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Xealot posted:For real. I want this very badly. And I feel like we're owed one, since the universe took David Bowie from us before he could play Niander Wallace in BR2049. This is another absolute robbery. Leto is easily the worst part of 2049. His role is weird, but he absolutely fails to sell it. I think maybe the contacts were a mistake, but still. And yet, if I imagine dropping Bowie into the same spot and all other things being equal, same dialogue, same shots, etc, it becomes fantastic.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 18:14 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:57 |
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Leto is a decent enough actor when well-utilized (Requiem), but he can't elevate material. They needed someone who could make reading a phone book compelling as hell. The contacts were for sure necessary, though—without him being blind, the whole eye motif falls totally flat.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 18:29 |
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Leto can’t hold a candle to Bowie, needless to say, but I do think casting a kind of wormy guy who evinces a type of Thiel-esque technofascism was helpful for the role. I think it works that Wallace basically comes off as a rich kid rather than an insane genius, like Bowie might’ve.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 18:35 |
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Jared Leto should play Duke Leto and also Leto II in the sequels.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 18:40 |
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AlternateAccount posted:This is another absolute robbery. Leto is easily the worst part of 2049. His role is weird, but he absolutely fails to sell it. I think maybe the contacts were a mistake, but still. And yet, if I imagine dropping Bowie into the same spot and all other things being equal, same dialogue, same shots, etc, it becomes fantastic. I didn't buy any part of his performance in 2049, you already knew what you were going to get when he was announced so I guess he didn't let us down??
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 18:50 |
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I love BR2049 but it is an absolute trip watching the difference between Leto and Gosling. Gosling's character has like, 15 lines of dialogue throughout the entire movie and just sells his character's emotional state through his body language and facial expressions in a way that looks effortless. When he finds the wooden horse and his entire world just shatters. Then AGAIN when he finds out he's not the child at all... Meanwhile, Leto is putting in so much effort and just gorging himself on the scenery and it lands with a impact of a wet fart. I hate that dude. Luckily he doesn't ruin the movie because he has much better actors to perform off of.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 19:39 |
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Plus, Wallace sucks in-universe as well. But I really would have preferred a stronger performance, he's easily the worst part of an otherwise flawless film.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 19:59 |
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In BoJack Horseman two characters bond over complaining about a fruit salad with too much honeydew melon in it. "Urgh, honeydew. It's the worst part of everything that it's in. It's the Jaret Leto of fruit" And frankly that summary has never been topped.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 20:15 |
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I thought Leto was totally fine as Niander Wallace, it's just that Wallace was kind of a bad character to begin with. Like, that's the thing about Leto that I notice. He's not a bad actor by any means and, if he has good material, he can actually do really remarkably well with it. But he just keeps being given the absolute worst material, and in roles that should be easy slam-dunks like "being the new Joker" or "being the new Tyrell in the Blade Runner sequel." I don't hate him the way some people do because this really clearly isn't his fault; I'm not sure if this is Hollywood actively trying to dunk on him or if he's just very, very unlucky. e: With Wallace, for example, if he'd actually mattered beyond just occasionally showing up to stop the movie dead and twirl his mustache, it would have been fine. Hell, cut out everything with him on-camera except his scene with Deckard and he suddenly works a lot better. Villenueve just used a heavy hand where a light touch would have been preferable. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 30, 2020 |
# ? Jan 30, 2020 20:23 |
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I think it's the stories about his method acting, especially in regards to Suicide Squad, that does the heavy lifting in getting people to dislike him. Plus he seems to give the impression that he thinks he's an actor two orders of magnitude better than he actually is (that could just be a media creation, in all fairness). Thing is, he's an alright actor, but he keeps being given roles that require more talent than he has, and it keeps happening, which means there's always a reason to be annoyed at him. I think the idea of Wallace is excellent by itself though. An intelligent man that's entirely bought into his own hype, and living in the shadow of actual genius. He reflects our current reality of insecure tech bros acting like messiahs. A better actor could really have brought the emotional fragility of that existence to life.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 20:42 |
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Bug Squash posted:I think the idea of Wallace is excellent by itself though. An intelligent man that's entirely bought into his own hype, and living in the shadow of actual genius. He reflects our current reality of insecure tech bros acting like messiahs. A better actor could really have brought the emotional fragility of that existence to life. Yeah, on the page, the character makes sense. He's a hyperbolic take on a tech bro billionaire, a "visionary" capitalist who's arrogant to the point he believes he's a god. Leto handles that aspect...fine, I guess. But there's no subtlety or nuance in it, he's all bluster and menace and grandiosity. The thought I had leaving the movie was how much better it'd be if Wallace had, like, a false warmth to him. If he felt paternal or empathic but then did the violent, hosed-up stuff he does. Ironically, the actor that came to mind when I imagined that version of the character was Stellan Skarsgård. I guess I'm getting my Villeneuve / Skarsgård fix this year.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 21:27 |
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Like, that's the thing about Leto that I notice. He's not a bad actor by any means and, if he has good material, he can actually do really remarkably well with it. But he just keeps being given the absolute worst material... Then he and/or his agents suck at choosing roles that suit him.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 21:59 |
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Bug Squash posted:He reflects our current reality of insecure tech bros acting like messiahs. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 30, 2020 |
# ? Jan 30, 2020 22:11 |
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I’m reading Dune for the first time right now and all that keeps going through my head is how George Lucas shamelessly ripped this off when developing the Star Wars Saga
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 22:27 |
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Which is kind of what Star Wars is in all aspects. Random bits shamelessly sliced off other properties, blended into a more accessible form for a mass audience. It's Dune, but also it's a western and a WW2 dogfight movie and a samurai movie and a fantasy epic. With some Ben Hur and a little bit of Triumph of the Will and a little John Carter of Mars. It's pure pastiche, and nakedly so.
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# ? Jan 30, 2020 22:53 |
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It's not like there's all that much that's original to Dune, either. The novel works as well as it does because it's stylization elevates/disguises what is otherwise a rote plot.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 00:24 |
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On the one hand, there's clearly a lot of allegory in Dune. On the other hand, I have a hard time believing anyone would call it rote. You have to really drill down to the core elements of the plot to say that it's just a monomyth story. Surely there is a reason that Dune is getting its third screen adaptation while so many 1960s science fiction books about expanded consciousness and heroes with psychic powers are forgotten.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 00:49 |
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Rando posted:Then he and/or his agents suck at choosing roles that suit him. The roles are all good on paper, though. Joker has typically been a character where whoever plays him gets to put on an acting masterclass. Niander Wallace is a successor of sorts to one of the more memorable supporting characters in the original BR. Any actor would be batshit crazy to turn those down, and yet, when Leto gets these kinds of roles, it's when everyone else decides it's time for that character to be some low effort garbo. e: Like, this is why you should read entire posts instead of just deciding everything after the part you wanted to respond to doesn't matter. WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 31, 2020 |
# ? Jan 31, 2020 02:20 |
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My impression of Leto is that he's ok I guess, but that he seems vastly more concerned with being seen as a serious artist than he is actually doing anything that warrants that description. He just seems like someone who thinks going method, or whatever he thinks method acting is, is enough to qualify as good. My favorite Leto trivia is the time he gained 70 pounds and gave himself gout for a movie absolutely no one cares about or remembers.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 02:33 |
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wizardofloneliness posted:My impression of Leto is that he's ok I guess, but that he seems vastly more concerned with being seen as a serious artist than he is actually doing anything that warrants that description. He just seems like someone who thinks going method, or whatever he thinks method acting is, is enough to qualify as good. It took me a little while to work out that the thread was discussing the famous actor Jared Leto, not the fictional nobleman Leto Atreides. I think I should get some sleep.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 02:48 |
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I watched The King on Netflix with Timothee Chalamet and I wasnt exactly impressed.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 04:16 |
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Arglebargle III posted:On the one hand, there's clearly a lot of allegory in Dune. On the other hand, I have a hard time believing anyone would call it rote. You have to really drill down to the core elements of the plot to say that it's just a monomyth story. Surely there is a reason that Dune is getting its third screen adaptation while so many 1960s science fiction books about expanded consciousness and heroes with psychic powers are forgotten. There is a rote form to the central plot, but that's part of the point. Paul goes on a hero's journey so Dune can interrogate the nature of a hero. He's a dude who fits himself into a ready-made myth so he can use it to empower his revenge and restoration. He's not a chosen one, but he's made by his and others' hands into one. But that's just one of the many concepts the book is exploring. It's plots within plots, schemes within schemes.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 04:22 |
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Schwarzwald posted:It's not like there's all that much that's original to Dune, either. The novel works as well as it does because it's stylization elevates/disguises what is otherwise a rote plot. Maybe it was the years of hype, but it seemed to me that the whole book was actually building up to a joke. All the little chapter headers are great, and most of them are from hagiographies written by the princess that Paul marries at the end of the book. But at the end of the book Paul says something like, 'I heard Princess [name] likes history. I hope its true, because she is getting the contractual minimum from me.' Just a really weird disconnect from the reputation the book has.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 04:30 |
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SHISHKABOB posted:I watched The King on Netflix with Timothee Chalamet and I wasnt exactly impressed. I thought he did well. He's kind of a shrimpy, boy-ish looking guy who nevertheless can speak with authority, and assuming that wasn't a double in all the fight scenes, he can do that pretty well too. Nothing to get super excited about but he'll be fine as Paul The King's writing didn't exactly give him primo material to work with, either
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 04:45 |
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I thought he was bad in The King but he was really good in Call Me By Your Name and Little Women, so who knows what he'll be like in Dune. I love Kyle MacLachlan, but even I don't think he was a perfect fit for Paul. What I think he sells well though is his transition from innocent and dopey to a leader of the Fremen. That whole section is rushed, but MacLachlan sells the shift in his character.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 05:16 |
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SHISHKABOB posted:I watched The King on Netflix with Timothee Chalamet and I wasnt exactly impressed. If we're basing our Dune opinions on The King then Robert Pattison should play Feyd.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 05:35 |
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If we're fan casting then I want Gilbert Gottfried to be the Emperor "Y'know, is it just me or are people obsessed with the spice?? MelANGE - they gotta have it!"
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 07:05 |
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Cacator posted:If we're basing our Dune opinions on The King then Robert Pattison should play Feyd.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 08:15 |
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PeterWeller posted:There is a rote form to the central plot, but that's part of the point. Paul goes on a hero's journey so Dune can interrogate the nature of a hero. He's a dude who fits himself into a ready-made myth so he can use it to empower his revenge and restoration. He's not a chosen one, but he's made by his and others' hands into one. But that's just one of the many concepts the book is exploring. It's plots within plots, schemes within schemes. Frank Herbert's main idea was arguing against the "Great Man" theory of history by showing a messianic revolutionary hero who is, inevitably, a product of greater historical forces and movements that he can't control. Of course there's also a lot about ecology and human development (there are strict rules against "thinking machines" in the Imperium, so they're replaced by hyper-trained Mentats and Bene Gesserit, and the Guild need spice to do their advanced hyperspace calculations, hence he who controls the spice... etc.) Even splitting it up into two movies I doubt they'll be able to catch absolutely everything.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 08:44 |
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My takeaway from Jared Leto chat is that he is the actor equivalent of Triple H. Guy is a 7 but acts like he's a 9 so he comes off as a 5.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 09:27 |
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I think Herbert was also arguing against some of the themes in Asimov's Foundation trilogy. Herbert's writing style was to often take other sci-fi stories and flip the themes around and challenge them. In the case of Dune he was saying that prescience is a really dangerous thing in the hands of a tyrant, whereas Asimov's psychohistorians save the galaxy in Foundation. Herbert had a strong libertarian streak and distrusted centralized governments and technocrats. I think he flipped the protagonist/antagonist relationiship around as well. In Dune, Asimov's antagonist -- the Mule -- becomes Herbert's protagonist in Paul; the unexpected variable that was not predicted and that throws off the well-laid plans of the psychohistorians, Asimov's protagonists who become Herbert's antagonists in the Bene Gesserit. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jan 31, 2020 |
# ? Jan 31, 2020 09:59 |
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habituallyred posted:Maybe it was the years of hype, but it seemed to me that the whole book was actually building up to a joke. All the little chapter headers are great, and most of them are from hagiographies written by the princess that Paul marries at the end of the book. But at the end of the book Paul says something like, 'I heard Princess [name] likes history. I hope its true, because she is getting the contractual minimum from me.' Just a really weird disconnect from the reputation the book has. lol But they're just sci-fi novels, with Herbert playing with other sci-fi concepts and flipping themes around. I believe he talked about his methods and also criticism of Asimov in "Maker of Dune" which is a collection of his essays published after his death. I have a copy sitting in a box somewhere.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 10:06 |
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habituallyred posted:Maybe it was the years of hype, but it seemed to me that the whole book was actually building up to a joke Lord of Light came into being because Roger Zelazny wanted to include the pun "then the fit hit the Shan" in a book.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 10:30 |
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Vincent posted:And keep the accent. This but from The Lighthouse
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 10:40 |
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PeterWeller posted:There is a rote form to the central plot, but that's part of the point. Paul goes on a hero's journey so Dune can interrogate the nature of a hero. He's a dude who fits himself into a ready-made myth so he can use it to empower his revenge and restoration. He's not a chosen one, but he's made by his and others' hands into one. But that's just one of the many concepts the book is exploring. It's plots within plots, schemes within schemes. Yeah what this guy said.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 11:46 |
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Maxwell Lord posted:Frank Herbert's main idea was arguing against the "Great Man" theory of history by showing a messianic revolutionary hero who is, inevitably, a product of greater historical forces and movements that he can't control. Of course there's also a lot about ecology and human development (there are strict rules against "thinking machines" in the Imperium, so they're replaced by hyper-trained Mentats and Bene Gesserit, and the Guild need spice to do their advanced hyperspace calculations, hence he who controls the spice... etc.) Yeah. Here's a link to the article where Herbert discusses his intentions. Sure, Intentional Fallacy/"Death of the Author", but Dune's narrative rhetoric clearly supports this intended reading. https://archive.org/stream/OMNI197908/OMNI_1980_07#page/n39/mode/2up BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I think Herbert was also arguing against some of the themes in Asimov's Foundation trilogy. Herbert's writing style was to often take other sci-fi stories and flip the themes around and challenge them. In the case of Dune he was saying that prescience is a really dangerous thing in the hands of a tyrant, whereas Asimov's psychohistorians save the galaxy in Foundation. Herbert had a strong libertarian streak and distrusted centralized governments and technocrats. Yeah, I think you're right. John Grigsby has written a couple of articles about this. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jan 31, 2020 |
# ? Jan 31, 2020 14:52 |
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habituallyred posted:All the little chapter headers are great, and most of them are from hagiographies written by the princess that Paul marries at the end of the book. But at the end of the book Paul says something like, 'I heard Princess [name] likes history. I hope its true, because she is getting the contractual minimum from me.' Actually it was Jessica who says it at the end. Basically she and Chani are watching Paul make his power play at the end of the book and Jessica sees that Chani is starting to feel like Paul is casting aside and is all like "lol you're gonna cuck the poo poo out of that spoiled bitch." It's the first sign that the later books are going to get super horny.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 15:02 |
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Tree Bucket posted:It took me a little while to work out that the thread was discussing the famous actor Jared Leto, not the fictional nobleman Leto Atreides. I think I should get some sleep. Duke Leto and Baron Harkonnen feuding and declaring a war of assassins because Leto only got the most minimal gains.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 15:56 |
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Cacator posted:If we're basing our Dune opinions on The King then Robert Pattison should play Feyd. Holy poo poo this would own. Schwarzwald posted:It's not like there's all that much that's original to Dune, either. The novel works as well as it does because it's stylization elevates/disguises what is otherwise a rote plot. Yeah but just on even a superficial level A New Hope has moisture farmers and spice smugglers on desert planet with two suns and "sand people" and a mysterious, almost magic-like ability called And while it wasn't in the final movie at all, Lucas himself has said Dune was a huge influence, and in earlier versions of the script there were even feuding houses and guilds instead of just the empire and rebels and instead of The Important Thing being the death star plans it was a formula for "aura spice."
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 16:08 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:57 |
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All of the realpolitik and palace intrigue was saved for the prequels. The trade federation is basically just CHOAM, the senate is the Landsraad etc.
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# ? Jan 31, 2020 16:28 |