|
Eric the Mauve posted:If at all possible the best thing by far to latch onto for raising your ask is "I have another offer" Best option: you have a comparable or better actual other offer and use it to raise your ask. Doesn't even matter if it's substantially higher. "I have another offer, and will require $X" Second best option: you have no actual other offer but big stones, and, can accept them telling you to pound sand. "I have another offer, and will require $X" Second worst option: You really need to move on, but try and bluff: "I have another offer, and will require $X." "Good luck, go take it!" "err... I will accept your initial offer!" Worst option: "I have another offer for $Z, and will require $X" "How about $Z?" "Uhhhh...." The last one is worst because it means you still don't understand information asymmetry
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2020 14:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
Following on from my previous post, I now could really use advice on how to get myself in to work every day. I'm flying back to stay with family, and my fiance is staying out here for at least four months to finish her master's. She'll be keeping our shared vehicle until she moves. Where I'm staying is out in the boonies- like a 45 min commute to work, so I definitely need a car. Not to mention I'd like to see my friends and stuff. Is there a BFC thread that'd help me figure out my best option, or should it go in a different subforum? I'm flying home in two weeks, so I need to figure this out fast. I'll have family helping me out at first, but I'll need a car soon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
I mean it seems pretty obvious to me you need to buy another car? In which case there's a whole subforum for that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2020 01:12
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:I mean it seems pretty obvious to me you need to buy another car? In which case there's a whole subforum for that. Agree. Buy something for under $5k and be done with it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2020 01:33
|
|
|
Hooplah posted:Following on from my previous post, I now could really use advice on how to get myself in to work every day. I'm flying back to stay with family, and my fiance is staying out here for at least four months to finish her master's. She'll be keeping our shared vehicle until she moves. Where I'm staying is out in the boonies- like a 45 min commute to work, so I definitely need a car. Not to mention I'd like to see my friends and stuff. Is there a BFC thread that'd help me figure out my best option, or should it go in a different subforum? I'm flying home in two weeks, so I need to figure this out fast. I'll have family helping me out at first, but I'll need a car soon.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 01:08
|
|
|
Hey, just want to say thanks for the advice in the OP. I recently applied for an internal opportunity at my current employer (basically going from temp to permanent) and couldn't figure out what sort of salary to expect/aim for. As it turned out (and after reading the OP) all I had to say in response to the dreaded "so what sort of salary would you be looking for" question was "That's a good question and would depend on the broader benefits package". The interviewer from HR immediately started going through bonus eligibility, PTO, etc., including their desired salary range. That let me casually mention that the top of that range was where I was looking. They followed up by offering me the job with a salary about £4k even higher so I have no idea what happened there. Maybe I got played, who cares?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 14:02
|
|
|
Staggy posted:Hey, just want to say thanks for the advice in the OP. I recently applied for an internal opportunity at my current employer (basically going from temp to permanent) and couldn't figure out what sort of salary to expect/aim for. Congrats! I don't think you got played. If you're happy with the outcome that's a win. The higher salary, the benefits, and not being a temp anymore are all fantastic improvements. You're in a better position now as well since you now have a data point for what this company is willing to give you for the work you're doing. This will help you in future negotiations since you'll have a better idea of what salary to expect/aim for.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 14:29
|
|
|
Staggy posted:Hey, just want to say thanks for the advice in the OP. I recently applied for an internal opportunity at my current employer (basically going from temp to permanent) and couldn't figure out what sort of salary to expect/aim for. Sounds like a good outcome to me. For the position I'm currently in (also internal opportunity) the recruiter was militant about getting a salary range (no amount of hand waving dissuaded him) and I didn't handle it very well. Luckily I already knew the people I'd be working with/for and the recruiter bad mouthing me didn't dissuade them. It may just be my company but I've never had much luck not stating an expected number/range.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 14:58
|
|
|
Staggy posted:
Something similar happened to me when I got my second job out of college. I was desperately trying to escape a bad job and was so naive that I thought negotiating would make the new workplace have second thoughts about me -- even though my second interview was literally nothing more than the boss telling me he wanted to hire me and that he wasn't actually supposed to tell me that yet. When he called to formally offer me the job, I said, "I'll take it!" and then the offer letter came in with a $2k bump from the verbal offer. It was a Fortune 100 company; of course they would have a negotiation budget.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 15:21
|
|
|
Ehh live and learn. New grads have very little negotiating power anyway. This thread is all about harsh truths but we should also forgive our past mistakes or lack of knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
PBS posted:It may just be my company but I've never had much luck not stating an expected number/range.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 17:34
|
|
|
PBS posted:It may just be my company but I've never had much luck not stating an expected number/range. Just keep pushing the line regarding full package re benefits, vacation, work from home policies, all the stuff which doesn't have a number but factors into the offer. My final interview at my current position was with VP's who pressed, a number of times, for me to give them a number. One of them sighed and replied with "you're not going to give us a number are you?" I shrugged and said no, which I was told later on was actually a positive sign - they figured I'd stand up for myself in difficult situations. It also meant that it was relatively easy to negotiate up from their offer. My previous employer found out that I had an offer, wined and dined me to try and get me to stay with a new position, more money, etc. The current employer was a long commute (I've since moved, which was always the plan) so I took the former companies offer, added costs for gas/time, and told my current employer that I'd need at least that much to take their offer. Given that I got a 3% raise after 6 months, and a 7.5% raise 12 months after that, I'm sure I left money on the table. It was a 30% increase for a role I wanted to be in, so I'm counting it as a win anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2020 21:26
|
|
|
Staggy posted:They followed up by offering me the job with a salary about ;4k even higher so I have no idea what happened there. Maybe I got played, who cares?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 00:40
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:maybe you should look at another variable Surely you're not implying I'm anything less than perfect? I've only worked at one company and all my negotiation has been with internal recruiters who already know what I make so I'm pretty limited in experience and I know less than them about the ranges etc. That being said I've managed to double my salary after 4 promotions so I'm doing well enough.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 04:23
|
|
|
PBS posted:Surely you're not implying I'm anything less than perfect? Best offers I ever got were when I was interviewing just to practice interviewing, lol.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 06:19
|
|
|
I got a job offer from a state agency. However I'm currently the health insurance provider for my wife who needs surgery. How bad is it too turn this down? Bridge burned if this position opens up again in a year or two?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 08:05
|
|
|
PBS posted:Surely you're not implying I'm anything less than perfect? He means get offers from other companies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 14:23
|
|
|
Goodpancakes posted:I got a job offer from a state agency. However I'm currently the health insurance provider for my wife who needs surgery. How bad is it too turn this down? Bridge burned if this position opens up again in a year or two? The general rule is that if you making a reasonable choice as a reasonable person burns a bridge with an employer, you didn't want to be employed by them in the first place. I wouldn't think it would burn a bridge with any reasonable person. Are you in contact with the hiring manager or working through HR? I'd just explain the situation and say you'd be interested in working with them in the future when your situation changes. I'm assuming you've done your due diligence and are certain that staying at your current job is the only financially feasible way to pay for COBRA or whatever until your new health insurance kicks in, etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 16:39
|
|
|
PBS posted:Surely you're not implying I'm anything less than perfect? yeah you need to talk to other companies, which means you need to look at why you haven't been talking to other companies, which means you need to look at you internal recruiting is so awesome for an employer: they know what you're currently making, they know what your performance reviews have been, they know how to make your life hell right now to take away your ability to stay where you are and decrease the value of your batna, and they know how to get multiple other candidates who are just as bent over a barrel as you are to increase the value of their batna negotiation is mostly a 0-sum game, so what's good for your interviewing employer is bad for you as an interviewing employee and you have continually put yourself in the position to have all these disadvantages it's you, you need to look at you
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 16:42
|
|
|
it's totally fine if you want to stay at your current employer, you should just do so from a position of strength and knowledge
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2020 16:55
|
|
|
Over the next two weeks I have 2 second interviews and 1 first interview for 3 different companies. The pay is different between the 3 jobs, but the highest paying job also has double the commute time, so I'm leaning towards the shortest commute job (which is also the lowest paying). If a company offers me a job, is it appropriate to say something like "I need a week to consider this position, I have 2 other jobs waiting, but if you are willing to raise the pay by $x I'll take it right now"? How do I word it? Or is that not even an option? I don't want to start out looking like an rear end in a top hat. SA Forums Poster fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 14, 2020 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
I'd just focus on making sure you sound enthusiastic about the position. "Thank you for the offer to join Company; I was really impressed with Whatever Bullshit! I'll need a week to evaluate some other offers. I'm excited to join your team, but right now I would need $X in salary or commensurate benefits to sign on. I hope we can start working together soon doing [kickass thing you're kickass at]."
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2020 20:53
|
|
|
My current boss is losing half his team. I was up for either a promotion on the team I’m on or a move to another position on another team. I didn’t get the same-team promotion (it was always going to go to one person who is a great individual contributor, but not a leader), and surprise surprise my boss’ bossX2 was a little surprised that I was taking the other role (vs staying where I am). I had my facts and data in order, and when the SVP asked about risk tolerance I was able to point out exactly why staying in current job was actually more risky than changing roles and since he didn’t advance me to management to help my current team, I was going to go for the new opportunity. I knew my BATNA, I knew my options, and I am ending up in a pretty great position without burning any bridges. Meanwhile current boss is kind of making GBS threads bricks because everyone is leaving his team.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2020 06:55
|
|
|
I should be looking at getting an offer letter at some point this coming week for a new position that I had applied and interviewed for. I'm in a unique situation in that I come with my own health insurance that will undoubtedly be better and cheaper than anything this small-ish company can offer. When it comes down to negotiating the salary, should I leverage this? And if so, what's the best way to do it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2020 01:58
|
|
|
BallsBallsBalls posted:I should be looking at getting an offer letter at some point this coming week for a new position that I had applied and interviewed for. I'm in a unique situation in that I come with my own health insurance that will undoubtedly be better and cheaper than anything this small-ish company can offer. When it comes down to negotiating the salary, should I leverage this? And if so, what's the best way to do it? You can try. But you can also say "I don't need health insurance" and then take it or take it in the open enrollment. I would never consider that as a chip to trade as a hiring manager.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2020 02:25
|
|
|
spwrozek posted:You can try. But you can also say "I don't need health insurance" and then take it or take it in the open enrollment. I would never consider that as a chip to trade as a hiring manager. Agree 100%, and also making not using health insurance a term of negotiation would probably be no-no'd by HR.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2020 04:26
|
|
|
If it's a real small company they may like that but otherwise whether or not the employee has health coverage doesn't come out of the hiring director's department budget but salary does so they won't really care.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2020 03:47
|
|
|
All that assumes that the employer even contributes to health insurance premiums, which they may not. If you don't represent an incremental cost to the employer's health insurance program, you bringing your own insurance is a non-value to the employer.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2020 23:29
|
|
|
I have just received an offer for a new job that I'm pretty excited about. It is at this time an informal offer pending some internal process which is apparently routine. How should I approach negotiating this? For ref I'm in the UK but this is a large international tech company. They are currently offering £58k which is already a big bump in my current pay. My BATNA is relatively strong as I am more than comfortable where I am, but I am very excited about the new opportunity and don't want to mess this up. I have so far spoken to the HR rep when she phoned through the initial offer which I have not yet accepted. Should I ask to speak to her again to negotiate, if so how should I word this? My thoughts: Use this offer to get a counter offer at my current position and use that for leverage (not intending to accept any counter at this point). Approach it where I emphasise I am excited about the opportunity but can they increase the offer - uncertain on how to word this
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2020 23:35
|
|
|
Dwight Eisenhower posted:All that assumes that the employer even contributes to health insurance premiums, which they may not. This is true and many people don’t know. I was bitten by this once. Never again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2020 06:50
|
|
|
Badgerpoo posted:I have just received an offer for a new job that I'm pretty excited about. It is at this time an informal offer pending some internal process which is apparently routine. How should I approach negotiating this? For ref I'm in the UK but this is a large international tech company. They are currently offering £58k which is already a big bump in my current pay. My BATNA is relatively strong as I am more than comfortable where I am, but I am very excited about the new opportunity and don't want to mess this up. I have so far spoken to the HR rep when she phoned through the initial offer which I have not yet accepted. Should I ask to speak to her again to negotiate, if so how should I word this? If you want the new job, negotiate and take it. If you ty to take the offer and turn it into more money where you are now, prepare to not have a job. As soon as your current place know you are looking, they will prepare for your departure. Sure, they might give you a little more money, but then you will see other people starting to pass you in many ways as you are left behind and eventually leave or get pushed out. Most places I have worked have had a “no save” policy. Meaning if someone wants to leave, let the, go. Everyone I have ever “saved” has still been gone within six months of the “save” when someone had an offer someplace else.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2020 06:53
|
|
|
Ask a Manager has a great letter today from a person who negotiated their initial job offer compared to their peers. It's a perfect example of why you should always negotiate. (emphasis mine) Ask a Managaer posted:Five years ago, I was hired in an entry-level role. During the initial employment offer, the company offered their base salary for a starting amount. Since I did my homework on the average salary of the role in this area, I countered with a number closer to the average. The company agreed and I began my job.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 21:25
|
|
|
I'm in the interview process for a role that's adjacent to my profession and I'm wondering whether I should consider a drop in compensation in the absence of an expectation to study for a credential with my free time? Might be part of that conversation when we get to that page at least, there are other things I'll need to ask about in the next round of interviews (ie if I decide I want to continue studying will I be allowed into the student program) but if anyone has anything to point out I'm all ears. I was talking to the hiring manager and he got the first of two credentials in my field before switching to his current role so he'll have a solid understanding of What I'm balancing
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2020 22:18
|
|
|
Hoshi posted:I'm in the interview process for a role that's adjacent to my profession and I'm wondering whether I should consider a drop in compensation in the absence of an expectation to study for a credential with my free time?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:The drop in compensation will haunt you for the rest of your employment at that place. Don't do it. People who make less are perceived as being less valuable, and that bias persists. Thinking about it not, I don't think I would move for less compensation (including my bonus) so what I need to figure out now is how much more I need to leave the good deal I know I got goin for an unknown
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 02:03
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:Ask a Manager has a great letter today from a person who negotiated their initial job offer compared to their peers. It's a perfect example of why you should always negotiate. Sure fine story and all and could those other people for more out of school? Apparently yes. I will say what was their situation though? Did they have parents as a back up? Another job offer? Savings? They might have needed a job. I think the real point is change places to get real raises. Also you are not the same as your peers. I have two guys that were about at the same pay, same grade, one just got 3.3% and the other 1.5% raise based on merit. I love when people know what everyone makes. You can see where you are and how you are valued, if you think it is crap then you leave. Rare thing though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 02:19
|
|
|
spwrozek posted:Sure fine story and all and could those other people for more out of school? Apparently yes. I will say what was their situation though? Did they have parents as a back up? Another job offer? Savings? They might have needed a job. I think the real point is change places to get real raises.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 04:13
|
|
|
He actually doesn't know that. In the article it says it is "likely they didn't negotiate". It is very possible he has better bosses for award good work. When we go through raises each year I see all my peers numbers (12 of us) that they give out. Budget was about 2.4% thus year. Some of them "differentiate" by having a spread of 2.2% to 2.6%. my spread this year was 1.2% to 4.6%. I agree negotiate, especially if you have a batna. Most of the time you don't out of school though. And who you work for from there matters, also matters that you do good work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 14:06
|
|
|
Dik Hz posted:The drop in compensation will haunt you for the rest of your employment at that place. Don't do it. People who make less are perceived as being less valuable, and that bias persists. Only time to even consider a drop in an element of compensation is if the overall package is larger (for example by having a new variable component).
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2020 17:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
I have found myself in an odd position. I got a call back for a job that I had written off as not being selected. What could this mean? We left off by dipping our toes into negotiations but I never agreed to anything, just said that "doesn't sound bad." I'm having trouble getting a clear read on the job though as the posting has two different titles and they weren't explicit during the interview. The number they mentioned last time is low for one job but high for the other, so my question is should I ask for clarity or negotiate like it's the higher paid job?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2020 00:29
|
|
