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Senator Hirono kicking rear end: "(Trump) is an unhinged, lawless person. He lies every single day." "We are witnessing the coronation of Trump as King with Mitch McConnell holding the crown and the Republicans holding the train."
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Jan 31, 2020 21:19
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Deteriorata posted:They're deliberate plants spreading Republican propaganda. This is a bit misleading. They could very well be Russian plants. Distinctions are important (except in this case when they're two sides/same coin).
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Jan 31, 2020 21:22
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trump either wins the next election or files so many lawsuits he gets to stay in office another 4 years because we don't want the will of the minority to be over ridden by the tyranny of the majority.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:23
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DandyLion posted:This is a bit misleading. it's 100% more likely they're just some freak from the state RNC office and not some Russian psy-op, though.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:25
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So "Ok YEAH, he did it, and YEAH it was a crime, and YEAH it was impeachable, but meehhhh we just don't wanna do anything about it" is the position now? Cool cool
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Jan 31, 2020 21:39
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Apparently this morning, Parnas and his lawyers delivered a letter to Senator McConnell laying out exactly what he would testify about if he was called. The letter's on Bondy's twitter in full. https://twitter.com/josephabondy/status/1223331368618418176 It is... pretty specific.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:41
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Data Graham posted:So "Ok YEAH, he did it, and YEAH it was a crime, and YEAH it was impeachable, but meehhhh we just don't wanna do anything about it" It's basically "Yeah, he did it, but it would be really bad for the country if we held him accountable" It lines up pretty well with their voters, who mostly know he did something wrong, but still don't want him to be removed because that would mean they lost.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:41
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It's really dumb that's what they're going with because it just pisses every one off. Trump's people will accept nothing less than slavish deference, and no one's going to applaud their courage for saying thing bad while doing nothing about the bad thing.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:43
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Data Graham posted:So "Ok YEAH, he did it, and YEAH it was a crime, and YEAH it was impeachable, but meehhhh we just don't wanna do anything about it" People been saying in USPOL for years that the trajectory of the GOP would go: 1) He didn't do it 2) Fine, he did it, but it's not a crime 3) Fine, he did it, and it's a crime, but who cares? We are solidly into part 3 now.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:50
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Philbin arguing that the House rushed the process, which is bad, therefore the Senate should rush the process, which is good.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:57
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Ignoranus posted:Apparently this morning, Parnas and his lawyers delivered a letter to Senator McConnell laying out exactly what he would testify about if he was called. The letter's on Bondy's twitter in full. That seems to be gone Nm
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Jan 31, 2020 21:58
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ImpAtom posted:That seems to be gone Nah it's still there. Twitter is acting up a little bit right now.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:58
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Didn't Sekulow have the opportunity to cross-examine everyone but they refused to come to the House investigation sessions?
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Jan 31, 2020 22:01
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Sekulow trying to make the case against witnesses by pointing out how valuable cross-examining them would be.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:01
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Ignoranus posted:Apparently this morning, Parnas and his lawyers delivered a letter to Senator McConnell laying out exactly what he would testify about if he was called. The letter's on Bondy's twitter in full. Would love for the house managers to read this out loud
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Jan 31, 2020 22:02
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Kloaked00 posted:Would love for the house managers to read this out loud I want somebody who's in the room to just print a bunch of copies and start throwing them around the chamber. Edit: If I was a senator I absolutely would have a tantrum on the Senate floor today. Kicking and screaming and everything. The thought of shouting into John Roberts' face until he has me removed. Ah that's the stuff.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:02
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:People been saying in USPOL for years that the trajectory of the GOP would go: This new wrinkle of "yeah it's a crime but it's not a BAD crime" and "ok yeah it's a BAD crime but not so bad that we think anything should be done about it" is taking me some time to come to grips with. So from now on we can describe any kind of behavior short of .... okay you know what, I was going to say "literal treason" as being Presidential behavior, but honestly I'm having difficulty thinking of a form of treason that they wouldn't be able to find a way to rationalize. At least the acquittal statement will necessarily be absolutely clear about this line of "reasoning" and won't say he's getting off due to lack of evidence. For whatever that's worth.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:06
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Jaxyon posted:Can I have that link Yes. But also no. Here it is. But it has a paywall because our government likes to charge us money to read court transcripts. Cost me  , goddamnit.  I'm not sure if I'm allow to redistribute this transcript because I paid for it, despite it being public record. Does any know if that's allowed? If so, I'll toss it on my server and post a link. Anyway, The section in question is this wonderful exchange, starting at the end of Page 88: THE LITERAL TRANSCRIPT posted:THE COURT: Well, let me ask, was, in the Department's view, former Chief Judge Sirica wrong to disclose the Watergate roadmap to the House for purposes of its impeachment proceeding? Usually there's audio available. And it's usually free. But not in this case for some reason.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:06
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lol Sekulow arguing that due process demands that the Senate spend weeks questioning witnesses...therefore there should be no witnesses.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:07
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Thom12255 posted:Didn't Sekulow have the opportunity to cross-examine everyone but they refused to come to the House investigation sessions? They've already argued several times that it's the House's fault for failing to do things they successfully obstructed, what's one more?
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Jan 31, 2020 22:08
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SubG posted:lol Sekulow arguing that due process demands that the Senate spend weeks questioning witnesses...therefore there should be no witnesses. I'm glad I'm not Adam Schiff. That's the point at which I jump over the railing and try to throttle him with my bare hands.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:08
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Xaiter posted:But it has a paywall because our government likes to charge us money to read court transcripts. Cost me and yeah you can host and share PACER documents (archiving and sharing them for free is RECAP's whole deal) it's probably already available and free on recap somewhere: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/
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Jan 31, 2020 22:13
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House Of Cards option: Dem Sens vote for witnesses; motion fails... call for vote to acquit, all Dem Sens leave the building and protest together. Trump is acquitted, and a full two news cycles play 'both sides' on whether or not the result actually exonerates Trump (while right wing media attacks the dems for dereliction of duty in service of partisanship or some such). West Wing option: 'The People' stand with the dem sens, and the chief justice walks out of the trial to join them. The News Cycle declares the whole process corrupt, and protests rise puerto rico style demanding the senators and president resign. reality: house has to decide, based on the outcome, whether to take another shot and essentially 'DDoS' the senate with impeachments until the election - or to just 'move on', and focus on winning in November (most likely) Still /possible/ that some unexpected 'yes' vote extends the trial and brings bolton in to testify, but I ain't gunna believe that 'til the vote has happened. And almost certain that more details of criminal activity, implicating a larger and larger set of people (who we already know to be involved) come out every day for some time.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:25
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It is so sad listening to Schiff waste all this oratory on a group that isn't even listening. It's also sad that none of these House Managers are following Nadler's lead from the first day and just laying out that the Senate Republicans are a bunch of corrupt bootlickers.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:28
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You guys watching this after we already know that witnesses are getting voted down and he's getting acquitted are masochists.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:30
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I know he's a corporatist but Schiff seems to be a drat good attorney. I have really enjoyed hearing him argue this case.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:30
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Schiff reading that retired VA republican senator's statement now lol
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Jan 31, 2020 22:32
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You know Schiff thinks this whole impeachment stuff is going to get him a senate seat.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:34
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https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1223313204106973184
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Jan 31, 2020 22:35
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Woah, what a take Hayes. The calculus is unreal.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:38
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Data Graham posted:This new wrinkle of "yeah it's a crime but it's not a BAD crime" and "ok yeah it's a BAD crime but not so bad that we think anything should be done about it" is taking me some time to come to grips with. So from now on we can describe any kind of behavior short of .... okay you know what, I was going to say "literal treason" as being Presidential behavior, but honestly I'm having difficulty thinking of a form of treason that they wouldn't be able to find a way to rationalize. Presidents by definition cannot commit treason because they believe they're doing something in the national interest. That's the principle, and it can be pretty easily applied.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:41
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Presidents by definition cannot commit treason because they believe they're doing something in the national interest. That's the principle, and it can be pretty easily applied. Next headline. Trump gives classified nuclear, military secrets to Russia.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:43
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Meridian posted:Woah, what a take Hayes. The calculus is unreal. I said the exact same thing in the other thread LOL
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Jan 31, 2020 22:51
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I'm sorry was there something anyone could do about John Roberts if he doesn't choose to look clean? Because I'm pretty sure that motherfucker is the most untouchable one of the lot.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:53
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Djarum posted:Next headline. He already leaked classified Israeli info to Russia. (That didn't seem to bring about any pro-Israel outrage... funny how that works.)
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Jan 31, 2020 22:55
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mdemone posted:I'm sorry was there something anyone could do about John Roberts if he doesn't choose to look clean? They know their majority on the court is illegitimate and will have to be dealt with sooner or later. It's all a public opinion game.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:56
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Data Graham posted:but honestly I'm having difficulty thinking of a form of treason that they wouldn't be able to find a way to rationalize. the kind where a democrat does it. We need to stop trying to figure out how their minds work. Their minds don't work. They are nihilists.
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Jan 31, 2020 22:57
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mdemone posted:I'm sorry was there something anyone could do about John Roberts if he doesn't choose to look clean? He could be impeached for abusing his power for political gain.
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Jan 31, 2020 23:03
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KodiakRS posted:He could be impeached for abusing his power for political gain. OK, you got me, I laughed pretty hard at this one
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Jan 31, 2020 23:05
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Yeah imagine if a judge allowed witnesses in a trial
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Jan 31, 2020 23:11
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