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Guavanaut posted:Isn't Biden's alleged Black friend called Corn Dog or something and may in fact be someone he saw in a minstrel show on TV in his youth which he's confusing with reality. Korn Dawg, get with it grandpaw 
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Feb 4, 2020 10:28
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Ah yeah, Corn Pop was the gang leader of The Romans who he fought with a knife and chain.
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Feb 4, 2020 10:31
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EmptyVessel posted:Somehow I never saw that one. Did they at least try to make moves in time to the music? Who played? Alex Paterson vs ...? (Pretty sure Wobble and Hillage could have mimed their bass and guitar bits) e:Should have asked Jimmy Cauty for how-to-mime-the-impossible tips. Alex Paterson and Thrash, I think it was. And no, they sat there wearing spacesuits and playing chess - no acknowledgement of the music or the audience. And they weren't going to ask Jimmy Cauty poo poo, considering how he left. You could conceivably be right about the not-Jaz though.
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Feb 4, 2020 10:33
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Guavanaut posted:Ah yeah, Corn Pop was the gang leader of The Romans who he fought with a knife and chain. I'd completely forgotten about the whole Corn Pop thing, so thank you for giving me a hearty chuckle when remembering this man wants to have the nuclear codes, but I was referring to his slightly more famous black friend, the one who wouldn't return his calls for months and only very half-heartedly endorsed him for president at the last minute despite having him as his VP for 8 years. Incidentally, fun game to play on Twitter - every time someone brings up just about anything negative about Biden, count how many low-follower African-American avis pile in to say "This isn't true Barack vetted him". Even their astroturfing is racist, FFS.
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Feb 4, 2020 10:40
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a pipe smoking dog posted:Did SF just assume they would never get enough votes for their second candidate to come into play? Or do they just not have enough resources to even try? Assuming a healthy bump in the polls they probably fielded enough candidates (one in most and a few two seaters in heartland seats) think they'd be up maybe +4-5% with the aim of getting TDs in seats they currently have no representatives in - issue is polls are saying they could hit +10% in urban seats which could mean where they currently hold a seat they could safely elect their rep on first count with generous surplus for a second candidate to be in prime position to be elected. Fielding two candidates can be a gamble though - if you split your vote too heavily you drop your relative position in the running so it's unlikely one candidate will be elected with a generous surplus and could mean your candidates place lower than other parties who's possible transfers would assist your candidates, so you can wind up getting eliminated before another party likely to transfer to you and you lose those potential transfers sitting in the stack of a left candidate sitting on 7%. SF have historically been transfer unfriendly with most votes from other parties going elsewhere so relying on second pref transfers has never been a sure thing for SF - playing it safe makes sense based on their historic electoral results tbh. You've also got the danger that if your first candidate isn't elected on the first count that when your second candidate gets knocked out the entirity of their vote doesn't transfer down, asking for a 1st pref is easier than trying to enforce full 1-2-3 vote discipline. Something like that happened to SF in Donegal in 2016 where a left leaning independent picked up ~200 vote from SF candidates surplus and transfers and pipped their second candidate to the final seat by about the same number.
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Feb 4, 2020 10:43
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kustomkarkommando posted:Assuming a healthy bump in the polls they probably fielded enough candidates (one in most and a few two seaters in heartland seats) think they'd be up maybe +4-5% with the aim of getting TDs in seats they currently have no representatives in - issue is polls are saying they could hit +10% in urban seats which could mean where they currently hold a seat they could safely elect their rep on first count with generous surplus for a second candidate to be in prime position to be elected. It takes some dedication to come up with a sillier system than FPTP but kudos to Ireland for managing it.
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Feb 4, 2020 10:44
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This just reminded me that the Biden Bus exists, an entire paint job to say "now in my day we called a bus a trav'lin coach, and it didn't have no rest facilities, so if you had to go number one, you'd have to go in your juice flask, and you didn't want to sit at the back, cause that's where Corn Pop sat" at an increasingly uncomfortable young couple sat at a bus stop.
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Feb 4, 2020 10:53
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It takes some dedication to come up with a sillier system than FPTP but kudos to Ireland for managing it. While it can lead to weird quirks like this, PRSTV* is a way better system than most others. I am wondering with what has happened in Tipperary, will SF send in a bunch of candidates for the new later election? *= Proportion Representation, Single Transferable Vote.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:06
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The Dem field so perfectly encapsulates modern America though - a baby boomer with a rapidly-liquefying brain who says he's entitled to be in control because he's old (and has one black friend so calling for the imprisonment of everyone darker than underdone toast is fine), a woman who uses invented Native ancestry to excuse every misdeed, several men with no actual ability or talent who are unaccountably richer than God, and of course the man who's been involved in every flavour of American imperialism and hegemony of the post-war era who has directly caused pain and suffering to thousands but he's gay so it's alright. Bernie is Jewish so has something different even though he's white
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Feb 4, 2020 11:21
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Guavanaut posted:This just reminded me that the Biden Bus exists, an entire paint job to say "now in my day we called a bus a trav'lin coach, and it didn't have no rest facilities, so if you had to go number one, you'd have to go in your juice flask, and you didn't want to sit at the back, cause that's where Corn Pop sat" at an increasingly uncomfortable young couple sat at a bus stop. I honestly can't tell if this is real. Is it? Everything about it screams Arrested Development.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:23
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Jose posted:Bernie is Jewish so has something different even though he's white
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Feb 4, 2020 11:24
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"Malarkey" looks really odd when spelled out.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:46
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crispix posted:I honestly can't tell if this is real. Is it? Everything about it screams Arrested Development. I wish I could tell you it is fake but somehow it is real.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:48
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crispix posted:I honestly can't tell if this is real. Is it? Everything about it screams Arrested Development. Narrator: It was.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:51
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Guavanaut posted:I'm not sure that would account for it; there's about 200,000 Gypsies, Roma, and Travellers in the UK, probably more. Birthrates are slightly higher than demographic average but not massively so, so let's say 240,000 and 25% are of school age, so 60,000, 30,000 or so are boys. Compare that to about 9.3m enrolled full and part time school students in England and Wales, and around 7.5m of those would be considered 'White British', 50% of those boys, so 3.75m, and ~14% on free school meals, so 525,000. You'd need negative educational achievement from every Traveller boy and standard achievement from Traveller girls to give that much sway, which given that the article discusses gender disparity in the other direction in education achievement I don't think would fit. By your numbers, officially recognised travellers are over 5% of ‘White British’, which is easily enough to bring a given metric down by one or two percent. It’s not like you are looking at a massive, persistent US style gulf between races. It’s just an anomaly that education professionals should be (and presumably are) looking at. There are also other distinct sort-of ethnic white subgroups who have some of the same characteristics For example, it is kind of accepted amongst most farming communities that you send those kids who want to inherit the farm to agricultural college. Now, imagine if agricultural college didn’t exist, and the choices were entirely ‘pick it up on the job’ or ‘go do a biology degree, work in HR in the city, and see you parents once a year’. If that was the case, then all kinds of rural communities would have the same educational statistics as Travellers do.
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Feb 4, 2020 11:52
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The Question IRL posted:While it can lead to weird quirks like this, PRSTV* is a way better system than most others. I'd still say Tipp is only a one SF seat at best - Michael Lowry could murder a man in broad daylight and still be elected, Mattie McGrath is your local rural man kind of TD and has been going hard against Harris over health issues so could safe, FF where just shy of 1.5 quotas last time so they will get a seat - last two seats went to Healy who is a solid socialist republican with a local flavour and Alan Kelly, who though he is much despised elsewhere has a good ground game. SF finished 8th on first preferences last time so to win they'll be looking to peel votes from Healy, Kelly and McGarth- probably not enough to get them two candidates but winning a single seat in Tipp would be a very good result for them
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Feb 4, 2020 11:53
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radmonger posted:By your numbers, officially recognised travellers are over 5% of ‘White British’, which is easily enough to bring a given metric down by one or two percent. It’s not like you are looking at a massive, persistent US style gulf between races. It’s just an anomaly that education professionals should be (and presumably are) looking at.  That can't be entirely down to Travelling communities, there just aren't enough Travellers, and it doesn't explain the gender disparity. The government's big worry with Traveller groups was that traditional gender roles require girls to withdraw from education to look after younger siblings, so you'd expect similar or worse pass rates for girls in the same category. Also lower pass rates for boys being replicated across all ethnicities and classes (except Chinese free meals students) implies that there's some greater pattern going on.
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Feb 4, 2020 12:03
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Guavanaut posted:You're not looking at one or two percent though, you're looking at 'White British' boys with free school meals having a pass rate 10% lower than girls in the same group, and 15-20% lower than BAME boys on free school meals. Fair point, I was thinking of the overall white British numbers, not only those on free school meals. But isn’t free school meals going to be a really bad proxy for class for any ethnic group with a substantial immigrant component? A literature professor currently working as an Uber driver is still going to bring their kids up with the kids up with the expectations and values of a literature professor.
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Feb 4, 2020 12:14
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Also I'm deliberately highballing the Traveller numbers in English schools by using student numbers for England and Wales and Traveller numbers for the UK (+20% to account for census non-participation). A disproportionate (compared to gen. pop.) number of Irish Travellers will unsurprisingly be living in NI or Scotland, so making up 5% of all 'White British' students enrolled in England is very unlikely. That doesn't mean that there aren't specific educational requirements for the Traveller community, I think that would be made obvious if they were separated out on the chart. Farming communities would be an interesting one to look at too, but I'm not even sure that would account for it, 90% of the UK lives in some kind or organized city or town, though those that don't skew heavily white. A disparity between economic class and educational level is an interesting angle, but there's still the gender divide there, which seems remarkably constant across ethnic groups and economic class.
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Feb 4, 2020 12:26
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Guavanaut posted:That can't be entirely down to Travelling communities, there just aren't enough Travellers, and it doesn't explain the gender disparity. The government's big worry with Traveller groups was that traditional gender roles require girls to withdraw from education to look after younger siblings, so you'd expect similar or worse pass rates for girls in the same category. Why? If they don't attend school then they won't appear in the figures.
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Feb 4, 2020 12:48
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In a bit of good news, I went for my tenth annual checkup on my brain tumour since treatment, and it's still gone. Ten years marks the point where the NHS is happy to discharge you from care, or move you onto a two-yearly review. So, that's amazing. I'm... all good? I was 22 when I was first admitted with this, so I've had it most of my adult life. Memento vivere!
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Feb 4, 2020 12:49
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Red Oktober posted:In a bit of good news, I went for my tenth annual checkup on my brain tumour since treatment, and it's still gone. That is good news  You gonna be celebrating tonight?
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Feb 4, 2020 12:52
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Cyril Sneeer posted:That is good news Yay brains! Boo livers! Great news Red!
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Feb 4, 2020 12:56
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Apologies for off topic, but I just found out I got permission to trade in person for the first time at an upcoming convention. Obviously I’m excited as all hell (if a little nervous). And if you happen to attend LARPCon later this month then drop me a ‘stairs’ for special treatment. Currently I’m researching suitable trays to wear around my neck, and feeling mildly disturbed that they’re universally referred to as ‘usherette trays’ and modelled almost entirely by pretty women in 1950s dresses. I don’t know whether it’s the implicit sexism in the marketing or internalised misogyny or fragile masculinity on my part, but for some reason it makes me feel really uncomfortable.
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Feb 4, 2020 12:58
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Jedit posted:Why? If they don't attend school then they won't appear in the figures. Children never enrolled in a school obviously won't appear at all, but there's no evidence for large numbers of unenrolled girls. Red Oktober posted:In a bit of good news, I went for my tenth annual checkup on my brain tumour since treatment, and it's still gone. 
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Feb 4, 2020 12:58
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Cyril Sneeer posted:That is good news Abso-bloody-lutely. Can't wait. It's a bit weird to no longer be 'in recovery'. I'm looking forward to it.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:00
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Guavanaut posted:You're not looking at one or two percent though, you're looking at 'White British' boys with free school meals having a pass rate 10% lower than girls in the same group, and 15-20% lower than BAME boys on free school meals. Not that it changes your point since the numbers seem to be very similar, but in case anyone's interested, more recent data (for 2017/18) is available here. Looks like the Irish Traveller & Roma Gypsy groups have minimal effect on the overall averages, although it's staggering how low their attainment figures are: they get around half the attainment scores for White British boys on free school meals, who are the next lowest scoring group. There's a clearly defined attainment problem for White British kids that's related to free school eligibility: White British boys/girls on free school meals perform very significantly below the averages, whereas those not on free school meals are more or less bang on the average for attainment.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:09
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Camrath posted:Apologies for off topic, but I just found out I got permission to trade in person for the first time at an upcoming convention. Obviously I’m excited as all hell (if a little nervous). And if you happen to attend LARPCon later this month then drop me a ‘stairs’ for special treatment. Clearly it's more CMOT Dibbler.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:10
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BizarroAzrael posted:Clearly it's more CMOT Dibbler. I hadn’t realised this was my go-to image of ‘person selling stuff from a tray’ until you pointed it out. Though I assure you my fudge is made from genuine ingredients and also has a very low chance of opening a portal to the dungeon dimensions.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:12
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Guavanaut posted:You're not looking at one or two percent though, you're looking at 'White British' boys with free school meals having a pass rate 10% lower than girls in the same group, and 15-20% lower than BAME boys on free school meals. Fair point, I was thinking of the overall white British numbers, not only those on free school meals. But isn’t free school meals going to be a really bad proxy for class for any ethnic group with a substantial immigrant component? A literature professor currently working as an Uber driver is still going to bring their kids up with the expectations and values of a literature professor.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:15
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Camrath posted:I hadn’t realised this was my go-to image of ‘person selling stuff from a tray’ until you pointed it out. We were thinking more of Dibbler's sausages of unknown origin, Mr I-Think-I'll-Make-Marmite-Fudge. 
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Feb 4, 2020 13:16
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Camrath posted:and also has a very low chance of opening a portal to the dungeon dimensions. WHAT cancelling my order 
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Feb 4, 2020 13:20
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Niric posted:Not that it changes your point since the numbers seem to be very similar, but in case anyone's interested, more recent data (for 2017/18) is available here. Looks like the Irish Traveller & Roma Gypsy groups have minimal effect on the overall averages, although it's staggering how low their attainment figures are: they get around half the attainment scores for White British boys on free school meals, who are the next lowest scoring group. There's a clearly defined attainment problem for White British kids that's related to free school eligibility: White British boys/girls on free school meals perform very significantly below the averages, whereas those not on free school meals are more or less bang on the average for attainment. Camrath posted:I hadn’t realised this was my go-to image of ‘person selling stuff from a tray’ until you pointed it out.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:22
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Jedit posted:We were thinking more of Dibbler's sausages of unknown origin, Mr I-Think-I'll-Make-Marmite-Fudge. Now now, don’t confuse experiments at the bleeding edge of confectionary science for poor trading practices! Also I’ll argue that the origin of Dibbler’s sausages was entirely known and just kept secret. Edit: also the marmite fudge was actually quite nice. I fed some to multiple goons and none of them have died (yet)!
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Feb 4, 2020 13:22
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radmonger posted:But isn’t free school meals going to be a really bad proxy for class for any ethnic group with a substantial immigrant component? A literature professor currently working as an Uber driver is still going to bring their kids up with the expectations and values of a literature professor. I suspect you're over-estimating the number of professors (and graduates) in FSM immigrant groups here to the extent that calling FSM "a really bad proxy" just isn't true, although you're there right there will be issues with the data which need to be accounted for. The huge (HUGE) advantage of FSM as a metric is that it's very easy to collect (compared to the education level or self-identified class of all parents/carers, or something like the number of books at home) and does indicate, to a significant degree, something about economic status. Niric fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 4, 2020 13:31
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Guavanaut posted:That's useful because it appears that the other students rolled into the white group (Europeans, Commonwealth & Americans, and multiple white heritage I guess?) are doing more to raise the white boys FSM result than the Roma and Traveller numbers are doing to lower it, and there's almost no difference between white boys FSM (28.5) and white British boys FSM (28.2). Also it proves that, while higher than average, by no means are the majority of Travellers on FSM/pupil premium programs, which I couldn't prove. If that difference is insignificant, then so is that between equivalent Black Caribbean groups (28.1). Except that this year, it’s fluctuated to the opposite sign. Middle class and elite immigrant groups currently lacking in cash leave everyone else in the dust, of course. What else do you expect when you charge above a years median wage for citizenship papers for a family?
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Feb 4, 2020 13:36
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It seems that African Caribbean and white British boys on FSM perform equivalently, but the smaller numbers of African Caribbean compared to other black or African students, and better performance of African students means that the overall FSM results are higher. Perhaps what we should be looking for are commonalities there. I'm not convinced that temporarily cash strapped elites are a large factor in most groups though, most Asian students are second or third generation, and most mixed ethnicity students (the youngest ethnic classification overall) would have been born here. Maybe one parent had to run immigration papers but they'd be a birth citizen.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:49
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This is purely anecdotal but when I was at (unremarkable comprehensive) school there was a seriously pronounced anti-intellectualism particularly amongst boys. It was very homogenously white so we never really had the racial context but doing well at school was always seen - sometimes even implicitly by the teachers! - as somehow effeminate and/or 'snooty' in a way that totally excluded you from being one of 'the guys'. It's utterly bizarre thinking back to that now but there you go! I wonder if it's still a thing today.
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Feb 4, 2020 13:58
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imo "white boys on free school meals achieve lower GCSE grades at schools" only becomes meaningful in any real sense when that's translated into actual lifetime achievement. Like, there's a big debate in certain law schools atm about the Athena SWAN equality thingy: to qualify for this equality certification thing, you need to shoot for a 50/50 gender balance in your undergraduates. At present, it's about 2/1 girls/boys, so the push is to try and attract more boys. A lot of us think that this is loving stupid, because the top of the legal profession is still overwhelmingly male, so trying to attract more boys before that's fixed is actively regressive. Of course, there's necessarily a time delay on measuring the correct metric, but there's no indication that we've actually fixed inequality now & this current generation of girls are gonna implement matriarchy, and I would view anyone claiming that there is with extreme suspicion. "White boys on free school meals" is such a weirdly specific metric though that it's hard to know what the proper comparison should be: white girls on FSM, BAME boys on FSM, white boys not on FSM, overall average, idfk. No statistician here but I guess for it to be really meaningful you'd have to do a shittonne more comparisons: white kids already perform a bit worse than average anyway, boys already perform worse than girls, and students qualifying for FSM do wayyyy worse than rich kids, but only the last one of these is actually a problem because white people and men go on to achieve more anyway, so why the hell would we want to give them any more advantage?! So, I guess the first question is, is there something specific to that particular combination of gender/race/income factors that makes it anything more than a combination of the recognised effects of its constituent parts - and, if so, does this actually translate into higher overall achievement, or is it a total nonissue because it's more-than balanced out by all the loving racism & sexism? Kinda JAQing off here since I genuinely have no clue whether there is something specific to that particular combination of factors, but considering how often it's cited by racists to shoot down actual equality measures and that it measures the wrong loving metric anyway I'd need a lot more evidence before accepting it as a real problem.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:12
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Shaun Lawson has been melting down for like 2 days straight lol https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1224650087508389889?s=19
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Feb 4, 2020 15:14
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