is still absolutely certain of her mission and her place in the universe. If she'd also travelled across dimensions she'd either have done it intentionally (and so would've brought it up, probably to Lee), or somehow also done it accidentally but have at some point figured it out (and so probably still would've brought it up, probably to one/both of the Doctors). She's surprised that our Doctor saw Gallifrey in ruins, but other than that, she seems to know where she is.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:31
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The thing with Ruth being a "violent alt doctor" is that the whole weapon backfire trap thing was used in another episode, and though I can't remember which episode, I'm 99% sure that Tenant or Smith used the exact same line "I begged him not to do it" afterwards. Or I'm crazy. But I'm sure I've seen it before.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:59
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It's how Jodie got rid of Tim Shaw the first time.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:02
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TinTower posted:It's how Jodie got rid of Tim Shaw the first time. Right that's it. Coffee hasn't kicked in yet. So like... perhaps not such a "nonviolent" variation.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:04
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Yeah this Doctor seems actually about as nonviolent as our usual one, what with the whole "the Doctor doesn't use weapons" "I know" exchange, but she's certainly more... militaristic? Less cheerful. Reads more to me like she may have split off around 8 rather than at a much earlier regeneration.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:18
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CobiWann posted:"Well, they finally did it. The Doctor is officially a black woman. The "woke" brigade has won." Cleary done to piss people off, which is fine with me. "Oh, you don't like that The Doctor can be a woman... well, how about..."
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Jan 27, 2020 15:20
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Organza Quiz posted:Yeah this Doctor seems actually about as nonviolent as our usual one, what with the whole "the Doctor doesn't use weapons" "I know" exchange, but she's certainly more... militaristic? Less cheerful. Reads more to me like she may have split off around 8 rather than at a much earlier regeneration. Which would actually, in its weird way, track with the timeline Ruth gave. She says she left the lighthouse in December of 98; if we give Eight the same sort of presumed life the other Doctors get, where they keep returning to the present day at the time of airing, that'd be a couple years into his life. Of course, that doesn't fit cleanly either; Eight definitely knew what a sonic screwdriver was, and he had a very specific style for his TARDIS.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:31
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Ah right yes so she must have split off before two then, I forgot that's why everyone was saying that. Still she seems like a time-war-ish Doctor rather than a young one.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:42
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I'm still very much in the stage of episode digestion. There was a whole lot of set up for future payoffs (hopefully), some fan service, and...'s about it, but I felt entertained at the end of it so is that simple metric enough to call it a good episode or nah? E: The Ruthless Doctor's cuffs are different colours - I didn't notice while watching the episode proper but they are. Very Sixy. VivaLa Eeveelution fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 16:10
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VivaLa Eeveelution posted:E: The Ruthless Doctor's cuffs are different colours - I didn't notice while watching the episode proper but they are. Very Sixy. I dug her style at the end. My theory with no evidence to back it up is all Time Lord's are all offshoots of one single being.... the Timeless Child. I don't even know if I want that to be what happens but that is my theory.
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Jan 27, 2020 16:18
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York_M_Chan posted:I dug her style at the end. I...would actually be really down with that, honestly. The Time Lords being this singular mega-organism, replicating and coexisting via time fuckery.
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Jan 27, 2020 16:21
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Organza Quiz posted:Yeah this Doctor seems actually about as nonviolent as our usual one, what with the whole "the Doctor doesn't use weapons" "I know" exchange, but she's certainly more... militaristic? Less cheerful. Reads more to me like she may have split off around 8 rather than at a much earlier regeneration. Ripping off the Judoon's horn was a bit much though.
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Jan 27, 2020 16:29
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Her not recognising the Doctor's sonic on sight doesn't necessarily mean she's never seen or had one, the screwdriver Thirteen has is a much more complicated piece of tech than Two's (which was literally just a screwdriver) or even Five's. Also, after the Doctor explains what it is, doesn't Ruth just say she doesn't need one (implying that she does know what sonic screwdrivers are)?marktheando posted:Ripping off the Judoon's horn was a bit much though. Yeah, I really didn't like that either.
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Jan 27, 2020 16:39
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HD DAD posted:I...would actually be really down with that, honestly. The Time Lords being this singular mega-organism, replicating and coexisting via time fuckery. So what you’re saying is... LOOMS
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Jan 27, 2020 17:55
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I don't even know what the gently caress is going on.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:56
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Isn’t it great?  I feel like Doctor Who is best when you’re as perplexed as the Doctor, and you’re not actually waiting for them to catch up because it’s really obvious what’s going on. Stuff like digging up the TARDIS and her expression of utter ‘what in the actual gently caress’ is amazing.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:01
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I swear to god if this is LOOMS I will burn this thread down.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:02
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Feels like alternate dimensions to me. That's the vibe I've been getting from the premiere with the Kasavin who apparently were not of this world. I wonder if that means the Master is some sort of alt-Master who maybe has been fighting with alt-Doctor and thought that Thirteen was some regeneration of last night's Jo Doctor. It's especially more funny the news came out that Jodie would be around for another year right before a new Doctor episode.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:17
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Hmm, an Alt Master would help people angry about Missy's redemption being tossed. NuDoc's TARDIS really made Thirteen's stand out as even worse though.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:24
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The console room still looks very uncomfortable. When they’re sitting on those stairs, it almost feels painful.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:26
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I really enjoyed Jack's meeting of the companions. I felt there was some misdirect when he first picks up Graham, like he might have been intending to pick up Ruth's partner, but no, he was looking for the Doctor and, whoops, it's not Graham. Then he picks up the other two and tries to play three guessing game faster. "You said 'she' so not him but her" motioning from Ryan to Yaz because he's definitely got out this time and them wordlessly telling him no.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:29
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The_Doctor posted:The console room still looks very uncomfortable. When they’re sitting on those stairs, it almost feels painful. I hate everything about it. Jodie deserves so much better. Doctor Ruth's may have just been a reused set and some lights but it outshines Thirteen's in every way.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:29
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The design of Jodie's Tardis, "Hey - salt lamps are cool, right?"
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Jan 27, 2020 19:03
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Rhyno posted:I hate everything about it. Jodie deserves so much better. Doctor Ruth's may have just been a reused set and some lights but it outshines Thirteen's in every way. They know its poo poo. They did a YouTube video where the new head production designer was talking about the changes they made to it this year and its entire tone was "gotta polish this turd."
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Jan 27, 2020 19:04
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Rhyno posted:I swear to god if this is LOOMS I will burn this thread down. Andy Cartmel: [chanting] looms, looms- This thread: looms, LOOMS Chibnall: [pounding on Rhyno’s head] LOOMS, LOOMS, LOOMS!
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Jan 27, 2020 19:26
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Post-2005 Doctor Who has always been happy to play fast and loose with continuity. Having nearly 15 years worth of the revival has, I think, made it so new writers are unlikely to be familiar with anything prior to Eccleston's run. The Time War was pretty inspired on Davies' part as a way to connect the series with the old while making it completely open to fresh ideas. Personally, I think bringing the Time Lords and Gallifrey back was always a bad idea for the very same reasons they got worse every time they appeared in the original series. Moffat's machinations with them have always displeased me. From Clara's interaction with child Doc in Listen to making the most feared monster in Time Lord history (Rassilon) into a weak old man. I don't know how familiar Chibnall is with the show's past. If Ruth is made out to be pre-Hartnell, it goes counter to a lot of onscreen stuff we've seen in both the classic and even revival. At the very least, the Tardis didn't get stuck in the police box form until the 2nd episode in 1963. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpo_BgM8Ozw The whole dark mystery at the heart of Time Lord society that caused the Master to lose it will have to be something different because we know they were right bastards responsible for thousands of abominations against other races. And, honestly, someone needs to get the memo that the Doctor isn't Batman. The whole "I never would" anti-violence thing is kind of bull when you look at the sum of the Doctor's on-screen life. Obligatory (NSFW language): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNuHV-iLBRw Ruth would totally have the 3rd Doctor's approval for her martial arts takedowns. And the 7th Doc would have totally rigged that gun.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:27
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SimplyCosmic posted:I don't know how familiar Chibnall is with the show's past. He is very, very familiar with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCe3owO7wY
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Jan 27, 2020 19:39
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SimplyCosmic posted:Ruth would totally have the 3rd Doctor's approval for her martial arts takedowns. 3 would never mutilate someone for fun
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Jan 27, 2020 19:41
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I will say, as someone who loves Jodie but didn't care for most of last season and little of this season so far, this was her first adventure that felt like a classic Who story. But what a waste of Jack!
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Jan 27, 2020 19:45
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marktheando posted:3 would never mutilate someone for fun Rewatching that scene, Ruth didn't do that for fun, she did it for human revenge. Keep in mind that she wasn't the Doctor at that point. Clearly she and Lee had set up a safety protocol in which a trigger phrase could unlock combat instincts for protection. But it seems clear to me that she's still running on human emotion, and the Judoon leader had just shown her video of her husband being murdered.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:25
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Andy Cartmel: [chanting] looms, looms-
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Jan 27, 2020 21:43
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We're all loving the looms idea since we've been waiting for it for ~30 years, but, would The Master really be so pissed off about it? Plus you'd think they'd all be aware of that, if not as a child than definitely as an adult. I get the feeling there was some major war pre-Hartnell, just a feeling since the guy was proud enough to want to keep his medal. The only one mentioned ever was against the vampires, and I can't remember if that's a book-only thing. Maybe the Time Lords stole time travel tech from whomever they fought against, so being "Lords of Time" and such a big deal could be a story written by the victors. Again, why get so mad about it though, enough to destroy Gallifrey? Does the Master being dressed and exhibiting mannerisms of Hartnell in Spyfall Pt. 2 mean anything? That was too deliberate to not be meaningless. I thought for a moment could they be from a parallel universe AND flipped morally, taking each other's name relative to here, but that seems too convoluted and the payoff would be meh since we're dealing with two previously unknown actors. Parallel universe also seems wrong since Gat and Ruth and Ruth's husband (and arguably Jack) all would have to have been transported here - they all act like nothing was wrong. Is there any spot where our Doc could instead have slipped into their universe? She fell out of the TARDIS, somehow survived (assume that was due to the regen being so new still, like what allowed Tenant to regrow his hand). Could really dig deeper and have a timeline split be due to the timey-wimey stuff from Capaldi's last episode, but new producers seem (rightfully) to want to not mess with the previous one's toys willy-nilly. Could be Ruth is from season 6B since that's all we don't know of, and SmithDoc was mistaken in thinking Tenant's vanity regen counted as a full one, but then why did she not know what the sonic was? No matter how I riff on this nothing seems like a hint to what's going on. It's terrific! This season's surprises have been excellent, between the Master reveal and this episode, I've been at the edge of my seat with my jaw dropped for the first times in years.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:05
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One thing I'm wondering is if our Doctor has actually been in the wrong timeline this whole time. When she first arrives, she falls out of the TARDIS which then disappears. Maybe that event put her into this timeline where the doctor is in hiding. That could explain that when she is called in by MI6, they don't know what she looks like, maybe because she's been gone for a while. I was trying to grasp how Ruth Doctor, Lee, and Gat could all be in an alternate timeline together. But it makes more sense if the Doctor is the one that is in the wrong time. Though, that would mean that the three companions are also aLtErNAtE.
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Jan 27, 2020 22:10
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