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moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

tuyop posted:

Thanks to you and Eric for the advice. I’ll keep on keeping on, and I understand to be obsequious and cheerful when dealing with lower management. They’re a lot like potentially upset parents!

And yeah, a few months ago there were some posts from those tutor mills for like, $17/hour. I’m on the grid here for like 80k a year so that just didn’t seem reasonable at the time, but those postings haven’t opened up since and I have learned my lesson.

I did go look at my tutor listings and updated those as well, saw a couple of technical problems that might explain the lack of work (time zone was wrong in one, another deactivated my account for some reason) so hopefully that works out. I have a feeling the economy is kind of strangling the tutoring market here as well though.

Thanks again. Hopefully I can get some temp work or labour jobs to keep the lights on soon.
Move into the test prep space if you can learn the material. Tutor pay is ridiculous in test prep.

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tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

moana posted:

Move into the test prep space if you can learn the material. Tutor pay is ridiculous in test prep.

Test prep isn’t as much of a thing in Canada as it is in the states. Most of my past tutees at the high school level have been aiming for positive standardized results, but below that it’s not really on their radar. Kind of unfortunate for the job thing but I’m also glad we don’t have the culture of constant high stakes testing yet. It is good advice otherwise though, thanks.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
I lived in Canada and skyped all my US students, today I Skype my London students (who are in private American schools). If you can learn the material and get a foothold in any major city, you can charge unreasonable amounts of money in very little time.

MetaJew
Apr 14, 2006
Gather round, one and all, and thrill to my turgid tales of underwhelming misadventure!

Dumb Lowtax posted:

I just showed her these responses, and she said that her resume actually is full of MORE keyword stacking in a white invisible font :lol:

Honestly though, SMART

i might do the same right now to mine. Clearly the places I'm applying to might be susceptible to it.

I just submitted to Activision and their website ate my entire job application four times, making me start over from page ONE each time, because it incorrectly scanned words from my resume PDF into web forms that can't be changed once they're set for some galaxy-brained reason.

They're clearly already automatically scanning things out of my PDF so chances are they're doing this keyword stacking poo poo too, so white text would work on them.

Won't all of those keywords show up if you ever highlight or pull the cursor across the PDF? I want to see an example.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Be careful with stacking keywords that way. Some scanners are supposed to be able to detect it and some people cut candidates if they see it on the processed PDF.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Suicide Watch posted:

Any guidance on the best time to schedule a screening call? I don't want to schedule one for tomorrow as it feels too soon but would Tuesday be too far away?

The earlier you are in their process the better chance you got. I'm really excited to talk about this and can be free tomorrow works.


I also really like calendly and I think they have a free tier. Just set up your outlook/gmail/whatever calendar to block times you cant meet and it'll show them what's free based on rule you set.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

moana posted:

I lived in Canada and skyped all my US students, today I Skype my London students (who are in private American schools). If you can learn the material and get a foothold in any major city, you can charge unreasonable amounts of money in very little time.

I’ll look into this, thanks!

Carotid
Dec 18, 2008

We're all doing it

Xguard86 posted:

Be careful with stacking keywords that way. Some scanners are supposed to be able to detect it and some people cut candidates if they see it on the processed PDF.

I've also heard this and discourage my clients from using this practice. It looks really sneaky and casts a bad light on your integrity if they detect it. Much safer and more effective to incorporate relevant buzzwords (without going overboard) into the content of your resume.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
Expert strategy: don’t buzzwordize your resume at all, and enjoy not having to work for the kind of helltopia companies that auto-scan resumes for buzzwords before any human sees them.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Dumb Lowtax posted:

I just showed her these responses, and she said that her resume actually is full of MORE keyword stacking in a white invisible font :lol:

Honestly though, SMART

i might do the same right now to mine. Clearly the places I'm applying to might be susceptible to it.

I just submitted to Activision and their website ate my entire job application four times, making me start over from page ONE each time, because it incorrectly scanned words from my resume PDF into web forms that can't be changed once they're set for some galaxy-brained reason.

They're clearly already automatically scanning things out of my PDF so chances are they're doing this keyword stacking poo poo too, so white text would work on them.
The companies that do this poo poo also auto-format your resume into a .txt file, so the white invisibleness will get translated to plain text. You'll pass the first round, but piss off the person who actually does the interview.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Eric the Mauve posted:

Expert strategy: don’t buzzwordize your resume at all, and enjoy not having to work for the kind of helltopia companies that auto-scan resumes for buzzwords before any human sees them.

:hmmyes:

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Eric the Mauve posted:

Expert strategy: don’t buzzwordize your resume at all, and enjoy not having to work for the kind of helltopia companies that auto-scan resumes for buzzwords before any human sees them.

I'm sure this is easy to follow advice if you live in or around a major city and work in a field that has job listings oozing from every orifice.

Unrelated to that, I finally got a bit of movement after three months of job searching! I'm doing a phone interview next week, and I'm trying to keep my expectations low. Just feels good to know that at least one of my applications has been read by an actual human being.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
you should live in a place with jobs and also work in a field with jobs

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Baronash posted:

I'm sure this is easy to follow advice if you live in or around a major city and work in a field that has job listings oozing from every orifice.

Unrelated to that, I finally got a bit of movement after three months of job searching! I'm doing a phone interview next week, and I'm trying to keep my expectations low. Just feels good to know that at least one of my applications has been read by an actual human being.

Its still the right advice if for the wrong reason. Your resume should be understandable to a layperson. At most companies, people not in your field (Recruiter, other HR, managers, etc.) will be looking at it and discussing it. Those people may be gatekeepers to the people you actually want to talk to.

Carotid
Dec 18, 2008

We're all doing it
"Buzzwords" can depend on the field for sure. I work with a lot of educators, social workers, and counselors, so if they specialize in specific interventions/curricula, or are applying to sites with specific orientations (ie a harm reduction substance use treatment program), I expect them to use the lingo if they have experience with it.

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

Carotid posted:

"Buzzwords" can depend on the field for sure. I work with a lot of educators, social workers, and counselors, so if they specialize in specific interventions/curricula, or are applying to sites with specific orientations (ie a harm reduction substance use treatment program), I expect them to use the lingo if they have experience with it.

Using limited jargon like "I specialize in Montessori and English as a Second Language (ESOL) education" because it succinctly creates an image in a persons mind is probably the right choice. As a lay person to the education system, I can tell those are specific techniques that they know, even if I don't fully understand what that means in day-to-day practice.

You should not say: "Enhancing children's futures through the application of paradigm changing teaching techniques such as constructivist model education and TESOL"

Those two quotes mean the same and both use jargon but only one is understandable by Paul the HR drone. Acronyms are defined and common language names are used for teaching methods.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Feb 1, 2020

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

CarForumPoster posted:

Using limited jargon like "I specialize in Montessori and English as a Second Language (ESOL) education" because it succinctly creates an image in a persons mind is probably the right choice. As a lay person to the education system, I can tell those are specific techniques that they know, even if I don't fully understand what that means in day-to-day practice.

You should not say: "Enhancing children's futures through the application of paradigm changing teaching techniques such as constructivist model education and TESOL"

Those two quotes mean the same and both use jargon but only one is understandable by Paul the HR drone. Acronyms are defined and common language names are used for teaching methods.

Actual line from my resume:

quote:

Implemented IPP programming in Science and Social Studies for 16 students (moderate cognitive delays, behavioural issues, adaptations for students with FASD, differentiated guided reading instruction).

Too jargony?

Carotid
Dec 18, 2008

We're all doing it
^^^^ I'm okay with that bullet point, though it's not really telling me something about you that stands out. It's sort of establishing a baseline to me and could be appropriate for signalling to the hiring manager that you fit the population/methodology at their site.

CarForumPoster posted:

Using limited jargon like "I specialize in Montessori and English as a Second Language (ESOL) education" because it succinctly creates an image in a persons mind is probably the right choice. As a lay person to the education system, I can tell those are specific techniques that they know, even if I don't fully understand what that means in day-to-day practice.

You should not say: "Enhancing children's futures through the application of paradigm changing teaching techniques such as constructivist model education and TESOL"

Those two quotes mean the same and both use jargon but only one is understandable by Paul the HR drone. Acronyms are defined and common language names are used for teaching methods.

Agreed. Readability should never be sacrificed--even if I'm not familiar with the methodology, I should always have a clear understanding of what general action you were taking in the bullet point.

Carotid fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Feb 1, 2020

CarForumPoster
Jun 26, 2013

⚡POWER⚡

tuyop posted:

Actual line from my resume:

quote:

quote: Implemented IPP programming in Science and Social Studies for 16 students (moderate cognitive delays, behavioural issues, adaptations for students with FASD, differentiated guided reading instruction).

Too jargony?

IDK what IPP programming is
IDK what FASD is
I can't tell why differentiated guided reading instruction is important from the context of that bullet point

After googling those things I might say something like:

-Created individualized program plans (IPP) in science and social studies for 16 students with guided reading instructions.
-These IPPs improved educational outcomes [how measured?] for children with cognitive delays, behavioral issues and Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD).
-[List academics and certs for working with special needs kids]

Note: If any of those details aren't important, remove them. Is a differentiated guided reading instruction important?

IMO I'd emphasize the compassion I had for students like this as much as my qualifications. Jobs like this you can write a passionate cover letter for and it seem genuine. You cant do that for CS Grad turned JS/Python API gluer jobs.

CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Feb 1, 2020

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
Dude emailed me saying there's not a lot of detail on the projects I worked on on my resume.


Yeah dude, that's what a resume is. I can't go into detail because it's one page and I've been told numerous times to make it the way it is. If you want detail, that's what an interview is for.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

skooma512 posted:

Dude emailed me saying there's not a lot of detail on the projects I worked on on my resume.


Yeah dude, that's what a resume is. I can't go into detail because it's one page and I've been told numerous times to make it the way it is. If you want detail, that's what an interview is for.

Is it clear what the projects are? You don't want to go into low-level detail but it should be clear what a project was, what your role was, and what accomplishments you/the project had. If you're finding it hard to get that into a 1 page resume, 2 page resumes are not a bad thing if the content demands it. It's much better to do a 2 page resume than have to cut stuff out to leave your resume confusing or incomplete. I don't know if that's the case here but its worth taking a re-look at your resume and making sure you're not leaving stuff out.

Suicide Watch
Sep 8, 2009
Jargon should be okay if it’s on the job description though right?

Also what should be done about soft skills? I see Jobscan.co telling me my resume score on ATS platforms can be influenced by my mention of those. I’ve always ascribed to presenting these skills in resume bullets but what if I don’t get to a human reader in the first place?

Business
Feb 6, 2007

Would you wear a suit to a 30 min on campus interview thing? I guess it's in consulting technically but not like a casework type interview or whatever, they are looking for tech people. I have a nice suit it just seems weird to wear one for a tech related thing but it would be weird NOT to for a 'consulting' type position

Omne
Jul 12, 2003

Orangedude Forever

Better to dress up than down.

I have an interview this morning. Who schedules an interview the morning after the Super Bowl....that's just mean.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Suicide Watch posted:

Jargon should be okay if it’s on the job description though right?

Also what should be done about soft skills? I see Jobscan.co telling me my resume score on ATS platforms can be influenced by my mention of those. I’ve always ascribed to presenting these skills in resume bullets but what if I don’t get to a human reader in the first place?

I think a little jargon is fine. Good bullet points for softskills are presentations, customer-facing activities, things like that. If you are past the "entry level" part of your career soft skills should be demonstrated by accomplishments, generally. This doesn't apply to certain things like speaking multiple languages, but I don't think those are usually considered softskills.

Business posted:

Would you wear a suit to a 30 min on campus interview thing? I guess it's in consulting technically but not like a casework type interview or whatever, they are looking for tech people. I have a nice suit it just seems weird to wear one for a tech related thing but it would be weird NOT to for a 'consulting' type position

For consulting gigs I'd say generally you want a suit, but for campus stuff it sorta depends. I'd definitely do a nice shirt and a tie, your call on a jacket. I don't think its particularly weird either way.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
if you are at on campus recruiting for my consulting firm in a suit it will work in your favor. if you don't wear one it's not a show stopper but it will raise questions.

edit: i do a fair amount of on campus recruiting

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Eric the Mauve posted:

Nah, you're not cursed, it's standard. Retail managers don't like hiring people who are between jobs in professional fields, because they usually aren't good at accepting the kind of pervasive casual humiliation that is the life of a retail drone, they usually bounce out after a month or two, and if these things turn out not to be true then they might become a threat to the manager's own position.

Teacher is probably especially bad in this case, because when you say 'teacher' to a lot of retail managers, what they hear is 'person who will chafe against my micromanagement.' I'd do everything possible to de-emphasize the word 'teacher' in my interactions with these people if I were you.

It sucks, but there's nothing you can do but carpetbomb applications (frustrating and horribly time consuming as that is) and try your best to act ultra upbeat and positive when talking to people.
I have been delighting in this since last year when I quit my last job; per my username, I am, well, overqualified for ... basically every job I have seen posted the whole time I have been searching. You know you are in trouble when the temp agencies stop returning your calls.

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop
If it's for a tech field do not dress up for the interview past business casual, unless you're not American. You'll come off as out of touch with the community.

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop
For context: The other day I went to an on-campus recruiting meeting (major national lab, compsci job) that sounded more like a presentation for interested people; I didn't even expect to be one-on-one. It was. I showed up to the room and it was like a glass bowl with the previous candidate already inside, in a full suit and tie. I gave a little wave to them through the glass and waited my turn. I was dressed in a button down shirt and jacket. I did fine, because I'm qualified and had enough relevant questions for the interviewer to pass all the time with. During the interview he made a point to mention that company culture is to show up in shorts and t shirt all summer long.

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 5, 2020

bee
Dec 17, 2008


Do you often sing or whistle just for fun?
So this employer has taken an interesting approach to finding new staff...

Check out this job on SEEK: Portable Toilet Service Person from A Class Hire - https://www.seek.com.au/job/40895232

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Dumb Lowtax posted:

For context: The other day I went to an on-campus recruiting meeting (major national lab, compsci job) that sounded more like a presentation for interested people; I didn't even expect to be one-on-one. It was. I showed up to the room and it was like a glass bowl with the previous candidate already inside, in a full suit and tie. I gave a little wave to them through the glass and waited my turn. I was dressed in a button down shirt and jacket. I did fine, because I'm qualified and had enough relevant questions for the interviewer to pass all the time with. During the interview he made a point to mention that company culture is to show up in shorts and t shirt all summer long.

our company culture is also show up in whatever u want unless you are face to face with a client

but we are also looking for people who can think their way through a problem without much information (eg: what should i wear to an interview?) and maybe for instance look at the level of formality of everyone's headshots on our website and emuate that

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


So after a FULL loving YEAR of applying to tons of jobs in a brand new to me city with zero contacts whatsoever, I finally contacted an old reference from my home state and turns out he's hiring for exactly what I'm trying to do. Two phone calls with him later and I have an offer letter. I guess I'm moving back across the country :shrug:

This is a little reminder to everyone that who you know is way more important than anything else. This job hunt has been the most painfully depressing year of my life, and the very minute I decide to give up with it and talk to an acquaintance I see results. I'm sorry to anyone else in the position I was in, but seriously make friends.

Now I have to figure out what to do with this offer letter. The pay rate is ~10% above glassdoor's reported average for the level I'm being hired at. He emailed the letter right after my second phonecall. Do I email him back asking to talk on the phone? Do I counteroffer with a higher salary? My initial guess for starting salary if I was forced to say would've been 13% higher than what he offered in the letter, so should I just counter with that? I mean, what he's offering is already a little above what I decided would be the floor for what I could make me move back home (which was around glassdoor's estimate for the position), and he's my future boss, but I feel foolish not negotiating somewhat. Do I do it?? How?

e- forgot there was a negotiations thread. currently reading that. I'm pretty sure dik hz has posted things there recently that are directly applicable to my sitch

Hooplah fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Feb 5, 2020

bee
Dec 17, 2008


Do you often sing or whistle just for fun?
I just tweaked my resume a bit more, would anyone mind having giving me a bit of feedback on it please?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v2zdV6Jot_V1CafijemV5ghyOwJJk2sT/view?usp=sharing

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

bee posted:

I just tweaked my resume a bit more, would anyone mind having giving me a bit of feedback on it please?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v2zdV6Jot_V1CafijemV5ghyOwJJk2sT/view?usp=sharing

I know HR resumes tend to be longer, but this seems excessive at 3 pages of full blocked text.

Your experience is just explaining the roles, not really what you accomplished. The roles themselves are not as self evident as other examples we've seen so you probably need to explain them somewhat, but I think you went too far.

You can probably condense everything from 2013 and before as "Additional experience" and not have details. No one really cares about the details about your call center job from 17 years ago.

You have a lot of very short jobs in a row, be ready to have to explain that. Obviously it is what it is, but it's going to jump out at potential employers.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

bee posted:

I just tweaked my resume a bit more, would anyone mind having giving me a bit of feedback on it please?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v2zdV6Jot_V1CafijemV5ghyOwJJk2sT/view?usp=sharing
tldr

Your current resume tells what your roles were and not how you excelled in your roles. Also, if you're going to do mega blocks of text, use a serif font. But, don't do mega blocks of text. Get your resume down to 1 or 1.5 pages, because nobody's going to withhold judgment until they've waded through your dissertation of a resume. They'll scan the first block or two and trash it.

Ditch the summary and your call center jobs.

Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Feb 7, 2020

RC Cola
Aug 1, 2011

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

Hooplah posted:

So after a FULL loving YEAR of applying to tons of jobs in a brand new to me city with zero contacts whatsoever, I finally contacted an old reference from my home state and turns out he's hiring for exactly what I'm trying to do. Two phone calls with him later and I have an offer letter. I guess I'm moving back across the country :shrug:

This is a little reminder to everyone that who you know is way more important than anything else. This job hunt has been the most painfully depressing year of my life, and the very minute I decide to give up with it and talk to an acquaintance I see results. I'm sorry to anyone else in the position I was in, but seriously make friends.

Now I have to figure out what to do with this offer letter. The pay rate is ~10% above glassdoor's reported average for the level I'm being hired at. He emailed the letter right after my second phonecall. Do I email him back asking to talk on the phone? Do I counteroffer with a higher salary? My initial guess for starting salary if I was forced to say would've been 13% higher than what he offered in the letter, so should I just counter with that? I mean, what he's offering is already a little above what I decided would be the floor for what I could make me move back home (which was around glassdoor's estimate for the position), and he's my future boss, but I feel foolish not negotiating somewhat. Do I do it?? How?

e- forgot there was a negotiations thread. currently reading that. I'm pretty sure dik hz has posted things there recently that are directly applicable to my sitch
Can you tell me more about this negotiation thread?

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531

Read the op and maybe the last 10-20 pages of that thread if you like having money and want to get more of it faster

Happy Thread
Jul 10, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Plaster Town Cop

Hooplah posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531

Read the op and maybe the last 10-20 pages of that thread if you like having money and want to get more of it faster

Click on the spreadsheet too, it is stunning how much increased total income over time this thread accounts for among goons

Hooplah
Jul 15, 2006


Dumb Lowtax posted:

Click on the spreadsheet too, it is stunning how much increased total income over time this thread accounts for among goons

I think this short story from muscular typist is a good illustration of the loving importance of the thread title at least. Instead of flinching and saying the number he knew would be a good bet he forced them to show their hand and instantly made 8k/yr plus a 10k signing bonus. never say a number jfc

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Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Hooplah posted:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531

Read the op and maybe the last 10-20 pages of that thread if you like having money and want to get more of it faster
Seriously. You can make $10k/year more for the rest of your professional career by reading that thread.

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