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Shodai? This poll is closed. |
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21 | 75.00% |
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7 | 25.00% |
| Total: | 28 votes | ||
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Marching Powder posted:whoa. i've been watching this sport for exactly one month and i I'm just watching it through Jason's channel, the playlist I'm watching is: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD710B4AF405CEB77 There's stuff missing but I'm just taking what I can get. This Basho is actually the first half of Harumafuji's Yokozuna run, he's the Yokozuna that had to resign in 2017 after hitting a lower ranked Wrestler, Takanoiwa, with a remote control in a karaoke bar. (Which was initially widely reported as breaking a bottle over someone's head). in 2018 Takanoiwa himself had an incident where he hit a lower ranked Rikishi, so he too was forced to retire, ending up at M9e. I mostly posted the Banzuke because 6 Ozeki is quite contrasting to the 1 Ozeki we're about to have, though lots of the names being familiar (and lots being unfamiliar) is kind of cool too. Brut fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 17:52
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Brut posted:I'm going back and watching some older Basho and just look at this Banzuke from July/Nagoya 2012: Just looking up Kotooshu's record and he was Ozeki for 47 bashos before dropping down and retiring, that's pretty amazing. then you look at Hakuho and he spent 7 bashos at Ozeki before becoming a Yokozuna. That's what winning two bashos in a row will get you. Here is Hakuho getting the victory that gave him Yokozuna, crowd was hot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m7binbgGmE
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Jan 30, 2020 18:21
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Just had a look at that channel I got that video from and if you're interested in sumo history he has bouts reportedly from: 1993 1990 1989 1971 1960 1958 And... 1902 1897 As well as a lot of videos from the lower divisions.
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Jan 30, 2020 18:35
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In the videos from the turn of the century they have their hands down and don't seem to immediately start. when did that become a thing? edit: and in the one labeled 1960 they don't even touch down ilmucche fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jan 30, 2020 |
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Jan 30, 2020 18:40
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gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress it cut off before old rear end enho won
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Jan 30, 2020 20:46
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One interesting thing I found when looking through SumoDB is that they managed to hold bashos all throughout WWII, at a time when almost all other sporting events were cancelled. They even held one in June 1945, when Tokyo was in ruins and under constant threat of further bombings.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:26
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"Traditional" budo has a colourful history with the Shōwa regime. I'm not at all surprised they maintained the tradition in spite of everything.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:34
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Marching Powder posted:gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress gently caress it cut off before old rear end enho won What is interesting, if you go back and look at Araiwa's (old rear end Enho) record. We're used to 10-5 or 8-3-4 records. But Araiwa had a finishing record of 6-1-1-2d and Genjiyama had 2-2-1-2d-3a and they're not unusual records for that time. I'm not sure what they all mean beyond win/loss though. Araiwa managed to get to Ozeki rank.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:46
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The Showa emperor was also just personally a huge fan of the sport. Also, during the occupation sumo was one of the first combat sports that was permitted to resume activities, since the Americans didn't find sumotori as physically threatening as people who practiced other martial arts. This allowed sumo to really start to represent Japanese-ness during a period where the imperial identity was utterly in tatters and it wasn't immediately clear what Japan would be like after the war. This very specific mid-century history is responsible for a lot of the impression that sumo is this extremely rarified, ultra-traditional, Most Japanese Sport Ever. Mechanically it's pretty similar to a few other grappling sports (it's almost identical to Mongolian wrestling, which is partly why Mongolians have been so successful), and structurally it's changed a similar amount compared to other sports leagues in the last 100 years. I love all the particularities of sumo, and that's a lot of what makes it fun, but sometimes when I'm talking to non-sumo fans they'll say like, "Oh, sumo's like super ancient and it's like a big part of Japanese culture right?" and I feel the need to push back on that sort of semi-orientalist take.
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Jan 30, 2020 21:46
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Kenning posted:The Showa emperor was also just personally a huge fan of the sport. Also, during the occupation sumo was one of the first combat sports that was permitted to resume activities, since the Americans didn't find sumotori as physically threatening as people who practiced other martial arts. This allowed sumo to really start to represent Japanese-ness during a period where the imperial identity was utterly in tatters and it wasn't immediately clear what Japan would be like after the war. lol, i get it. there's a tradition among a certain crowd to call mall karate, aikido, tiger style GONG FU and other poo poo that absolutely does not work when a skilled man is trying to kill you 'traditional master arts'. Traditional. Martial. Arts. There are rock paintings from 20,000 years ago showing that humans wrestled for sport. boxing and mma (pankration) were in the first loving Olympics ever. That poo poo never gets accused of being steeped into tradition despite being older than entire civilisations and dynasties.
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Jan 30, 2020 23:39
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Marching Powder posted:whoa. i've been watching this sport for exactly one month and i Other people have pointed to Youtube sources, but you can also link to those videos via sumodb. If you click on a rikishi's results from the banzuke page (like 9-6 or whatever), it shows you their matches for that basho, often with a video link for a specific bout. Mostly these are makuuchi or juryo, but sometimes you find the lower divisions too. Interestingly, there's only a couple of people on that 2012 banzuke that you wouldn't have seen during this last basho, as most of the unfamiliar names are now oyakata or gambarizing (Masunoyama and Toyohibiki) down in the lower divisions. The only ones that you wouldn't see would be Baruto, Aran, Takanoyama (left NSK after retiring, notably all European) and Tokitenku (died from cancer. Dude loved his leg trips). Kenning posted:The Showa emperor was also just personally a huge fan of the sport. This was the original "Emperor" in the Emperor's Cup. I'm pretty sure it was the Crown Prince's Cup for a bit before he ascended the throne. ilmucche posted:In the videos from the turn of the century they have their hands down and don't seem to immediately start. when did that become a thing? The enforcement of the "hands down" has varied over the years - they decided to be pretty strict a few years ago, and for a couple of basho, there were heaps of matta for dudes not touching down properly. Kotoyuki was one of the more notorious offenders. They've eased up, but they'll still call super blatant infractions.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:17
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Marching Powder posted:lol, i get it. there's a tradition among a certain crowd to call mall karate, aikido, tiger style GONG FU and other poo poo that absolutely does not work when a skilled man is trying to kill you 'traditional master arts'. Traditional. Martial. Arts. There are rock paintings from 20,000 years ago showing that humans wrestled for sport. boxing and mma (pankration) were in the first loving Olympics ever. That poo poo never gets accused of being steeped into tradition despite being older than entire civilisations and dynasties. I wish I could remember where I read it, but wrestling as a sport probably evolved from practicing for use in actual martial contexts - as in actual armed dudes in an army context. A lot of wrestling styles end once someone hits the ground - which makes sense if you're going for it in a battlefield melee.
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Jan 31, 2020 00:24
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Elissimpark posted:I wish I could remember where I read it, but wrestling as a sport probably evolved from practicing for use in actual martial contexts - as in actual armed dudes in an army context. A lot of wrestling styles end once someone hits the ground - which makes sense if you're going for it in a battlefield melee. john danaher is a bjj savant and without a doubt the best teacher i've ever heard trying to elucidate what my ridiculous body should be trying to do and he basically explained it like this. INTENSELY PARAPHRASED ANECDOTE FROM JD you have located and moved into fighting range with you're opponent. what's the most effective way to put you in an extremely advantageous position? that's right, get em off their feet, take them down. so now say you're on top of him, but you're between both of his legs. next step? yep, clear the legs. the legs are powerful muscles. you can catch a boot or two if they start kicking like wild, so you move into half guard and eventually, side control. at side control, wrestlers might start looking for pins in order to end the match. bjj guys would either advance position again (mount or back take) or start seriously looking at debilitating submissions themselves. regardless, once you've cleared their legs and you're on top of them on the ground, you are in such a dominant position that finishing off any medieval opponent with handy knife wouldn't take more then 15 seconds including removal. and yeah, wrestling does teach you how to take people down into advantageous position, clear their legs and pin em
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Jan 31, 2020 00:42
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We have illustrated medieval and renaissance training manuals demonstrating exactly how to do that, in fact.  Some of which look pretty familiar to people used to sumo throws.... 
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Jan 31, 2020 03:08
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why do men fight?
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Jan 31, 2020 03:52
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BONGHITZ posted:why do men fight? How else do you make up for a small penis OP? Duh
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Jan 31, 2020 04:40
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Liquid Communism posted:We have illustrated medieval and renaissance training manuals demonstrating exactly how to do that, in fact. Now you've posted this, it was probably an ARMA essay or something HEMA related that I had been reading. Someone on the ground, as Marching Powder notes, is super stabbable. BONGHITZ posted:why do men fight? Fighting is for EVERYONE! I'm on my phone but just pretend I posted the Talhoffer pic of a woman with a brick in a sock fighting the dude in the hole with a club.
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Jan 31, 2020 05:22
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Because we've been bred to be killing machines from the time we were single-celled organisms. Even when the ability dulls, the hunger remains. Also is the loving president of Japan's tobacco industry sitting at a table judging the honor of others? Holy poo poo gently caress that guy.
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Jan 31, 2020 05:50
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Do the different colors of mawashi mean anything?
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Jan 31, 2020 06:10
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Generally high-ranked guys in the titled ranks are expected to have sober, dark colors, like black or dark blue or brown. Otherwise it's mostly just a question of personal taste and brand-making. Kagayaki wrestled with a gold mawashi for a long time because former yokozuna Wajima was from his home region and was known for that color. Onosho wrestled with a bright red mawashi when he was first burning it up in makuuchi. He switched to dark navy after a few basho, went 1-6, and then won 7 of his last 8 bouts to make kachi-koshi after switching back to red midway through. My currently favorite mawashi color is definitely Chiyomaru's hilarious neon green, but my favorite I've seen was Ura's lovely pink mawashi. I remember watching some of his lower division bouts when he was on his first comeback from injury and noticing that even though he was wearing the standard non-sekitori black mawashi his sagari were still the same pink color 
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Jan 31, 2020 06:17
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Technically, everyone should be wearing dark blue, black or purple, but it's become a serving suggestion only over the years. I think someone did a Tokushoryu back in the fifties with a gold mawashi and it took off from there.
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Jan 31, 2020 06:43
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ChrisBTY posted:Also is the loving president of Japan's tobacco industry sitting at a table judging the honor of others? Holy poo poo gently caress that guy. The Government of Japan owns a third of Japanese Tobacco and must own at least a third by law. They're a quasi-governmental org and v comfortably entrenched.
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Jan 31, 2020 07:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EafzHj184-0 lmao Also here's a good Kakuryu match ya'll should see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvSO1-a0yZE&t=50s 
Brut fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 12:20
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Elissimpark posted:
y'all should google this, it delivers
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Jan 31, 2020 21:18
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Lone Goat posted:y'all should google this, it delivers or, if you prefer to watch two virginal cherubs re-enacting it for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH9Eqzcejws
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Jan 31, 2020 21:24
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time for a sword fight? ill bring my katana, it means "Japanese sword"
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Jan 31, 2020 21:48
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Just to lower the tone for a moment. https://www.jiujitsutimes.com/substars-poirier-vs-tonon-celebrity-sumo-match-full-card/ Rumble Johnson and Curtis Blaydes doing celebrity sumo
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Jan 31, 2020 22:24
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Southpaugh posted:Just to lower the tone for a moment. is this real? is 2020 really the year where even more mma goons decide to casually watch sumo wrestling because the markets are now specifically cross-pollinating?
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Jan 31, 2020 22:26
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https://www.instagram.com/p/B71HGkOAtwi/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Yeah I've seen a few things on social media about it.
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Jan 31, 2020 23:40
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I actually got into sumo because the president of the United States went to Japan and gave Asanoyama a prize.
BONGHITZ fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 03:04
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Does anybody have any particularly inspirational stories about a prominent Sumo suffering a massive career setback and having to prove himself all over again?
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Feb 1, 2020 03:26
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ChrisBTY posted:Does anybody have any particularly inspirational stories about a prominent Sumo suffering a massive career setback and having to prove himself all over again? turonofuji is doing that right now isn't he? i don't know anything though so i cant tell stories.
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Feb 1, 2020 03:36
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ChrisBTY posted:Does anybody have any particularly inspirational stories about a prominent Sumo suffering a massive career setback and having to prove himself all over again? Tochinoshin achieving ozeki after his injury might work.
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Feb 1, 2020 03:41
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anakha posted:Tochinoshin achieving ozeki after his injury might work. this is literally what got me to start watching sumo. youtube randomly suggested this and i don't know why but i clicked on it. now i'm here. great story. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Ll-zlT0sE e: my bad, this is tochinoshin regaining ozeki. still great.
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Feb 1, 2020 03:43
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ChrisBTY posted:Does anybody have any particularly inspirational stories about a prominent Sumo suffering a massive career setback and having to prove himself all over again? I'm not exactly good with story telling but here's some fighters that come to mind: Tochinoshin, look at 2013/2014 Ryuden, look at 2012-2014 Terunofuji, look at 2017-present Masunoyama, look at 2014-future??? Important to know about Tochinoshin, prior to his injury he had achieved his career high rank of Komusubi 4 times and got a 6-9 each time: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&shikona=tochinoshin&form1_rank=k-s&form1_year=1990-2013 So him getting Ozeki (twice, technically) after coming back like that was quite unexpected. EDIT: Oh yeah Ura!! How could I forget, see 3 posts below. Brut fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 03:51
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Oh Gods Terunofuji's story is exactly what I need. Now I need to figure how to tell the story to somebody who knows nothing of Sumo as somebody who doesn't know very much about Sumo.
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Feb 1, 2020 04:19
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ChrisBTY posted:Oh Gods Terunofuji's story is exactly what I need. Now I need to figure how to tell the story to somebody who knows nothing of Sumo as somebody who doesn't know very much about Sumo. it's pretty much just a standard 'heros story' arc or whatever it's called if you just started from his time in makuuchi as ozeki. detail his knees breaking down but he constantly fought back from kadoban despite being a time bomb. eventually the bomb burst and he fell, and fell, and fell, then they invented some new divisions into which he could fall, and now he's clawed his way back, likely re-entering makuuchi in either march or may. perffect time to root for him.
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Feb 1, 2020 04:27
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ChrisBTY posted:Oh Gods Terunofuji's story is exactly what I need. Now I need to figure how to tell the story to somebody who knows nothing of Sumo as somebody who doesn't know very much about Sumo. Here you go: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2019/11/23/sumo/terunofuji-endures-tough-times-get-back-track quote:Apart from torn ligaments, Terunofuji battled diabetes, cellulitis, organ problems and kidney stones. This was before he kicked rear end in the last tournament to find himself right on the cusp of the top division. Personally, I like Ura’s http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12226 story. A smaller guy who was a fun to watch underdog, he had clawed his way up the ranks higher than most people thought he would due to his size, but wound up with a brutal knee injury just as he was hitting the point where he would get to prove himself against the real contenders in September 2017 that kept him out for a full year. He came back, seemingly on his way back up going 13-1 in his first 2 tournaments back, but in January 2019, suffered another big injury knocking him back to basically rookie level. Came back in November, and like last time, he’s gone 13-1 again over 2 tournaments. His story is much more of an in progress story as he didn’t get a chance to reach his potential the first time around so it might wind up that he turns out to be a “what might have been” guy than a redemption story, but you can get in closer to the ground floor. pseudodragon fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 04:53
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Marching Powder posted:it's pretty much just a standard 'heros story' arc or whatever it's called if you just started from his time in makuuchi as ozeki. detail his knees breaking down but he constantly fought back from kadoban despite being a time bomb. eventually the bomb burst and he fell, and fell, and fell, then they invented some new divisions into which he could fall, and now he's clawed his way back, likely re-entering makuuchi in either march or may. perffect time to root for him. That's the outline, but there's some great drama on the way, too. Haru 2017 looked like he was having a renaissance - he nearly got his second Yusho, but Kisenosato ended up beating him twice (second time in a play off) with his gammy arm to secure his second yusho, after Teru had henka'd Kotoshogiku on day 14. Koto was trying to regain his Ozeki status from Sekiwake (needing the 10 wins) and Teru gave him his sixth loss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ptQtuFPOCk&t=823s That same basho, his tsukebito, Shunba, became the oldest makushita debut at 36, which Teru had said made him prouder than even becoming ozeki. Shunba had come from Miyagaki with Teru and yobidashi Teruya. The three seemed pretty close if you followed them on twitter. Teru managed one more decent basho before succumbing to injury and falling.
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Feb 1, 2020 05:39
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Wait, Terunofuji came THAT close to being eligible for Yokozuna?
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Feb 1, 2020 05:47
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