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fyi according to the wapo just nowquote:While many Republicans have expressed hopes that the expected failure of a vote to call new witnesses would mean a rapid end to Trump’s impeachment trial, officials are warning that might not be the case.
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Jan 31, 2020 17:54
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ManBoyChef posted:unless he brings a microphone with him how do you think he looks like a podcaster? White guy, unkempt beard
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Jan 31, 2020 17:56
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John Wick of Dogs posted:White guy, unkempt beard How do you differentiate from a self-published Sci-Fi author?
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Jan 31, 2020 18:00
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Munkeymon posted:These are both good, so Bloomberg for Benevolent Dictator for Life IMO 😜 the best part is he made the explicit decision to make the city actively antagonistic to anyone who made less than 100K, in the name of making it a playground for the super-rich he's the realignment the Third Way people were trying to make happen in 2016 incarnate. a party that believes in civil rights in the abstract and purging all those icky poors from anywhere near where they live in practice. Flip Yr Wig posted:For those that just stumbled into the thread for the day, could the people debating the merits of left authoritarianism in the wake of the acquittal actually define what policies and political strategies they're talking about? one of the dipshits pushing it got probed for it, and the other one's an anprim weirdo whose explicit endgame is the death of 90% of the human population. number two I can easily shut down, number one i'm not going to pretend to speak for. i'd really like some arguments for shutting people like that down beyond saying 'that could end badly,' though, for the reasons I've laid out.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:00
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BiggerBoat posted:Now let me tell how John Kerry is a flip flopper and how Warren used to be conservative! This is just how morons think. Obama shouldn't be elected, he doesn't have enough political experience! Oh, we should elect Trump because he's not a career politician!
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Jan 31, 2020 18:01
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the argument that a more authoritarian left movement would be bad, because the people in charge might make bad decisions, is EFFORTLESSLY dismissed with "and under the current ones they're signing off on concentration camps on grounds it beats opposing the republicans." the lesson of 2016 is this: give people a choice between the devil they know and the devil they don't, and they'll pick option 2, because there's a chance he might refocus some of the pain on someone else. and here, that lesson bites down hard. Bull and poo poo. You are arguing literally nothing but "my side is good. The wolves would never eat MY face." Even leftists are not all on the same side and you are displaying either massive ignorance or massive privilege to assume your theoretical progressive dictatorship will not end up making GBS threads on vulnerable people. What happens if your dictatorship is run by a TERF? Or a progressive in most areas casual homophobe? Or by someone who pretends to be progressive but is abusing women behind closed doors. This isn't hand-wringing. This is something vulnerable leftists have to deal with even from people "on their side" and needs to be answered with something besides "but other side bad!" Edit: He'll, what about religion? I know plenty of far-left people who view being anti-religious as a sign of being progressive. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 18:02
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eke out posted:fyi according to the wapo just now "Ok but we need time to explain why more information on our decision was a bad thing."
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Jan 31, 2020 18:02
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Flip Yr Wig posted:For those that just stumbled into the thread for the day, could the people debating the merits of left authoritarianism in the wake of the acquittal actually define what policies and political strategies they're talking about? The defenses of authoritarianism are off-putting and clearly incorrect but I’m somewhat sympathetic to people who look at our trajectory on climate action and only see a possible solution if an empowered executive could do poo poo like unilaterally nationalize certain industries or force compliance without letting a legislature that kowtows to chuds and plutocrats muck up the process. Doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong tho. But it’s an extension of the “if I was in charge I’d make this important thing, this other important thing, and this third important thing happen” thought process and I can’t really fault people for entertaining it when poo poo always feels so dire. Like the Primary Thread had a “what would you do if you were Lex Luthor” chat the other day. It was fun.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the best part is he made the explicit decision to make the city actively antagonistic to anyone who made less than 100K, in the name of making it a playground for the super-rich Well, it's not like we don't have multiple examples over the last hundred years or so of authoritarian countries running what we view as left leaning policies that had atrocious human rights records and eventually collapsed due to those broken systems (usually after creating huge global problems and/or gently caress-tons of people dying) or yanked the curtains down and just went full on "Whatever benefits dear leader".
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Jan 31, 2020 18:11
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JehovahsWetness posted:I guess it's acquittal day. this right motherfucking here "yes the president did it" "NOT GUILTY!" "we all know he did it." "INOOCENT!!" "there's no doubt in anyone's mind." "READ THE TRANSCRIPTS PERFECT PHONE CALL!!" "but we just need to move on" "THE MOST INNOCENT AND HARRESED PRESIDENT EVER!!" "and let the people" "NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG IN MY LIFE!!" "decide." "COMPLETELY EXHONERATED!!! READ THE TRANSCRIPTS NO QUID PRO QUO!!" "what value is there in reaffirming what we all know?" "TRUMP 2024 KEEP AMERICIA GRAPES!!"
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Jan 31, 2020 18:12
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Are y'all arguing with YMB or just repeatedly quoting the wrong posts? Because the point they're making is not the one you're apparently responding to. Which is, by my reading: 'Authoritarianism is bad, but if you want to persuade people who are growing sympathetic to authoritarian leftism, away from those sympathies, you're going to have to do better than "but they might do things you strongly disagree with" because that's already happening a lot.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:15
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I'm not really sure what we are going to do if Trump gets a second term, besides hoping that he dies quickly.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:15
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ImpAtom posted:Bull and poo poo. and what did you learn, in 2016, about the effectiveness of "The wolves would never eat MY face" vs. "no really they're gonna eat your face, so just sit there and let us keep munching on it." this is hand-wringing. hand-wringing about a genuine problem. but it's hand-wringing. and you have seen what the results are when hand-wringing goes up against a positive vision of the future, no matter how blatant and monstrous its likely failure states are. you need to advocate a positive vision of the future that does not share those failure states to hold that monstrosity back. "ah, c'mon, it's not bad enough to gamble on those crazy assholes yet" has been tried, and it failed miserably.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:16
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WorldsStongestNerd posted:The problem is that you've been duped by the propaganda that aggressively fighting back is becoming a "ghoul" like they are. You also seem to think that a given tactic has the same moral value regardless if what it is in service of. That seems like quite a jump from thinking "suffering is bad and should be alleviated" to thinking "suffering is bad but not for people I deem not worthy of help". I am very much for fighting back aggressively, but I am very loving much against human suffering, no matter how colossally stupid the recipients may or may not be. And again, there's an element of pure spite in me that believes the best punishment is friendbot's method - help flip a state so blue that several counties want to leave and join another state. Electric Bugaloo posted:Nah. If a buttload of racist white American olds who wanna see people who look like me die in the desert got coronavirus and choked on their own inflamed lungs the country would be measurably better. I really have no rebuttal for this, one because it's true I have a fraction of the skin in the game like you do. I realize I am speaking from a position of privilege, and I'm sincerely sorry for that and for coming off as naive. Two, you're actually doing something positive by forming a PAC. I don't have any pacs at all. I'm going to donate what I can, once I get some extra scratch. Volunteer, do something, get involved because it's a historically great time to do that! Just remember, I really do believe you guys are better than the ghouls out there. Be at least a little kinder than the monsters you rightfully hate.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:16
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:and what did you learn, in 2016, about the effectiveness of "The wolves would never eat MY face" vs. "no really they're gonna eat your face, so just sit there and let us keep munching on it." Then you can't succeed because "I will fix everything with my unlimited power" can't be beaten in positive visions.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:20
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:and what did you learn, in 2016, about the effectiveness of "The wolves would never eat MY face" vs. "no really they're gonna eat your face, so just sit there and let us keep munching on it." So what exactly are you advocating here, YMB? I’m having trouble parsing it.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:20
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Electric Bugaloo posted:The defenses of authoritarianism are off-putting and clearly incorrect but I’m somewhat sympathetic to people who look at our trajectory on climate action and only see a possible solution if an empowered executive could do poo poo like unilaterally nationalize certain industries or force compliance without letting a legislature that kowtows to chuds and plutocrats muck up the process. IMO 'lex luthor' discussions are kinda part and parcel of a consumerist, egocentric attitude towards politics that is all too prevalent in leftist circles. And its always been a short step from such an attitude to wishing for a strongman that just happens to mirror your every view be in power and run roughshod over everyone you disagree with.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:20
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https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/1223290139679567872 bolton''s good at this
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Jan 31, 2020 18:20
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haveblue posted:Glad to see we're back in another "welcome to 1000 years of republican darkness" thread era, I've missed it We did that yesterday, except it was retirement accounts instead of government.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:21
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Why are people acting like old people getting locked out of a Trump rally is some kind of human rights violation? Just go the gently caress home! You're not "trapped in the cold" or whatever, you are voluntarily at a nazi rally and the nazis have locked you out. Go home and learn something from this.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:22
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Yes, but it was a bluff. The appropriate response to Republicans calling for Biden to testify is to tell them to do it. Lindsey loving Graham is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee he can subpoena him anytime he wants. Making any kind of deal on the question of witnesses would lend legitimacy to the Republican lie that Biden has any bearing on the matter. The goal here is to make the Republicans show their rear end and they are doing exactly that. Removal was never on the table, this has always been about showing the American people exactly who the Republican party is.  until it does, this constant pessimism is no more rational than the #resistance fanfiction that supercop Mueller would drag Trump away in handcuffs.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:22
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/1223290139679567872 The man's a soulless bureaucracy elemental. Of course he's good at this.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:24
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https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1223295599681986560 this is actually a moderately big deal between totally changing the time line and that Cippollone was involved from the start (we already kinda new this but Bolton would testify that)
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Jan 31, 2020 18:25
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DreamingofRoses posted:So what exactly are you advocating here, YMB? I’m having trouble parsing it. the issue I see is that it is obvious to all parties a compromise-based system of American government is well and truly dead. the question of what will replace it, as escalating climate crises hit, is probably going to define most of your and my adult lives. when I said the amprim idiot i can shut down, it's because it's very easy to formulate a positive vision better than his: "let's not kill 90% of the earth's population in the name of your flagellatory bloodlust." when someone argues that a more authoritarian left is a worthwhile goal, things get a lot hazier, because the current structure of the Democratic Party is such that it wields -no- authority outside its own membership, by the active design of its leadership over the past thirty years, and anyone arguing that the Dems should start acting like a party that has political goals it seeks to accomplish is met with "oh, so you want us to act like Republicans?" it is the opposite of surprising that this is met with a screamed "YES, YOU loving COWARDS, YOU SIGNED OFF ON CONCENTRATION CAMPS BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WANT TO ACT LIKE THEM." you need to ennumerate your positive vision of the future, that avoids concentration camps and stalinism both. because if you give me the choice between continuing to sign off on death camps for the untermenschen and Let's Make Alexandria Occasio-Cortez Stalin 2: She Says She Won't Eat My Face, not gonna lie, i'm going to have a hard time not picking option two.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:34
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So I guess any time in the future the president brings up the impeachment trial and calls it a sham or hoax trial he will be right.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:36
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:IMO 'lex luthor' discussions are kinda part and parcel of a consumerist, egocentric attitude towards politics that is all too prevalent in leftist circles. And its always been a short step from such an attitude to wishing for a strongman that just happens to mirror your every view be in power and run roughshod over everyone you disagree with. There's also a lot of different flavors that mix things up. Do away with the executive? Now legislature is more or less deadlocked once the elections stabilize to 51% approval rate Focus on putting high education people into roles? End up like China, where their engineer-run nation will execute 49% of the population if it benefits the other 51% because the math adds up. Go full dictator with someone who seems on the up and up? Lmao Ultimately there isn't anything wrong with the US' model of government, the issues lies in the citizenry that is extremely hostile to the idea of being wrong. I know, "you are not immune to propaganda", but that goes every which way. Critical thinking is not encouraged, and that creates situations like we have today. If we can fix the people then the system will fall in line. Is compromise possible? Sure, but not when one party is full of loving nazis.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:37
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Literally Kermit posted:Two, you're actually doing something positive by forming a PAC. I don't have any pacs at all. I'm going to donate what I can, once I get some extra scratch. Volunteer, do something, get involved because it's a historically great time to do that! Bruh, GOONPAC is not a real pac. It says so in the OP. It’s a list of cool candidates and a hugbox for people who wanna support them. Do not send the FEC after my—or Lowtax’s—rear end. As for the unquoted rest of your post you sound like a classic white incrementalist to me, and my tolerance for that kind of rhetoric online, and in my meatspace life, is wearing thin. It reminds me of the calls for civility from the NYT set to Dr King while he was alive and the whitewashing of his, and the broader civil rights movement’s, legacy by white establishmentarians after his death. This is a cold civil war, and they drew first blood (and second blood, and third blood, and fourth blood) not me. Skex posted:The appropriate response to Republicans calling for Biden to testify is to tell them to do it. Lindsey loving Graham is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee he can subpoena him anytime he wants. The post you’re quoting pretty much agrees with you.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:40
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Elon Musk is the biggest loving idiot on the planet so I guess we're gonna die https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1223172311546724352?s=20
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Jan 31, 2020 18:40
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https://twitter.com/mjcontrera/status/1223299951989608449 "I mean, have you seen my wife?"
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Jan 31, 2020 18:42
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oxsnard posted:Elon Musk is the biggest loving idiot on the planet so I guess we're gonna die He released a bizarre-rear end track this week, hence the EDM nomenclature change
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Jan 31, 2020 18:43
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https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1223298424935735296?s=20
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Jan 31, 2020 18:48
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https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/1223301661726330888 seems like maybe some unrelated crime that accidentally ended up at mar-a-lago? idk trump's not there now anyways
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Jan 31, 2020 18:49
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oxsnard posted:Elon Musk is the biggest loving idiot on the planet so I guess we're gonna die So glad this idiot can't run for president, because I'm sure he would if he could
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Jan 31, 2020 18:50
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Musk would be in Yang's cabinet.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:52
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oxsnard posted:Elon Musk is the biggest loving idiot on the planet so I guess we're gonna die I literally hate to praise Musk but he's not wrong on this. Corona is having some major issues with it functionally presenting the same as a flu right up until the whole horrific shift thing and there's actually a really bad flu strain right now (hey folks if you want a disease to be scared of, be scared of how we keep getting worse and worse flu outbreaks!!!!!. There's a lot of confusion between Corona and similar illnesses, even at death in some cases. It probably does have a bad mortality rate for what it is but it's not 100% clear yet.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:54
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Bruh, GOONPAC is not a real pac. It says so in the OP. It’s a list of cool candidates and a hugbox for people who wanna support them. Do not send the FEC after my—or Lowtax’s—rear end. Well I am all for a good hugbox and I'm no snitch, so I'm going to get involved anyway! As for the unquoted rest of your post, is it okay if we take it to PMs? I had some general questions.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:54
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eke out posted:fyi according to the wapo just now
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Jan 31, 2020 18:54
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so I guess I'm not really 'agreeing' with him since he's saying it won't be worse than influenza when that's literally impossible even if there is some over-correcting going on.
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Jan 31, 2020 18:55
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Ague Proof posted:Musk would be in Yang's cabinet. Look, I know you had no way of knowing I just ate but 
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Jan 31, 2020 18:57
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https://twitter.com/joelockhart/status/1223300504652013568
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