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i've decided to enjoy it, I'm happy for bernie. https://twitter.com/Rhizzone_Txt/status/633401353327542272
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Feb 7, 2020 03:20
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Goast posted:im pretty socdem compared to the other posters here but even the weeks of BERNIEBERNIEBERNIE have kinda weirded me out Jesus take the win buddy
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Feb 7, 2020 03:22
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's going to be interesting to see if Chapo is going to turn into an insufferable left version of Rachel Maddow during the Obama administration, or if they're going to hold him to account idk because i think bernie's situation is going to be more comparable to corbyn, where he will end up fighting his own liberal party more than the opposition as president. if he immediately starts surrendering poo poo to the centrist democrats then yeah hopefully the left in general makes it clear thats not going to work. i have enough trust in him for now that i dont think he'll do that, and i dont think comparisons to Obama are particularly fair. Obama was always firmly rooted in standard democratic party liberalism of the 90s and 2000s, while bernie's ideological background and outlook is fundamentally different and instead based in class consciousness. bernie is old, and the ultimate result of his political career will be some form of increased working class consciousness - maybe not an ideal revolutionary form of it, but one that after bernie is gone wont go away and will certainly be a base for the left for a generation to build on. and if we ever do enter a revolutionary period, we will certainly have been better off with that base and organization.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:23
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I'm not saying Bernie is going to turn into Obama, I'm saying I hope the nascent left media doesn't become a fawning hugbox for his administration l
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Feb 7, 2020 03:28
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Centrist Committee posted:Jesus take the win buddy thats what got us where we are today, complacency is bullshit Goast fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 03:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not saying Bernie is going to turn into Obama, I'm saying I hope the nascent left media doesn't become a fawning hugbox for his administration l bernie deserves his own pravda, I think
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Feb 7, 2020 03:29
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Also, there is also 5-4 advantage for conservatives on the SCOTUS and the entire Republican party to deal with. I honestly don't think Sanders would be able to do much beyond executive orders and what they can be used for is relatively limited. I think the biggest thing going on is exposing how much the Democratic Party (and the rest of the power structures of the US) will go after even a relatively mild social democratic canidate and that the US is arguably incapable of reforming itself this late in the game. Also, yeah, the US electoral system somehow is somehow more of a joke than it was before. That said, maybe "overhyping" Bernie is not such a negative thing if only since it is building up a degree of optimistism that can't be fufilled (even if Sanders did his best) and people should rightfully be more angry at the system in place.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:31
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not saying Bernie is going to turn into Obama, I'm saying I hope the nascent left media doesn't become a fawning hugbox for his administration l if bernie is good i hope they do produce dumb boring agitprop. if hes bad then i agree.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:32
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Ardennes posted:Also, there is also 5-4 advantage for conservatives on the SCOTUS and the entire Republican party to deal with. I honestly don't think Sanders would be able to do much beyond executive orders and what they can be used for is relatively limited. yeah, what i see is the end result for a sanders presidency is some significant reforms that materially benefit the working class, and a lot of anger at the much more significant reforms that were blocked by the rest of the assholes in DC, that hopefully bernie never compromised on so he can basically be a martyr figure. and that is the platform to build a more radical movement on, hopefully.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'm not saying Bernie is going to turn into Obama, I'm saying I hope the nascent left media doesn't become a fawning hugbox for his administration l
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Feb 7, 2020 03:38
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like, i think if bernie wins & doesnt compromise totally there will absolutely be an attempt to impeach him on bullshit nearly immediately, and as a vastly greater threat to the american capitalist class than Trump you might be able to get enough terrible dems to do it. and that would be an incredible radicalizing event. hell, if trump even lets him take office.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:40
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I think another very salient point to make is that if we don't deal with Climate Change then any gains we make with class consciousness and organizing will be irrelevant in the face of ecological collapse. Sanders the only one running for president that has both a credible plan to deal with Climate Change, and the political will to enact it. Quite frankly any talk of revolution or dual power that doesn't include a plan to deal with the climate in the short term is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:42
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There was a guy from kampuchea who had some pretty good ideas on how to combat climate change, but apparently hes too "edgy" for the bernie bros 🙄
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Feb 7, 2020 03:49
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:yeah, what i see is the end result for a sanders presidency is some significant reforms that materially benefit the working class, and a lot of anger at the much more significant reforms that were blocked by the rest of the assholes in DC, that hopefully bernie never compromised on so he can basically be a martyr figure. and that is the platform to build a more radical movement on, hopefully. Granted, that is more optimistic than I am, I don't think much will change beyond relatively centrist policy not that Sanders wouldn't want more but that a president isn't actually an emperor and has to get legislation passed through congress. Maybe he could work some magic with executive orders but they would be temporary and couldn't impact spending to a significant degree. I hope it would lead to another another movement, but I think focusing specifically around Bernie and electoralism will probably limit its effect. AnEdgelord posted:I think another very salient point to make is that if we don't deal with Climate Change then any gains we make with class consciousness and organizing will be irrelevant in the face of ecological collapse. Sanders the only one running for president that has both a credible plan to deal with Climate Change, and the political will to enact it. I don't think there is any way to significantly halt climate change at this point to be honest, at best Sanders could demand more money for shelters, aquaducts, and seawalls.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:54
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Get the climate doom poo poo out of here lol. The idea that the planet it going to be transformed into a wetter version of Venus in your lifetime or mine is a version of religious end-times for liberals.
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Feb 7, 2020 03:56
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Get the climate doom poo poo out of here lol. The idea that the planet it going to be transformed into a wetter version of Venus in your lifetime or mine is a version of religious end-times for liberals. The gulf between "now" and "literally venus" is pretty loving wide my dude, far more likely is that the weather just keeps getting increasingly worse and landmass shrinks as sea levels rise. Much more minor climate events led to things like the Bronze Age Collapse, The Crisis of the Third Century, The Great Migrations and even the French Revolution itself.
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Feb 7, 2020 04:01
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AnEdgelord posted:The gulf between "now" and "literally venus" is pretty loving wide my dude, far more likely is that the weather just keeps getting increasingly worse and landmass shrinks as sea levels rise. Much more minor climate events led to things like the Bronze Age Collapse, The Crisis of the Third Century, The Great Migrations and even the French Revolution itself. oh nooooo
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Feb 7, 2020 04:05
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:oh nooooo Trust me thats just the ideal outcome, the Great Migrations are probably a closer example to how climate change will go and a MUCH worse outcome
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Feb 7, 2020 04:08
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AnEdgelord posted:Trust me thats just the ideal outcome, the Great Migrations are probably a closer example to how climate change will go and a MUCH worse outcome the collapse of a massive slave empire?
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Feb 7, 2020 04:09
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:oh nooooo I'm pro-climate change now 😈
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Feb 7, 2020 04:10
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DSA Ancien Régime Caucus
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Feb 7, 2020 04:10
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:the collapse of a massive slave empire? Wait until you find out about the societies that replaced that slave empire AnEdgelord fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Feb 7, 2020 |
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Feb 7, 2020 04:13
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Really weird place to find people saying climate change is overblown but okay just needs to deputize a few million people into the Cia and call it the Communists In Action. We can bully everyone into passing whatever legislation we need
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Feb 7, 2020 04:15
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Really weird place to find people saying climate change is overblown but okay
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Feb 7, 2020 04:18
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climate change owns, don't go putting sad brains on me 
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Feb 7, 2020 04:21
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love coming into the communist thread and operating under the assumption everyone thinks the French Revolution was bad
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Feb 7, 2020 04:22
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Homeless Friend posted:climate change owns, don't go putting sad brains on me Yeah! Climate change gave us Napoleon and as all Stalin fans know, Bonapartism is good!
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Feb 7, 2020 04:23
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AnEdgelord posted:Wait until you find about the societies that replaced that slave empire werent a lot of the germanic tribes pseudo-democratic? like, the origin of western parliaments goes back to saxon and nordic althings and poo poo, moreso than the roman/greek republican traditions. hell feudalism was still probably a less lovely system than the slave estates of the romans. climate change isnt really overblown, but capitalism even in ideal conditions is entirely incapable of stopping it. bernie winning 75% of the vote would be incapable of taking the necessary actions to actually prevent it or even meaningfully reduce it. if it winds up being bad enough to lead to the collapse of the current social and economic order..... capitalism.... well,
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Feb 7, 2020 04:25
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Yeah! Climate change gave us Napoleon and as all Stalin fans know, Bonapartism is good! 
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Feb 7, 2020 04:26
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GalacticAcid posted:love coming into the communist thread and operating under the assumption everyone thinks the French Revolution was bad For gently caress's sake it was included to give people an idea of the scale of what could happen and the bad thing that happened wasnt the Revolution it was the famine that precipitated and led to the Revolution
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Feb 7, 2020 04:32
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*in Scrooge’s “there’s more gravy than grave about you” voice* there’s more lord than edgelord about you
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Feb 7, 2020 04:35
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GalacticAcid posted:*in Scrooge’s “there’s more gravy than grave about you” voice* there’s more lord than edgelord about you Wait until you hear my opinions on Warhammer
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Feb 7, 2020 04:38
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:werent a lot of the germanic tribes pseudo-democratic? like, the origin of western parliaments goes back to saxon and nordic althings and poo poo, moreso than the roman/greek republican traditions. hell feudalism was still probably a less lovely system than the slave estates of the romans. Unironic critical support for the Goths
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Feb 7, 2020 04:43
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GalacticAcid posted:*in Scrooge’s “there’s more gravy than grave about you” voice* there’s more lord than edgelord about you
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Feb 7, 2020 05:21
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There's one positive reason why I really do want a Bernie presidency, and it's to see whether all the bullshit presidential powers Trump is using because he can't make deals could be used for good. Like, laugh at opposition in the party, pull the troops home and make them build renewable energy. Start throwing around fossil fuel tariffs to push the move to electricity. He might not even need the support of his party to be the best president of the US ever, and in fact not having it might show him the right way.
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Feb 7, 2020 05:55
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more like bonaFARTism
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Feb 7, 2020 06:11
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sanders could also deal a serious blow to all the lovely undemocratic surveillance state institutions that orbit the presidency, like the NSA the upside of the development of the imperial presidency over the last 70 years is you can have someone show up and dismantle a lot of this crap. I have to imagine there'd be republicans amenable to ripping apart the deep state apparatus that's been hounding their big boy trump the last few years of course those institutions will fight back viciously so
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Feb 7, 2020 06:37
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Dreylad posted:I have to imagine there'd be republicans amenable to ripping apart the deep state apparatus that's been hounding their big boy trump the last few years the rest of your post is correct, but the Republicans are going to forget about "The Deep State" and the surveillance state as soon as their guy is out of office and will crow about how dismantling the CIA and NSA will make America unsafe
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Feb 7, 2020 06:50
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being ready to jettison every possible socialist gain on the altar of fighting climate change is actually counter revolutionary. something got into the water supply and now western leftists think the problem with capitalism is factories.
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Feb 7, 2020 06:53
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Green anarchism has had a stealth comeback over the past few years, as a sentiment with a couple big ideas more than as a serious intellectual thing.
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Feb 7, 2020 07:11
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