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Elusive beatdown decks are the decks that arise in every CCG that are cheap and easy to build, relatively straightforward to play and fast/potent enough to beat up on unoptimised nonsense. They aren't uncounterable, they aren't dominating at the pointy end of the ladder, there's no reason to think they need an urgent change or that a new deck won't come along tomorrow and become the flavour of the week.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:41
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My main complaint about elusives is it forces every deck to have -some- form of anti-elusive or you just lose from being whittled down slowly or in the case of handbuffed elusives, very very quickly.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:04
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That wouldnt be a problem. But what you're saying is a dramatic understatement, your deck needs to be geared entirely towards beating elusives to have a chance at beating them.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:07
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That in turn is a dramatic overstatement. Check out the first deck to reach Master in Asia: https://decksofruneterra.com/decks/ivoexBeI Is that specifically tuned to beat elusives? Or do you think they didn't notice elusives are good over there?
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Jan 30, 2020 22:14
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Just beat the new SI / Noxus First to master EU deck thrice with the Noxus / Ionia aggro deck posted on last page.
Buller fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 22:17
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I mean, yes? what do you think the six buffed up elusives are for? (tbf buffed up elusives are always good)
No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 22:18
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King Pawn posted:That in turn is a dramatic overstatement. Check out the first deck to reach Master in Asia: 6 Elusive blockers, lots of lifesteal and frostbite to stall the elusives because you cant block them most of the time. Yes its made to counter elusives.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:20
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what about the other one thats just a darius spider beatdown deck? like elusives just dont deal with high aggro, theyre not that bad really.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:25
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Oh I didn't realise "specifically geared to beat elusives" meant "contains any form of interaction with elusives". Yes I suppose if you can't race them, or block them, or force combat with them using Challenger, or kill them with spells then you might struggle. Weird!
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Jan 30, 2020 22:29
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Jan 30, 2020 22:30
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The thing I noticed while playing elusives myself was that they do take a few rounds to get going since you need to cycle the recall ninja/mentors to get your hand buffs online and it's very, very punishable if you have cards that an elusive deck does not want to have to block before they get enough mana to come online. It's a fast deck but it's NOT a round four kill deck the way Noxus can be. SI's Cursed Keepers, Sharks, Butchers, and Unliving dudes can also gently caress an elusive deck up BADLY if you get any of them online in the first 3 rounds.
mistaya fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 22:32
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King Pawn posted:Oh I didn't realise "specifically geared to beat elusives" meant "contains any form of interaction with elusives". Yes I suppose if you can't race them, or block them, or force combat with them using Challenger, or kill them with spells then you might struggle. Weird! No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 22:32
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either that deck shows that control just beats elusives, or elusives are so easily countered that you can quickly put together a deck that will carry you into masters crushing them. i think in either case it means elusives probably arent as big of an issue as some people are saying.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:35
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Just don't play constructed ever 
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Jan 30, 2020 22:38
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It's already a week in and goons are already tripping over themselves to flaunt their digital card game cred and flex at how good they are
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Jan 30, 2020 22:39
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mistaya posted:The thing I noticed while playing elusives myself was that they do take a few rounds to get going since you need to cycle the recall ninja/mentors to get your hand buffs online and it's very, very punishable if you have cards that an elusive deck does not want to have to block before they get enough mana to come online. It's a fast deck but it's NOT a round four kill deck the way Noxus can be. SI's Cursed Keepers, Sharks, Butchers, and Unliving dudes can also gently caress an elusive deck up BADLY if you get any of them online in the first 3 rounds. its fun playing shark decks with a couple of darkwater scourges into elusives. and deathmarking shadow fiends.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:42
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The main thing that probably is too good (and is most noticable on elusives) is anything that permanently buffs a unit due to the games attacking and blocking mechanics. Mentor is a 1 mana 2/2 of stats, Omen hawk is a 1 mana 3/3, both with the benefit of potentially buffing much stronger units, Hearthguard has the same effect in hearthstone on a conditional legendary for 2 mana and if you dropped it on turn 2 it was generally a 75% winrate for the aggro deck that used it. Much harder to remove anything in this game if it gets buffed out of specific kill ranges since there are only a couple "kill anything" 1 or 2 card combos per region, if that, and zaun has the only +1 spell damage minion at 5 mana with a 2 drop's body.
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Jan 30, 2020 22:50
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Every region has some form of a 1 mana 2/2 or better though? It's not like Mentor is out to lunch in terms of raw stats in comparison to the rest of the regions. Also with the exception of a couple other cards, elusives don't get out of kill range or most spells unless they get double buffed.
berenzen fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 22:53
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No Wave posted:how many days have you played this game? I know you generally compete at these sorts of games seriously so you'll see what the good decks are soon enough. I just hit Plat IV - nothing worldshattering but I'm no longer a total novice. Elusives are good, sure, but I've been farming them pretty hard with a grindier Ionia/Demacia midrangey deck. I do play some Elusives myself though, perhaps I'm part of the problem!
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Jan 30, 2020 23:31
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It blows my mind that Hearthstone has so thoroughly broken digital card game players that they do not know how to handle the keyword "flying" from 1994 magic the gathering
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Jan 30, 2020 23:43
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I love it when people don't understand the timing on Fiora's win condition. I just won a game at -10 HP because of it.
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Jan 30, 2020 23:48
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I do think that's a bit reductive, considering that magic does also have some tools for anti-flying that Runeterra does not (notably reach as a keyword and some flyer hate cards. Discard abilities would also be supremely useful against the hand buffs that go in elusive decks). But yeah, overall, none of these elusive cards are really over-statted. The lifesteal and card draw elusive are both quite good, but neither are OP.
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Jan 30, 2020 23:49
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I'm no TCG expert, but I don't think the way that elusive allies impact this game is exactly analogous to flyers in MTG. There isn't a counterpart to reach in this game, and removal is more sparse AND more expensive- there's no equivalent to a Path to Exile or Doomblade, which is something I actually like a lot, but it makes it harder to deal with elusives. That being said, I've been mostly playing a Noxus/SI spider aggro deck and haven't had too much trouble with elusive decks because I can just outpace them.
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Jan 30, 2020 23:56
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I think people are overstating the value of reach in MtG. Even during highly dominant flyer metagame in magic (last years mono-U tempo for example) reach still doesn't get run in decks, except as something that's stapled onto a card that already is doing something in their gameplans. Reach is much more of a keyword that's relevant to limited formats than constructed formats.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:28
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MtG also has a billion ways to instantly destroy a flier. Almost any non mono deck can tech some control against heavy fliers.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:33
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Eraflure posted:MtG also has a billion ways to instantly destroy a flier. Almost any non mono deck can tech some control against heavy fliers. It has a billion ways to destroy creatures in general. LoR distinctly lacks that. If the best linear creature strategy is too dominant because of the lack of removal, the problem is that and not elusive. That problem is going to keep manifesting pretty much no matter what other changes get made.
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Jan 31, 2020 01:42
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There are a distinct lack of cards that manipulate the enemy hand, I wonder if that's going to be something you see in one of the un-released regions. (Things like, you and the enemy both discard your hands and redraw three, or stealing a card from the enemy hand, or forcing the enemy to discard a card.) It would certainly help with some of the SI spam-draw tactics if you could cull the enemy hand once it gets completely out of control. e: now that I think about it I'd bet that's going to be a thing for Bilgewater since there is absolutely NO chance they don't put Twisted Fate in. Some nasty 9 mana "you both discard your entire hand" slow spell. mistaya fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 02:20
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I played Brightsteel Formation in response to my opponents For Demacia! and it was extremely cool and good. He was frustrated enough to throw away his entire board for a whopping one damage afterwards.
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Jan 31, 2020 02:33
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Imagined posted:It's "flying" in any other card game. It's not OP. This is absurd. this is was what my post was saying. the concept is not overpowered there just is not be enough tech to deal with it so it scans as being on the strong side right now
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Jan 31, 2020 02:45
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mistaya posted:There are a distinct lack of cards that manipulate the enemy hand, I wonder if that's going to be something you see in one of the un-released regions. (Things like, you and the enemy both discard your hands and redraw three, or stealing a card from the enemy hand, or forcing the enemy to discard a card.) It would certainly help with some of the SI spam-draw tactics if you could cull the enemy hand once it gets completely out of control. Either Bilgewater or Bandle City will be my bet. I wonder if they'll shuffle Teemo to Bandle City when they eventually release it and put a new P/Z champ in his place. There's plenty of other champs that work there.
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Jan 31, 2020 02:45
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cant wait for the ekko card because hes best boy and because it will inevitably infuriating to play against
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Jan 31, 2020 02:46
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Had my first Bad Expedition, but immediately made up for it with a 7-0. My final opponent played a Heimerdinger on turn 5 with no protection and I have no idea what he could've possibly thought was going to happen.
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Jan 31, 2020 03:37
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Monathin posted:Either Bilgewater or Bandle City will be my bet. I wonder if they'll shuffle Teemo to Bandle City when they eventually release it and put a new P/Z champ in his place. There's plenty of other champs that work there. I haven't played LoL in years but I want to be Gangplank and shoot people and eat fruit
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Jan 31, 2020 03:37
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I haven't played LoL in years but I want to be Gangplank and shoot people and eat fruit I want to be Gangplank and shoot my own minions, old school style.
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Jan 31, 2020 03:37
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I pulled Two Heimers, do I use my 3rd Champ card on this somewhat inexpensive Control deck? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4bwgK6P1Jk 
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Jan 31, 2020 04:54
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Studio posted:Just don't play constructed ever I know the point of Draft in literally every card game is to pull the good cards instead of trying to recreate a constructed deck but man it's SO easy to build a good spider deck because every green card contributes to the strategy in some way. The meta deck is Dawnspiders but I went a totally different route with Phantom Prankster and suiciding my units constantly with blocks
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Jan 31, 2020 05:02
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Monathin posted:Either Bilgewater or Bandle City will be my bet. I wonder if they'll shuffle Teemo to Bandle City when they eventually release it and put a new P/Z champ in his place. There's plenty of other champs that work there. It's more likely they'll make another Teemo card for Bandle City. There's a whole bunch of Teemo-specific cards in Piltover/Zaun that would be left drifting in the wind if he straight up left.
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Jan 31, 2020 05:18
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ankle posted:I'm no TCG expert, but I don't think the way that elusive allies impact this game is exactly analogous to flyers in MTG. There isn't a counterpart to reach in this game, and removal is more sparse AND more expensive- there's no equivalent to a Path to Exile or Doomblade, which is something I actually like a lot, but it makes it harder to deal with elusives. Buffing to hand in most D/I Elusive aggro decks exists purely in the form of Inspiring Mentor. Riposte, Back to Back, and Stand Alone are either conditional (solo unit) or cost 4+. To be clear, I do not think that Elusive aggro is a bad deck, or that RDW is a bad strategy all the time. I think there are Elusive units that could be slightly too powerful, to be sure. But as an overwhelming, backbreaking, this-strat-is-untouchable level meta-defining phenomenon I don't buy it. Maybe if we're still talking about this in March. mistaya posted:There are a distinct lack of cards that manipulate the enemy hand, I wonder if that's going to be something you see in one of the un-released regions. (Things like, you and the enemy both discard your hands and redraw three, or stealing a card from the enemy hand, or forcing the enemy to discard a card.) It would certainly help with some of the SI spam-draw tactics if you could cull the enemy hand once it gets completely out of control.
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Jan 31, 2020 05:19
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Pyke's ability being to execute any enemy unit at 1 health would be hilarious. Actually of all the Bilgewater champs if I was to pick 4 to put in LoR it'd probably be Tahm Kench, Pyke, Illaoi and Nautilus. Though I accept there is roughly a 0% chance that Miss Fortune and Gangplank aren't in the set. njsykora fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 05:22
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I know the point of Draft in literally every card game is to pull the good cards instead of trying to recreate a constructed deck but man it's SO easy to build a good spider deck because every green card contributes to the strategy in some way. The meta deck is Dawnspiders but I went a totally different route with Phantom Prankster and suiciding my units constantly with blocks I mean this isn't a traditional draft, and quite often a lot of drafts in MTG due lend themselves to pretty powerful combos (though maybe not standard oriented). If you can force spiders, go ham with that then. I haven't been able to get a good Spiders deck going, but I also don't go Shadow Isles very often.
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Jan 31, 2020 05:54
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