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Asehujiko posted:What souls do they use for warsphinxes? It's not specified in the army book, so presumably some soldier who managed real impressive poo poo. It could even be a team effort, who knows - the Necropolis Knights have a single soul controlling both rider and mount.
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Feb 3, 2020 15:32
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Washin Tong posted:All that stuff can be explained away with one word: "Souls", all the complicated stuff like Colossi is possessed by spooky ghosts or manipulated soul energy. I think the necrofex colossi are fueled by some poor living sucker that is sewn into the construct to direct the actions of the bundle of tormented souls that is used to animate the whole corpse pile. And as far as I understand, for the tomb king type of protonecromancy the level of preservation/rituals taken to preserve the corpse is essential to how much of the original soul/conciousness that can inhabit it. So the upper stratas of society get the whole original self, while the poors/skeleton troops get only fragments. Some elite troops also got the honor of being bound into stone constructs (ushabti) or higher level of preservation (tomb guard). Liche priests are not actually undead as far as I recall, they are more like 3000 year old dudes that are unable to die but continiue to age, which is why they are akin to shambling corpses.
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Feb 3, 2020 17:17
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Yeah the Liche Priests found the secret to eternal life but not eternal youth so life really sucks for them. Especially given the Tomb Kings are really pissed about being mummies and not alive. Also with the necrofex collossi I think you can actually see that there's all sorts of gross undead tendons and stuff on them. The ship is basically a scaffold for whatever horrible poo poo Noctilus got to make a power system for the ship golems.
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Feb 3, 2020 19:36
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Nagashian necromancy is death magic corrupted by dark magic, so it only works on dead things, be those corpses or souls. It also inherently spreads dark magic around which pollutes the environment: that's what vampiric corruption represents. Tomb King necromancy is mostly different: it's uses trapped life force instead of replacing life force with dark magic. This is way slower and less efficient but it also not inherently evil.
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Feb 3, 2020 19:48
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Asehujiko posted:What souls do they use for warsphinxes? Mine!!!
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Feb 3, 2020 19:58
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I'm a fairly new player to this and I've been playing Dwarfs. Had some pretty satisfying battles against orcs, and the kingdom's growing pretty large. My usual stack is the Lord, nine units of longbeards, four units of gyrocopters, four organ guns and two cannons. Works well, though things got dicey when Grimgor Ironhide showed up for the tenth time and everything he had had armour-piercing. Then I met Deathmaster Sniktch and his bad-looking stack of about twelve units. Couple of stormvermin units, couple of ratling guns, a jezzail, and a couple of plague mortars were the standout units, though there were like four lords in there. Looked like an easy fight, though I haven't played Skaven before so don't really know their capabilities. In the end the only things that remained on the battlefield were two units of gyrocopters, which is how I technically won. Entire units of mine just disappeared in inexplicable green explosions. Sniktch on his own killed my lord and about 150 dwarfs besides. Random clanrat units appeared under my artillery about six times during the fight. It was rad, but I can see where the power level comments about Skaven come from.
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Feb 3, 2020 21:45
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Menace From Below summons a single clanrats unit, a slightly below average T1 infantry. Two long beards could cover your artillery line, assume every Skaven you fight will shotgun 2-6 summons out per battle because the cooldown is only 45 seconds. Sounds like you need an anti-Lord/Hero goon squad. I usually run a melee hero in most armies just for that purpose, Lord and Thane can 2v1 trouble really well. To be really thorough an elite infantry squad would be a good investment. And yeah, the spells are just, yeah, fuckin' Skaven.
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Feb 3, 2020 22:07
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Doomykins posted:And yeah, the spells are just, yeah, fuckin' Skaven.
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Feb 3, 2020 22:28
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snikch gives buffs to heroes, so his are more supercharged than usual. but yeah, sounds like your army was geared towards fighting scores of lovely inf and went up against some supreme bullshit
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Feb 3, 2020 22:59
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Geisladisk posted:Hi, I have necromancy questions, sponsored by insomnia There are probably going to be different answers depending on which book you read, but the most thorough description of Necromancy is the Liber Necris, which is an in-setting account of the history of necromancy and the undead, written by Mannfred von Carstein. (Games Workshop released a few books in this vein, like Xenology, an investigation into alien biology conducted by the Inquisition and the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the Liber Chaotica books, which were framed as a collected series of articles and monographs by Old World scholars about the nature of Chaos and Chaos-worshippers. They had a lot of neat stuff, like essays on the cultures and religions of the Kurgan, Norscans and Hung, or a lecture given by Magnus the Pious when he was still a theology student, on the nature of despair and its relationship to Nurgle.) According to Mannfred, modern necromancy is based on the Nehekharan view of the body and soul, which held that a living person could be divided into seven parts: the Kha (the physical body, or corpse), the Ka (Ego, or abstract thought), the Ba (Emotion and the subconscious), the Ab (Conscience, and freedom of choice), Sekhem (Life force, or magical power), the Ren (Which is hard to define, but something like a true name, or distinct identity) and the Khaibit (Shadow, a by-product of physical existence, which implies that its holder is subject to time and mortality). The Nehekharans also believed in the soul (called the Akhu), and that this both persisted after death, and was the same person as the living being it had come from. However, the Akhu was a combination of the Ka, Ba, Ab, Ren and Sekhem, and while it was theoretically immortal, it was not indivisible or indestructible, and various gods and demons could break it apart and consume parts or all of it after death. The Liche Priests tried to get around this by binding the Akhu to the physical body, to protect it from these spiritual dangers, but this had the trade-off that the physical body was still subject to time, and would gradually wear down. Since they had promised their masters an eternal resurrection, intact in mind and body, this wasn't good enough (though it seems to have been good enough for the Liche Priests themselves). The next step for the Liche Priests was studying demons and djinn, who didn't have a Kha, but still had a physical form that could contain the whole of their Akhu. They called this form the Sahu, the incorruptible home of the Akhu, but this still had disadvantages; demons and the like were inhabitants of the Aethyr (or Warp), and could only send their Sahu into the physical world for a little while, through active summoning and a lot of magical effort. So the Liche Priests' goal became creating a Sahu that could maintain itself in the physical world indefinitely. According to Mannfred, Nagash was the first to accomplish this, mostly through consuming vast quantities of warpstone. Vampires also have a Sahu, but they're able to permanently exist in the physical world by binding their Sahu to their Kha. So in a certain light, you could say that vampires are essentially demonhosts, who've bound their transformed spirits to their own corpses. They have all the parts of a living person except the Khaibit, the shadow or mortality (According to Mannfred, vampires don't actually cast shadows except by conscious effort). The other kinds of undead created by Necromancy can also all be categorised in this way. Zombies are corpses (Kha) animated by magic (Sekhem) and which cast shadows (Khaibit). They don't have Ka, Ba, Ab, or Ren at all, but are controlled and moved by their own rotting brain and muscles, according to whatever commands the necromancer who raised them implanted into them (Which seems to raise some questions?). Skeletons are like zombies, but don't have a brain or muscles, so the necromancer has to invest them with more Sekhem and at least a little Ka of their own, so they can move and follow orders. There are also a variety of incorporeal undead, which are mostly fragments of dead souls (and the occasional necromancer who really hosed up his attempt at immortality), which are primarily Ba, Sekhem, Ka, and Ren. The only undead to combine the animation and soul-binding sides of necromancy are Wights (Grave guard, black knights, etc), which are a dead soul trapped within its former body. Mannfred notes that it's almost impossible to draw back all the fragments of a dead soul from the Aethyr, and only Nagash has ever succeeded in it. A necromancer who wants to raise his own wights needs to either make preparations before the wight-to-be's death, or luck into a soul that's been naturally trapped like this (I think the End Times had one of these - a former emperor who'd been cursed by Morr for his greed - who Vlad raised to defend Altdorf). Even so, wights are lacking parts of their souls, including capacity for emotion, and almost all conscience. Anyway, this has all been a lot of  , so:The Point: Mannfred does describe golems in his list of necromantic creatures, which are animated in fundamentally the same way as skeletons, but can be made from anything, including stone, wood, etc. They are better than skeletons in some ways, in that they can survive after their creator has been destroyed, are generally tougher and stronger due to their construction, and can be made to have genuine intelligence and independent thought. They're described as the apex of the animation side of necromancy, and they're considerably harder to create than normal undead. Ushabti are specifically named as a type of golem, albeit ones made by Nehekharan priestly magic, rather than Nagash's necromancy. So in answer to your question, necromancers can animate things other than dead bodies, and can create intelligent beings out of whole cloth, without binding a pre-existing spirit (in fact, that's actually much harder to do). So in principle, you could have necromancers who do nothing but animate golems without ever mucking about with the dead, and could maybe put those golems to good use. However, necromancy is essentially a fusion of dark magic and the wind of death, and animating corpses seems much, much easier for it to do than anything else - in fact, I'm not sure that there are any constructs in the Vampire Counts armybooks. There probably wouldn't be many necromancers who could animate non-undead constructs, certainly not in any great number. Additionally, using dark magic has a corrosive effect on its users' sanity and sense of morals. Necromancy does actually mitigate the risks of dark magic to some extent (Mannfred compares the way necromancy uses the wind of death to a pair of tongs - it lets necromancers manipulate dark magic without directly touching it, so to speak) but even so, necromancers do fairly infallibly end up becoming insane and evil. Vampires seem to be resistant to this (well, Mannfred would say that...), but even he admits that any vampire with more than a century under its belt is going to be, by human standards, a bloodthirsty psychopath. Jo Joestar fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 3, 2020 23:09
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There's some stuff in the RPG books about how dwarves used to be able to build robots, powered by the correct set of runes. They lost the ability to make them but every now and then an expedition to an old hold gets attacked by a mech with axes and cannons for hands because someone told it 'kill all intruders' 3000 years ago or something.
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Feb 3, 2020 23:12
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Massive nerd Mannfred was so much better than Starscream. He also looked cooler.
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Feb 3, 2020 23:23
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This is legit super interesting. My first thought is I wonder how it compares to vampire coast necromancy. Luthor Harkon's whole thing was that he learned how to create zombies that explicitly retained their personality from when they were alive. I wonder if he wound up with techniques from the Tomb Kings that allow him to maintain more of the subjects spirit.
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Feb 3, 2020 23:48
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Eimi posted:Massive nerd Mannfred was so much better than Starscream. He also looked cooler. He went crazy after he lost his hair
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Feb 3, 2020 23:57
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DeathSandwich posted:This is legit super interesting. My first thought is I wonder how it compares to vampire coast necromancy. Luthor Harkon's whole thing was that he learned how to create zombies that explicitly retained their personality from when they were alive. I wonder if he wound up with techniques from the Tomb Kings that allow him to maintain more of the subjects spirit. I also heard that Morr, the God of death in their pantheon, HATES Necromancy because it hijacks the natural cycle of life and the Death God is legit figure along with the others that priests worship, not an evil or malevolent presence at all.
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Feb 4, 2020 00:13
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Panfilo posted:I think this has something to do with them being the 'property' of Manaan, the sea god. You'll note that Vampire Coast is all about killing nasty sea creatures then resurrecting them, because they can only control them when they are dead. Morr is an old style "death is inevitable" style death god like Hades or Hel that comes from a time when death was much more part of everyday life. He's just doing his job and taking care of souls. His followers include knights that wear obsidian plate mail armor and keep graveyards undefiled by necromancers and vampires which is metal as gently caress. 
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Feb 4, 2020 00:28
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Night10194 posted:There's some stuff in the RPG books about how dwarves used to be able to build robots, powered by the correct set of runes. They lost the ability to make them but every now and then an expedition to an old hold gets attacked by a mech with axes and cannons for hands because someone told it 'kill all intruders' 3000 years ago or something. I love those style of bosses in dungeons. Old antiquated terminators finally are up to the plate!
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Feb 4, 2020 00:35
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How does TWW1 DLC work in ME, particularly the free stuff? Does it still exist? Do I need to download it somehow? It doesn't let me unless i install TWW1.
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Feb 4, 2020 00:56
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Elukka posted:How does TWW1 DLC work in ME, particularly the free stuff? Does it still exist? Do I need to download it somehow? It doesn't let me unless i install TWW1. It's supposed to be downloadable regardless but I've had a couple friends that had to install 1 + the dlc and launch it to get it to show up in 2. Once they did that it was fine.
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Feb 4, 2020 01:03
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the free-dlc stuff is bizarre in that to activate is you need to "install" each one manually, but installing it just boots up the game. so you probably need to install TWW1 so it can boot it up to get it.
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Feb 4, 2020 01:08
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Captain Oblivious posted:My dude I can spell every LLs name flawlessly and I only play on Normal. I know a guy who only plays Legendary and can’t spell any because he doesn’t give a gently caress. You sound like a grognard moron right now harping on the spelling thing. I also play L and basically this is the only lore I know: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OXQwx1EolD8
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Feb 4, 2020 01:40
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Gamerofthegame posted:the free-dlc stuff is bizarre in that to activate is you need to "install" each one manually, but installing it just boots up the game. Installing any bit of DLC is bizarre in this game. I've purchased every single one and I swear each time I'm just randomly clicking install and DLC buttons a bunch of times and restarting the client until the content is magically there.
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Feb 4, 2020 01:51
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You can only play TWW 1 stuff in Mortal Empires, and you can only play Mortal Empires if you have game 1, unless they changed it. Fake edit: The only TWW1 DLC I can think of that can make it into Vortex are the Empire units added in Grim and the Grave and some FreeLC Empire wizards, and you’d have to be playing as Wulfhart to access them. Not sure how that works.
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Feb 4, 2020 01:52
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If the new DLC isn't called The Paunch and the Ponce then CA loses all my respect.
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Feb 4, 2020 03:17
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thebardyspoon posted:It's supposed to be downloadable regardless but I've had a couple friends that had to install 1 + the dlc and launch it to get it to show up in 2. Once they did that it was fine.
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Feb 4, 2020 03:22
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You don’t have to install tww1 to get the dlc in 2. Just click the tww1 dlc from steam, it’ll open the launcher, close the launcher. Rinse and repeat. I think if you try to do it from the game it tries to install the first game.
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Feb 4, 2020 04:57
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DeathSandwich posted:This is legit super interesting. My first thought is I wonder how it compares to vampire coast necromancy. Luthor Harkon's whole thing was that he learned how to create zombies that explicitly retained their personality from when they were alive. I wonder if he wound up with techniques from the Tomb Kings that allow him to maintain more of the subjects spirit. Harkon was one of Nagash's original disciples. If someone would figure out how to do something like that it would be one of those guys.
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Feb 4, 2020 05:37
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MonsterEnvy posted:Harkon was one of Nagash's original disciples. If someone would figure out how to do something like that it would be one of those guys. No he wasn't. He was one of the original vampires but that is more of the big names siring him then anything special about himself.
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Feb 4, 2020 05:51
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He was some kind of elite guard in Lahmia and eventually either Abhorash (the Blood Dragon counterpart of Vlad) or someone turned by him turned Luthor into a vampire. This was back when some of the tomb kings had flesh almost as thick as Mannfred's hair.
Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 4, 2020 06:16
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He's technically a Blood Dragon, which makes him one of Abhorash's disciples.
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Feb 4, 2020 06:18
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I think Harkon the pirate is a later descendant of Wallach Harkon, the guy who pretends to be the head of the Blood Dragons because Abhorash is usually busy being Sad Mountain Vampire and not doing anything but being a hermit. Wallach was Abhorash's actual student back before Lahmia fell, and he's a total prick whose favorite pastime is coming up with why any tactic anyone used to kick his rear end was totally cheating. His big claim to fame was getting scared and running away from the dragon Abhorash killed to give the bloodline their name. Luthar is way cooler than that guy, on account of being a pirate, and also not a whining coward. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 4, 2020 06:26
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They were alive at the same time actually, Lutr Harkoni and Walak Harkoni. Later Luthor and Wallace Harkon. Probably brothers or cousins maybe uncle and nephew in some order in the military who ended up being turned by Abhorash.
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Feb 4, 2020 06:41
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Finally committed to fully upgrading my computer. Will be nice to play this with the settings up and not have to worry about jankiness.
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Feb 4, 2020 06:44
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Klaus88 posted:Morr is an old style "death is inevitable" style death god like Hades or Hel that comes from a time when death was much more part of everyday life. He's just doing his job and taking care of souls. At midnight of Gemstelnacht, his followers scream his name three times to ward off baleful spirits. I'm not making that up.
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Feb 4, 2020 06:51
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Stabbing grammy, just to be safe
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Feb 4, 2020 07:25
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The mental image of this super grimdark deathmetal knight just chilling in a graveyard and pointing his sword at the "DO NOT gently caress" sign every time some robed weirdo comes shuffling along is hilarious. Like some undertaker is just subtly trying to touch a dead lady's boob and this jet black knight hovering over him just coughs really loudly to get him to stop. They also took a vow of silence which is supposed to make them seem even more spooky so I guess they communicate in sign language.
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Feb 4, 2020 07:34
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Panfilo posted:They also took a vow of silence which is supposed to make them seem even more spooky so I guess they communicate in sign language. They understand that less is Morr.
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Feb 4, 2020 09:41
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SirPhoebos posted:At midnight of Gemstelnacht, his followers scream his name three times to ward off baleful spirits. Just to be clear, you're saying that in the midnight hour, they cry Morr, Morr, Morr?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:09
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ReWinter posted:Just to be clear, you're saying that in the midnight hour, they cry Morr, Morr, Morr? glad I didn't have to spell out the joke myself 
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Feb 4, 2020 14:31
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Almost everything in Warhammer is a dad joke from the 80s. Also End Times/AoS/Cylostra/Kroxigor lords/black people existing/etc ruined ~~~the lore~~~ and we should hold a blood feud against the people who changed the sacred hams bible.
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Feb 4, 2020 14:37
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