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The speciesism in the empire is barely alluded to in the films yeah, almost all of it comes from the EU, Leia hitting out with the walking carpet bit is the only real explicit example of it that I can think of from the films, and even then, the Wookiee slavery isn’t even obvious, it could well be POWs that we’re given the idea of towards the end of episode 3, and I’ll be honest that I’m completely forgetting how or if they handled this in Solo. The all human imperial crews is definitely more of a general subtext alluding to it.
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Jan 27, 2020 13:48
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Sanitary Naptime posted:The speciesism in the empire is barely alluded to in the films yeah, almost all of it comes from the EU, Leia hitting out with the walking carpet bit is the only real explicit example of it that I can think of from the films, and even then, the Wookiee slavery isn’t even obvious, it could well be POWs that we’re given the idea of towards the end of episode 3, and I’ll be honest that I’m completely forgetting how or if they handled this in Solo. That "Where are you taking this... thing?" line from the guard on the Death Star is pretty telling too. TBH it's not really even that subtle, the Empire are Space Nazis right down to the uniforms and wonder-weapons. It's more specifically pointed out in the final battle in Return Of The Jedi, where the Rebels are explicitly shown to be a multi-species alliance with the battle commanded by a non-human, and of course the Viet Cong Furry Division are the ones wot won it. (Apologies if this is all pointed out in the pod, I've not had a chance to listen to it yet)
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Jan 27, 2020 14:09
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OTOH there are more fish people than black people in ROTJ
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Jan 27, 2020 14:18
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Sanitary Naptime posted:I’ll be honest that I’m completely forgetting how or if they handled this in Solo.  #releasethelordandmillercut
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Jan 27, 2020 14:19
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Pilchenstein posted:Solo is really weird about it. The impression I get is that Lord and Miller really wanted to draw attention to the way Star Wars views slavery as perfectly fine (I suspect that's what got them fired) and Richie Cunningham couldn't do enough reshoots to remove it all, so you're left with a film where there's a huge amount of slavery and nobody really comments on it except to view the slave uprising the droid starts as a massive inconvenience I don't recall any "slavery is fine" subtext? Do you mean Watto? I suppose ive not seen the prequels in a long time. Edit: it's probably Watto. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 14:25
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Aramoro posted:The only way to get a political party to take up your cause is for it to be a cause in the first place. Very very few activist ideas came from within a party, mostly they came from external influence on a party. The Brexit campaign was political from the start, it was very clearly affiliated,albeit to factions rather than whole parties, one way or the other. In Scotland at least. I mean I think it's a very good argument for the "campaign on issue semi-indepdendently with the hope of getting it taken up by the labour party electorally" rather than "do a revolution to get what you want". Especially as it suggests that the electoral parties are likely to take up your causes if at all possible, so it limits your ability to posit a lot of things as purely revolutionary if they can possibly be co-opted by electoral politicians?
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Jan 27, 2020 14:26
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MikeCrotch posted:OTOH there are more fish people than black people in ROTJ
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Jan 27, 2020 14:27
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BizarroAzrael posted:I don't recall any "slavery is fine" subtext? Do you mean Watto? I suppose ive not seen the prequels in a long time. Qui-Gon discovers that Anikan and Shmi are lifelong slaves to Watto. His reaction to this is to try and negotiate to buy them. You could maybe make a case that they were incognito, and that getting Anakin and getting out was more important than freeing slaves, but then don't loving do anything about between movies. Shmi ends up being bought by Lars, who frees and marries her, which is...yikes. The Droids are heavily coded as slaves - bought and sold, fitted with restraining bolts, Jabba tortures them if they misbehave etc and everybody is totally fine with it.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:29
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Also the whole clone army thing. The basic battle droids might (might) be sub-sapient but I don't think the clones are.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:30
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Probably the most important matter of representation in Rise us that the black guy got sidelined, his relationship with the Asian woman disappeared, and the Latino was a drug dealer even though it doesn't fit his backstory. Poe and especially Finn got done dirty, and it sounds like Boyega and Issac don't want to return, so it's all just broke forever. Edit; droids is fascinating too! I've seen sources say the Republic treats them as sentient but big citations needed there. They could have acknowledged the vital role of droids in the originals by making Threepio a senator to represent them or something, but then it's still weird to have what are essentially people rolling of a factory line. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 14:31
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Maybe they should have written something for Finn and Poe to do after the first movie
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Jan 27, 2020 14:36
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That "Where are you taking this... thing?" line from the guard on the Death Star is pretty telling too. TBH it's not really even that subtle, the Empire are Space Nazis right down to the uniforms and wonder-weapons. Part of the Specisim/Racisim of the Empire (at least in the first film) can (in the real world) be put down to budget constraints. (They had one pair of boots for Grand Moff Tarken, but they didn't fit Peter Cushing. So he shot all his scenes wearing slippers. That's why he's never shown with his boots being visible. ) The film wanted to be set in a distant galaxy and have all these fantastic aliens in it. And you get that on Taotinee. But didn't have enough budget to put aliens in Imperial Uniforms or Rebel ones. (The Rebel Alliance in IV is almost all white men. Hell almost all the ones present in the awards ceremony are just a background painting.) At the same time, Lucas had the broad strokes of the Universes back story laid out in his head. And it was always clear that the Empire were space Nazi's. So if you are making them space Nazi's, it's likely that they will be racist/specist as well. It's only in Empire and RoTJ that the budget improves to allow there being aliens in this galaxy wide rebel alliance. (Fun fact they shot scenes of female pilots taking part in the second attack on the Death Star. They all got cut, then re-used in The Force Awakens for the attack on Star Killer Base.) In the Star Wars Universe, as far as the Empire is concerned aliens are bounty hunters or unique exceptions like Grand Admiral Thrawn. The aliens who wear Imperial uniforms are most likely Imperial Inquisitiors and those are "you have force powers and are evil. We can't call you Sith, but you get a second class evil force user badge." Basically the Empire sucks, Rebels 4 Life. And the droid slavery thing is real, but no one seems to do anything about it. Also most of the early background stuff for Star Wars (including the Emperor going from the Emperor to being named Emperor Palpatine.) All came from the Star Wars RPG done by West End Games. So in a sense the Star Wars universe was expanded by being the work of multiple people and not a single auteur. The Question IRL fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 14:37
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If you watch the prequels there's a definite weird tone of people treating the droids like they're basically not there.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:39
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MikeCrotch posted:Maybe they should have written something for Finn and Poe to do after the first movie I quite liked Finn and the casino planet in TLJ, Poe might have had his character broken a bit, although he was senior enough he should have just been taken into Hondo's confidence.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:40
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Guavanaut posted:Depends, do Jedi also poo poo in their robes and use the Force to deal with it? I never have. (Official Jedi Knight 2001 census)
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Jan 27, 2020 14:43
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That "Where are you taking this... thing?" line from the guard on the Death Star is pretty telling too. TBH it's not really even that subtle, the Empire are Space Nazis right down to the uniforms and wonder-weapons. My bad, I forgot about that bit, my brain is full mush today. The actual subtext of the diverse group vs the non diverse group in return of the Jedi wasn’t directly touched on in the pod, although I think James has a real good bit about the usefulness of the narrative that will fit in to very nicely. E: nobody has yelled at me for my blue labour interpretation of Star Wars yet
Sanitary Naptime fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 14:50
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BizarroAzrael posted:I don't recall any "slavery is fine" subtext? Do you mean Watto? I suppose ive not seen the prequels in a long time. The Question IRL posted:In the Star Wars Universe, as far as the Empire is concerned aliens are bounty hunters or unique exceptions like Grand Admiral Thrawn.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:10
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Yeah, one of the big things in my still-nascent How We View Evil essay is that Star Wars explicitly condones slavery, and the concepts of slaves rising against their owners is treated not morally neutrally, but as a vehicle for comedy (L3-37's plotline in Solo...).
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Jan 27, 2020 15:12
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Sorry there is a robot called leet?
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Jan 27, 2020 15:13
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OwlFancier posted:Sorry there is a robot called leet?
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Jan 27, 2020 15:16
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I feel like I'm going to turn into like, the HP Lovecraft of pop culture, with everything I learn about things produced this century that aren't videogames making me more and more insane and arbitrarily reactionary.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:22
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What will you name your cat?  Pilchenstein posted:Admiral Blueman Goodateverything
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Jan 27, 2020 15:24
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Guavanaut posted:What will you name your cat? Chumtoad. It's loving weird seeing the CS 1.6 generation being old enough to have an influence on pop culture. Though I do appreciate the resurgence of half life in the popular meme consciousness because half life sound effect edits are great.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:24
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, one of the big things in my still-nascent How We View Evil essay is that Star Wars explicitly condones slavery, and the concepts of slaves rising against their owners is treated not morally neutrally, but as a vehicle for comedy (L3-37's plotline in Solo...). Or maybe I've been listening to too much trashfuture.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:28
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OwlFancier posted:If you watch the prequels there's a definite weird tone of people treating the droids like they're basically not there. 
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Jan 27, 2020 15:29
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Flipswitch posted:I mean they are CGI so the actors can't even see or hear them. I thought the protocol droids were still people in suits?
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Jan 27, 2020 15:30
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There was definitely a time in my life I would have cared this much about the silly space fantasy films but I'm very glad it is behind me now. So I can focus my attention to more important things. Like wrestling.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:31
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forkboy84 posted:There was definitely a time in my life I would have cared this much about the silly space fantasy films but I'm very glad it is behind me now. John Cena hits a man with a folding chair and it makes the crowbar noise from half life .flv
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Jan 27, 2020 15:33
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anyone wanna mail me some brexit coins? I'll trade them for some delicious Swedish salty "licorice"
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Jan 27, 2020 15:33
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OwlFancier posted:I thought the protocol droids were still people in suits? Time to watch the RLM reviews of the prequels again to find out!
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Jan 27, 2020 15:34
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:anyone wanna mail me some brexit coins? I'll trade them for some delicious Swedish salty "licorice"
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Jan 27, 2020 15:35
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OwlFancier posted:John Cena hits a man with a folding chair and it makes the crowbar noise from half life .flv See? It's art.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:39
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OwlFancier posted:I feel like I'm going to turn into like, the HP Lovecraft of pop culture, with everything I learn about things produced this century that aren't videogames making me more and more insane and arbitrarily reactionary. Do you have a level of self hatred to marry someone who embodies a thing you hate? Lovecraft hated the Jews, but married a Jewish woman. Then again, he was so racist he was considered racist by the standards of the 1920's! as far as he was concerned, the GERMANS were a little to far east to be considered white.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:41
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Flipswitch posted:I mean they are CGI so the actors can't even see or hear them. Virtually all of the droids in Star Wars with the exception of the prequel trilogy have been practical and on-set (and even for those, R2 and 3PO were mostly practical except in the very obvious shots where they, like, fly or whatever). Recently, CGI-enhanced, (Pheobe Waller-Bridge wore a weird hybrid of droid parts and greenscreen suit) but they're mostly not acting opposite tennis balls like in the Hobbit. The reason droids are ignored and treated like chattel is most likely because nobody ever really considered the implications of them being sapient beings that were treated like chattel when writing the OT, because talking about restraining blts and routine memory wipes sounded cool and sci-fi, and that attitude pervaded. The SW universe is pretty horrifying if you actually extrapolate its implications into the real world effects they would have. Like, the FO loving kidnaps children and brainwashes them into armoured stormtroopers, then sends them back out to kill their families... thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 15:42
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Grey Hunter posted:Do you have a level of self hatred to marry someone who embodies a thing you hate? By that logic I'd have to marry a nazi film journalist. So, uh, carl benjamin.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:43
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Heh
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Jan 27, 2020 15:46
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This is all funny until someone buys something for 1,99 and finds themselves down 200
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Jan 27, 2020 15:50
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Tesseraction posted:This is all funny until someone buys something for 1,99 and finds themselves down 200 " [...], but when the british PM was, to all appearances, lying flat on the table with wallet splayed open, the crack team of British para-bureaucrats changed Mr. Barnier's Windows region settings into "French (Switzerland)", "
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Jan 27, 2020 15:59
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:" [...], but when the british PM was, to all appearances, lying flat on the table with wallet splayed open, the crack team of British para-bureaucrats changed Mr. Barnier's Windows region settings into "French (Switzerland)", " only to find it was the rebate amount per month during the transition period
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Jan 27, 2020 16:01
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Using commas in numerical notation just seems extremely weird to me. It just looks like a linguistic element, not a mathematical one. It'd be like drawing a division sign with commas instead of dots. Actually, gently caress it, let's have both the division and the division semicolon.
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Jan 27, 2020 16:03
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