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GutBomb posted:Am I crazy or isn’t one of the few forum rules “don’t close your own threads”? This is trivially easy to check. The answer is that no, it is in fact not one of the rules.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:09
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enraged_camel posted:This is trivially easy to check. It used to be. There was even a warning about it when posting a thread.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:10
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GutBomb posted:I think the thread should have been kept open because there’s still stuff to talk about, but keeping the topic corralled to impeachment and it’s direct related topics is good. it's not a formal rule I'm aware of (and doesn't appear to be a publicly posted one) there's a general decorum norm to not close threads without decent reason
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Feb 3, 2020 03:13
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AFAIK the only forum that has ever had a “don’t close threads” rule is E/N, to stop people from shutting down self-inflicted ownfests. I appreciate that this thread was focused on one topic.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:24
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It's hard for me to really take the side of the people complaining at Helsing here given the fact that the only reason things turn into a derail in the first place is people angrily responding to him. The only reason it ever actually ends up any sort of "derail" is because of the response to posts like that.Helsing posted:A slightly uncharitable reading of this thread would be that a lot of Democrats, particularly those who are relatively comfortable in their lives, are stuck in the bargaining phase of grief over the 2016 election and cannot reconcile themselves to the idea that the only way to stymie the forces Trump represents is to find ways to expand the Democratic electorate. Perhaps because they know intuitively that this change in strategy would de facto mean admitting that the current Democratic party is part of the problem and that strategies for how to fundamentally reform it are a necessary part of any meaningful discussion of contemporary politics. While this is likely true in the specific case of this thread, I don't think it necessarily applies to everyone (or even most people) who discusses the impeachment like this in the US. For most people (including the sort of person to become heavily invested in something like the impeachment proceedings), politics is basically a battle between cultures/personalities. But while this can be the consequence of a person being privileged/comfortable, that isn't necessarily the case. It could just be that someone was mostly exposed to this perspective, and it's not that strange for someone to have the gut reaction of "it's weird/bad to attack the people who are ostensibly opposed to Trump." And even if they realize that the Democrats are not seriously opposing Trump, they still might find focusing on Democrats to be strange, because their perception of politics is through the lens of the politicians as people (and Trump is a lot more obviously bad "visibly" than many Democrats).
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Feb 3, 2020 03:25
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GutBomb posted:It used to be. There was even a warning about it when posting a thread. Proceedings were finished for the weekend and this thread appeared to be in full death spiral mode, I made a judgment call considering there wouldn't be news until Monday and any relevant discussion could be had in USPOL, which is much more closely modded. Things got fairly apocalyptic after witness votes failed in a "Who do we want to die first?" kinda way and I admit I probably was too twitchy. I received no complaints about this, nor did Helsing or anyone else PM me about it. There are no posted rules about it.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:25
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Ytlaya posted:It's hard for me to really take the side of the people complaining at Helsing here given the fact that the only reason things turn into a derail in the first place is people angrily responding to him. The thread went to poo poo and was closed before Helsing arrived and reopened it.
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Feb 3, 2020 03:30
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ManBoyChef posted:Do you think the impeachment would have come out differently if the democratic leadership wasn't held by the wealthy donors? I'm sure they would be much more willing to burn biden. Worse, I think if democrats were more appealing to working-class voters, we wouldn't have a Trump administration. I don't think there's anything democrats could have done to alter the outcome of this trial. We always knew we were just impeaching to impeach, and nothing would come of it. Getting the republican party on record accepting Trump's corrupt behavior was the point of all this. Chilichimp fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 03:33
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enraged_camel posted:Just one mod, to be more accurate. just let me take an opportunistic shot at greyjoy plz
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Feb 3, 2020 03:36
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The thread devolving into ACA redux shows it needed a temp close
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Feb 3, 2020 03:37
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thank y'all for saying nice things btw
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Feb 3, 2020 03:40
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you've done a good job stewarding this thread imo This is also quite literally 'the republican crimes thread' so someone busting on in all 'hey lets talk about the ways the dems are bad' just really misses the point of the thread
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Feb 3, 2020 03:49
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eke out posted:thank y'all for saying nice things btw Overall you've done a good job but it was pretty dumb to close it for the weekend imo
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Feb 3, 2020 03:55
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Herstory Begins Now posted:you've done a good job stewarding this thread imo In all honesty if this thread continued as just a general talk about the GOP crimes it be great as we move from impeachment. Emphasis on GOP
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Feb 3, 2020 03:58
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DarkHorse posted:Overall you've done a good job but it was pretty dumb to close it for the weekend imo okay i think the relevant question is whether the thread should be allowed to die with dignity following the conclusion of impeachment or if the rules should be changed and it be kept open indefinitely as some kind of liberal struggle session. in my opinion, that should just be a different thread
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Feb 3, 2020 04:00
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GreyjoyBastard posted:conversely, I'm not sure turning this into "USPOL, but more disappointed in Congressdems" is a particularly more valuable enterprise than just folding the discussion back into Normal USPOL. I think I'm on board with keeping it open at least a couple days after The Vote for postgame discussion, but if it's going to be a long term thing there should probably be a focus narrower than USPOL that sets it apart in some way. The impeachment was arguably the most visible act of resistance that the Democrats have taken against Trump and it seems logical it would have its own thread where people could discuss the efficacy, motivations and strategy of the impeachment proceedings as well as their longterm implications for executive power and congressional oversight. That seems like a fairly obvious distinction from USPol which covers general day to day political stuff over a much larger range of topics. If interest is lacking the thread will drift off into the virtual ether. Why arbitrarily cut it off? skeleton warrior posted:The thread’s good content is mostly due to eke out tending to the thread and politely admin people to stop posting no-content or off-topic, so especially lol that Helsing jumps in after not paying attention to it for a month to poo poo on eke and insist that not enough people are complaining about the ACA here to allow this thread to stay open eke out wanted this thread closed for the weekend and wants this thread to be permanently closed in a few days time and I'm saying it is probably more sensible to leave it open for as long as interest in the topic lingers. Though, as I said above, whether that means keeping this thread open or just opening a new one in a few days seems completely irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion. I think the actual contentious point is whether the impeachment focused thread should have a special set of rules in which discussing the actual politics of the impeachment is forbidden. Herstory Begins Now posted:This is also quite literally 'the republican crimes thread' so someone busting on in all 'hey lets talk about the ways the dems are bad' just really misses the point of the thread This thread has always been set up as the designated thread for talking about the impeachment. It was even stickied for a while. Nowhere is it advertised as "the TV IV thread where we laugh at Republicans". This is debate and discussion, the forum for debating and discussing things. What you're saying is that the official thread about one of the most visible political acts of the Democratic party since 2016 should have a specific rule saying nobody can actually talk about the politics of the impeachment. If you want a "lol at Republican crimes thread" that sounds like a great topic... for a CSPAM thread.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:05
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eke out posted:okay I missed this before hitting post but this is a total non-issue and we can let this thread rest in peace if that is your preference.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:06
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Helsing posted:I think the actual contentious point is whether the impeachment focused thread should have a special set of rules in which discussing the actual politics of the impeachment is forbidden. no it's whether those rules should be changed at the very end because you got mad at them not a single person has agreed with you so far. make whatever rules you want for your thread, no one is arguing against it Helsing posted:I missed this before hitting post but this is a total non-issue and we can let this thread rest in peace if that is your preference. great i agree with you on this eke out fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 04:07
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Herstory Begins Now posted:you've done a good job stewarding this thread imo Ytalaya and Ymb and Helsing are a crew that do this in threads that they want shut down. They  “reasonably” until everyone stops reading the thread, and it’s always this exact Dems are a waste stuff. It’s weird internet performative leftism.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:13
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Leave the thread up till impeachment is over. News starts up tomorrow morning.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:15
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Helsing posted:The impeachment was arguably the most visible act of resistance that the Democrats have taken against Trump and it seems logical it would have its own thread where people could discuss the efficacy, motivations and strategy of the impeachment proceedings as well as their longterm implications for executive power and congressional oversight. That seems like a fairly obvious distinction from USPol which covers general day to day political stuff over a much larger range of topics. If interest is lacking the thread will drift off into the virtual ether. Why arbitrarily cut it off? Except that's not what you insisted needed to be discussed, you insisted that we re-hash why the Democrats lost in 2016: Helsing posted:A slightly uncharitable reading of this thread would be that a lot of Democrats, particularly those who are relatively comfortable in their lives, are stuck in the bargaining phase of grief over the 2016 election and cannot reconcile themselves to the idea that the only way to stymie the forces Trump represents is to find ways to expand the Democratic electorate. Perhaps because they know intuitively that this change in strategy would de facto mean admitting that the current Democratic party is part of the problem and that strategies for how to fundamentally reform it are a necessary part of any meaningful discussion of contemporary politics. Helsing posted:This is navel gazing. The corruption of the Senate is a reflection of the monied interests that control Washington, it isn't caused by the age or incumbency of the senators themselves. If you wanted to fix that problem the solution would be for the Democrats to start acting as an effective opposition party and for them to actually govern as though they really wanted to improve the lives of their own constituents when they manage to take office. If Lightning Knight showed up and insisted that we can't argue about Republican actions of the last three months in defense of President Trump without first deconstructing the argument over whether in a capitalist society democracy can actually survive, and only once we have reconciled the underlying question of whether capitalism and democracy can truly co-exist can we hence begin to unravel the actions of Republicans within it, we'd all call bullshit, and this is just the same. If your insistence is that this needs to be another "here is why Dems are bad and why you should let Republicans win rather than ever vote for a Democrat" thread, then you should start that thread. But in this thread, people were having a good conversation around current Democratic and Republican actions. Just because you didn't like the conversation or think it was deep enough or wasn't hateful enough about Obama or Warren or whomever doesn't mean you get to shut it down just because you're a mod.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:16
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ascii genitals posted:Leave the thread up till impeachment is over. News starts up tomorrow morning. Yeah, I don't think anyone's arguing otherwise at this point. It should probably stay up for at least 24 hours after the final vote Wednesday because there will inevitably be new admissions of crimes immediately after it's done
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Feb 3, 2020 04:17
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eke out posted:Yeah, I don't think anyone's arguing otherwise at this point. It should probably stay up for at least 24 hours after the final vote Wednesday because there will inevitably be new admissions of crimes immediately after it's done lodging my opinion: 72-96, then evaluate how the discourse is going and whether to fold it back into USPOL (or a new thread)
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Feb 3, 2020 04:31
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and also evaluating how many new crimes Donald Trump has committed and/or admitted to
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Feb 3, 2020 04:33
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GreyjoyBastard posted:lodging my opinion: 72-96, then evaluate how the discourse is going and whether to fold it back into USPOL (or a new thread) this seems fine. there's probably equal chances in that period that either (1) the news peters out naturally or (2) everything gets far more insane than it is right now for some reason
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Feb 3, 2020 04:33
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Everybody give yourselves a pat on the back, we really tweet-dumped the hell out of this spectacle. See ya'll at the next impeachment.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:35
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eke out posted:this seems fine. there's probably equal chances in that period that either (1) the news peters out naturally or (2) everything gets far more insane than it is right now for some reason The current resident of the Oval Office is....let's say not very well balanced mentally? He's absolutely going to poo poo his britches with TOTAL WITCHUNT EXONERATION FBI SPIED ON ME PROOF Q IS RIGHT and similar brain worms. Like, the Ukraine call was one loving day after the Mueller report. After turning the Senate of the United States into a poo poo show dedicated to feeding his ego and conspiracy theories, everything's just gonna go bonkers when he thinks he's won.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:39
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bird food bathtub posted:The current resident of the Oval Office is....let's say not very well balanced mentally? He's absolutely going to poo poo his britches with TOTAL WITCHUNT EXONERATION FBI SPIED ON ME PROOF Q IS RIGHT and similar brain worms. Like, the Ukraine call was one loving day after the Mueller report. After turning the Senate of the United States into a poo poo show dedicated to feeding his ego and conspiracy theories, everything's just gonna go bonkers when he thinks he's won. He'll announce he's hired Erik Prince to investigate the Bidens on his own during the SOTU. Or something equally as ridiculous.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:45
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Calibanibal posted:Everybody give yourselves a pat on the back, we really tweet-dumped the hell out of this spectacle. See ya'll at the next impeachment. The Impeachment of President Bernard Sanders for the high crimes of taxing the rich and giving to the poor. bird food bathtub posted:everything's just gonna go bonkers when he thinks he's won.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:45
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eke out posted:(2) everything gets far more insane than it is right now for some reason This is a strong possibility. He’s going to want to wave his dick around as much as possible to show he didn’t get kicked in the nuts (and he did get kicked in the nuts by this).
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Feb 3, 2020 04:50
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I don’t really recall an OP being so involved with their thread but this one has been perfectly fine for months and I as a user found it good that it stayed focused...and there are probably 10 other general bullshit threads in DnD and C-SPAM I could go to for stuff outside of impeachment, so it is totally cool and good that on the last 5 days of its life it gets loving shitted up with unnecessary drama Anyways, hate to say but I definitely checked out after Alexander’s statement and the inevitable witness vote. I watched a lot of C-SPAN that night and it was really depressing because I could literally hear the RWM talking points, and the whole process allows so much talking that it is makes the media’s job easy to spin and confuse things / make lovely arguments sound good. I can see how after 4 years we STILL aren’t prepared as a society to really handle the spin and misdirects. The next few cycles are going to be brutal. I have to imagine that surely the next Senate impeachment trial against a Dem will be after McConnell is gone but GOP leadership will remember his philosophy that precedent is never set and you can always do whatever you want, so they’ll just argue against every ounce of what this poo poo senate trial has considered legitimate...
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Feb 3, 2020 04:52
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eke out posted:no it's whether those rules should be changed at the very end because you got mad at them Why do you care? If you wanted the thread to be gone in four days anyway and the impeachment is basically wrapped up then why are you bristling at the rules being changed "at the very end" as though this was a race and I just unfairly changed the location of the finish line or something? Why do you keep using terms like "power grab" or talking about the "dignity" of your thread? Do you not see how that rhetoric is overloaded? We disagree about how to run this discussion on a virtual forum in 2020. If arguing about that really has you this worked up then you need to find ways to get less worked up over trivial internet bullshit. Anyway I do not expect you'll put any stock in me saying this but I have no ill will toward you and while I think you're wrong about a bunch of stuff whatever animosity you feel here is one sided. skeleton warrior posted:Except that's not what you insisted needed to be discussed, you insisted that we re-hash why the Democrats lost in 2016: The only thing I'm insisting on is that the designated thread for talking about impeachment is not going to be moderated as a politics free zone. While eke out has neglected to mention this he has contacted other mods and they have backed me up on those specific points because guess what? We have discussed this and agreed that having hyper specific rules designed to preclude any discussion of the 2020 election or other related issues don't make sense at this point. To make sure this doesn't get lost in the shuffle of previous pages: I still think it would be fine to enforce tighter discussion rules when the hearings are actually happening, assuming anyone thinks that would improve things. I just do not think it makes much sense to enforce ultra tight discussion rules the rest of the time and certainly not over the weekend when the thread isn't even moving very quickly.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:54
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Pander posted:The Impeachment of President Bernard Sanders for the high crimes of taxing the rich and giving to the poor. You joke, but 100% the moment there is a Democrat in the White House and a republican controlled Congress they’re getting impeached.
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Feb 3, 2020 04:56
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Sinistral posted:You joke, but 100% the moment there is a Democrat in the White House and a republican controlled Congress they’re getting impeached. Who said anything about Republican controlled Congress impeaching him for taxing the rich?
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Feb 3, 2020 04:59
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Helsing posted:Why do you care? If you wanted the thread to be gone in four days anyway and the impeachment is basically wrapped up then why are you bristling at the rules being changed "at the very end" as though this was a race and I just unfairly changed the location of the finish line or something? Why do you keep using terms like "power grab" or talking about the "dignity" of your thread? Do you not see how that rhetoric is overloaded? We disagree about how to run this discussion on a virtual forum in 2020. If arguing about that really has you this worked up then you need to find ways to get less worked up over trivial internet bullshit. What the gently caress man. Can you please stop with this?
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Feb 3, 2020 05:03
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Well, this was a good thread. Hope it can get back on the track that was going perfectly well until... today for some reason. Wtf Helsing.
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Feb 3, 2020 05:07
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Helsing posted:Why do you care? If you wanted the thread to be gone in four days anyway and the impeachment is basically wrapped up then why are you bristling at the rules being changed "at the very end" as though this was a race and I just unfairly changed the location of the finish line or something? Why do you keep using terms like "power grab" or talking about the "dignity" of your thread? Do you not see how that rhetoric is overloaded? We disagree about how to run this discussion on a virtual forum in 2020. If arguing about that really has you this worked up then you need to find ways to get less worked up over trivial internet bullshit. you really are showing off all the worst possible ways someone can be a mod in one thread. having to fall back on "why do you even care, dude? why are you taking this so seriously??" is loving pathetic quote:The only thing I'm insisting on is that the designated thread for talking about impeachment is not going to be moderated as a politics free zone. While eke out has neglected to mention this he has contacted other mods and they have backed me up on those specific points because guess what? We have discussed this and agreed that having hyper specific rules designed to preclude any discussion of the 2020 election or other related issues don't make sense at this point. i talked to one person and you seem sorely mistaken about what was said. the fact that you think "the other mods secretly support me but eke out is hiding this from you all" is a compelling position or something appropriate to post is wild eke out fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 05:07
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What gets me is that even if discussing how bad Democrats are was both the greatest pressing issue of modern politics and the one least served on this forum, and even if this was to be remedied by repurposing one thread to discuss it, this would be a really weird choice. As has been pointed out already, even the normally awful and spineless ones like Schumer did their level best but just couldn't change how a lockstep majority can rule things in the Senate.
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Feb 3, 2020 05:10
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Helsing you can just admit that you did something unpopular and move on instead of doing whatever it is you’re doing now
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Feb 3, 2020 05:10
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Helsing posted:Why do you care? If you wanted the thread to be gone in four days anyway and the impeachment is basically wrapped up then why are you bristling at the rules being changed "at the very end" as though this was a race and I just unfairly changed the location of the finish line or something? Why do you keep using terms like "power grab" or talking about the "dignity" of your thread? Do you not see how that rhetoric is overloaded? We disagree about how to run this discussion on a virtual forum in 2020. If arguing about that really has you this worked up then you need to find ways to get less worked up over trivial internet bullshit. Did you just make an I'm not angry you're angry post as a mod? This post strikes the same tone as Jared Kushner proposing a peace plan to the Palestinians. Just stop trying to direct a thread that didn't need it.
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Feb 3, 2020 05:12
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