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Yukaichiban posted:Interested in this but felt it isn't thread worthy; if wrestling died tomorrow and we knew it was happening in some weird hypothetical, what do you want the final wrestling match ever to be? Chris Dickinson vs Kawada
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Feb 9, 2020 07:12
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oldpainless posted:If you could take any two wrestlers from any year and combine them into the best wrestler who would you choose and why was it 2002 Brock Lesnar and 2014 Brock Lesnar?
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Feb 9, 2020 07:53
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MassRafTer posted:Yeah, Vince matches never really drew very well.
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Feb 9, 2020 10:12
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jesus WEP posted:didn’t Vince vs Austin in a cage do a shockingly poor number considering how that was the biggest story in all of wrestling for a solid year? Like, less than WCW’s number that month in 1999 Yes. People wanted to see Vince act the fool and get a stunner, not wrestle. WCW hadn't totally collapsed yet, although it was careening off the cliff.
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Feb 9, 2020 10:29
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I don't quite know how much this affected Vince matches in terms of drawing, but another problem with them was that they were rarely "Vince gets his rear end kicked for five minutes or less and then loses" like you might have expected, but instead they were wacky sideshows filled with shenanigans and interference, in the main event. The aforementioned cage match with Austin has one of the silliest finishes ever, punctuated by how it was poor Big Show's WWF debut! Even more bizarrely (or not, as the case may be) were the cases where the commentators talked Vince up as if he actually had a chance of winning without cheating, crowing about his PERFECT PHYSICAL SPECIMEN or whatever. Come to think of it, I'm not sure if we were the target audience for Vince matches...
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Feb 9, 2020 12:23
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in the Retro shows Bryan talks about how Mick Foley's body was falling apart in frickin' 1999. He uses it to criticze indie guys who kill themselves so that, by the time they make the big bucks, they can't even go anymore. Wasn't Foley wrestling people like Vader and Funk in big time promotions? He was a big name before WWF I thought.
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Feb 9, 2020 13:45
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The point isn’t that he was an indie guy, it’s that he spent years killing himself and he’s a wreck now
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Feb 9, 2020 13:47
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forkboy84 posted:Coming back from not paying attention to wrestling for a few years to find Bradshaw had gone from the cigar chomping APA guy to a poor man's Ted Dibiase only with an actual main event push that Ted never got was so jarring. I couldn't buy it. It was sillier than Jinder getting a sudden main event push years later. There it is. I never quite figured out why JBL's push was so insulting (besides him getting rewarded for being a poo poo human being) and it's because he got the push and belt that DiBiase never did.
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Feb 9, 2020 13:47
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NikkolasKing posted:in the Retro shows Bryan talks about how Mick Foley's body was falling apart in frickin' 1999. He uses it to criticze indie guys who kill themselves so that, by the time they make the big bucks, they can't even go anymore. Foley had some awesome loving matches in WCW, probably better overall than his stuff in WWE
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Feb 9, 2020 13:52
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Pope Corky the IX posted:There it is. I never quite figured out why JBL's push was so insulting (besides him getting rewarded for being a poo poo human being) and it's because he got the push and belt that DiBiase never did. I usually enjoy the Rich rear end in a top hat gimmick - heck I even liked Del Rio at one point! - but the thing that rubbed me the wrong way about JBL (in addition to his push seemingly coming out of nowhere) was that he rarely ever seemed to get his comeuppance, and that combined with the George Bush aspect to his gimmick left a sour taste in my mouth, even though I was only 14 years old at the time. Strangely, I had survived things like La Resistance and Scott Steiner telling us that critics of the Iraq invasion can go "straight to Hell, or France, same difference!", but it's WWE doing the gimmick for HEEL heat that turns me off wrestling, of course.
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Feb 9, 2020 17:42
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forkboy84 posted:Coming back from not paying attention to wrestling for a few years to find Bradshaw had gone from the cigar chomping APA guy to a poor man's Ted Dibiase only with an actual main event push that Ted never got was so jarring. I couldn't buy it. It was sillier than Jinder getting a sudden main event push years later. As someone who was watching at the time, it wasn't any less jarring. As I recall, APA broke up one week and he literally showed up in his new gimmick the next week and was immediately pushed to a title program with Eddie. But Smackdown's roster was in bad shape at the time because of injuries, Brock leaving, and people being moved to Raw, so I guess that was their solution.
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Feb 9, 2020 17:51
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JBL's heel persona was pretty good imo too bad about the wrestling
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Feb 9, 2020 17:58
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I believe also that Eddie's run as champion wasn't doing the business that they were expecting? If so, that sucks. 
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Feb 9, 2020 18:54
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I mean, isn't WWE's expectations whenever they do something with a hispanic wrestler that he's suddenly going to spike all latin american numbers in an irrational and slightly racist way?
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Feb 9, 2020 18:57
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, isn't WWE's expectations whenever they do something with a hispanic wrestler that he's suddenly going to spike all latin american numbers in an irrational and slightly racist way? Yes, I believe so.
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Feb 9, 2020 19:02
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They put the belt on Jinder with the expectation that they’d grab a huge new market in India and immediately afterwards their numbers there tanked and they scrapped the plan lol I just love everything about how that poo poo went down and will use any opportunity to post about it. It’s why Jinder’s reign had to be immortalized in the champ poll.
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Feb 9, 2020 20:41
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extradite THIS! posted:They put the belt on Jinder with the expectation that they’d grab a huge new market in India and immediately afterwards their numbers there tanked and they scrapped the plan lol On top of Jinder not being very good and the booking being bad, was part of this down to WWE not knowing that he's of Punjabi Sikh descent?
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Feb 9, 2020 21:08
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IIRC one of the things they ran into is that India's economy really wouldn't support the kind of ticket prices they wanted. With KSA it doesn't matter because it's a guaranteed $10 million (whenever the prince decides to actually pay), MBS will call in a bunch of richer Saudis to sit in the front rows and check their phones, and it's just for appearances anyway so if they've got empty seats who cares. Like half of the value of this is just showing off "look at our cool modern sports complex please give us the World Cup". Like even leaving aside, for a moment, the ethical/moral arguments of taking money from a genocidal regime, one of the knock-on effects of the Saudi shows has been Vince has had less immediate reason to care about what the audience actually thinks of the programming. They're getting money no matter what. He can put on anything. It's gotta be almost the dream for him, he would love to just be able to cut out the audience completely. And yeah that's not entirely working. Maxwell Lord fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Feb 9, 2020 |
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Feb 9, 2020 21:16
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Maxwell Lord posted:IIRC one of the things they ran into is that India's economy really wouldn't support the kind of ticket prices they wanted. Also one of the problems they have running in Mexico, I believe. Randaconda fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 9, 2020 |
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Feb 9, 2020 21:35
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maybe it turns out than india isn’t actually a billion starry-eyed naifs who will go completely insane with joy for a dude from calgary who happens to share their ethnicity
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Feb 9, 2020 21:38
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Maxwell Lord posted:Like even leaving aside, for a moment, the ethical/moral arguments of taking money from a genocidal regime, one of the knock-on effects of the Saudi shows has been Vince has had less immediate reason to care about what the audience actually thinks of the programming. They're getting money no matter what. He can put on anything. It's gotta be almost the dream for him, he would love to just be able to cut out the audience completely.
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Feb 9, 2020 21:38
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The Lord of Hats posted:Who’s the greatest jobber? Lanny Poffo 1. 1-0 vs Hogan 2. Had a WCW contract to stay home 3. Gets no pushback for whitewashing his brother's legacy
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Feb 9, 2020 21:41
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Randaconda posted:Also one of the problems they having running in Mexico, I believe. They were very successful in Mexico for several years, it's more they stopped drawing. When WWE was hot in Mexico their ticket prices were hurting the market for months down the line for the local companies. People spent so much to see WWE they weren't coming to see the local groups.
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Feb 9, 2020 21:56
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extradite THIS! posted:They put the belt on Jinder with the expectation that they’d grab a huge new market in India and immediately afterwards their numbers there tanked and they scrapped the plan lol And, if anyone in that company had half a brain, if they wanted him to get over huge in a new market, they would have booked him as a triumphant face, not a cowardly heel.
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Feb 9, 2020 22:00
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Davros1 posted:And, if anyone in that company had half a brain, if they wanted him to get over huge in a new market, they would have booked him as a triumphant face, not a cowardly heel. The annoying part is that WWE knew this, because the Indian commentary desk portrayed him as more of an antihero whose friends care too much about having an Indian as champion for the first time to not interfere. They just had him be a cowardly heel with minions in every other market because cheap heat is safe, and I hate it.
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Feb 9, 2020 22:20
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It would be funny to find out that for 30 years WWE has just been repeating the Bret Hart "Face in Canada/Heel in America" thing but only on foreign commentary.
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Feb 9, 2020 22:30
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Hedgehog Pie posted:On top of Jinder not being very good and the booking being bad, was part of this down to WWE not knowing that he's of Punjabi Sikh descent? If I'm not mistaken, there are more Punjabi speakers across the global diaspora than there are IN INDIA. Hell, there are over twice as many Punjabi speakers in Pakistan as there are in India. He kept cutting promos in Punjabi for "my people" even though India is majority Hindi-speaking and only 3% of the population knows Punjabi at all. Either way, he wasn't a draw in the US and clearly not in India either; he dropped the belt before they ended up touring in India. We all knew it was stupid at the time and it's only getting more bewildering in hindsight.
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Feb 9, 2020 22:49
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Dr. rear end posted:If I'm not mistaken, there are more Punjabi speakers across the global diaspora than there are IN INDIA. Hell, there are over twice as many Punjabi speakers in Pakistan as there are in India. He kept cutting promos in Punjabi for "my people" even though India is majority Hindi-speaking and only 3% of the population knows Punjabi at all. And by touring India it was a two night tour of one city and they had to cancel one of those shows due to poor ticket sales.
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Feb 9, 2020 23:26
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MassRafTer posted:And by touring India it was a two night tour of one city and they had to cancel one of those shows due to poor ticket sales. I think this was only after he lost the title too?
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Feb 9, 2020 23:58
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Aphrodite posted:I think this was only after he lost the title too? Yeah they took it off of him a week or two before the show. Jinder lost to HHH on that show too, right? MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 10, 2020 |
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Feb 9, 2020 23:59
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MassRafTer posted:Yeah they took it off of him a week or two before the show. Yes, and bowed to him after the match.
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Feb 10, 2020 00:06
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Max Coveri posted:Yes, and bowed to him after the match. Lol
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Feb 10, 2020 05:33
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Another hilarious thing about the Jinder push is that they based it off Facebook/Youtube numbers in India, which anyone with half a brain could tell you was inflated by click farms and didn't come close to an accurate portrayal of WWE demand in that region. Western companies trying to crowbar their way into India and China without a single understanding of the different markets and cultures, and then meekly retreating when it inevitably fails, will never get old to me.
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Feb 10, 2020 06:33
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I was binging random youtube poo poo and saw a clip of Austin talking about differences between WCW and WWF/E rings. WCW was 18 foot, WWF/E 20 foot. Anyone know how big the AEW rings are? Back in the day I never noticed a difference in WCW and WWF rings on TV, and guys could transition pretty well from one to the other it seemed like, during the Monday Night Wars era when guys were flip flopping somewhat often.
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Feb 10, 2020 08:05
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Monkeycheese posted:I was binging random youtube poo poo and saw a clip of Austin talking about differences between WCW and WWF/E rings. WCW was 18 foot, WWF/E 20 foot. Apparently 20 x 20 for aew too. The boat ring was noticeably smaller.
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Feb 10, 2020 08:17
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Max Coveri posted:Yes, and bowed to him after the match.
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Feb 10, 2020 09:16
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MassRafTer posted:And by touring India it was a two night tour of one city and they had to cancel one of those shows due to poor ticket sales. So what we're saying is that Ring Ka King did a better job of running Indian shows than WWE.
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Feb 10, 2020 09:25
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The Croc posted:Apparently 20 x 20 for aew too. I always wonder how much it throws wrestlers off when they have a match in a ring that's smaller or bigger (or a different shape) than what they're accustomed to.
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Feb 10, 2020 09:33
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extradite THIS! posted:I always wonder how much it throws wrestlers off when they have a match in a ring that's smaller or bigger (or a different shape) than what they're accustomed to. i know the incredibly stupid 6 sided TNA ring threw me off.
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Feb 10, 2020 10:10
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i hated the 6-sided ring, no reservations. im glad no one decided to try and copycat that.
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Feb 10, 2020 10:12
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