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play crimson flower first because edelgard is right
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Feb 2, 2020 02:59
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 06:40 |
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Endorph posted:play crimson flower first because edelgard is right Alternatively, play it second so you can recruit everyone easily, that way all the characters will also know Edelgard is right.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:01
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Endorph posted:play crimson flower first because edelgard is right
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Feb 2, 2020 03:03
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McTimmy posted:That was supposed to be less about you not having played it but my fault for keeping that. She's given a... very skewed interpretation of Rhea's backstory and motives, and what happened with the Agarthans and Nabteans. The big thing she doesn't know: Rhea didn't start the war between the dragons and humans, and humans genocided Rhea's race to craft weapons and crest stones from their bodies and use their blood to create Crests. Edelgard thinks the whole thing is the fault of Rhea and her people because she believes that Rhea and company believe themselves to be innately superior to humanity and deserve to rule over mankind. The truth isn't that simple, and Rhea's motives aren't that evil even if her actions are. There's a reason I think Edelgard and Rhea are basically the same character when it comes to their motives and actions, and I think they're both evil. The difference being that Rhea can, depending on your route and choices, go through a character arc to have a change of heart where Edelgard would rather die than admit she's wrong.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:04
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Except Edelgard is right about what matters
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Feb 2, 2020 03:10
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Edit: On second thought, I'll let the Edelgard fanboys and girls get it out of their system rather than contributing to the derail.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:14
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RevolverDivider posted:Except Edelgard is right about what matters She sure is! Watching a village burn down and putting the boot on people who had nothing to do with her war against Rhea, it's great.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:15
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Maybe Fire Emblem: Three Houses presents a complex story where no one is completely in the right and where people can have good intentions but also carry them forward in ways that only cause bloodshed and pain. Except Claude, who is written as completely flawless beyond a lack of interest in what's going on and sadly, that makes him kind of boring.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:19
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This is why we got literal all-the-time night in fates, because we can't handle that
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Feb 2, 2020 03:22
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Blaze Dragon posted:Maybe Fire Emblem: Three Houses presents a complex story where no one is completely in the right and where people can have good intentions but also carry them forward in ways that only cause bloodshed and pain.  quote:Except Claude, who is written as completely flawless beyond a lack of interest in what's going on and sadly, that makes him kind of boring. also , but more subdued. I maintain that his lack of trust in his friends and allies (not telling them who he is) should have had some impact on his relationships and on the story.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:22
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Cythereal posted:She's given a... very skewed interpretation of Rhea's backstory and motives, and what happened with the Agarthans and Nabteans. The big thing she doesn't know: Rhea didn't start the war between the dragons and humans, and humans genocided Rhea's race to craft weapons and crest stones from their bodies and use their blood to create Crests. Edelgard thinks the whole thing is the fault of Rhea and her people because she believes that Rhea and company believe themselves to be innately superior to humanity and deserve to rule over mankind. The truth isn't that simple, and Rhea's motives aren't that evil even if her actions are. The weird gradients of information make this such a troublesome thing to answer. I don't think I can do it clearly but here's my best shot. Edelgard isn't acting on things she doesn't know about, like the Agarthan's war or Nemesis's genocide. She's acting in opposition to the lies that Rhea herself has spent a millennium perpetrating to reinforce her authority. She uses a combination of her personal experiences and the information passed down from emperor to emperor to deduce that Rhea is lying about the nature of Crests, Relics and the nobility. That is why she's rebelling, because Rhea has been manipulating Fodlan with lies for a thousand years. Yes, what Edelgard knows isn't the full truth. But she's not outright wrong either.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:33
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professor metis posted:also Claude has a lot going on that could've made for a really neat story: his willingness to use underhanded methods to win, his secrecy about his past, his relationship and issues with both of his homelands, his wish to remain passive in the middle of a war between the other two, but overall none of these genuinely matter in Verdant Wind and it sucks. It's really obvious that the story was not written around Claude like Crimson Flower and Azure Moon were around their respective Lords, so all of these come up everywhere except in the story (to an extent, since his secrecy about his past is a part of dialogues in the story proper, but it doesn't really affect it). Overall, Verdant Wind just writes Claude as being entirely in the right without giving him any of the shades of grey Edelgard, Dimitri or Rhea have, with his less morally correct attributes being more informed than anything.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:39
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McTimmy posted:The weird gradients of information make this such a troublesome thing to answer. I don't think I can do it clearly but here's my best shot. Edelgard isn't acting on things she doesn't know about, like the Agarthan's war or Nemesis's genocide. She's acting in opposition to the lies that Rhea herself has spent a millennium perpetrating to reinforce her authority. She uses a combination of her personal experiences and the information passed down from emperor to emperor to deduce that Rhea is lying about the nature of Crests, Relics and the nobility. That is why she's rebelling, because Rhea has been manipulating Fodlan with lies for a thousand years. Yes, what Edelgard knows isn't the full truth. But she's not outright wrong either. I know, and it has nothing to do with what I originally said. I was just noting that it amuses me how badly misinformed Edelgard is. She's right about what's going on. She's wrong about why it's going on.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:41
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Blaze Dragon posted:Claude has a lot going on that could've made for a really neat story: his willingness to use underhanded methods to win, his secrecy about his past, his relationship and issues with both of his homelands, his wish to remain passive in the middle of a war between the other two, but overall none of these genuinely matter in Verdant Wind and it sucks. It's really obvious that the story was not written around Claude like Crimson Flower and Azure Moon were around their respective Lords, so all of these come up everywhere except in the story (to an extent, since his secrecy about his past is a part of dialogues in the story proper, but it doesn't really affect it). Which is why he should have been in a different game where the story could have been tailored to him, and why he is a more interesting character on other routes. Who should have been GD house leader instead? Lysithea or Lorenz. Honestly I like Claude a lot, I just see wasted potential that makes me sad.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:43
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Cythereal posted:I know, and it has nothing to do with what I originally said. I was just noting that it amuses me how badly misinformed Edelgard is. She's right about what's going on. She's wrong about why it's going on. This is just a constant though. Dimitri is the same, he's right in that Edelgard is working with Those Who Slither in the Dark but completely wrong in why she's doing it or how responsible she is of the one thing Dimitri actually cares about. capitaldelendaest posted:Which is why he should have been in a different game where the story could have been tailored to him, and why he is a more interesting character on other routes. Who should have been GD house leader instead? Lysithea or Lorenz. I don't think Claude needed a different game, he just needed a route that wasn't just a reuse of Silver Snow with a few maps changed. It's one of those moments where the game's ambition being limited by the time it had shows. Also I don't think Lorenz should be a house leader. Lorenz's role is one that's in the three houses, the secondary advisor that specifically serves as a counter to the leader. Ferdinand for the Eagles and Felix for the Lions serve as his counterparts in that, and they're needed since otherwise their respective Lords would go mostly uncontested. Sure, none of them are taken seriously, but their role is nonetheless important to keep the cast balanced.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:47
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Tbh I really just want Lysithea to be house leader. The reason I say Claude needs another game is that they clearly didn't have the time to write yet another route, I agree that ideally they would simply be able to do it in this one. A lot of the flaws in 3H seem to come from being spread too thin.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:52
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Felix is taken seriously because he's goddamn right. Sadly the few people that don't take him seriously want their wonderking to be fantastic as he tortures people to death.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:55
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Blaze Dragon posted:or how responsible she is of the one thing Dimitri actually cares about. Worth noting, this changes in Azure Moon. The moment Dimitri realizes she wasn't responsible, he starts sending emissaries to her asking her to explain her side of the story and that he's willing to call a cease fire if she is. It's one of the reasons I like Azure Moon's story. Dimitri is the only house leader (outside Rhea if you S-rank her) who feels to me like he actually examines what he's doing, why he's doing it, and what he truly believes - and is willing to admit it when he (they) hosed up and resolves to do better. It takes a lot to get him to that point, but he does reach it and he's more than willing to immediately stop what he's doing and make amends. It's a level of honesty, integrity, and self-examination that I think is missing from the other routes and other lords - Rhea gets the end point of that kind of self-reflection and growth if you S-rank her, but none of the meaty middle. One of my favorite lines from Dimitri, that I agree with completely and speaks to my own view of things, is in part one: "I don't believe it's a sign of strength to keep going no matter what."
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Feb 2, 2020 03:59
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capitaldelendaest posted:Tbh I really just want Lysithea to be house leader. The reason I say Claude needs another game is that they clearly didn't have the time to write yet another route, I agree that ideally they would simply be able to do it in this one. A lot of the flaws in 3H seem to come from being spread too thin. lysithea already is the house leader, of the black eagles
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Feb 2, 2020 03:59
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wrong dorothea is the real leader of the eagles
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Feb 2, 2020 04:30
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Dorothea is real, and strong, and she's my friend
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Feb 2, 2020 04:33
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Dimitri of course does what he accuses Edelgard of doing and it undermines any character he has. Namely conquering all of Fodlan under his iron fist.  The game should not have had basically the same ending on every route.
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Feb 2, 2020 04:44
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yeah but Dmitri said he was sorry or whatever so he's good and pure and different
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Feb 2, 2020 04:54
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It’s not super relevant to Edelgard-chat, but man do I love Raphael. Pretty much all of his supports are super charming, though Flayn-Raphael really stands out.
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Feb 2, 2020 04:58
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indigi posted:yeah but Dmitri said he was sorry or whatever so he's good and pure and different I'd say the difference is more that Edelgard explicitly sets out to conquer Fodlan, and in Azure Moon the Church and Alliance both join the Kingdom because they've both gotten the poo poo beaten out of them by the Empire and the Kingdom is the only group left that can protect them - neither one is Dimitri's idea. Dimitri even tries to talk Claude out of surrendering the Alliance. One reason why I find Silver Snow's ending to be so funny. Byleth quite explicitly winds up the queen of all Fodlan because everyone else is dead. The Church is the only power structure left in Fodlan, and the Church follows Byleth and Seteth. Seteth calls not it, so Byleth becomes queen by default. Edelgard's dead. All the imperial councilors are dead. Dimitri's dead. Rodrigue, Dimitri's uncle, and Sylvain's dad are all dead. The Agarthans are dead. Claude is dead or missing. The heads of almost every Alliance noble house are dead. The Empire, Kingdom, and Alliance have all collapsed as every land-owning noble scrambles for themselves. It's very much a "Yay! We killed all the baddies!... What the gently caress do we do now?!" kind of situation.
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Feb 2, 2020 04:59
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Raph is great. I wish you could put him on a horse but still make him punch things
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Feb 2, 2020 04:59
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Arcturas posted:It’s not super relevant to Edelgard-chat, but man do I love Raphael. Pretty much all of his supports are super charming, though Flayn-Raphael really stands out. I love his support chain with Marianne and the one with Hilda as well
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Feb 2, 2020 05:01
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his chain with Bernadetta is also cute as heckington
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Feb 2, 2020 05:02
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indigi posted:Raph is great. I wish you could put him on a horse but still make him punch things I know! I mean, I guess you can if you dual class both war master and then great knight, but that’s tons of work. Also I really wish you could replay the support scenes from the support menu, I’d love to rewatch some of these. There’s YouTube, sure, but that is a cludged together solution.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:04
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You can rewatch supports from the main menu
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Feb 2, 2020 05:15
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Cythereal posted:I'd say the difference is more that Edelgard explicitly sets out to conquer Fodlan, and in Azure Moon the Church and Alliance both join the Kingdom because they've both gotten the poo poo beaten out of them by the Empire and the Kingdom is the only group left that can protect them - neither one is Dimitri's idea. Dimitri even tries to talk Claude out of surrendering the Alliance. All the Alliance heads are fine though? Maybe I'm reading into "things got bad at Grondor" in a different way but none of the Alliance lords ever come out for that (besides Claude).
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Feb 2, 2020 05:16
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"My muscles!" had me rolling.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:17
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McTimmy posted:All the Alliance heads are fine though? Maybe I'm reading into "things got bad at Grondor" in a different way but none of the Alliance lords ever come out for that (besides Claude). I poached Marianne and Hilda, and they mentioned in the final month that almost all of the Alliance leadership was dead between Gronder and the Empire's invasion of Leicester. I got the impression that Marianne's dad was still alive, but it sounded like most if not all the other Alliance leaders died (plus I killed Lorenz and Count Acheron at Myrrdin Bridge).
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Feb 2, 2020 05:20
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Sudden Javelin posted:You can rewatch supports from the main menu Oh wow, thanks!
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Feb 2, 2020 05:21
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Cythereal posted:I poached Marianne and Hilda, and they mentioned in the final month that almost all of the Alliance leadership was dead between Gronder and the Empire's invasion of Leicester. I got the impression that Marianne's dad was still alive, but it sounded like most if not all the other Alliance leaders died (plus I killed Lorenz and Count Acheron at Myrrdin Bridge). That's weird. Gronder's the only time they could have been in danger but they don't join in there on the other two routes. I'm not even sure Judith is there on VW.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:24
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Why no Marianne/Mercedes supports
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Feb 2, 2020 05:30
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McTimmy posted:That's weird. Gronder's the only time they could have been in danger but they don't join in there on the other two routes. I'm not even sure Judith is there on VW. Yeah, I don't know what's supposed to have happened - Judith never comes up after the Valley of Torment in Silver Snow. Annette and Sylvain likewise confirmed that everyone of significance in the Kingdom was dead by that point. NPCs were straight up saying that every leader and powerful noble of consequence throughout Fodlan (except by implication Marianne's dad) was dead, so all three nations were effectively gone and the Church is the only semblance of organization and leadership left anywhere, so people are looking to Byleth and Seteth as the only possible leaders - and Seteth has already called not it. It's wonky and disjointed, but that's nothing new for Silver Snow. The month before Fort Merceus half the NPCs in the monastery were going "How could we possibly crack a fortress like that?" and the other half were going "Your plan is to do WHAT?!" Byleth's/Seteth's plan was never actually explained or stated anywhere except by implication from Shamir who was acting like Byleth had already come up with a plan and explained it to her. One good thing I did encounter on my Silver Snow run: Marianne/Hilda are so very, very gay at A rank, and in light of their actual conversation, their paired ending read to me like historians are desperately trying to pretend that these women were not lesbians. Though it also makes me annoyed that neither Hilda nor Marianne (or Petra or Catherine or Shamir or Annette...) are S-ranks for lady Byleth.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:35
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Mercedes' voice is so unfortunate
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Feb 2, 2020 05:35
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Endorph posted:play crimson flower first because edelgard is right I was going to say play azure moon because edelgard’s role in it will make you very curious about her and thus lead super well into crimson flower But um, this does not seem to be a universal experience
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Feb 2, 2020 06:23
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I played azure moon and thought edelgard was right tbh
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Feb 2, 2020 07:28
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