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PoptartsNinja posted:
Most of those characters are from books not written by Mike Stackpole. The 9th Ghost Regiment and 17th Recon were filled with interesting characters, even the ones who only appeared for a few pages. Victor Milan defined characters through traits other than "staring adoringly at (insert Mary Sue character name)". Same goes for Robert Charrette. Look at how Sun-Tzu is portrayed in the Kerensky books vs. his depiction in Double Blind. Stackpole dumbs him down to a mustache-twirling mad man, Coleman gives his depth and actual motivation for his actions.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:52
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I've been riding low on money pretty much thsi entire campaign and am starting to just take massive salvage contracts and headshotting everything to try to get some money back. Scrapping heavies adds up real fast. e; Guess I have all the assault mechs now. Nephzinho fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 22:34
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Nephzinho posted:I've been riding low on money pretty much thsi entire campaign and am starting to just take massive salvage contracts and headshotting everything to try to get some money back. Scrapping heavies adds up real fast. Yeah, I'm post-campaign and just crank the salvage slider all the way to the right every time. I figure that on top of the chassis sale, you get to double-dip on selling the components as well. That is, if you're running that option. Which I am. Shamelessly. 
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Jan 31, 2020 22:58
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Is there a quick guide somewhere of which books/authors are decent enough to be worth reading? Like how Star Wars has "read the ones by Tim Zahn and X-Wing, ignore the rest". I'm guessing Stackpole's Btech stuff is as aggressively ok as his Star Wars? I've only played Mechwarrior 4 Mercs and this, so I don't really know much of the background lore.
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Feb 1, 2020 08:14
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I wanna say the Jade Phoenix trilogy is pretty good. IIRC, they are the ones that sold the clans to me as an interesting society. But I haven't read *any* Battletech novels since I was young & tasteless.
TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 08:28
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I enjoyed the Michael Stackpole X-Wing star wars books when I was young. He wrote X-wing 1 through 4 and I found them decent enough for young adult fiction. Is the Battletech stuff really that much worse, or am I just really forgiving of Stackpole's style? I give X-wing a 7/10 overall for plot, 8/10 for action scenes and technical details about vehicles/ships, and a solid 5/10 for character development and a little cringe factor due to pilots getting nervous around girls. (gulp)
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Feb 1, 2020 09:26
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Stackpole is better at writing ship combat than he is at mechs if only because you dont read his loving dice rolls in it. Still had the same issues with characters being... special
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Feb 1, 2020 09:48
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Arrinien posted:Is there a quick guide somewhere of which books/authors are decent enough to be worth reading? Like how Star Wars has "read the ones by Tim Zahn and X-Wing, ignore the rest". I'm guessing Stackpole's Btech stuff is as aggressively ok as his Star Wars? I've only played Mechwarrior 4 Mercs and this, so I don't really know much of the background lore. Standard recs would probably be the Warrior trilogy, Wolves on the Border, and the Blood of Kerensky trilogy. I have a soft spot myself for the Caballeros series.
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Feb 1, 2020 10:50
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Stackpole can write an action scene acceptably, he can make a plot, he just can't seem to make you care about it. For a teen nerd with maybe not the best ability in empathy or otherwise modeling behavior, you can skip over the problem of flat characters as long as the lasers are going pew. But if read his stuff older or perhaps wiser, ehhh.... It hurts him that these problems become far more glaring on a second read, when you arn't wondering what happens next.
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Feb 1, 2020 11:02
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He also has a odd habit of his main male character in cuffs or in some way being detained and dominated by a woman whos very hot and anything sexual happening would advance his goals quicker but he wrestles with it being the right thing to do and then at the last minute finding a way around the whole situation. Its weird. I can think of it happening atleast 3 times in his xwing books and atleast once in his first dark age books plus once in i,jedi. Happens with the female tyferra pilot once when hes locked up for doing the right thing against orders, with Isard twice when he was captured by her and then later in the books when the Rogues were semi imprisoned by her, Moff Tavira once when he was infiltrating the Invids, and then with mason dune once after he got fired from being a lumbermech driver but was locked up with the redhaired chick whose jaw he broke if I'm remebering right.
Stravag fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 11:11
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PhotoKirk posted:Most of those characters are from books not written by Mike Stackpole. Stackpole's fine in context, I prefer his writing to Coleman or Pardoe. The trick to appreciating Stackpole is understanding that he wrote the entire Warrior trilogy and followed it up with the Blood of Kerensky trilogy over the span of 3-4 years. He does not give his characters much nuance and he's poo poo at writing actual endings, but Kai Allard-Liao isn't Phelan Kell and neither of them is Victor Davion. The 'Stackpole writes Mary Sues!' complaint comes from Coran Horn from the Star Wars novels, the closest thing to an author stand-in Stackpole has is probably Morgan Kell. All of the authors have good and bad points, but even understanding that Stackpole's works didn't get the editorial support he probably needed I still prefer him to Coleman and especially to Pardoe with a few notable exceptions (Double Blind is great, Binding Force not so much). Stackpole gets poo poo on for a lot of things that are Blane Lee Pardoe's doing. Stackpoling? Stackpole did it once. Pardoe had a 'Mech go nuclear in nearly every novel. Mary Sue main characters? Loren Jaffray. Archer "Stonewall" Christifori. Trent. Angela "She later managed to master the bagpipes" Bekker. "Tucker Harwell, a ComStar genius, uses old hymns to figure out how to bring a new HPG core online." All Pardoe, with a dash of confederate apologia besides. Anyway, for getting into fiction: Wolves on the Border is the best introduction, it's one of the earliest novels and while Robert N. Charette wasn't prolific Wolves on the Border is the best single standalone novel in the franchise. It's from early-enough on that a number of things it brings up don't make it into later novels. If you want to know more about the pre-Clans Inner Sphere, read the Warrior Trilogy (Stackpole warning). They're not great but they're hardly unreadable. Wolves on the Border does everything this trilogy does but better (and in a single novel). If you didn't hate Wolves, follow it up with the Blood of Kerensky trilogy (which puts several scenes from Wolves on the Border in a new and chilling light). It's Stackpole so again, aggressively mediocre, but it's hardly unreadable even if the ending is a little weak. After BoK, if you find yourself at all interested in understanding the Clans, read Way of the Clans (the first novel of the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy) to understand exactly how hosed up they are. Skip the other two books in the trilogy, they completely ruin Way of the Clans' real message: "Training children from birth to be soldiers is bad." If you can't stay away from the rest of the trilogy understand that Bloodname is outright bad and the first two thirds of Falcon Guard could've been cut entirely, but the last third does a better job finishing up the Blood of Kerensky trilogy than Stackpole did. Otherwise, jump straight into the post-invasion period and read the Camacho's Caballeros trilogy (Close Quarters, Hearts of Chaos, and Black Dragon). Understand Close Quarters' intro is a hook for teenage boys and Hearts of Chaos is the worst of the three by far, but Black Dragon is hugely important and they both set it up. Then read Double Blind. This is the era of terrible Mary Sue mercenaries so if you want a feel for what every other novel in this time period is like read Highlander Gambit and maaaaybe follow it up with Impetus of War if you don't hate the main character. If you haven't burned out on the novel line yet and, don't hate Stackpole, and can tolerate Vlad Ward's smugness, and still have interest in the Clans and: A) If you're actually thirsty to read a genuinely bad novel read Natural Selection, but understand it's hilariously terrible because Stackpole was half-way through writing a pre-Clan prequel novel when editorial told him they wouldn't buy it and they wanted something to follow up the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, so he rewrote a few scenes and Kramered Phelan into it. B) Then (or otherwise) read Bred for War and Malicious Intent to find out what becomes of the Wolves and Falcons. It's more Stackpole, and Malicious Intent is more political thriller than action novel. C) If you can't stand Stackpole but didn't hate Legend of the Jade Phoenix, just read I Am Jade Falcon instead to get the gist of things. After that, if you still haven't burned or peaced out, read Twilight of the Clans. It's a long series and a multi-author anthology, book 4 is very skippable (unless you like Horse and Joanna). Then the Fedcom Civil War happens and it's lovely. I bounced off The Capellan Solution trilogy pretty hard, Patriots and Tyrants, Storms of Fate, and Endgame are the only novels "worth" reading, everything else is filler or Archer "Stonewall" Christifori (the worst protagonist). Endgame is the 'last' novel before Mechwarrior Dark Age. Alternatively (joke answer) you can skip the entire FedCom Civil War and just jump straight into (and bounce right off of) MWDA's Ghost War (Post 9/11 Stackpole warning) and call that the real end of the series. TLDR: 1) Wolves on the Border 1a) Warrior Trilogy: En Garde, Riposte, & Coupé 2a) Blood of Kerensky Trilogy: Lethal Heritage, Blood Legacy, & Lost Destiny (Stackpole warning) 2b) Legend of the Jade Phoenix: Way of the Clans* if and only if you like the main character and can tolerate bad novels Bloodname and Falcon Guard 3) Close Quarters, Hearts of Chaos, Black Dragon and Double Blind, maybe Highlander Gambit and double-maybe Impetus of War 3a) Natural Selection (Stackpole warning) ** 3b) Either Bred for War and Malicious Intent (Stackpole warning) or I Am Jade Falcon*** 4) Twilight of the Clans 1-3, 5-7 and maybe 8 5) Patriots and Tyrants, Storms of Fate, Endgame**** 5a) MWDA: Ghost War***** * If you want to know why the Clans are so hosed up ** Haha, no, kidding *** If you read Way of the Clans or the entire Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy **** If you want to see how the series 'ends' ***** If you care about Victor Davion or want to understand why everyone hates Mechwarrior: Dark Age PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 14:21
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I would read Battletech comics if any existed.
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Feb 1, 2020 14:55
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I suggest alternatively, read the actual first Battletech trilogy first: Decision at Thunder Rift Mercenary's Star The Price of Glory all by William H. Keith Jr. It's a "softer" entry point, without all that political crap of the Warrior-trilogy. Still neat to see an Inner Sphere even more hosed up then in the later books.
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Feb 1, 2020 14:57
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And Tyler Too! posted:I would read Battletech comics if any existed. The Spider and the Wolf is the first one, set in 3015 around the time of the Marik Civil War. It's canon-ish and covers Joshua Wolf's death. Then there was apparently a Blackthorne comic series I know nothing about but it looks, uh...  Bad. Edit: Hahaha: "Upon returning to their base, Max and his men learn that they had been declared dead when they received orders for their banzai charge. Chiba explains that the only honorable way out for them is to commit seppuku. A funeral ceremony is held on the same evening in their presence, and Max and his men are supposed to kill themselves in the morning." PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 15:45
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They literally just took the stock Unseen pic of the Phoenix Hawk and drew around it.
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Feb 1, 2020 17:13
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Why is he exploding out of his clothes
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Feb 1, 2020 17:15
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How are the HBS Battletech stories?
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Feb 1, 2020 18:10
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How do you mean? Do you mean the flashpoints? They're almost universally pretty good, to great. The original campaign is pretty good, if a bit predictable. The kickstarter novellas were Stackpole. The sourcebook for the Aranos they helped make and put out was short, but decent.
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Feb 1, 2020 18:23
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This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
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Feb 1, 2020 19:01
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Arrinien posted:This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks! There are other good ones scattered in there, too. You might like the Gray Death Legion novels, and there are a fair number of "random mercenary company does [thing]" novels in the interim period between the Clan Invasion and the Twilight of the Clans that can be fun. They're usually 1-2 book romps. And of course if you want to read the actual worst book in the franchise Far Country is technically set during that same interim period. Far Country is about a group of mercenaries and DEST ninjas who misjump out of known space and wind up on a planet populated by neolithic bird aliens (Kakapos with spears, basically), where there are three human kingdoms that are all allegorical representations of power, greed, and religion and nothing particularly makes sense. The novel ends with all the good humans leaving to go In other words, Far Country is Edit: I can't type today.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:44
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PoptartsNinja posted:And of course if you want to read the actual worst book in the franchise Far Country is technically set during that same interim period. counterpoint: DRT
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Feb 1, 2020 20:52
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Sky Shadowing posted:How do you mean? Do you mean the flashpoints? They're almost universally pretty good, to great. The original campaign is pretty good, if a bit predictable. The kickstarter novellas were Stackpole. The sourcebook for the Aranos they helped make and put out was short, but decent. I mean the Stackpole Novellas.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:57
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Cease to Hope posted:counterpoint: DRT I keep on thinking that's a Shadowrun novel.
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Feb 1, 2020 22:08
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There's only one Battletech novel that matters.
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Feb 1, 2020 22:56
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that's the novel PTN just effortposted about, on this page even
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Feb 1, 2020 23:00
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gently caress you I don't read words.
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Feb 1, 2020 23:02
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This . . . thing . . . exists solely to commit war crimes, and I could not love it more for that fact:
Zarin fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 01:54
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:There's only one Battletech novel that matters. That sure is some cover art. I was really hoping for something more imaginative for the bird people.
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Feb 2, 2020 17:12
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Warmachine posted:That sure is some cover art. I was really hoping for something more imaginative for the bird people. It's bad because the bird seems to blend into the tree or whatever is on the left of the image, making it look like an extension of some larger being or something. I've always hated that picture. That book is a very important cultural artifact in the history of Goon MechWarrior lore, however. Zarin fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 17:16
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Warmachine posted:That sure is some cover art. I was really hoping for something more imaginative for the bird people. Its arms come out of its hips I'm just imagining that thing walking with its arms flailing uncontrollably
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Feb 2, 2020 17:23
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Warmachine posted:That sure is some cover art. I was really hoping for something more imaginative for the bird people. The bird people worship the strandee's Locusts because Locusts kinda resemble them. It's an allegory for the idiot peasants of the Inner Sphere viewing BattleMechs as unstoppable god-machines, which was what the Terran Hegemony convinced / coerced everyone into believe. Giant Robots were the Terran Hegemony's method of keeping the Great Houses broke and weak (and not swarming the Hegemony under with billion-person-strong infantry regiments, which any one of the Great Houses could have done during the age of war if they'd ever thought to try it). The answer to "Why don't they just [sensible thing]?" is always "because the Terran Hegemony had a very good PR team."
PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 17:24
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I think moving and housing and feeding your billion man army might become an issue.
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Feb 2, 2020 17:29
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Killing an entire planetary population with katanas is equally impractical but the Draconis Combine still nearly managed it.
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Feb 2, 2020 17:38
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I think moving and housing and feeding would still be the main issue there. The act of murder, even dozens of times a day, pales in comparison to moving the people around so that this can happen. I get that it's supposed to be a Rape of Nanking analog but Nanjing is only one city.
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Feb 2, 2020 18:01
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A billion people is not a significant number in a space empire spanning hundreds of worlds. Before the fall of the Star League there were colonized planets that couldn't grow food at all and they still got fed (those colonies all died in the first succession war). After the Succession Wars ruined most of the Inner Sphere's JumpShips the very idea of a mass infantry mobilization became impossible, but prior to it would have only been difficult (and not worth the effort because nukes). The Terran Hegemony did their level best to convince everyone 'Mechs were superior to nukes, too. They failed, but the Successor States figured out "oh, nukes still bad" eventually. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 19:16
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Dyz posted:Its arms come out of its hips looks more like they come out of its wings to me, which is even worse. like how does that work in term of its muscular structure? i don't think it even has hips; its legs seem to come straight out of its arsehole. definitely ungainly as gently caress though, you're right about that Wafflecopper fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 3, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 02:29
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Dyz posted:Its arms come out of its hips  In the 3090s, the Snow Ravens also forget where the arms go.
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Feb 3, 2020 02:31
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otoh that mech rules
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Feb 3, 2020 02:54
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PoptartsNinja posted:
Is that the Shakira?
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Feb 3, 2020 05:59
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Arglebargle III posted:Is there such a thing as a Reasonablemech that's just the biggest gun the chassis can carry, and everything else is armor, engine, and electronic warface systems? Isn't that thr Hunchback
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Feb 3, 2020 06:09
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