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Anarchy online is still up, op
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Feb 4, 2020 02:27
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The standard quest system needs to die and tab-targeting needs to die too. Guild Wars 2 had it right (mostly). Outside of gathering or just raw grinding, boring quests for which your only real reward is some lore text and +rep is the most boring part of an MMO and for some reason it still lingers. Keep it to progress a 'main quest' but all the rest should be replaced with either a public event or some kind of instance. Clicking hotbars has gotta end too; we could totally be living in a world where fantasy RPG combat looked like Dragon's Dogma Online if a company was willing to try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITKHcPZ9dw
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Feb 5, 2020 05:29
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A shame we will never see dragons dogma online in the west. It was fun via vpn.
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Feb 5, 2020 05:51
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It's weird EverQuest had a superior questing system to the MMOs that came after it. And yes to all of that.
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Feb 5, 2020 14:32
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Groovelord Neato posted:It's weird EverQuest had a superior questing system to the MMOs that came after it. And yes to all of that. Everquest had both ends of the questing system. Crushbone Belts and other quests like that were just dumb. They also got nerfed hard for some reason even though all they helped with was the 1-20 game. The Epic quests I think will forever be remembered, They were hard, required doing all the current content, and really ranged in difficulty like no ones business. I also recall the story of planes of power being just as crazy, as you toured the planes and killed most of the gods (of course once you kill your god, what do you have to fear after that?). That said, its really hard for game studios to make epic level quests. Its easy to do fetch and bear rear end quests. So we're going to get more of one and less of the other.
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Feb 5, 2020 18:41
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Oh yeah forgot about the belts but I meant in general there weren't people with exclamation points over their heads you kinda had to search em out.
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Feb 5, 2020 19:30
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Its ironic that everquest has so few quests compared to wow But wow quests being activities you did for xp made them pretty different Eq quests did give xp (belts) but most were done for items, and you could get more xp from camping so it wasn't the only way to level up Changes the dynamic so much
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Feb 5, 2020 19:40
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Tab targeting has its place, badly done action combat is awful Not to mention the lag
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Feb 6, 2020 02:59
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PyRosflam posted:Everquest had both ends of the questing system. Crushbone Belts and other quests like that were just dumb. They also got nerfed hard for some reason even though all they helped with was the 1-20 game. I'm not sure why they nerfed crushbone belts but there were "give me 4 bone chips!" quests that were great xp for literal decades until they changed it so you could turn in full stacks for quest credit, and bone chips now stack to 1000 instead of 20 and you can buy them from npc vendors in later expansions (or just camp the skeleton spot in Paineel where 3 or 4 of them respawn as soon as the last ones die) so I kind of understand why that one got nerfed
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Feb 6, 2020 05:31
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please knock Mom! posted:Tab targeting has its place, badly done action combat is awful True, but it's 2020 not 2002.
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Feb 6, 2020 10:25
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Mr. Neutron posted:True, but it's 2020 not 2002. guild wars 1 had better gameplay than 2
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Feb 6, 2020 22:27
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please knock Mom! posted:guild wars 1 had better gameplay than 2 True but it feels janky as gently caress.
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Feb 6, 2020 22:54
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Guild Wars 2 had a mod that was eventually turned into a proper in-game option with the first expansion to use 'Action Camera' which basically turned the cursor into a center-fixed reticle and auto-targeted whatever was highlighted. Basically making the game play like a third-person shooter. And it was basically how the game should have released and all MMOs should do that.
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Feb 7, 2020 04:47
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bewilderment posted:Guild Wars 2 had a mod that was eventually turned into a proper in-game option with the first expansion to use 'Action Camera' which basically turned the cursor into a center-fixed reticle and auto-targeted whatever was highlighted. Basically making the game play like a third-person shooter. And that's the main reason I am playing it, really.
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Feb 7, 2020 07:44
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I'm just catching up on the drama on that Amazon MMO New Worlds From what I've read everyone was/is excited because it's pretty much Star Wars Galaxies, but this whole PvP thing plus sharing towns with other factions has got everyone upset What's the thread's thoughts? Assuming I managed miss the chat like 5 pages ago
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Feb 12, 2020 12:46
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Do you have any links about it? I've not heard of that one.
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Feb 12, 2020 13:02
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bewilderment posted:Guild Wars 2 had a mod that was eventually turned into a proper in-game option with the first expansion to use 'Action Camera' which basically turned the cursor into a center-fixed reticle and auto-targeted whatever was highlighted. Basically making the game play like a third-person shooter. this was great, but unfortunately it released several years late. i played elementalist and early on there was a great build with daggers that was really actiony and would have played amazingly with that, but now elementalists are all about staff, and staff uses a shitton of skills that have targeting circles and it plays real bad with that Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Do you have any links about it? I've not heard of that one. 
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Feb 12, 2020 13:30
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alright, i found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txiYd3lNFEM i haven't really heard about new world before but from my reading it was supposed to be a full pvp game in pretty much eve style, but medieval, as far as player interaction in the wild is concerned. but then in this video they say they've changed their mind. you'll join a faction when you're high enough level and then flag yourself for pvp, and anyone not flagged can't attack or get attacked by players, because anything else they've tried to do "didn't really fix anything". i just posted about this poo poo being solved decades ago in here in the last page or so. and now a bunch of pvp fans are bitter and the mantra of "pvp mmos suck" keeps true, because it's not here nor there lmao
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Feb 12, 2020 13:56
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Truga posted:alright, i found this: Yeah New World by Amazon game studios They have a bunch of Dev blog posts about it, and they ran an alpha for a few months where people bitched about the open PvP enough that they changed to the above system I've been checking it out a little and I honestly don't really know what their core thing actually is. I think it's pvp over the settlements in late game to try and copy Eve sov? Otherwise it just seems to be bumming around collecting 100 bear asses for 50xp because the quest log says so?
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Feb 12, 2020 14:17
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It was supposed to be a pvp mmo but now it's not and it also sucks at pve because not much pve stuff was planned. It's a disaster for now, but who knows what they will eventually do. I'll never get why games that would have been massively popular with one audience decide they want all the audiences even if their game is not built for it. If you want to make a truly great product you're going to get some people who love it and some people who really hate it. That's absolutely fine and far preferable to "everyone is okay with it". If someone's complaint about your pvp game is "it would have been good if it weren't for all the pvp" then they are not your target audience. I've no idea how good or bad the game is, but this makes it seem like they have weak leadership and unclear design goals. Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 15:36
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there was a thread here for the alpha and it convinced me the game would be a dumpster fire no matter how they pivot e: this guy played it the most and has some posts outlining how the old mechanics worked: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3866567&userid=215029 Kaysette fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 15:40
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I'll need to check out the alpha thread So far everything that's been said has rung true with my reading, which is a shame because it sounds like their initial goals were really in the right direction I also read somewhere there were some original founding team members who got booted out due to some internal conflict, and they drove a lot of the "good ideas" but I dunno how much truth there is to that
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Feb 12, 2020 15:46
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Khorne posted:If someone's complaint about your pvp game is "it would have been good if it weren't for all the pvp" then they are not your target audience. I think most of these people are looking for PvP, they just don't want a botched implementation of it. I haven't played New World, so I can't speak for how that game handles it, but in my experience these PvP MMOs tend to suck because they design PvP mechanics to be actively hostile to casual players, ergo people who largely want to play alone or with their friends rather than joining some 200-man strong nerd group where the leader writes manifestos online about how badass they are. I get that some people are specifically looking for that kind of experience, but even in games like these, the bulk of the playerbase will prioritize fun gameplay over anything like that. I don't mean that big factions shouldn't be allowed to exist or do battle, it's more that I think they should be a little limited in their ability to play pubbie bullying simulator (although I might be somewhat alone in that on this forum) Minorkos fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 17:17
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I played the alpha and it was boring garbage where you scampered around samey forests gathering resources to craft into generic gear and it had no interesting mechanics whatsoever except for pvp
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Feb 12, 2020 18:44
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Frog Act posted:I played the alpha and it was boring garbage where you scampered around samey forests gathering resources to craft into generic gear and it had no interesting mechanics whatsoever except for pvp this sounds exactly like eve-o if you replace "forests" with "roid belts" lmao
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Feb 12, 2020 19:20
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Frog Act posted:I played the alpha and it was boring garbage where you scampered around samey forests gathering resources to craft into generic gear and it had no interesting mechanics whatsoever except for pvp This sounds more exciting than 99% of current MMOs tbh
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Feb 12, 2020 19:46
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Have full pvp servers and opt-in pvp servers. Problem solved. I will never understand game companies
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Feb 12, 2020 21:07
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The Spookmaster posted:Have full pvp servers and opt-in pvp servers. Problem solved. I will never understand game companies Lmao this is my take too. Idgi
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Feb 12, 2020 21:09
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I'd rather it was like 50% of the game was non-PvP areas where you can do just about anything the game has to offer and the other 50% was high-risk-high-reward PvP areas where anything goes
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Feb 12, 2020 22:38
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Minorkos posted:I'd rather it was like 50% of the game was non-PvP areas where you can do just about anything the game has to offer and the other 50% was high-risk-high-reward PvP areas where anything goes a) it doesn't split the player base needlessly b) can do both playstyles whenever without making new characters first one is obvious, for the second one, a pvp game isn't going to live or die on grind treadmills like a classic pve mmo, so removing barriers from people wanting to do new things today is just plain good business. split servers is still better than what they're doing tho. 
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Feb 12, 2020 22:54
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I've not played many MMOs personally with full open PvP except EVE, but my friend played ArcheAge right back when it came out and it sounded like they almost got PvP down with their rep system, until they totally hosed it up
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Feb 12, 2020 23:27
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yeah, a lot of games change pvp around when the incredibly loud pve only crowd gets too loud about it. then when everyone who actually liked the game eventually fucks off, they're left with a dead game. pvp is definitely to blame tho i still can't believe eve has lasted so long despite almost every single day there being a new thread about how clicking through warnings about how DOING THIS IS loving DANGEROUS ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THIS gets you ganked and this is completely unfair.
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Feb 12, 2020 23:40
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And it's probably one of the only examples of designers sticking to their guns regarding open PvP, who knows if the game is still around because if it or not... The game is (in)famous for it because of it, even if folk cry and scream about it on a regular basis That said, EVE has been bad for a while now, but it's not because of the PvP
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Feb 12, 2020 23:50
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Maybe it's nostalgia, but I think Neocron back in the day had a decent system that encouraged people to opt in to PvP without forcing it. The main city was a "lawful" zone (PvP disabled, cops zap anyone with bad rep), there were some "semi-lawful" zones like the red-light district (a few cops, mostly at the borders, who only did anything if you shot someone right in front of them), and then a large "lawless" area with all of the high-end PvE, power-leveling zones, etc. Your character initially had a "law enforcement chip" implanted, which fully opted you out of PvP even in the lawless zones. However, it handicapped you a bit and prevented you from using the top-tier loot in the game (which required all of your implant slots, including the one occupied by the LE chip). IIRC removing the LE chip was permanent and a majority of players ended up doing it because min-maxing is a siren song that few MMO grinders can resist forever.
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Feb 14, 2020 05:45
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Almost every good game system is sacrificed in the name of making a profit in the year 2020.
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Feb 14, 2020 06:27
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kaffo posted:And it's probably one of the only examples of designers sticking to their guns regarding open PvP, who knows if the game is still around because if it or not... yeah sorry, i wasn't clear, that's exactly what i meant. most other devs would have broken pvp *somehow* at least a decade ago, and then the game would be another dumb not here nor there thing with 1000 players
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Feb 14, 2020 11:06
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The Spookmaster posted:Have full pvp servers and opt-in pvp servers. Problem solved. I will never understand game companies That doesn’t work. People want pvp so they can gank clueless noobs. If you give the clueless noobs and pve lovers the option they won’t go there
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Feb 16, 2020 19:15
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Vomik posted:That doesn’t work. People want pvp so they can gank clueless noobs. If you give the clueless noobs and pve lovers the option they won’t go there P much. PvP is only fun for most people as gank squads or if they win. Losing at PvP isn’t fun for almost anyone. Gank based PvP is great for goons but lovely for your average player. Skill based PvP is lovely for everyone that doesn’t have skill (goons and most average players). That model doesn’t work.
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Feb 16, 2020 23:59
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Fighting larger groups and/or assholes is the only PvP that satisfies me any more
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Feb 17, 2020 00:14
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Jackard posted:Fighting larger groups and/or assholes is the only PvP that satisfies me any more being in a 50v400 fight and a 200v1000 fight in eve, and won both, i agree lol. nothing else ever came close to those achievements for me, as far as mmo pvp goes
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Feb 17, 2020 00:24
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