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Slimnoid posted:Glow in the dark covers need to make a comeback. Hell yeah they do. Like I'm already spending money on a nerdy book about playing monsters, go nuts on the glowing embossed cover and poo poo. Hell I'll take holographic covers. Let's get loving weird with it. E: also haunted books. All Geist 2 books should be haunted. Really spice up game night
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Feb 12, 2020 03:11
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Books with pop-up/fold open sections for extra goddamn weirdness. I want to have to pull a tab to see how many dice I gotta roll.
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Feb 12, 2020 03:20
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I have the original glow in the dark 1E Wraith core. Bought it used years ago.
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Feb 12, 2020 03:21
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Pangaea Ultima posted:Just got mine too, and it’s a beaut! Makes me sad I can’t get a similar copy of the other (older) 2nd ed CofD cores I like. The DTRPG PoD option seems lovely, judging from reviews. Don't buy PoD hardcover books from DTRPG. I got Changeling 20th. I'm terrified it'll break apart if I open it, it's that weak. If you want pictures of how bad it is, I can put some up and explain why it's crap.
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Feb 12, 2020 03:27
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aperion posted:Don't buy PoD hardcover books from DTRPG. I got Changeling 20th. I'm terrified it'll break apart if I open it, it's that weak. If you want pictures of how bad it is, I can put some up and explain why it's crap. I haven't had problems with smaller PoD hardbacks. Even the CofD 2e corebooks, while you can still tell the difference, I wouldn't really call flimsy or fragile. 20th Anniversary Editions, though? God forbid, the Exalted Third Edition corebook? I wouldn't even consider books of that size.
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Feb 12, 2020 03:37
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I Am Just a Box posted:I haven't had problems with smaller PoD hardbacks. Even the CofD 2e corebooks, while you can still tell the difference, I wouldn't really call flimsy or fragile. Yeah, it was a $110 mistake. These 20th books all need to be done up at least as strong as FFG Star Wars corebooks, and they are not even close. I can't even imagine the Mage 20th book; for as bad as Changeling is, add another 200 pages to that.
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Feb 12, 2020 03:45
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I haven’t had issues with the POD from Drivethrurpg. The Mage 2e core has seen very heavy use for three years and the binding hasn’t had any issues. It’s gotten more use than my 3.5e Player’s Handbook even and stayed in better shape. The newer Signs of Sorcery is fine too. Just remember that new hardcovers of that size like to have their binding properly worked before your use it and it’s been fine for me. The Geist 2e book is quite nice and I do wish I’d gotten some of the other nice printings. I’ll just have Deviant and Geist and that’s all.
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Feb 12, 2020 04:00
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Yeah, PoD only regularly sucks on gigantor books like M20, V20 or Ex3. Though that's not to say the binding is "great" even on little books. I would definitely pay for casebound copies of Awakening, Requiem, Forsaken and CODCore, even without an errata pass/minor expansion redo. Jhet posted:The Geist 2e book is quite nice and I do wish I’d gotten some of the other nice printings. I’ll just have Deviant and Geist and that’s all. Well, Changeling and Hunter are the only two you're missing that have/had that option anyway. It's not an impossible dream. Hunter is Kickstarting right now.
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Feb 12, 2020 04:29
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While a good binding is nice to have, what I really like about the prestige editions is just the silver paper finish that they put on (most of) the old nWoD 1e corebooks. I'm a sucker for that stuff, and I'm irrationally pleased to have Changeling and Demon in that look for 2e, and Deviant when it comes around. Didn't get it for Geist, though, and probably not for Hunter. Geist 2e ultimately landed me on a "good, but not great" pledge level, and I'm not sure, from what I saw of earlier playtesting previews, that Hunter 2e will even reach that high for me. Love that silver paper, though. Demon prestige cover's so good.
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Feb 12, 2020 05:08
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The only other thing I will impart here from my personal experience with Changeling 2E is that you'll get good mileage out of just shoving every cute + weird animal from your Twitter timeline into the game as a hob. Players love hobs, even when you make a few of them weird body horror cops that are also pigs, so long as some threshold of them are honking rear end in a top hat geese or murder cats or melon boys playing match 3 while betraying the motley, and then getting murdered and eaten by the honking rear end in a top hat goose, who is named Steve, and now has access to the motley's Hollow and is involved in business and schemes
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Feb 12, 2020 08:17
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Crion posted:The only other thing I will impart here from my personal experience with Changeling 2E is that you'll get good mileage out of just shoving every cute + weird animal from your Twitter timeline into the game as a hob. Players love hobs, even when you make a few of them weird body horror cops that are also pigs, so long as some threshold of them are honking rear end in a top hat geese or murder cats or melon boys playing match 3 while betraying the motley, and then getting murdered and eaten by the honking rear end in a top hat goose, who is named Steve, and now has access to the motley's Hollow and is involved in business and schemes I'm gearing up to run Mage starting next week, but this post is seriously making me want to switch to Changeling. Or at least pray that I end up with at least one Acanthus in the group.
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Feb 12, 2020 08:42
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A thyrsus in my Mage game needed a feral cat for something ages ago, and that cat has stuck around ever since. He’s the most stuck up, proud, proper, and sarcastic cat in the game. And I honestly just made him (maybe all cats?) capable of conversation so long as you know how to talk to them. No magic required, and it was a good moment when a sleeper NPC just started a one sided conversation with that cat. You don’t really need an Acanthus to throw weird things at your mages.
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Feb 12, 2020 14:24
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What supplements were there for Geist 1 edition / are the for 2ed? Not adventures or premade characters, ones that contain crunch.
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Feb 12, 2020 15:03
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Ataxerxes posted:What supplements were there for Geist 1 edition / are the for 2ed? Not adventures or premade characters, ones that contain crunch. WoD: Book of the Dead covered the Underworld, but 1E petered out pretty quickly. 2E has Memento Mori, which contains new Haunts and Momentos, but I don't think it's available for regular purchase yet. That's it, I believe.
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Feb 12, 2020 15:28
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That Old Tree posted:WoD: Book of the Dead covered the Underworld, but 1E petered out pretty quickly. 2E has Memento Mori, which contains new Haunts and Momentos, but I don't think it's available for regular purchase yet. That's it, I believe. And also the Underworld has changed significantly enough in 2e that Book of the Dead is pretty useless. But yeah, Geist 1e came out right at the tail end of CCP/White Wolf even vaguely supporting tabletop publishing and before Onyx Path spun off and licensed the IPs back, so it never got much support. In fact, IIRC, the Gen Con where Geist 1e released was the same Gen Con where Rich Thomas took most of the long-time freelancers out to a very nice dinner and told us all not to expect much more work from White Wolf. Then OPP spun up a couple of years later and started publishing again, but Geist sort of got lost in the shuffle. 2e, of course, hasn't really been out long enough to get sourcebooks, except Memento Mori which, yeah, is only out to Kickstarter backers.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:04
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Memento Mori also whips insanely hard so I'm excited for non-backers to get a look at it. Tons of cursed object bullshit, rad new Manifestations. Real strong bonus content feel.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:25
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Memento Mori also whips insanely hard so I'm excited for non-backers to get a look at it. Tons of cursed object bullshit, rad new Manifestations. Real strong bonus content feel. I'm really glad to hear it! I didn't have a hand in it, but I had every confidence that Vera would knock it out of the park.
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Feb 12, 2020 16:47
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Speaking of ghosts, I'm having my mortal group go into a house that's haunted by a dead wife - the husband, a wizard, also dead, is in the basement, which is guarded by a magic seal (they need to get a book off of him). The corpse of the wife is upstairs in a bedroom, so I wager to get rid of her they need to bury the body, but I'm looking for suggestions on stuff they can be doing in this house in the meantime - stuff to find, small puzzles and such to discover. Not really sure how magic works in this game (from what I understand, it's 'whatever the heck you want, wizards are wacky') but I figure once the wife is taken care of, the magical seal finally fizzles as its the last sort of remnant of the wizard's will. Edit: Come to think of it I could do something, like 'the wife's brooch, the last present from her husband, was taken', as I've actually mentioned a hedge wizard they've met knows 'location spells', whatever that means in this context, allowing them to hunt it down to put her spirit to rest, but it's a long shot if they remember that the guy can do those. Morpheus fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 16:51
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That Old Tree posted:WoD: Book of the Dead covered the Underworld, but 1E petered out pretty quickly. 2E has Memento Mori, which contains new Haunts and Momentos, but I don't think it's available for regular purchase yet. That's it, I believe. Thanks!
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Feb 12, 2020 17:25
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GimpInBlack posted:I'm really glad to hear it! I didn't have a hand in it, but I had every confidence that Vera would knock it out of the park. Vera's great, working with her on Scion has been real fun.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:21
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GimpInBlack posted:I'm gearing up to run Mage starting next week, but this post is seriously making me want to switch to Changeling. Or at least pray that I end up with at least one Acanthus in the group. The thing with Mages is that granted that it certainly takes awhile to get there, eventually they can do everything better than everyone else. With Death 5 they do Death/Ghost stuff better than Sin-Eaters, Spirit lets them do Spirit stuff better than Werewolves, etc. I admit that at some point I'd like to run (or just play in) a mixed group/crossover thing with, say, a Beast, a Changeling, a Demon, a Sin-eater and a Werewolf. Each of those splats has access to an aspect of reality that's kind of difficult for other not of that splat to get into/deal with. No idea what could bring those five together, but it seems like it'd be a weird cross-cultural RP experience.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:29
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Everyone posted:The thing with Mages is that granted that it certainly takes awhile to get there, eventually they can do everything better than everyone else. With Death 5 they do Death/Ghost stuff better than Sin-Eaters, Spirit lets them do Spirit stuff better than Werewolves, etc. I admit that at some point I'd like to run (or just play in) a mixed group/crossover thing with, say, a Beast, a Changeling, a Demon, a Sin-eater and a Werewolf. Each of those splats has access to an aspect of reality that's kind of difficult for other not of that splat to get into/deal with. No idea what could bring those five together, but it seems like it'd be a weird cross-cultural RP experience. They're together to kill the beast character
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Feb 12, 2020 19:34
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Everyone posted:I admit that at some point I'd like to run (or just play in) a mixed group/crossover thing with, say, a Beast, a Changeling, a Demon, a Sin-eater and a Werewolf. Each of those splats has access to an aspect of reality that's kind of difficult for other not of that splat to get into/deal with. No idea what could bring those five together, but it seems like it'd be a weird cross-cultural RP experience. An asymmetrical PVP game where everyone else just beats the poo poo out of the Beast edit: gently caress, beaten!
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Feb 12, 2020 19:35
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Digital Osmosis posted:
Guess we found the Beast.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:51
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Asymmetric PVP usually involves the lone antagonist being significantly more powerful and dangerous than individuals on the other side though. Whereas Beast's main powers outside their lairs are to be pieces of poo poo only tolerated by authorial fiat. Admittedly, a group of monsters giving superatomic wedgies to a toxic incel shrieking that he's really a dragon would still be cathartic. Just not really challenging.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:03
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Desiden posted:Asymmetric PVP usually involves the lone antagonist being significantly more powerful and dangerous than individuals on the other side though. Whereas Beast's main powers outside their lairs are to be pieces of poo poo only tolerated by authorial fiat. Now I feel dumb for bringing up the idea of a mixed group with a Beast because "piece of poo poo only tolerated by authorial fiat" completely sums them up. It's been a while, but I vaguely recall a thought I had that most of the various monster splats of the WoD served a purpose within the greater ecosystem of the WoD. I think it went something like: Vampires are the shepherds and farmers who grow human civilization, enticing humans to congregate within cities and form complex, inter-related societies. Werewolves are the guardians and mediators of the spirit realm, trying to maintain a healthy balance between the physical world and the world of the spirit. Mages are the visionaries and explorers that attempt to explore the unknown and build a road through which all humanity may attain wisdom and enlightenment. Prometheans are the source of truly new souls, following their Pilgrimages to bring truly new ideas and ideals to humanity. Changelings are the bringers of wonder and inspiration feeding and guarding the dreams of humankind while inspiring it to new heights of creativity. Sin-eaters and the mediators and keepers of the boundary between the living and the dead. As Werewolves are to spirits, so they are to ghosts. Mummies are the Memory of humanity guardians and keepers of the past which must be known to forge a good future. Demons are the renegade agents of system and beings fighting to prevent that system from utterly destroying the good that is present in the name of unknowable and unreachable goals. Beasts... are just rear end in a top hat bullies who mumble about teaching lessons while feeding on others via pain and fear. The should be the darker counterparts to changelings, instilling a healthy fear and respect for the mysteries of the universe that they aren't taken for granted, but... that just never fully comes together. Pretty much it's on the player to choose to play a Beast that isn't a complete, worthless rear end in a top hat who needs to be put down like a rabid dog. While all the splats mostly failed to the above (admittedly idealistic) standards, you can at least see bits of that. If faced with a threat to humanity as a whole, the vampire would (with scheming and difficulty) attempt to come together to fight it lest they starve. Werewolves and Sin-eaters are clearly pretty useful in terms of preventing the Spirit/Ghost apocalypse. Demons are pretty much one of the only things between us and an entity that might well slaughter the lot of us if it has the wrong brain-fart. While Changeling, Mages, Mummies and Prometheans might not necessarily be vital to humanity's immediate survival, you can see that they have something of a role to play. Beasts, it's kind of hard to see how the rest of the world - including other monsters, wouldn't be better off with these things going extinct.
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Feb 12, 2020 23:02
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Everyone posted:Now I feel dumb for bringing up the idea of a mixed group with a Beast because "piece of poo poo only tolerated by authorial fiat" completely sums them up. It's been a while, but I vaguely recall a thought I had that most of the various monster splats of the WoD served a purpose within the greater ecosystem of the WoD. I think it went something like: I've made the point previously that Beasts by their nature are loving up the ecosystem of every other monster and should be public enemy #1 as far as the other monsters are concerned but they aren't because of Poochy Power
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Feb 12, 2020 23:17
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Mummies are just straight-up thieves.
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Feb 12, 2020 23:21
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joylessdivision posted:I've made the point previously that Beasts by their nature are loving up the ecosystem of every other monster and should be public enemy #1 as far as the other monsters are concerned but they aren't because of Poochy Power Yeah, I had to ask Kureig at one point if the Beasts' actions did not explicitly lead to the type of things that Uratha hate (i.e., negative emotions really messing up the Shadow) and indeed the Woofs would not tolerate them for a second if not for author fiat.
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Feb 12, 2020 23:31
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It remains a wonder rediscovered everyday anew that Beast passed muster even through the first draft, let alone to production and sale, where you can find it now even today. They're not even useful as a villain splat your party can kill without having to feel bad about it; they're no fun even to fight. edit: even even
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Feb 13, 2020 00:16
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, I had to ask Kureig at one point if the Beasts' actions did not explicitly lead to the type of things that Uratha hate (i.e., negative emotions really messing up the Shadow) and indeed the Woofs would not tolerate them for a second if not for author fiat. Kill all Beasts is what I'm saying by ignoring them or using them as antagonists
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Feb 13, 2020 00:16
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joylessdivision posted:or using them as antagonists  Crion posted:They're not even useful as a villain splat your party can kill without having to feel bad about it; they're no fun even to fight.  You could be spending that game time with an interesting, engaging antagonist who isn't a brand-conscious abuse elemental. Beasts aren't even fun to hate.
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Feb 13, 2020 00:47
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I would maybe use a Beast as a villain in Werewolf or something, but I can't even imagine doing anything else with them.
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Feb 13, 2020 00:55
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I mean the good news about Hunter 2e is it looks like the "mysterious places" rules in there might rip out the only useful/interesting part of Beast (Lairs) as a thing you can use for monster/scene creation anyway. Soon, Beast will be entirely consigned to the dustbin of history, in every part.
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Feb 13, 2020 01:02
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I always thought Beast was trying to get to the kind of space Vampire is in where the monster is unequivocally bad by human moral standards, but serve as interesting dramatic characters or investigate ideas about how maybe human moral standards are bad, man. But it doesn't really stick bc Beasts are kinda bland and there only characterization is that they're really smug and everyone thinks they're cool. It should have been called Monster and be about ancient monsters awoken from their slumber to possess archetypally similar humans to destroy those humans who are pillaging the dreamlands of monsterkind. Heroes would be random dupes empowered by those sinister humans and told to fight the monsters and let the pillaging continue.
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Feb 13, 2020 01:03
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I would maybe use a Beast as a villain in Werewolf or something, but I can't even imagine doing anything else with them. I bet it wouldn't take much to adapt Gimble from VtmB to a Beast for tabletop play.
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Feb 13, 2020 01:19
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The most infuriating part about Beast (other than, you know, all of the sexual assault) is that there are a handful of good and interesting and dare I say needed ideas struggling for lack of breath underneath all the layers of bullshit. Having a splat built from the ground-up to be multi-splat friendly is a good idea, because there's always that one dude that wants to be a Changeling or whatever in your Vampire game. Having a horrific nightmare spirit parked where your soul used to be and that needs to be periodically fed drips with drama and can spawn dozens of interesting characters and ideas and scenarios. Having a sub-dimension that's also your soul hidey place that you can dump into reality at will is rad as hell. Only Beast proper is bad. So bad that none of those things are worth salvaging.
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Feb 13, 2020 01:22
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Froghammer posted:The most infuriating part about Beast (other than, you know, all of the sexual assault) is that there are a handful of good and interesting and dare I say needed ideas struggling for lack of breath underneath all the layers of bullshit. Having a splat built from the ground-up to be multi-splat friendly is a good idea, because there's always that one dude that wants to be a Changeling or whatever in your Vampire game. Having a horrific nightmare spirit parked where your soul used to be and that needs to be periodically fed drips with drama and can spawn dozens of interesting characters and ideas and scenarios. Having a sub-dimension that's also your soul hidey place that you can dump into reality at will is rad as hell. Correct. Any good idea that Beast has can be cleaved out, remixed and reused as something better somewhere else.
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Feb 13, 2020 01:39
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Badactura posted:I always thought Beast was trying to get to the kind of space Vampire is in where the monster is unequivocally bad by human moral standards, but serve as interesting dramatic characters or investigate ideas about how maybe human moral standards are bad, man. I think it was Dave that mentioned that the original idea behind Beast was literally Dragon: The ______ or something like that. It seems like the idea behind it changed a bit from it's original concept to what we got. Which is kind of sad since going with the original idea would have been interesting and could have fit as one of the many nods to OWoD and Exalted that the CofD has. And that's before you factor in the potential tie ins to Mage. Unfortunately, Beast also infringes way too much on Vampire's narrative themes and is damned near impossible to work into a game without either making someone uncomfortable, defaulting to adding them in as an antagonist since by far and large they're assholes, or in the case of some of the more esoteric stuff Beast brings up requiring one heck of a specialized game due to the nature of it being things most splats would never encounter. The latter of which (Despite seemingly ticking Dave Brookshaw off. Sorry dude.) I still have an issue with. Like, the stuff about the Dark Mother's dimension and all the stuff outside a lair in the supernal is neat and all. But since only a few beings can even reach the supernal it doesn't really mean it's usable in most games you're going to encounter. Stuff like the Underworld and the Hedge/Arcadia are at least easy to work in since literally just about anywhere can lead to them. But the Supernal is pretty much the realm of OP super-entities and slightly less powerful wizards for the most part. So how the heck am I supposed to work the players into reaching this place outside of a game where everyone is a Beast? That being said, I really did enjoy it as a lore blurb. Especially in fleshing out what the Dark Mother possibly is in the CofD. The idea that the Supernal has all these little sections and locales full of entities is rad as gently caress and if there was a splat (outside of Mage) that let you play some sort of inter-dimensional Sliders-esque game i'd be down for that. Edit: I should also add that at least Vampire presents the characters as a hell of a lot more sympathetic. They're trapped in a state where they're liable to mentally degrade into a feral monster if they do monstrous or inhuman things. A fact that was even more obvious in 1e. Of course that would be entirely avoidable since outside of figuring out how to get a handle on their new instincts vampires aren't driven to kill...Except most vampires are also trapped in the whims of a society that invariably tries to push you into being a monster in one way or another. At least most younger vampires realize they've been handed a poo poo deal and end up losing a fight that's personally and culturally stacked against them. Beast's are often portrayed as just straight up self righteous jackasses in the original work. Heck, some of the stuff that got posted here basically comes off as abusers_justifications.txt. Archonex fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 02:40
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Tangential to the Dragon: the ____ chat, I'm excited that the next(?) 2 Scion books to come out are for Playing Dragons, and Mythos ~Gods~.
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Feb 13, 2020 02:50
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