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sbaldrick posted:Macy's is hosed...as is t-shirt vendor WWE WWE is selling out shows, just signed a deal with Fox and has their own streaming platform... why are they in trouble again? The product has been dogshit for years, but the financials are (  ) bulletproof.
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Feb 6, 2020 01:21
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Shrecknet posted:WWE is selling out shows, just signed a deal with Fox and has their own streaming platform... why are they in trouble again? The product has been dogshit for years, but the financials are ( Stock Prices are on some level a popularity contest. At the end of the day Vince is clearly rolling in that Saudi money, so much so he is still doing those shows even though a lot of fans have a huge problem with them.
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Feb 6, 2020 01:26
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About a week ago, two high level executives at WWE left the company under undisclosed circumcision. The stock prices went tumbling immediately after the news broke.
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Feb 6, 2020 01:32
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Detective No. 27 posted:About a week ago, two high level executives at WWE left the company under undisclosed circumcision. The stock prices went tumbling immediately after the news broke. Aggressive HR policy but hey
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Feb 6, 2020 01:36
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That's a hell of an autocorrect.
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Feb 6, 2020 01:47
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i do not like this severance package
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Feb 6, 2020 01:49
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I wouldn't be surprised if the WWE deal was related to the XFL. A part of me feels like Vince will be smarter the second time around, as a shameless cash in that came too late, but it's Vince so he'll probably lose a good deal on it. I also think the Greatest Royal Rumble is not the sign of a financially stable enterprise.
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Feb 6, 2020 01:49
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Shrecknet posted:WWE is selling out shows, just signed a deal with Fox and has their own streaming platform... why are they in trouble again? The product has been dogshit for years, but the financials are ( They aren't selling out shows, and their streaming platform is barely above its breakeven for its cost (or under it based on the free trial members) Either way when you fire the 2 people responsible for your giant TV deals and your international deal (that they may not get paid for) it tanks your stock 30 percent. Also they have more people under contact the WWF and WCW did at the height of the business, no counting the non tv wrestlers under contact.
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Feb 6, 2020 02:37
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Shrecknet posted:WWE is selling out shows, just signed a deal with Fox and has their own streaming platform... why are they in trouble again? The product has been dogshit for years, but the financials are ( Where are you pulling that from? WWE is tarping off big sections of arenas visible in their broadcasts. Live show attendance is way down by their own admission, and merch sales are starting to drop too. The only thing in their financials that is bulletproof is their TV deals. Fourth quarter and full year 2019 financials are out tomorrow, but as of Q3: WWE posted:Revenues were $186.3 million as compared to $188.4 million from the prior year quarter as increased revenue in the Media segment, driven by the monetization of core content, was more than offset by decreased sales of live event tickets and merchandise. quote:Live Events quote:Consumer Products They're not in 'poo poo's on fire' mode yet, but they definitely 'improved to a decline' last quarter and it will be interesting to see how that continues this quarter. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 02:47
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the WWE deal was related to the XFL. A part of me feels like Vince will be smarter the second time around, as a shameless cash in that came too late, but it's Vince so he'll probably lose a good deal on it. Vince's M.O. is desperately trying to break out of the wrestling business into "respectable" entertainment, and the more he fails the more desperate he gets. XFL 2 is a horrible idea and it's already looking like a massive failure.
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Feb 6, 2020 03:57
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Golbez posted:So we're now a month into 2020; how's Fry's doing? I bought a six pack at the Tempe Frys an hour ago. Still going strong baby.
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Feb 6, 2020 06:20
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Vince's M.O. is desperately trying to break out of the wrestling business into "respectable" entertainment, and the more he fails the more desperate he gets. XFL 2 is a horrible idea and it's already looking like a massive failure. Yeah, and Vince sold 3.2m shares of his personal stock in WWE to fund it. 
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Feb 6, 2020 06:49
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I was never allowed to watch wrestling as a kid, and was told it was for stupid people. I was told the same thing about the Simpsons. More recently it seems like something I might be interested in checking out, but there's so many acronyms and so much continuity that the prospect is extremely daunting. Edit: I don't want to support Trump either.
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Feb 6, 2020 06:51
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I suggest checking out All Elite Wrestling. It's a newer promotion that's got TV time these days, and also does a weekly show on youtube so the cost of entry is nothing. Way better writing than anything WWE is putting out right now as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCFN4JkGP_bVhAdBsoV9xftA
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Feb 6, 2020 06:54
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Beachcomber posted:I was never allowed to watch wrestling as a kid, and was told it was for stupid people. I was told the same thing about the Simpsons. I guarantee your area has a local wrestling scene and it's fun and hilarious and you should go to a show sometime. Hell, I went to a Defy event a couple years back and X-Pac was in a match. poo poo owns.
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Feb 6, 2020 06:58
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Beachcomber posted:I was never allowed to watch wrestling as a kid, and was told it was for stupid people. I was told the same thing about the Simpsons. You should check out All Elite Wrestling, it's a relatively new wrestling company that started up last year and is already putting out a better product than WWE has in years. It doesn't have decades worth of continuity and it puts a lot of its stuff on YouTube so getting caught up on everyone and everything is very easy. Liquid Communism posted:I suggest checking out All Elite Wrestling. It's a newer promotion that's got TV time these days, and also does a weekly show on youtube so the cost of entry is nothing. Way better writing than anything WWE is putting out right now as well. This guy gets it.
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Feb 6, 2020 06:59
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Beachcomber posted:I was never allowed to watch wrestling as a kid, and was told it was for stupid people. I was told the same thing about the Simpsons. The Rowdy Ringsports people will be glad to sort you out on what's what, but the short of it right now is that you should put any dollars you want to spend on wrestling toward anything but WWE, which among any number of other countless crimes and things that should be crimes, accepted a truckload of Saudi oil money in exchange for throwing on Saudi Arabia shows, overlooking the Khashoggi murder, let alone the country's absolutely grotesque human rights record. Women wrestlers weren't allowed to appear because Saudi Arabia.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:42
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Wrestling is just classic dinner and a show that people have enjoyed for thousands of years. Enjoy two people throwing fake punches due to a great dramatic storyline as you guzzle hotdogs.
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Feb 6, 2020 08:43
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The Rowdy Ringsports people will be glad to sort you out on what's what, but the short of it right now is that you should put any dollars you want to spend on wrestling toward anything but WWE, which among any number of other countless crimes and things that should be crimes, accepted a truckload of Saudi oil money in exchange for throwing on Saudi Arabia shows, overlooking the Khashoggi murder, let alone the country's absolutely grotesque human rights record. Women wrestlers weren't allowed to appear because Saudi Arabia. They were allowed to appear at the last Saudi event. In full-body suits, and immediately rushed out of the venue after their match. Several people who work for WWE can't attend those shows because they would potentially be black-bagged, such as Sami Zayn. He's Canadian, but a second-generation Syrian immigrant and fundraises extensively for the Syrian American Medical Society Foundation, who are busy providing mobile medical service in Syria.
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Feb 6, 2020 09:28
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Wondering if MMA eating into the pro wrestling market segment is a thing.RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I wouldn't be surprised if the WWE deal was related to the XFL. A part of me feels like Vince will be smarter the second time around, as a shameless cash in that came too late, but it's Vince so he'll probably lose a good deal on it. I think it's dumber than the first time around. The first time had a bunch of gimmicky stuff that ultimately didn't work out, but "we improved the rules a bit" is a pretty weak hook, and it's not going to offset their inability to attract good talent with a $55k/yr salary. Meanwhile on the obituary feed, organic grocer Earth Fare is closing all 50 stores. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 12:29
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Vince's M.O. is desperately trying to break out of the wrestling business into "respectable" entertainment, and the more he fails the more desperate he gets. This is spot-on. Vince was born dirt-poor in the Carolinas and never knew his dad, Vince Sr. He developed a hatred for southern people (both Jim Ross and Jim Cornette have often mentioned this), and he met his father later who "sold" him the WWWF New York territory during the days when wrestling was all about regional territories. By "sold", I mean that his father gifted it to him and let him pay him back with profits from the largest and most prestigious territory in the country based out of the largest city in the US. He loves to talk up that "self made man" crap, but talk about starting life on third base. He became the top dog in wrestling due as much to the gently caress-ups of his competition and the overall huge contraction of the business as anything else, and he only got in it because of accident of birth. He just wanted to be rich and powerful and he had a golden opportunity to do so, but Hussein is right in that he's always been embarrassed by it and wants to get into something "respectable" instead. That's one of the reasons that he literally forbids anyone in his company to call it "wrestling" - because he's embarrassed - and makes them call it "sports entertainment". We've all heard of that huge event every spring, "Sports Entertainmania", of course, where sports entertainers in a sports entertainment ring use sports entertainment holds and throws to win a sports entertainment match. Vince is one of many on my "can't wait to watch him die" list, but pricks like him live forever. I was a huge wrestling fan as a kid and there is just something so appalling about someone who is the #1 figure in his industry but absolutely hates what made him a billionaire. When it's in an industry where so many guys have suffered so much pain, injury and tedious travel in order to make him what he is, it's just insulting.
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Feb 6, 2020 16:08
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OneEightHundred posted:Wondering if MMA eating into the pro wrestling market segment is a thing. I believe this is absolutely a thing. Besides WWE getting Ronda Rousey and giving her a massive push, throughout last year there was definitely a noticeable sort of "we have MMA people now look how MMA-like wrestling can be!" thing going on in the WWE. Plus they got some solid competition last year in the form of AEW which had some absolutely fuckin' great PPVs and a great mix of talented folks.
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Feb 6, 2020 16:14
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^WWE's been slowly adding more MMA fighters to the roster. Last year, they signed Caine Velasquez, just so they could habe him feud with Brock Lesnar. (Velasquez won in Brock's first UFC fight over a decade ago.)JustJeff88 posted:This is spot-on. Vince was born dirt-poor in the Carolinas and never knew his dad, Vince Sr. He developed a hatred for southern people (both Jim Ross and Jim Cornette have often mentioned this), and he met his father later who "sold" him the WWWF New York territory during the days when wrestling was all about regional territories. By "sold", I mean that his father gifted it to him and let him pay him back with profits from the largest and most prestigious territory in the country based out of the largest city in the US. He loves to talk up that "self made man" crap, but talk about starting life on third base. If anyone wants to know how big Vince's ego is, the man once wrestled God and won. Detective No. 27 fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Feb 6, 2020 |
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Feb 6, 2020 16:17
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Neo Rasa posted:I believe this is absolutely a thing. Besides WWE getting Ronda Rousey and giving her a massive push, throughout last year there was definitely a noticeable sort of "we have MMA people now look how MMA-like wrestling can be!" thing going on in the WWE. Plus they got some solid competition last year in the form of AEW which had some absolutely fuckin' great PPVs and a great mix of talented folks. I'm reminded of the time the undertaker subbed a guy with a gogoplata lmfao
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Feb 6, 2020 16:36
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poo poo POST MALONE posted:I'm reminded of the time the undertaker subbed a guy with a gogoplata lmfao lmao yessss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjG3hGUAWWM Detective No. 27 posted:If anyone wants to know how big Vince's ego is, the man once wrestled God and won. I didn't know Jack Kirby wrestled.
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Feb 6, 2020 16:41
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Detective No. 27 posted:^WWE's been slowly adding more MMA fighters to the roster. Last year, they signed Caine Velasquez, just so they could habe him feud with Brock Lesnar. (Velasquez won in Brock's first UFC fight over a decade ago.) God still has one of the best intros I have ever seen.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:18
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JustJeff88 posted:That's one of the reasons that he literally forbids anyone in his company to call it "wrestling" - because he's embarrassed - and makes them call it "sports entertainment". We've all heard of that huge event every spring, "Sports Entertainmania", of course, where sports entertainers in a sports entertainment ring use sports entertainment holds and throws to win a sports entertainment match. I'm sure that's not completely accurate though.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:26
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For someone who hates wrestling so much and wants to be respectable, his willingness to debase himself for it is amazing. This is the same guy who wanted to turn his daughter's pregnancy into an incest subplot and had to be shut down by her refusal to participate.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:36
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I thought vince mcmahom died in a car wreck
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Feb 6, 2020 19:42
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I thought vince mcmahom died in a car wreck You all bought it. Even his immediate family bought it. When did wrestling start having mandatory leapfrog performances? This bullshit of them running and jumping over/sliding under each other no less than four times before doing something? Even the free AEW matches on youtube have this unconvincing garbage. No wonder people aren't watching anymore. I came to watch people pretend to hit each other, not do team calisthenics.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:50
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Mister Facetious posted:You all bought it. In America? I think that's something that started in indie wrestling during the 2000s.
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Feb 6, 2020 19:56
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OneEightHundred posted:AFAIK the "sports entertainment" and "superstars" and all that stuff was a rebranding exercise when it was becoming increasingly clear that pretending that it was all real (as they did throughout at least the early 90's) wasn't going to work. So, Wrestlemania's name came from a period where they were trying to legitimize it as wrestling, whereas "sports entertainment" came from a period where they had switched to trying to legitimize it as theater. I'm sure that there is some truth to this, but my understanding that they moved away from "wrestling" to make it more attractive to shareholders around the time that the company went public. Back in the territory days that lasted decades, it was a closed and secretive business and nobody would have dreamed of letting rich corporate wankers get involved. I'm also sure that Vince's distaste for wrestling itself factored into this.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:27
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OneEightHundred posted:AFAIK the "sports entertainment" and "superstars" and all that stuff was a rebranding exercise when it was becoming increasingly clear that pretending that it was all real (as they did throughout at least the early 90's) wasn't going to work. So, Wrestlemania's name came from a period where they were trying to legitimize it as wrestling, whereas "sports entertainment" came from a period where they had switched to trying to legitimize it as theater. McMahon primarily promoted the term 'sports entertainment' to avoid certain regulations and fees from the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board when the WWE (then WWF) was being promoted as 'Wrestling' (and therefore subject to the regulations). Basically, a "gently caress regulation!" move.
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Feb 7, 2020 02:08
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Horseshoe theory posted:McMahon primarily promoted the term 'sports entertainment' to avoid certain regulations and fees from the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board when the WWE (then WWF) was being promoted as 'Wrestling' (and therefore subject to the regulations). Basically, a "gently caress regulation!" move.
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Feb 7, 2020 02:14
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OneEightHundred posted:AFAIK the "sports entertainment" and "superstars" and all that stuff was a rebranding exercise when it was becoming increasingly clear that pretending that it was all real (as they did throughout at least the early 90's) wasn't going to work. So, Wrestlemania's name came from a period where they were trying to legitimize it as wrestling, whereas "sports entertainment" came from a period where they had switched to trying to legitimize it as theater. But not -too- legit, so all the workers who are independent contractors required to cover their own travel and food to turn up at the time and place the company requires them to work starring in a television show can't get SAG-AFTRA representation. One of their headliners, Roman Reigns, got written into one of his cousin the Rock's movies to get him insurance while he fought cancer.
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Feb 7, 2020 02:17
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Horseshoe theory posted:McMahon primarily promoted the term 'sports entertainment' to avoid certain regulations and fees from the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board when the WWE (then WWF) was being promoted as 'Wrestling' (and therefore subject to the regulations). Basically, a "gently caress regulation!" move. You're right; I heard this and forgot it. Back in the late 80s early 90s he admitted to the commission that it was scripted to save money. FMguru posted:I thought it was a gambling thing - if you're promoting something as a sporting event, in a state that allows sports gambling, then you're opening yourself up to all kinds of legal trouble if it turns out the event was scripted and had a predetermined result. Interesting, but I can't confirm. Liquid Communism posted:But not -too- legit, so all the workers who are independent contractors required to cover their own travel and food to turn up at the time and place the company requires them to work starring in a television show can't get SAG-AFTRA representation. Yep. Thing is, and I heard a lawyer go into this in depth, the work that they do does not in any way resemble that of an independent contractor. Back in the territory days, the territories simply could not afford to give guys insurance, even when it was much cheaper than today, but they were literally independents who were paid per show (no-show, no-money) but could come and go at a whim and work multiple territories sequentially or simultaneously - guaranteed contracts didn't start until the mid-80s. Now, WWE can easily afford fantastic insurance for its guys, but why pay it if you don't have to? If any non-Americans are reading this, yes, you should be appalled that this is how insurance works in the US. WWE wrestlers, unlike in the old days, have to do exactly what they are told in the ring and cannot work for other promotions while with WWE or for 90 days thereafter. Legally, Vince does not have a leg to stand on in regards to the "independent contractor" bullshit, but he's so powerful nobody takes him to task. So those guys have it all... they have a job with a very high risk of serious injury in a country where health care is a total commodity, but gently caress all they can do about it because of WWE's virtual monopoly. 
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Feb 7, 2020 02:53
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Don't forget that WWE also owns the IP rights to most of the workers' ring personas. So even if they manage to leave, sit out the noncompete while being unable to work on their industry at all, and get back on the road they'll have to do it under a new character. Unlike actual independent contractors they can't just quit either. The WWE writers, at Vince's direction, also do anything in their power to make someone who asks to leave look bad in order to damage their drawing power with a competitor. Some workers have had to sit for years on contract and not getting any TV time (but still required to travel and sit in the back at shows), wasting the prime of their careers to suit Vince. The only worker that's taken WWE to court over their contracts and won is Brock Lesnar, and that is a huge part of why he now has one of the highest paying contracts in the company while working a handful of dates a year. It's also why WWE doesn't make big stars anymore, because Vince is terrified of his workers getting popular enough to quit and go make money for someone else, and not being 100% dependent on his goodwill. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 02:57
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Liquid Communism posted:Don't forget that WWE also owns the IP rights to most of the workers' ring personas. So even if they manage to leave, sit out the noncompete while being unable to work on their industry at all, and get back on the road they'll have to do it under a new character. Yep. I actively dislike Lesnar so I won't talk about him, but WWE couldn't let Cody Runnels, son of the late Virgil Runnels (a.k.a Dusty Rhodes, one of the greatest ever) use his WWE name "Cody Rhodes" when he left the promotion, so he just goes by Cody (as his brother goes by "Dustin"). They could easily change their names legally and add "Rhodes" as another middle name or some such, but they haven't and shouldn't have to. I was pleased to see that Bret Hart, my favourite as a lad, was able to hold onto his entrance theme - his real name is Bret Hart, so no issue there. He made a surprise appearance at one of the first big AEW shows and he was able to use his original music and graphics. Jack Whitehall did a brilliant job of announcing, and both the fans in attendance and I pissed ourselves when he got to "was". I don't get excited about much anymore, but I did then. The fans were so loud that you could barely hear Bret's music; I had to rewatch it a few times to be sure that it was his WWE track. JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 03:03
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Brock's non-compete was so disgustingly absurd that any judge would have thrown it out. The reason he's so highly paid now is because he's a huge star and draws money, and was able to negotiate with both Dana White and Vince while both companies were rolling in cash and led by two of the most prideful men in history who wanted their shiny toy.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:05
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Also because Vince is a carny and a schoolyard bully at heart and respects someone who stands up to him and gets away with it.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:19
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