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Herstory Begins Now posted:On the one hand, yeah maybe you're right. On the other hand: imagine that they continue handling everything in literally the worst way possible and Trump sabotages his own defense even more and we get another damaging leak or two. Because that's entirely more likely than the best or even not-bad case scenario for Trump rn That's pretty much it. It has always been obvious they were wanting to slam this thing through to avoid the bombs that are being leveled right now. Any cover that the GOP had is now over so they will have to at the least call Bolton now. If Bolton starts naming names like it certainly seems like he will then the doors are blown completely off. Let's say, as the book is said to have, him state Pompeo, Mulvaney and Barr at least were in on the deal. Things start getting even uglier there as privilege would go out the window quickly. Who knows how the White House would fight to keep any of the three from testifying. And when/if they would testify how would they behave? Telling the truth effectively ends Trump, they could theoretically plead the fifth but that again is basically an admission of guilt. We are officially walking into the nightmare scenario for the GOP Senators. They are now painted into a corner and while there is loyalty for Trump I don't see them all falling on the sword to save the guy. I bet they are wishing he would be like Nixon and resign but we all know that won't happen.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:19
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I expect tearful baby rage a la kavanaugh/Graham from pompeo and barr
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Jan 27, 2020 17:24
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https://twitter.com/VicToensing/status/1221812164660539397 Jesus
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Jan 27, 2020 17:27
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I'm actually kind of to the point with this that while I'd prefer to see him removed, there is no bad result possible from the proceedings. More than half the nation wants him removed. The first primary states for dems are next week. Him getting acquitted seems almost better from a voted turnout standpoint, maybe? But him getting removed would be an incredible victory. It's sort of how I feel when I play fortnite and get three kills right off the drop, like, ok, this game was a success already even if I don't get the win.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:29
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Majority of country wants trump impeached & removed; he somehow wins reelection anyway
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Jan 27, 2020 17:31
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empty whippet box posted:I'm actually kind of to the point with this that while I'd prefer to see him removed, there is no bad result possible from the proceedings. More than half the nation wants him removed. The first primary states for dems are next week. Him getting acquitted seems almost better from a voted turnout standpoint, maybe? But him getting removed would be an incredible victory. It's sort of how I feel when I play fortnite and get three kills right off the drop, like, ok, this game was a success already even if I don't get the win. I agree but also I'm not a vulnerable demographic or likely to suffer consequences I want whatever result will guarantee this poo poo never happens again. Maximize damage against those that sold out the country for their own power for the longest period of time
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Jan 27, 2020 17:32
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Of course she is going to say this, hasn't Parnas implicated her and DiGenova in the crimes?
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Jan 27, 2020 17:34
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Djarum posted:That's pretty much it. It has always been obvious they were wanting to slam this thing through to avoid the bombs that are being leveled right now. Any cover that the GOP had is now over so they will have to at the least call Bolton now. If Bolton starts naming names like it certainly seems like he will then the doors are blown completely off. Let's say, as the book is said to have, him state Pompeo, Mulvaney and Barr at least were in on the deal. Things start getting even uglier there as privilege would go out the window quickly. Who knows how the White House would fight to keep any of the three from testifying. And when/if they would testify how would they behave? Telling the truth effectively ends Trump, they could theoretically plead the fifth but that again is basically an admission of guilt. Yeah, shits gonna keep leaking and Bolton is almost certainly gonna get called and he will probably name names. Than idk what will happen. He might get removed if only because the gop realizes it’s the least worse option.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:36
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Love the implication that "words" can never constitute "conduct" even if the rest of that drivel was internally consistent/coherent/relevant.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:38
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Wasn't the aid only released once his scheme was uncovered?
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Jan 27, 2020 17:42
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Yes, conspiracy to commit a crime isnt a thing at all. Just tell all those brown people that were arrested for conspiracy to commit terrorism.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:44
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Scooter_McCabe posted:Yeah pretty sure it goes witnesses followed by removal. Things are lining up nicely for the first US president to go to jail. Don't get your hopes up buddy.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:44
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Faustian Bargain posted:Wasn't the aid only released once his scheme was uncovered? Yes. The reports coming out about it is what motivated them to release it. Had that not happened, Ukraine would have likely announced the investigation, probably live on like CNN or whatever they wanted, and the aid would have been released.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:44
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She's...a lawyer. 
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Jan 27, 2020 17:44
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDona...790577446019072
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Jan 27, 2020 17:45
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Sure, I pointed a gun at the teller and demanded cash or I would shoot. But I never made it out of the building with the cash, therefore there was no robbery.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:45
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Can Trump still try to block Bolton from testifying by claiming executive privilege or is that off the table during an impeachment trial?
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Jan 27, 2020 17:47
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oxsnard posted:Amazing. I don't know how the GOP gets around not calling witnesses now. They'll still try "We make the rules. gently caress you."
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Jan 27, 2020 17:47
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:"We make the rules. gently caress you." This is always the answer. Fatz posted:Can Trump still try to block Bolton from testifying by claiming executive privilege or is that off the table during an impeachment trial? He can and will.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:47
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Yeah, shits gonna keep leaking and Bolton is almost certainly gonna get called and he will probably name names. Than idk what will happen. He might get removed if only because the gop realizes it’s the least worse option. At this point I think the GOP is pretty much dialed in on the short-term because drat near half of them will be dead/out of office before the long-term impact hits. Eventually leaks and FOIAs will air most of the evidence and a probable next-POTUS order can declassify/release the rest. But why would Grassley/McConnell/Collins/etc care about something 4-8 years from now. Not too mention the GOP banking on all the courts and regulation changes setting them up regardless of the Trump fallout.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:48
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Yeah, shits gonna keep leaking and Bolton is almost certainly gonna get called and he will probably name names. Than idk what will happen. He might get removed if only because the gop realizes it’s the least worse option. I am still not convinced he will actually be removed. I do wonder if GOP leadership would go to Trump and tell him he needs to resign or they will remove him what he would do. I assume he would call their bluff because of course he would.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:50
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Someone tell Trump that if he demands for witnesses to prove his innocence and they all sing of his crimes like canaries and he not only gets removed from office and imprisoned, it would probably be the highest ratings TV has ever had.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:56
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Djarum posted:I am still not convinced he will actually be removed. I do wonder if GOP leadership would go to Trump and tell him he needs to resign or they will remove him what he would do. I assume he would call their bluff because of course he would. They won't do this more because of the resulting tantrum and attempts to hire russian mafioso types to murder whoever asked him that, but holy poo poo would it be funny to watch. Especially the resulting tweetstorm where he out of nowhere, apropos of nothing, accuses whatever rube was dumb enough to be the one to go suggest it to him of treason and says they should be impeached and removed from office.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:57
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empty whippet box posted:As much as I'd like you to be correct, I really don't think you should set yourself up for disappointment like this. The republicans are not under any circumstances going to remove Trump. It literally doesn't matter what we see or hear. All this will just make it worse for them electorally after they acquit Trump but save yourself the anguish and don't let yourself hope that republicans will do anything approaching the right thing, ever. this. the republican party is devoid of any redeeming quality. They only care about power which comes from money which comes from doing the bidding of the elites. I don't think you are an elite. they aren't going to do what you want.
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Jan 27, 2020 17:58
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Retro42 posted:At this point I think the GOP is pretty much dialed in on the short-term because drat near half of them will be dead/out of office before the long-term impact hits. Eventually leaks and FOIAs will air most of the evidence and a probable next-POTUS order can declassify/release the rest. But why would Grassley/McConnell/Collins/etc care about something 4-8 years from now. Those ghouls are going to grasp to power as long as they are breathing. A big part of what makes McConnell such a piece of poo poo is he always covers his own rear end first. The push to pack the courts I have a feeling will be undone with a mixture of expanding the courts and as it is common knowledge there aren't many conservative judges because they tend to be wildly unqualified and/or complete wackjobs. Look at many of the unqualified idiots put on the bench to get removed in the oncoming years. If the Democrats get both the House and Senate you will likely see a ton of bills pushed through to undo much of what Trump has done and McConnell has sat on his hands about. Unlike the Executive Orders like Trump has used nearly exclusively, once something is signed into law it is EXTREMELY hard to undo it. There is a saying in American politics: it is easy to pass a law, it is impossible to remove one.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:01
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Fatz posted:Can Trump still try to block Bolton from testifying by claiming executive privilege or is that off the table during an impeachment trial? They can invoke executive privilege, but with Bolton publishing a book and all the evidence of crimes it will be hard to defend and enforce with any logical consistency So I'll be interested to see how Roberts ratfucks it. In reality I expect them to do all the testimony behind classified closed doors and try to bury it that way
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Jan 27, 2020 18:10
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Framboise posted:Someone tell Trump that if he demands for witnesses to prove his innocence and they all sing of his crimes like canaries and he not only gets removed from office and imprisoned, it would probably be the highest ratings TV has ever had. We should remember that nothing Trump has done or probably will do will be close to as heinous as the Bush Iraq War and no one went to jail over that.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:11
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Fatz posted:Can Trump still try to block Bolton from testifying by claiming executive privilege or is that off the table during an impeachment trial? the actual answer is "it's complicated" because it depends what's been waived (practically everything Bolton would testify about has already been waived), what Roberts is willing to do, etc. it's certain that it won't work, but the question is how long it would take to dispense with
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Jan 27, 2020 18:12
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mcmagic posted:He can and will. IANAL, but I heard somewhere that because he is no longer part of the executive, he cannot be prevented from testifying. Is this not true?
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Jan 27, 2020 18:13
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LeeMajors posted:IANAL, but I heard somewhere that because he is no longer part of the executive, he cannot be prevented from testifying. Is this not true? you're confusing it with "he can't be ordered to not show up" like employees were told they were not allowed to testify
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Jan 27, 2020 18:14
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I saw an article today that was some fan fic about John Roberts forcing there to be witnesses or something moronic like that... I needed a good laugh to start the work week.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:14
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mcmagic posted:We should remember that nothing Trump has done or probably will do will be close to as heinous as the Bush Iraq War and no one went to jail over that. Playing Crime Olympics is a waste of breath, but leaving Kurdish allies behind in the face of ethnic cleansing and genocidal separation of immigrant families at the border, while not of the scale of Bush's war crimes, are themselves heinous acts that we can only hope won't go unpunished They will, I know
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Jan 27, 2020 18:15
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mcmagic posted:I saw an article today that was some fan fic about John Roberts forcing there to be witnesses or something moronic like that... I needed a good laugh to start the work week. did this post contribute anything whatsoever to this thread, mcmagic? you don't need to performatively tell us how little you care, i think literally everyone in dnd knows by now
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Jan 27, 2020 18:16
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eke out posted:did this post contribute anything whatsoever to this thread, mcmagic? you don't need to performatively tell us how little you care, i think literally everyone in dnd knows by now You said that privilege depends on what Roberts is willing to do... This is also a bad characterization of my posting. https://twitter.com/byrdinator/status/1221842763131576320 Josh Hawley is a very disturbing character.... mcmagic fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 18:18
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ManBoyChef posted:You are absolutely right. When the founders came up with impeachment they didn't envision a group of senators so devoid of integrity as to put their own power ahead of the constitution. Now we have this poo poo show Seems like they weren't as brilliant as we like to think then.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:20
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ryde posted:Seems like they weren't as brilliant as we like to think then. No set of rules will ever constrain people who don't believe the rules apply to them.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:22
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Every system is liable to be exploited by someone.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:23
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ryde posted:Seems like they weren't as brilliant as we like to think then. They did realize that political parties were problematic but they overestimated how much members of the specific branches would put their parties' interest over their branch's interest.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:25
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Deteriorata posted:No set of rules will ever constrain people who don't believe the rules apply to them. It's about how hard it is to break those constraints without everyone else revolting.
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Jan 27, 2020 18:25
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1221764212873224193
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Jan 27, 2020 18:58
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