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InsertPotPun posted:what'd you do with that time? i'm working on a book!
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Feb 1, 2020 18:43
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i'm working on a book! go dog go?
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Feb 1, 2020 18:44
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Helsing posted:The ACA was designed and implemented in a way that largely disguised its benefits from much of the public while making its numerous and very serious flaws highly visible, and besides that the ACA didn't even really accomplish its own stated goals, as demonstrated by the fact that literally every candidate in the Democratic primary now proposes massive modifications to it. If the ACA is your idea of a good government intervention into the economy then you really need to recalibrate. I suppose the New Deal was also bad because FDR wanted to do a second one 
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Feb 1, 2020 18:45
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https://twitter.com/henrynathanmia/status/1223637403937755136?s=20
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Feb 1, 2020 18:45
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InsertPotPun posted:what'd you do with that time? You appear to have missed the point. The ACA was not a positive step forward for many people. It was an onerous tax that provided no benefit but was crammed down the throats of the working poor and they were told they should swallow their poo poo sandwich and be grateful. It wasn't a very good thing at all. It was, in fact, very bad and made a lot of people very upset, and the inability to understand that or even care about it is exactly the kind of thinking that directly led to Trump. Millions of people were covered with plans that provided little to no real benefit and would still bankrupt them if they had a major medical emergency, and they were expected to pay thousands of dollars a year for the privilege. And they couldn't opt out because the IRS would take thousands of dollars at once from them at the end of the year. The ACA as implemented was worse for many, many people than their status quo of no coverage at all.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:46
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Guessing there's no double jeopardy for Impeachment
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Feb 1, 2020 18:46
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Nix Panicus posted:I bet someday we find out about a backroom deal where the Republicans were willing to call witnesses if they could get a Biden on the stand, and the Democrats refused because the whole impeachment was really about protecting their own How would that deal work, exactly? Republicans had a majority. They could have called Biden and just ignored the Democrats.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:49
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Positive posts only! Stop saying nothing matters! We’re gonna be fine! The republicans are gonna lose in November and they will not cheat their way to victory this time!
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Feb 1, 2020 18:49
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Angry_Ed posted:Guessing there's no double jeopardy for Impeachment Nope. Can be done as frequently as the House can stomach it.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:50
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InsertPotPun posted:the ACA was a step forward and a very good thing for literally millions of americans and it got turned into an attack. if the democrats voted to give every american $100 the GOP would turn it into an attack ad and there would be youtube videos of chuds burning hundred dollar bills or "obamabucks" I have, the fine is very visible when you do taxes, and I can imagine similar emotions of many other people who have paid this fine for not having health insurance.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:51
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AhhYes posted:Nope. Can be done as frequently as the House can stomach it. Question is can they stomach Gym Jordan whining about Double Jeopardy even though it isn't a thing  Edit: also I have no faith in the general public to not think it would be sour grapes to try again for the same offenses
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Feb 1, 2020 18:51
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HootTheOwl posted:How would that deal work, exactly? You know what? That would have been the ultimate power move, and Im surprised the Republicans didnt just go for it. Maybe they arent used to wielding ultimate power yet. Squack McQuack posted:Positive posts only! Stop saying nothing matters! We’re gonna be fine! The republicans are gonna lose in November and they will not cheat their way to victory this time! Bernie Will Win
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Feb 1, 2020 18:52
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While I don't think it will, or should, happen... the idea of re-impeaching Trump in April or whatever after Bolton's book comes out and Parnas drops more tapes would be pretty hilarious.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:55
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comedyblissoption posted:I suspect the people saying the ACA is so great never have had the privilege of paying the individual mandate for not having health insurance. I have and the ACA is great compared to the alternative where I die from something easily preventable or have a small issue become a big one because I'm too scared to go to the doctor. But you know it's not perfect so we must pretend it helped nobody.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:56
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Helsing posted:The ACA was designed and implemented in a way that largely disguised its benefits from much of the public while making its numerous and very serious flaws highly visible, and besides that the ACA didn't even really accomplish its own stated goals, as demonstrated by the fact that literally every candidate in the Democratic primary now proposes massive modifications to it. If the ACA is your idea of a good government intervention into the economy then you really need to recalibrate. that's the speech I had to give every time I defended obama from chuds. I'd say something benign like "I think the ACA was a step in the right direction" and, from then on, I was some glass-eyed obama loving zombie that only loved obama and wanted to marry him. so I learned to give a little speech about how I don't think everything every democrat ever has ever done is the greatest and that OBUMMERCARE isn't the best thing ever. no matter how little I praise the ACA it always gets turned into "oh so you LOVE the ACA right????" "the dems need to do good for people" "they do, but it is always turned into a disingenuous attack specifically designed to turn every victory into a liability, it's what they do, how do you fight that?" "if you love obamacare whuy doin't you marry it??" I honestly have no idea why I can't communicate this idea. hold on Nix Panicus posted:The only way to fight demagoguery is to offer a competing vision and solution set, and the Democrats as a whole are virulently opposed to having anything to do with the great unwashed masses. Nix Panicus posted:The only way to fight demagoguery is to offer a competing vision and solution set, and the Democrats as a whole are virulently opposed to having anything to do with the great unwashed masses. hold on I think I have a felt board somewhere... Edit: ha loving ha: comedyblissoption posted:I suspect the people saying the ACA is so great never have had the privilege of paying the individual mandate for not having health insurance. "you loving fuckface and your love of the "perfect" obamacare!!!" this is CERTAINLY a conversation I'd find useful to have!
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Feb 1, 2020 18:58
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Nix Panicus posted:You know what? That would have been the ultimate power move, and Im surprised the Republicans didnt just go for it. Maybe they arent used to wielding ultimate power yet. They're still a little bit afraid of November.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:59
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Really hoping Democrats just boycott the SOTU
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Feb 1, 2020 19:04
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Angry_Ed posted:I have and the ACA is great compared to the alternative where I die from something easily preventable or have a small issue become a big one because I'm too scared to go to the doctor. But you know it's not perfect so we must pretend it helped nobody. When you're poor on a lovely bronze plan you still die from something easily preventable because you're too scared to go to the doctor because can't afford the coinsurance and your deductible is in the thousands. Have you never been poor or known a poor person in your life? The working poor were forced to pay thousands of dollars a year to a private corporation in exchange for still going bankrupt if they got sick. It wasn't 'not perfect' it was actively bad for many, many people. And those many, many people got mad and had good reason to support Trump.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:05
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oxsnard posted:Really hoping Democrats just boycott the SOTU How about instead of 'you lie' we step it up and some Dem yells 'go gently caress yourself rapist'
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Feb 1, 2020 19:08
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Nix Panicus posted:When you're poor on a lovely bronze plan you still die from something easily preventable because you're too scared to go to the doctor because can't afford the coinsurance and your deductible is in the thousands. Have you never been poor or known a poor person in your life? The working poor were forced to pay thousands of dollars a year to a private corporation in exchange for still going bankrupt if they got sick. It wasn't 'not perfect' it was actively bad for many, many people. And those many, many people got mad and had good reason to support Trump. Except the working poor voted for Hillary overwhelmingly. Trump’s votes came from people who thought the country didn’t represent them any more in color or race: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/5/9/15592634/trump-clinton-racism-economy-prri-survey
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Feb 1, 2020 19:11
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Nix Panicus posted:When you're poor on a lovely bronze plan you still die from something easily preventable because you're too scared to go to the doctor because can't afford the coinsurance and your deductible is in the thousands. Have you never been poor or known a poor person in your life? The working poor were forced to pay thousands of dollars a year to a private corporation in exchange for still going bankrupt if they got sick. It wasn't 'not perfect' it was actively bad for many, many people. And those many, many people got mad and had good reason to support Trump. Yes I have been poor, it's only thanks to MassHealth and the ACA that I had a decent enough plan for two years, which I would not have been able to have due to pre-existing conditions But you know, keep pretending I'm full of it. I know the ACA is far from ideal and I support M4A/Public Option But there are hundreds of thousands of people the ACA helped and to pretend the alternative (i.e. you just die) was better is bullshit. Also, all those people who supported Trump didnt get helped anyway and he ran on "Repeal Edit: also as the post above mine pointed out, "ecominc anxiety" is a lie
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Feb 1, 2020 19:11
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Nix Panicus posted:When you're poor on a lovely bronze plan you still die from something easily preventable because you're too scared to go to the doctor because can't afford the coinsurance and your deductible is in the thousands. Have you never been poor or known a poor person in your life? The working poor were forced to pay thousands of dollars a year to a private corporation in exchange for still going bankrupt if they got sick. It wasn't 'not perfect' it was actively bad for many, many people. And those many, many people got mad and had good reason to support Trump. This. I had to pay the penalty last year because I priced out plans, and the poo poo tier plans that were anywhere near affordable wouldn't actually cover preventative visits or things like bronchitis and the normal ailments that take someone down on a "not cancer" level. It would have cost me MORE to go to the doctor with health insurance, because out of pocket deductible is so high, there's no copay, and I'm paying for this privilege to the tune of hundreds per month. gently caress the ACA. M4A or get the wall. e: in case it wasn't clear, it was more reasonable to go with no insurance and pay out of pocket for urgent care/primary care and eat the fine than it was to pay for insurance and also pay out of pocket for urgent care/primary care.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:11
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Sure it can. Isn't there a phase for members to make speeches?
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Feb 1, 2020 19:13
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Nix Panicus posted:You know what? That would have been the ultimate power move, and Im surprised the Republicans didnt just go for it. Maybe they arent used to wielding ultimate power yet. The Republicans were never going to call Hunter or Joe Biden. It is much easier to use them as the boogeyman and distract from the actual issues at hand. Honestly if the Democrats would have called for either of the Bidens to testify every Republican would have voted it down. They can't risk losing a boogeyman that could blow up in their face. comedyblissoption posted:I suspect the people saying the ACA is so great never have had the privilege of paying the individual mandate for not having health insurance. Angry_Ed posted:I have and the ACA is great compared to the alternative where I die from something easily preventable or have a small issue become a big one because I'm too scared to go to the doctor. But you know it's not perfect so we must pretend it helped nobody. The issue with the ACA is that for most lower income people in the US, who need health coverage the most it did much more harm than good. In many states the cheapest ACA coverage was about 250-300 bucks a month. In some places the coverage was much higher and a few it was nonexistent. If you are making at or near minimum wage effectively a week's pay is going to health coverage. Now in turn the coverage is so bad that you can not afford to use it as the deductible is so high you would be in better shape to not have coverage at all. Even if you had something catastrophic the amount that a minimum ACA plan covers is effectively worthless as well. The best parts of the ACA were putting in protections against the insurance companies getting rid of people with preexisting conditions and allowing children to be on parent's insurance until they are 24. But the rest was a give away to the insurance industry at the expense of those who could least afford it and had the most need/hope. Any real health care solution needs to be some form of single payer/universal healthcare plan. The insurance company scam needs to be eliminated entirely.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:14
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InsertPotPun posted:*sigh* this reminds me of arguing with chuds, right now I'm just trying to find the right combination of small enough words that some fuckface won't twist for...fun? I don't know why. but: I do not love obama, he was not the best ever and I do not think everything he said was great and divine. I'm not sure how I can state this any more clearly but the point I'm making is that the specific design and implementation of the ACA hid many of its benefits and highlighted many of the flaws. As a result it was much more difficult to leverage the ACA into electoral success and much easier for opponents of the program to mobilize support around opposition toward it.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:15
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Warmachine posted:This. I had to pay the penalty last year because I priced out plans, and the poo poo tier plans that were anywhere near affordable wouldn't actually cover preventative visits or things like bronchitis and the normal ailments that take someone down on a "not cancer" level. It would have cost me MORE to go to the doctor with health insurance, because out of pocket deductible is so high, there's no copay, and I'm paying for this privilege to the tune of hundreds per month. I'm curious to know what state this is in. I believe you entirely (and poo poo like this is why I support M4A since I know people did get screwed) but I wonder if its one of the states that basically did everything in their power to mitigate any possible benefits (Medicaid expansion, etc.)
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Feb 1, 2020 19:15
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The ACA is amazing for it's ability to both make things better and illustrate how worthless anything other than m4a would be.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:17
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oxsnard posted:Really hoping Democrats just boycott the SOTU If they do, they better hold a meeting to agree that no matter who wins the nomination everyone gets behind that person. No more stupid purity tests, no more making it acceptable to protest by writing a candidate in or just not showing up, just an all hands on deck agreement to win the election, fix the damage done and actively punish conservatism.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:19
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oxsnard posted:Really hoping Democrats just boycott the SOTU They will attend and they will clap politely. :Pelosiclap:
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Feb 1, 2020 19:22
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HootTheOwl posted:The ACA is amazing for it's ability to both make things better and illustrate how worthless anything other than m4a would be. Well it was a Republican plan that was thought up when Hillary was first taking a run at health care in the 93. Romney put it in Mass when he was Governer and it did well enough. My ex who was living there when it first got put in basically explained it as it is better than nothing. It also forced a lot of employer based insurance to bump up it's coverage which helped. The ACA is effectively that same plan without the public option. It has the same flaws that people stated in 1993 and most of the fears made about it in 1993 came true. Health care can not be pro-business or a money making endeavor which was one of the concerns of the GOP in creating it.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:24
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Angry_Ed posted:I'm curious to know what state this is in. I believe you entirely (and poo poo like this is why I support M4A since I know people did get screwed) but I wonder if its one of the states that basically did everything in their power to mitigate any possible benefits (Medicaid expansion, etc.) Michigan. So no, it wasn't some hellstate like... Kentucky was it?
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Feb 1, 2020 19:28
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Warmachine posted:Michigan. So no, it wasn't some hellstate like... Kentucky was it? Fair enough, and yeah situations like yours are why the ACA for all its benefit is still inadequate and we need M4A
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Feb 1, 2020 19:30
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Scooter_McCabe posted:If they do, they better hold a meeting to agree that no matter who wins the nomination everyone gets behind that person. No more stupid purity tests, no more making it acceptable to protest by writing a candidate in or just not showing up, just an all hands on deck agreement to win the election, fix the damage done and actively punish conservatism. I will say that the Democratic primary has for the most part been fairly mud free with a lot of policy debate. I think everyone is well aware of the poo poo show that happened with Clinton and wants none of that. As well as everyone in the field is aware that whatever they spew at each other the piss baby will use until November. That being said if Bernie win Iowa and/or New Hampshire all bets are off. The DNC and more importantly the Media have reasons to fear his campaign and win. I assume he will placate the DNC with whomever he chooses for the VP. I don't know what the media will do as they won't be able to keep ignoring him anymore and the message.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:30
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You know what? I'm just glad we somehow avoided a major war with Iran. This timeline is still comforting compared to a timeline with both impeachment and that.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:34
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Warmachine posted:Michigan. So no, it wasn't some hellstate like... Kentucky was it? Actually Kentucky had amazing AMA implementation, some of the best in the country with a massive Medicare expansion. When Biven was elected Governor he stripped it all, hundreds of thousands lost their health care overnight. It is one of the huge reasons why he lost in the mid terms. It goes to show why the GOP especially fears M4A since when it is implemented it is insanely popular even in a Red leaning state. If it is taken away the backlash is pretty severe.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:35
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HootTheOwl posted:The ACA is amazing for it's ability to both make things better and illustrate how worthless anything other than m4a would be. god loving dammit. I'm part of the problem because I celebrate a small victory instead of holding my breath for the biggest victory. it's not like i'm saying "this is all we need", which is inherent in my use of the phrase "step in the right direction". I say "step forward" and they hear "we can never do any better!!" for some reason. me, and millions of people, got to go to the doctor for the first time in decades despite the disease I was born with. this is not good enough. however it was good enough for me and millions of people. you'll note "good enough" is not "finished" or "done"
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Feb 1, 2020 19:39
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Djarum posted:I will say that the Democratic primary has for the most part been fairly mud free with a lot of policy debate. I think everyone is well aware of the poo poo show that happened with Clinton and wants none of that. As well as everyone in the field is aware that whatever they spew at each other the piss baby will use until November. I was out at the bar and a patron made the curious case Mayor Pete as VP. It was very much a placation strategy. I thought gently caress it pick AOC and go full bore.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:02
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Scooter_McCabe posted:I was out at the bar and a patron made the curious case Mayor Pete as VP. It was very much a placation strategy. I thought gently caress it pick AOC and go full bore. AOC isn't eligible
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Feb 1, 2020 20:07
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itt people are surprised that people with disabilities and chronical medical conditions are supportive of the law that lets them even get medical care
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Feb 1, 2020 20:08
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Herstory Begins Now posted:itt people are surprised that people with disabilities and chronical medical conditions are supportive of the law that lets them even get medical care And? Keep going. Don’t stop.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:13
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