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Anias
Jun 3, 2010

It really is a lovely hat

Please keep reviewing Anita, it’s great.

Richard’s bizarre take on bigotry and general self hate is the worst to be around, which in a series with actual serial killers, full on psychopaths, and rapists is impressive.

Anita Blake: Richard is the Worst

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ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





You could say, even, that he’s kind of a dick.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Anias posted:

Please keep reviewing Anita, it’s great.

Hey thank you, I enjoy posting my impressions of what I read and I'm glad people enjoy 'em.

Also shoutout to my awful cold for making me want to go back to easy reading. Fantasy has been my bag lately but UF is just so much easier to read and track.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

StrixNebulosa posted:

Hey thank you, I enjoy posting my impressions of what I read and I'm glad people enjoy 'em.

Also shoutout to my awful cold for making me want to go back to easy reading. Fantasy has been my bag lately but UF is just so much easier to read and track.

I forget when Anita Blake goes full off the rails, but I’m excited to see your takes as you progress.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

DreamingofRoses posted:

I forget when Anita Blake goes full off the rails, but I’m excited to see your takes as you progress.

As I understand it, it... completes? advances? its genre-shifting in Obsidian Butterfly. Which I am genuinely excited to read, because as I understand it, the series doesn't go bad, it goes.... well, as one poster put it, it goes on a roadtrip across the genres in a very author-indulgent way, and is messy as hell in interesting ways. And there's a lot of sex.

I still don't know if I'll enjoy the series when this happens but I really do want to see how it evolves.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

StrixNebulosa posted:

As I understand it, it... completes? advances? its genre-shifting in Obsidian Butterfly. Which I am genuinely excited to read, because as I understand it, the series doesn't go bad, it goes.... well, as one poster put it, it goes on a roadtrip across the genres in a very author-indulgent way, and is messy as hell in interesting ways. And there's a lot of sex.

I still don't know if I'll enjoy the series when this happens but I really do want to see how it evolves.

I think it basically shifts into the genre of Hamilton’s Gentry series re: where the focus of the story is and just how much banging the main character does.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

DreamingofRoses posted:

I think it basically shifts into the genre of Hamilton’s Gentry series re: where the focus of the story is and just how much banging the main character does.

That's what I've heard, but I'm also gonna quote this post again because it's so fascinating:

Anias posted:

Lkh is fine if you don’t mind poly feminine wish fulfillment and excessive gun gadget porn, and you are in a good enough headspace to read books about trauma. She actually commented on reddit once that the reason she has a pen name that writes fluff stuff is because sometimes she isn’t in a good place to research serial killers. Note that there is loads of straight manly wish fulfillment all over that doesn’t get ragged on nearly as much. “You’re a Wizard, Harry”, for example. Lkh has a whole host of problems in the text because her series are however long it is, but again so does other works we talk about on the regular.

The Anita books start off noir-horror and are clearly inspired by Anne Rice and the usual crew of Hammett/Cain/Abbott. They slowly run along a meta plot of anita’s fascination, revulsion with and finally becoming the monster, much like a larger scale “Die a Little”. By the middle of the books, Anita wanders off to Santa Fe and finally embraces her monster when she meets monstrous ordinary humans and realizes that everyone is monstrous, and her refusal to be monstrous has caused people she swore to save to be harmed. It is very on brand for noir, horror, and is handled lightly enough amidst the spectacle that it doesn’t come up in these discussions as much as it should, which in its own way is interesting. If you just see orgies in the Anita Blake books you are ignoring other stuff that is thought provoking.

Obsidian Butterfly is a good book in a very Kafkaesque fashion. It’s where I would say the shift in Anita from avoiding monstrosity to trying to settle into her monstrosity happens. Various attempts by Anita over the next several books to sort out her own rise as a monstrous power eventually bring her into conflict with the people who actually thwart monsters, and that plot thread ends with the sort of awkward closure that is typical of real conflicts, no one is happily ever after but the therapist billing dept. Including fans of course.

Throughout all this are various sex scenes, and slice of life for the various groups of non-cishet-White people trying to deal with the deeply ironic “normal” world not liking them. Essentially LKH spends a good thousand words each book critiquing the idea that anything is or should be normal. Sometimes this is well integrated and shown not told, sometimes not so much.

She is a competent author that really upsets people by taking a popular noir-horror series and driving it firmly across the field of genres and ending up in her own space. She isn’t writing romance because she talks too realistically about love and relationships and there isn’t a HEA. She isn’t writing gumshoe because not every book is procedural. She isn’t writing pure UF because many books aren’t city life at all. She’s writing her own melange of fantastic-angsty-sliceoflife-noir-horror-therapypositive-gunsandruralpositive-queer books.

The sex is a big chunk of words that you can skip if it doesn’t do it for you. The series is probably available via a library, jump off whenever you find yourself alarmed at the path forward, because lkh is unapologetically not writing for everyone so if some direction bugs you it may or may not get better.

Usual trigger warnings for horror written by a particular class of “identifies trauma as tough” writers apply, there be really awful poo poo ahead and the narrator does not look away.

Well that turned out long.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost
I like Anais' analysis of it, and I want to say I've read up to Obsidian Butterfly (it's been a while and I don't remember super-well), but I'm primarily a fan of her Meredith Gentry series up until, I want to say A Shiver of Light, and I definitely saw a similarity in story focus shift and the quality of writing decrease between them both as the series goes on.

Also, when I say there's a focus on the characters banging, there's a LOT of focus on the characters banging. I'm still excited in seeing your reaction to it.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

DreamingofRoses posted:

I like Anais' analysis of it, and I want to say I've read up to Obsidian Butterfly (it's been a while and I don't remember super-well), but I'm primarily a fan of her Meredith Gentry series up until, I want to say A Shiver of Light, and I definitely saw a similarity in story focus shift and the quality of writing decrease between them both as the series goes on.

Also, when I say there's a focus on the characters banging, there's a LOT of focus on the characters banging. I'm still excited in seeing your reaction to it.

I recently read the first hundred pages of Merry 1 due to a friend goading me into it and I gotta say, given how much sex is in it already I'm curious to see how she can fit even more sex into it.

I also have to say that I really enjoyed it. It felt very much like Criminal Minds: gently caress Edition. I was going to read more of it but then I picked up Lunatic Cafe and first things first, I do really want to see how LKH goes from writing a heroine who is "no sex. ever. gently caress you." to Lunatic Cafe "sex after marriage only" to Merry Gentry "sex now"

Also part of why I enjoyed Merry's first hundred pages so much is that it's the first time I've seen any author - published or fanfic - deal with a gently caress drug in a realistic way. Normally in fanfic it's "oh no we have to gently caress now because of the drug" and maybe there's some angst afterwards but they kiss and make up, but in Merry she treats it like the date-rape biohazard that it is, puts herself at risk to convince the police that it's real and they need to treat it seriously, and is overall scarred by the experience. And then she fucks her selkie boyfriend so hard he spontaneously gets his skin back and dumps her to be a seal. I burst out laughing at that part, it's so true to everything I know about selkies.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

StrixNebulosa posted:

I recently read the first hundred pages of Merry 1 due to a friend goading me into it and I gotta say, given how much sex is in it already I'm curious to see how she can fit even more sex into it.

I also have to say that I really enjoyed it. It felt very much like Criminal Minds: gently caress Edition. I was going to read more of it but then I picked up Lunatic Cafe and first things first, I do really want to see how LKH goes from writing a heroine who is "no sex. ever. gently caress you." to Lunatic Cafe "sex after marriage only" to Merry Gentry "sex now"

Also part of why I enjoyed Merry's first hundred pages so much is that it's the first time I've seen any author - published or fanfic - deal with a gently caress drug in a realistic way. Normally in fanfic it's "oh no we have to gently caress now because of the drug" and maybe there's some angst afterwards but they kiss and make up, but in Merry she treats it like the date-rape biohazard that it is, puts herself at risk to convince the police that it's real and they need to treat it seriously, and is overall scarred by the experience. And then she fucks her selkie boyfriend so hard he spontaneously gets his skin back and dumps her to be a seal. I burst out laughing at that part, it's so true to everything I know about selkies.

You should finish it, and then book two. I like them because it’s porn with plot.

I will warn you that it gets intense when she goes back ‘home’ for a visit and it sets off an... interesting storyline. So trigger warnings, especially for abuse and torture.

DreamingofRoses fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Jan 30, 2020

Aerdan
Apr 14, 2012

Not Dennis NEDry
In the run-up to Peace Talks, Jim Butcher's site is doing weekly posts (for two weeks including today).

Today's features a Morgan POV microfic. Spoilers if you haven't read Turn Coat, Changes, and Cold Days.

Holy poo poo.

Some Pinko Commie
Jun 9, 2009

CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

Aerdan posted:

In the run-up to Peace Talks, Jim Butcher's site is doing weekly posts (for two weeks including today).

Today's features a Morgan POV microfic. Spoilers if you haven't read Turn Coat, Changes, and Cold Days.

Holy poo poo.

Nah, that's bullshit and I'm officially out of giving a poo poo about the Dresden Files. It just conflicts too hard with literally everything else Morgan did in the series.

Aerdan
Apr 14, 2012

Not Dennis NEDry
Does it, though? Harry's already known to be an unreliable narrator.

Vanadium Dame
May 29, 2002

HELLO I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT MY VERY STRONG OPINIONS

biracial bear for uncut posted:

It just conflicts too hard with literally everything else Morgan did in the series.

Agree completely. That microfic just seems so off and not just in the content but the tone as well, that...just doesn't sound like Morgan.

docbeard
Jul 19, 2011

Well, with all the best will in the world, Butcher's ability to capture non-Harry voices in this series is...mixed. Like, I've enjoyed most of his non-Harry-POV short stories but none of them really screamed "this is definitely Murphy/Marcone/Molly (he does like his M names) talking" at me.

The actual content I think more or less works with what we know of Morgan.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




It is also supposed to be a semi-private journal, so it isn't wholly unreasonable that it has a different "voice" than he uses to speak to somebody he regards as a potential Sauron.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.
I can buy most of it, but what I don't get is how could he knew about Nemesis and the corruption in the Council, all that stuff is supposed to be top secret, even among wizards.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

Angry Lobster posted:

I can buy most of it, but what I don't get is how could he knew about Nemesis and the corruption in the Council, all that stuff is supposed to be top secret, even among wizards.

He’s the assistant to the head Warden and apparently knew Dresden’s mom, so I’m assuming he’s able to have access to things that only the Council might get to know, or know things from a different source

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
It at least mostly fits. It explains why Morgan didn't just kill Dresden; he could've, and would've gotten away with it just fine.

Hub Cat
Aug 3, 2011

Trunk Lover

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It at least mostly fits. It explains why Morgan didn't just kill Dresden; he could've, and would've gotten away with it just fine.

I don't really feel like this needed an explanation :shrug:. He's a big rear end in a top hat cop that cares about the rules and duty above all other things, killing Dresden in cold blood would go against that.

Aerdan
Apr 14, 2012

Not Dennis NEDry

Hub Cat posted:

I don't really feel like this needed an explanation :shrug:. He's a big rear end in a top hat cop that cares about the rules and duty above all other things, killing Dresden in cold blood would go against that.

wow how dare jim butcher write a character to be more than a single dimension oh my god characters cant do poo poo for multiple reasons ever

(Also, again, Harry is not a reliable narrator.)

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Aerdan posted:

wow how dare jim butcher write a character to be more than a single dimension oh my god characters cant do poo poo for multiple reasons ever

(Also, again, Harry is not a reliable narrator.)

For that matter, neither is Morgan, especially in a mash note.

Hub Cat
Aug 3, 2011

Trunk Lover

I wasn't trying to poo poo on the story there(although I don't like it), just talking about Morgan.

I don't see how the story contradicts Dresden's pov, Morgan's "testing" is Dresden's "being an rear end in a top hat to me", it just means he was secretly doing it for different reasons the whole time.
But okay we think Morgan hates Dresden because he thought he was a warlock who killed his friend(I thought Justin and Morgan were friends or at least some Warden connection? Also duty to protect the council even if they are being dumb) when really he was secretly testing him for his own good(and a promise to his mom? Was Morgan friends with her? Wasn't the council mad at her?) in case he was actually a different kind of bad guy is some dumb George Lucas poo poo imo.

Morgan was an rear end but he went out on his own terms doing things his way which I liked (weird sexism aside) so I don't I feel like it needed to be over examined and tied more into the overarching narrative.

Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Feb 5, 2020

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost
I mean, there’s a lot we don’t know about Harry’s family’s interaction with the Council.

Some Pinko Commie
Jun 9, 2009

CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!
Nemesis as a plot point is loving retarded and trying to tie everything prior to Titania naming it to try and make it look like its "all part of the plan" makes it look like Butcher is going to pull an Alera all over again.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

biracial bear for uncut posted:

Nemesis as a plot point is loving retarded and trying to tie everything prior to Titania naming it to try and make it look like its "all part of the plan" makes it look like Butcher is going to pull an Alera all over again.

Are ableist slurs really necessary?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

We already knew that Morgan was a complex dude who Dresden was immensely biased against. It is not really a shock that outside of Dresden's head he comes across different.

Some Pinko Commie
Jun 9, 2009

CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

jivjov posted:

Are ableist slurs really necessary?

Can you go gently caress yourself? I'm describing a work of fiction, not a person.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

biracial bear for uncut posted:

Can you go gently caress yourself? I'm describing a work of fiction, not a person.

gently caress you, talking about fictional characters isn't an excuse to use slurs.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

quote:

Is your post about a book, or is it about something that is not a book, such as one of the other posters on the forum? Think hard.

Thank y'all for using the report function. I know I'm not always responding quickly lately but I will respond as soon as I can.

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

ImpAtom posted:

We already knew that Morgan was a complex dude who Dresden was immensely biased against. It is not really a shock that outside of Dresden's head he comes across different.

Also he isn't really that different. Like even in his suicide note to his crush, where Morgan is clearly painting himself in his best light, he's admitting he really wants to kill Dresden because he can't be sure of his loyalties and that he deliberately antagonized him for years to make sure he hadn't gone full evil.

Like am I missing something because literally all of that completely tracks with how Morgan treated Dresden. The only really new info the piece introduces is that he was friends with Margaret and was tracking Malcolm and Harry before Malcolm's death.

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004
I don't like the story because if there is one thing Butcher is good at, it's sewing in hints of motivation or plot and so on, and I got absolutely none of that from his scenes with Morgan. It seems revisionist and is the first thing to make me wonder just how much of the plot Jim actually had worked out before he started ( I'm aware of what he's said in the past ).

Also with Morgan's worldview and character I have a hard time believing he'd promise Dresden's mother anything or investigate his father's death or remark that he'd wish he'd done better by Dresden- dude couldn't even apologize as he lay dying.

Also it seems like if you super swear to protect someone who's really important then letting them just wander around the country far and away from anyone with the means to protect them in a world where tracking/finding someone is so easy is uh, a bad idea.

Verdict: story dumb

Hub Cat
Aug 3, 2011

Trunk Lover

Yeah it really just doesn't seem to track with any of Morgan's actions that we've seen so far and I feel like it mostly exists to retcon Dresden's history more into the Nemesis plotline when that isn't necessary.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

biracial bear for uncut posted:

Can you go gently caress yourself? I'm describing a work of fiction, not a person.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Eat poo poo, rear end in a top hat. Talk about a work of fiction all you goddamn want, don't use slurs to do so.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Up Circle
Apr 3, 2008
I'm not going to read that but I'm glad it sounds like Butcher is going full J.K Rowling on his characters. It's funny

Some Pinko Commie
Jun 9, 2009

CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

Up Circle posted:

I'm not going to read that but I'm glad it sounds like Butcher is going full J.K Rowling on his characters. It's funny

Especially given how he treated jokes about references between the two properties.

NerdyMcNerdNerd
Aug 3, 2004
I like the concept of Nemesis but I'm going to be really annoyed if it turns into the Poochie of villains.

Some Pinko Commie
Jun 9, 2009

CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

I like the concept of Nemesis but I'm going to be really annoyed if it turns into the Poochie of villains.

You should read the last series where Butcher did that (Alera).

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:

I don't like the story because if there is one thing Butcher is good at, it's sewing in hints of motivation or plot and so on, and I got absolutely none of that from his scenes with Morgan. It seems revisionist and is the first thing to make me wonder just how much of the plot Jim actually had worked out before he started ( I'm aware of what he's said in the past ).

Also with Morgan's worldview and character I have a hard time believing he'd promise Dresden's mother anything or investigate his father's death or remark that he'd wish he'd done better by Dresden- dude couldn't even apologize as he lay dying.

Also it seems like if you super swear to protect someone who's really important then letting them just wander around the country far and away from anyone with the means to protect them in a world where tracking/finding someone is so easy is uh, a bad idea.

Verdict: story dumb

I'm not sure what you mean with your third sentence. Morgan states Harry has disappeared "Magically, physically, bureaucratically" which presumably took tracking/finding off the table. Up to this point, the only eyes we've seen Morgan through have been Harry's. So, we wouldn't have any idea of what he's like when he's not around Harry. He might have had a friendly relationship with Margaret. However, Morgan lost track of Harry and when Harry came back, Morgan had serious (if presumably unfounded) fears that Harry would be the Wizard Anti-Christ. Morgan put at least some of that away after Dead Beat, but thing seems to be that there's really no way to be sure of whether somebody has been "Nemesised" or not. This diary entry seem like it takes place shortly before Morgan seeks out Harry's help in Turn Coat. Plus, it's not like we can believe Morgan himself in uncompromised. How many times did he have to read/sign documents produced by Evil Ink Dude?

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Hub Cat
Aug 3, 2011

Trunk Lover

Everyone posted:

I'm not sure what you mean with your third sentence. Morgan states Harry has disappeared "Magically, physically, bureaucratically" which presumably took tracking/finding off the table. Up to this point, the only eyes we've seen Morgan through have been Harry's. So, we wouldn't have any idea of what he's like when he's not around Harry. He might have had a friendly relationship with Margaret. However, Morgan lost track of Harry and when Harry came back, Morgan had serious (if presumably unfounded) fears that Harry would be the Wizard Anti-Christ. Morgan put at least some of that away after Dead Beat, but thing seems to be that there's really no way to be sure of whether somebody has been "Nemesised" or not. This diary entry seem like it takes place shortly before Morgan seeks out Harry's help in Turn Coat. Plus, it's not like we can believe Morgan himself in uncompromised. How many times did he have to read/sign documents produced by Evil Ink Dude?

Edit: Actually they probably mean Malcolm and Harry travelling around the country doing magic shows with no sort of protection apparently until Malcolm dies and Harry gets disappeared. (Margaret asking Morgan to protect Harry implies an active threat and we know she had powerful enemies)

Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 6, 2020

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