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Transistor Rhythm posted:I had to double check that I hadn’t missed an issue between X-men 4 and 5. Did this stuff get set up another book? The assassination stuff is all happening in X-Force.
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Jan 30, 2020 02:49
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Alaois posted:sure lets put Hank McCoy in charge of our deniable ops team what could go wr-OH NO
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Jan 30, 2020 02:52
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Transistor Rhythm posted:I had to double check that I hadn’t missed an issue between X-men 4 and 5. Did this stuff get set up another book? It's basically in media res, the first page with cyclops is the last page of the issue.
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Jan 30, 2020 02:57
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Kingtheninja posted:It's basically in media res, the first page with cyclops is the last page of the issue. I got that, it just seems like the vault thing is treated like something that was introduced before. And Serafina? I took a few months off.
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Jan 30, 2020 03:00
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Transistor Rhythm posted:I got that, it just seems like the vault thing is treated like something that was introduced before. And Serafina? I took a few months off. The Vault is from Mike Carey's run, which was pretty good. The first couple of arcs are especially relevant. Edit: She's originally from Carey's run too, btw. wielder fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 03:09
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The Serfina character was in issue one of Hickman's current run, I think. She was some kind of project Orchis was working on? But she teleported away?
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Jan 30, 2020 03:41
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BrianWilly posted:The Serfina character was in issue one of Hickman's current run, I think. She was some kind of project Orchis was working on? But she teleported away? I loved the set up of this issue, but it seemed like the story just started with issue ended. I’m very into this Synch, Wolverine and Darwin team but I have no idea when this team will pick up. A future issue of x-men? An entirely new book (I kind of doubt that).
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Jan 30, 2020 04:14
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Yeah she was (mistakenly?) being held in an Orchis facility with a bunch of captive mutants in issue #1 of X-Men.
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Jan 30, 2020 04:15
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So is this week the first instance of incompatible storytelling since HoXPoX started up? Laura's calling herself Wolverine in X-Men #5 and in the vault, even though Fallen Angels #6 is listed after it on the reading order. Everything's been pretty tightly orchestrated up until that, so I wonder if that's just comics being comics or if Poorly Written Laura is actually deliberate somehow.
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Jan 30, 2020 05:25
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Are they the same Laura? Maybe we’ll find out Wolverine Laura went into the vault and is considered KIA, so a duplicate is made from an earlier backup which is who we see in Fallen Angels?
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Jan 30, 2020 05:29
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Balon posted:Are they the same Laura? Maybe we’ll find out Wolverine Laura went into the vault and is considered KIA, so a duplicate is made from an earlier backup which is who we see in Fallen Angels? Unless FA is set way in the future I just don’t see this (yet). The team going MIA in the vault would make a good candidate for the questions of “we don’t know if they’ll ever make it back or if they’re dead, should we bring them back?” and “IF we bring them back and the originals return, what do we do?” Which given the resurrection protocol, I expect Hickman to explore in some capacity.
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Jan 30, 2020 05:35
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I know X-Men #7 is meant to explore the conceit of like, "souls" and details of the resurrection stuff a bit more. I can't think of anything else that's been out of chronological order though, so it'd have to mean there was already a second Laura beforehand. Only thing that makes sense to me is that they made some disposable clones specifically for the vault mission and never told anyone. e: actually, nevermind, Armor was at the briefing and in New Mutants at the same time too so I guess they're just playing fast and loose as comics do. Abroham Lincoln fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 05:41
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Just pretend Fallen Angels doesn't exist
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Jan 30, 2020 05:54
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lmao at caring about fallen angels at all
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Jan 30, 2020 08:37
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Abroham Lincoln posted:So is this week the first instance of incompatible storytelling since HoXPoX started up? Laura's calling herself Wolverine in X-Men #5 and in the vault, even though Fallen Angels #6 is listed after it on the reading order. I saw it as Hickman going back and fixing the "calling her X-23" fuckup in Fallen Angels, which even the FA writer admitted was a mistake on twitter. If there's one thing Hickman is, it's friendly about making sure that the parts of the story hold together/people know what's going on. At the end of his Avengers run, when it wasn't quite clear what the hell Doom threw at the Beyonders, he made it a point to add a scene in one of the Secret Wars issues to clearly show what happened.
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Jan 30, 2020 09:13
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Unless FA is set way in the future I just don’t see this (yet). The team going MIA in the vault would make a good candidate for the questions of “we don’t know if they’ll ever make it back or if they’re dead, should we bring them back?” and “IF we bring them back and the originals return, what do we do?” Which given the resurrection protocol, I expect Hickman to explore in some capacity.
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Jan 30, 2020 14:14
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X-Men #5-7 being delayed probably threw a wrench in any tight continuity wrangling, hence the X-23/Wolverine disparity. Super into seeing X-23, Darwin and Synch vs the Children of the Vault and their city. I love the CotV, and I really hope we get Hickman's take on superhero science (e.g. Hellion at the construction site in Legacy using his powers in a cool way against a controlled Omega Sentinel, and the CotV arc in India that got all dimensional.) as Carey did with the X-Men.
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Jan 30, 2020 14:47
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I thought one of the coolest parts was the text bit on Synch exploring the psychological effects of the resurrection. It even addressed that panel of Synch and Skin at the orgy.
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Jan 30, 2020 16:17
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COTV remind me a lot of the stuff the Maker was doing right before SW. I hope he comes back into play in this.Beerdeer posted:I thought one of the coolest parts was the text bit on Synch exploring the psychological effects of the resurrection. It even addressed that panel of Synch and Skin at the orgy. Yeah that was really neat. Other than fallen angels, which is definitely a book for edgy teenagers and i can respect that and not buy it, this is quickly eclipsing Hickman's previous work as my favorite thing Marvel has ever done.
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Jan 30, 2020 18:17
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So I was reading the older X-Men Legacy stuff, and in it Rogue got control of her powers, so she could touch people without absorbing their powers, but then by the tim Rogue and Gambit and the Mr. and Mrs. X books came out she'd lost it again. When did that happen?
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Jan 30, 2020 21:34
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I don't remember precisely but it's a constant with her. She's gained control over her powers a few times but it never sticks.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:36
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She can control it in Excalibur. Think it's a state of mind thing at this point. If she's feeling alright she can flip a switch.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:51
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Skwirl posted:So I was reading the older X-Men Legacy stuff, and in it Rogue got control of her powers, so she could touch people without absorbing their powers, but then by the tim Rogue and Gambit and the Mr. and Mrs. X books came out she'd lost it again. When did that happen? I think she gets control of it by the end of Rogue and Gambit?
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Jan 30, 2020 22:54
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Abroham Lincoln posted:I think she gets control of it by the end of Rogue and Gambit? Because of a power dampening bracelet, which she still has.
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Jan 30, 2020 23:15
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Rogue lost the ability to control her powers at the tail end of Remender's Uncanny Avengers, she absorbs the powers of pretty much every assembled Avenger to fight off a Celestial, but afterwards can't unbond from Wonder Man and also can't touch anyone without taking their powers/mind again.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:41
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The real answer is Rogue not being able to control her power makes for cheap drama for hack writers who have run the house of ideas out of ideas.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:45
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Eh, to be fair, I'm not super fond of the "erase flaws/weaknesses" school of writing. For a lot of characters their flaws or limitations are part of who they are as characters and just removing them because 'it's boring' comes across more as 'it's hard to write around and I don't want to."
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Jan 31, 2020 00:46
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rantmo posted:Because of a power dampening bracelet, which she still has. I could've sworn she could turn it on/off herself because she'd overcome some psychological thing. I know there was something about her being able to absorb at range, too.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:53
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Abroham Lincoln posted:I could've sworn she could turn it on/off herself because she'd overcome some psychological thing. I know there was something about her being able to absorb at range, too. She definitely had a power dampening necklace at the start of Mr. and Mrs. X because she asks Beast to turn it into a tennis bracelet.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:58
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howe_sam posted:She definitely had a power dampening necklace at the start of Mr. and Mrs. X because she asks Beast to turn it into a tennis bracelet. Right, I had the series backwards. I had to go look it up because it was confusing me, but by the end of Mr. and Mrs. X she goes through a bit in Mojoverse and realizes that her being afraid was the subconscious blocker that kept her from controlling her powers. She still has the bracelet and can wear it in case of like, panic attacks or anything like that (especially since she can absorb multiple people at once, at range, which makes it very dangerous) but she's still mostly in control on her own which is what you see in Excalibur. For the original question, apparently she had lost control after she took Wonder Man's powers a while back.
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Jan 31, 2020 01:26
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I don't think it's so much "we have to return the character's weakness because we have no better idea" and more "this is a part of the character everyone knows." Like, 'can't touch people' has been a part of Rogue's character for so long that it's baked-in; to the extent that most people know the character at all, that's what they know. Tony Stark might go on a bender and stop being Iron Man for a while, but everyone knows that's gonna come to an end eventually because everyone knows Tony Stark is Iron Man. Everyone knows the Daily Bugle talks poo poo about Spider-Man. Everyone knows Captain America is a dude named Steve Rogers with an indestructible shield. Any of these things might not be currently true but sooner or later they all go back to being true, because it's what people expect - and 'people' includes the writers. Comics have always been about the illusion of change, it's baked into the business model by now.
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Jan 31, 2020 01:52
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That Apocalypse Twins/Ragnarok Now story in Uncanny Avengers kicked all sorts of rear end.
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Jan 31, 2020 02:04
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Comics have always been about the illusion of change, it's baked into the business model by now. Less illusion of change, I would argue, and more genuine change, but only selectively. The status quo advances, it's just that for every 2 dozen changes, only 1 sticks long term.
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Jan 31, 2020 05:27
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Adder Moray posted:Less illusion of change, I would argue, and more genuine change, but only selectively. The status quo advances, it's just that for every 2 dozen changes, only 1 sticks long term. I think that's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Some status quo changes do stick, but they're few and far between; I'd argue that that's more a function of "hey the audience seems to dig this, let's run with it" than "the writers were brave." The illusion of change is still the standard operating procedure, but even comics companies will shut up and listen to audience response.
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Jan 31, 2020 09:43
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I think that's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Some status quo changes do stick, but they're few and far between; I'd argue that that's more a function of "hey the audience seems to dig this, let's run with it" than "the writers were brave." The illusion of change is still the standard operating procedure, but even comics companies will shut up and listen to audience response. I dunno, there's stuff that doesn't follow this model. Like "Tony Stark has an AI assistant in his suit" has become a baked-in part of the character due to a combination of the movies, and the fact that it just makes sense in the context of modern technology. The nature of the AI assistant frequently changes run by run, but it's pretty much always a part of the character these days.
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Jan 31, 2020 10:45
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Rogue's back-and-forth would bother me less but for the fact that it's happened so many times and is not always well explained, if explained at all. The current state of her powers is satisfying because a story was built around it, but that was true of the time she gained control over her powers and lost Danvers' powers and then something, something Wonder Man and everything's reset! It's the nature of comics and X-Men in particular but hopefully she'll stay at this status quo moving forward, because drama about her powers is overdone and dull, it's emotional drama I want around her!
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Jan 31, 2020 13:58
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Android Blues posted:I dunno, there's stuff that doesn't follow this model. Like "Tony Stark has an AI assistant in his suit" has become a baked-in part of the character due to a combination of the movies, and the fact that it just makes sense in the context of modern technology. The nature of the AI assistant frequently changes run by run, but it's pretty much always a part of the character these days. And then you’ve got Wolverine ‘s long evolution from “moody loner with a mysterious past” to “every young mutant girl’s cool stepdad with an extensively documented past AND future.” Or Magneto, where it’s the attempts to revert him back to the status quo that never end up sticking. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 14:13
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Magneto's been an ally of the X-Men for a decade now, since his latest, whatever the opposite of a heel turn is called.
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Jan 31, 2020 16:23
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Face turn is the opposite of heel turn.
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Jan 31, 2020 16:25
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:And then you’ve got Wolverine ‘s long evolution from “moody loner with a mysterious past” to “every young mutant girl’s cool stepdad with an extensively documented past AND future.” As much as John Byrne would complain, nobody wants Magneto as a stock villain anymore.
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Jan 31, 2020 17:47
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