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Is there any real issue to letting a player character be a large creature? I can't think of any off the top of my head but there's enough stuff that floats around in 4e I could be mistaken.
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Feb 6, 2020 03:23
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Moriatti posted:Is there any real issue to letting a player character be a large creature? I can't think of any off the top of my head but there's enough stuff that floats around in 4e I could be mistaken. It's a pretty big boon to a Defender at the very least, being able to be adjacent to/mark more things. Close Bursts will target more squares. Movement will be more difficult.
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Feb 6, 2020 04:00
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Moriatti posted:Is there any real issue to letting a player character be a large creature? I can't think of any off the top of my head but there's enough stuff that floats around in 4e I could be mistaken. Do you want actually large as in space or do you just want large as in powerful build? If I remember correctly I let someone play a reskinned bugbear with a "large" mechanic and that worked out fine to represent being larger while still just taking up one square on the battlemap.
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Feb 6, 2020 04:08
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I was building a Wemic, I can just use the Bugbear oversized hands but it would be fun to be very big.... Sounds like it would interact oddly with the other things I planned on giving it, so I'll probably just keep them a 1 square creature.
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Feb 6, 2020 15:56
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I'm posting in here because the dedicated Gamma World Thread is egregiously dead. I am so bored in this quarantine that I have somehow started GMing my first campaign ever? I got a couple people from my current 5e group, and a couple people from my college-days 3.5e group to agree to a Gamma World campaign. We're reskinning the thing to play a superpowers game, and they're somewhere between the Sinister Six and a bunch of Batman villains. The Alpa Mutations work, because they all got their powers from a strange accident, and Guns and Ammo are now being called Science Guns, and being On the Fritz. Session Zero was today and things look to be going well, they are looking forward to taking over Gamma City. We have a shapeshifting fungus man(the party face, infiltrator) an empathic energy vampire(kiiind of a healer, buffer/debuffer), a regenerative alien(possibly our main frontliner), and a wheeled plaguebearer(striker-type). I have all the books covered, a google sheet for character sheets, we're using a master list of all the cards, so I can just roll a die and send them to that line on THAT google sheet, even the homebrewed content for levels 11-20, on the bizarre off-chance that this thing survives that long. I also have the D&D 4e Monster Vault handy, for easily-reskinned enemies. I even got on the Wayback Machine to get the dead links to Dazed Save Ends from old thread's OP...except for the actual Gamma Heroes hack that was stored there. Any chance one of you has it, or knows how to get it? Are there any current Gamma World 4e(7e)resources that have come about since that thread went plop? I've done some cursor googling, but I don't really know where to look.
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Apr 5, 2020 11:00
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Sorry I can't help El Fideo. Your post did inspire me to order a copy of Gamma World 7e though. Unrelated: I'm curious, is there a repository of decent 4e homebrew? I'm specifically interested in systems that make ritual magic and martial practices more fun/functional.
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Apr 29, 2020 01:41
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So it looks like Roll20 has a lot of actually good stuff that could be useful for 4e. Is it mostly annoying or pretty good?
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May 21, 2020 13:25
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I've actually just discovered that Masterplan has a whole map and battle grid system built in. If only it could also be programmed with pc powers! I suppose I could build them as neutral monsters?
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May 21, 2020 14:15
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Is the Skald class any good? The idea of healing powers that allies can request on their own turn is kinda neat (and I'm admittedly mostly doing it for the goofy class feature to summon groupies), but I have to admit it just kinda seems like a worse Bard apart from getting CHA to MBAs (a feature that would be kinda worthless if they hadn't nerfed Melee Training because Essentials). This is all in the context of me kinda sandbagging for a low-optimization group by having the exceedingly bad idea to multiclass Vampire and then under the DM's interpretation run it back up to seven surges per day via Durable and a high secondary CON (mostly just so I can do some goofy RP as a Vampire Bard). Haven't played a lot of 4e since the middle of the edition's life.
gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 14:31 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 14:28
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gourdcaptain posted:Is the Skald class any good? The idea of healing powers that allies can request on their own turn is kinda neat (and I'm admittedly mostly doing it for the goofy class feature to summon groupies), but I have to admit it just kinda seems like a worse Bard apart from getting CHA to MBAs (a feature that would be kinda worthless if they hadn't nerfed Melee Training because Essentials). This is all in the context of me kinda sandbagging for a low-optimization group by having the exceedingly bad idea to multiclass Vampire and then under the DM's interpretation run it back up to seven surges per day via Durable and a high secondary CON (mostly just so I can do some goofy RP as a Vampire Bard). Haven't played a lot of 4e since the middle of the edition's life. Like any Essentials class it will generally hold up to level 10. What people typically did back in the day was use a bard feat to steal the Skald feature. Other people using their actions to heal frees you up to perform minor action spam of whatever devious variety you come up with, as bards can tap into a lot of these. To make Skald worth it you have to plug its melee basics into something else. Vampire MC is in general amazingly bad.
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May 21, 2020 14:47
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Vampire MC is in general amazingly bad. Oh, yeah, no kidding. Me going with it at this point is a combination of CBLoader having a typo'd version that looks significantly less bad in the summary I ran across initially and was the only math I thought about when submitting the build and sheer stubbornness rather than coming up with a new character concept.
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May 21, 2020 14:52
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:I've actually just discovered that Masterplan has a whole map and battle grid system built in. If only it could also be programmed with pc powers! I suppose I could build them as neutral monsters?
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May 21, 2020 14:53
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It's weird, Essentials classes veer sharply between 'extraordinarly conservative game design' and 'oooh let's try this weird thing and see if it works." Skald and Berserker are two of my faves, and solidly in the latter category. Unless your other players are excessively optimized, almost anything can work out just fine, especially at lower levels. Except for Bladesinger, which is trash.
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May 21, 2020 15:10
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dwarf74 posted:So it looks like Roll20 has a lot of actually good stuff that could be useful for 4e. Is it mostly annoying or pretty good? I’m currently teaching a new group to play 4e via roll20 and it’s fantastic. Character sheet takes a little practice to get right. I use this instead of the built-in power builder: http://4e-power-builder.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/.
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May 21, 2020 15:11
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Octavo posted:I’m currently teaching a new group to play 4e via roll20 and it’s fantastic. Character sheet takes a little practice to get right. I use this instead of the built-in power builder: http://4e-power-builder.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/.
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May 21, 2020 15:24
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dwarf74 posted:It's weird, Essentials classes veer sharply between 'extraordinarly conservative game design' and 'oooh let's try this weird thing and see if it works." I have to imagine it's a mixture of "Mike Mearls is in charge, we're supposed to be as un-4e as possible, demands more Wizards, and can't touch Warlords", "it's the end of the edition, let's do all the crazy poo poo we can think of", and "nobody left in a position of power after all the firings realizes the Bladesinger, Binder, or Vampire are hilariously terribad." gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 15:47 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 15:43
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dwarf74 posted:Yeah, we are playing Savage Worlds Adventure Edition right now, not 4e, but like so many other people we''re trying Roll20 for the first time. It just struck me how apparently 4e-friendly all the tools for conditions and tokens and whatnot seem to be. In case you decide to use it for 4e at some point, here are some of the macros I've made along with a brief explanation for how they work: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VVlumlOD-VOeZTsBQF1E8IP1Q2_1lbN9ZKWa5bx9GMg/edit?usp=sharing.
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May 21, 2020 18:37
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Octavo posted:In case you decide to use it for 4e at some point, here are some of the macros I've made along with a brief explanation for how they work: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VVlumlOD-VOeZTsBQF1E8IP1Q2_1lbN9ZKWa5bx9GMg/edit?usp=sharing.
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May 21, 2020 18:41
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El Fideo posted:I'm posting in here because the dedicated Gamma World Thread is egregiously dead. So I did some excavating and I think I found a specific Wayback capture that has a chunk of the BoldPueblo Gamma World stuff. It doesn't look like the Uber Tier is included in that, but I have that saved on my hard drive and can put it up on Mediafire or something like that later tonight. EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/file/6r7eo8cfy3iv6yg/Gamma_World_7e_Stuff.zip Lumbermouth fucked around with this message at 22:43 on May 28, 2020 |
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May 28, 2020 22:36
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Anyone know how to get the character builder to calculate the attack bonuses of weapons-used-as-implements correctly? I've got a level 23 bard here with a harsh songblade longsword. Weapon powers get +29 to hit, but implement ones only get +24. I guess 3 of the difference is because of implements having no proficiency bonus, maybe another is from heavy blade expertise not applying to implements maybe (though it should), but then there's another point of difference I can't pin down.
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Aug 16, 2020 10:50
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Heavy Blade Expertise only gives a bonus to weapon attacks, you should use a feat like Battle Song Expertise instead if you intend to make implement attacks. That's where your 3 points are missing.
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Aug 16, 2020 11:12
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Ah, that one only exists in Dragon Magazine 402, which isn't in the character builder for me. There IS one called "versatile expertise", but it wants me to pick a weapon and an implement, and won't let me choose heavy blade twice. Maybe I just need to pick something at random and it'll still apply.
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Aug 16, 2020 12:59
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Yeah, versatile expertise works well with weapliments. It gives a bonus to both weapon and implement attacks for the weapon and the implement you pick, so there's no need for you to select heavy blade twice.
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Aug 16, 2020 14:13
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I suppose I'll just click at random for the second choice then
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Aug 16, 2020 16:32
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Re: Essentials classes being an insane grab bag that upsets the apple cart of 4E's largely careful design, I recommend doing what my friends and I have done in every 4E game we've ever played, which is to pretend Essentials doesn't exist and not feel like you're missing anything
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Aug 16, 2020 21:52
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Baku posted:Re: Essentials classes being an insane grab bag that upsets the apple cart of 4E's largely careful design, I recommend doing what my friends and I have done in every 4E game we've ever played, which is to pretend Essentials doesn't exist and not feel like you're missing anything "Hmm, yes. I do think I shall swap out this PHB attack for 'Now you can basic attack with multiple choice status effects of Slow(save ends), prone, and push" But that was definitely an exception that felt like a brave soul slipped it in rather than intentional essentials design.
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Aug 17, 2020 04:58
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I’ve mentioned my feelings on Essentials before, and it’s that they’re the kind of prebuilt class you hand to someone who’s mostly just coming to D&D to hang out and never pays attention to combat until you remind them that it’s their turn. I don’t mean that as an insult towards that type of player, sometimes you just wanna hang out with your friends and drink beer while playing a board game. It’s a good niche to be able to cover, simple and straightforward gimmicks are nice, but I don’t think it’s what was intended. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Aug 17, 2020 |
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Aug 17, 2020 15:28
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My friend played 4e having never played D&D before. His first character was a Balanced Cleric made with advice from a guy in our group who didn't understand the 4e rules and was a jerk to boot. He later switched over to playing a Slayer and had a much better time.
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Aug 17, 2020 15:55
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I’m considering making a FF Tactics/Final Fantasy 5 inspired hack/campaign of 4e, where you can change classes between battles. Your level is consistent, but what powers you can move between classes increases as you level, including certain mastery bonuses. I can’t imagine it working much past 5 or 6, but slower, cinematic leveling would be fine with the inherent variety available from the class swapping mechanic. For example, you play five battles as a Fighter, you get the option to replace one of your other Encounter powers with a Fighter power whenever you swap classes. There would need to be a LOT of prebaked work done, including basically all of the classes prebuilt; the variety would come from customizing the class builds, not the builds themselves.
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Aug 17, 2020 17:11
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PMush Perfect posted:I’m considering making a FF Tactics/Final Fantasy 5 inspired hack/campaign of 4e, where you can change classes between battles. Your level is consistent, but what powers you can move between classes increases as you level, including certain mastery bonuses. I can’t imagine it working much past 5 or 6, but slower, cinematic leveling would be fine with the inherent variety available from the class swapping mechanic. That would be pretty dope, and i'd be interested to see how this pans out.
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Aug 17, 2020 17:47
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PMush Perfect posted:I’ve mentioned my feelings on Essentials before, and it’s that they’re the kind of prebuilt class you hand to someone who’s mostly just coming to D&D to hang out and never pays attention to combat until you remind them that it’s their turn. The thing to understand about Essentials is that it really isn't in any way simpler than a non-Essentials class except that you have less choices as you level up. Several of the Essentials classes are also bad or scale poorly because Mike Mearls isn't a good designer and doesn't like or understand 4E. The point is that a level 1 PHB Fighter isn't going to be more difficult to run than one of the Essentials Fighter variants. Later on you have less choice in what happens to your character, and by then you should either know what's going on with 4E or have gone on to play a game you'd rather play. There's nothing wrong with a player who wants a simple kit, but Essentials doesn't really deliver that. Nothing is streamlined except basic attacks, which like many aspects of 4E could use some streamlining, but there you go.
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Aug 17, 2020 21:22
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PMush Perfect posted:I’m considering making a FF Tactics/Final Fantasy 5 inspired hack/campaign of 4e, where you can change classes between battles. Your level is consistent, but what powers you can move between classes increases as you level, including certain mastery bonuses. I can’t imagine it working much past 5 or 6, but slower, cinematic leveling would be fine with the inherent variety available from the class swapping mechanic. Lancer (a mech game that borrows very heavily from 4E) has hot-swappable classes (as mech frames), and I've been working on a 4E/Lancer hybrid (themed as She-Ra/Final Fantasy) where you have hot-swappable fantasy classes. It's doable, you just have to lean into the theme.
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Aug 17, 2020 22:40
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The thing to understand about Essentials is that it really isn't in any way simpler than a non-Essentials class except that you have less choices as you level up. Several of the Essentials classes are also bad or scale poorly because Mike Mearls isn't a good designer and doesn't like or understand 4E. The thing about this is that not everyone is the same. There are plenty of people who want to plan their turns out with all factors in one go and for those players there's little difference. There are also plenty that don't and for which the much more bite-sized chunks that the Essentials classes decisions are broken up into helps to avoid analysis paralysis. If you find classic 4e classes easy to play then you won't find essentials classes any easier (I actually like the Thief because it gives me its own nice collection of interesting choices). On the other hand if you don't click with classic 4e classes you might like the freedom to be able to simply say "I hit it" and then decide to power attack after the to hit rolls. What Essentials delivered was characters with simple decision points, separating the choice of how to attack from who to attack - and I can think of several players it really transformed the experience of. And I find objections to that to be exclusionary gatekeeping bullshit.
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Aug 18, 2020 03:31
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neonchameleon posted:The thing about this is that not everyone is the same. There are plenty of people who want to plan their turns out with all factors in one go and for those players there's little difference. There are also plenty that don't and for which the much more bite-sized chunks that the Essentials classes decisions are broken up into helps to avoid analysis paralysis. If you find classic 4e classes easy to play then you won't find essentials classes any easier (I actually like the Thief because it gives me its own nice collection of interesting choices). On the other hand if you don't click with classic 4e classes you might like the freedom to be able to simply say "I hit it" and then decide to power attack after the to hit rolls. I think people would have less of a negative reaction to it if it really was just """streamlined""" and not so often "Worse. Straight up worse right out of the box. Pick things at random from the PHB with your eyes closed and you'd probably be better off." It is PRETENDING it is doing new players a favor. That's one of the worst forms of gatekeeping, tricking the new guys with trash and telling them "Don't worry, THIS thing is newbie friendly! And if you are having trouble, that's just because you don't appreciate our deep system enough yet." Then again, I've also seen people who will also ask for X, and when you hand them a character sheet you wrote up for them say "But I don't want to be a DEX fighter who is also a master survivalist by default due to a background trait. Obviously a Breath of the wild Link clone would be strength based or a ranger or-" regardless of edition or system. So clearly kicking the gates wide open and streamlining so hard the player didn't have to do any prep work isn't the be all solution either  Even if I do shudder at the thought of going back to 4th ed without a builder. Section Z fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Aug 18, 2020 |
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Aug 18, 2020 03:55
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neonchameleon posted:The thing about this is that not everyone is the same. There are plenty of people who want to plan their turns out with all factors in one go and for those players there's little difference. There are also plenty that don't and for which the much more bite-sized chunks that the Essentials classes decisions are broken up into helps to avoid analysis paralysis. If you find classic 4e classes easy to play then you won't find essentials classes any easier (I actually like the Thief because it gives me its own nice collection of interesting choices). On the other hand if you don't click with classic 4e classes you might like the freedom to be able to simply say "I hit it" and then decide to power attack after the to hit rolls. It's not really about gatekeeping, it's that I don't think the Essentials classes accomplish the goal of being "simple" very well. I agree 4E has lovely amounts of pain points for analysis paralysis and I've seen it shut down peoples' brains, and people forgetting to add in one or more of their many modifiers until the end of their turn was common at my tables.
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Aug 18, 2020 04:00
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If there’s one thing Essentials did extremely well, it’s managing to create the same tired edition war arguments within a single edition.
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Aug 18, 2020 05:54
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If Essentials delivered that I'm convinced it was largely by accident because it was conceived and designed as the Make D&D Great Again update. And it still equates the "I hit it" classes with martials ("the class your cousin can play") while the arcanes get complex options, which is its own kind of gatekeeping bullshit.
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Aug 18, 2020 05:57
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PMush Perfect posted:If there’s one thing Essentials did extremely well, it’s managing to create the same tired edition war arguments within a single edition. Sorry, I'm trying not to start edition wars (or inter-edition wars?) in the D&D threads
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Aug 18, 2020 11:09
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neonchameleon posted:What Essentials delivered was characters with simple decision points, separating the choice of how to attack from who to attack - and I can think of several players it really transformed the experience of.
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Aug 18, 2020 13:23
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I found Essentials odd because the one class I really cottoned to was the hexblade. It has a weird mechanical issue where it's built around an item cloning another item, something you don't see anywhere else. Even the official character builder had trouble handling it.
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Aug 18, 2020 13:40
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