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FuturePastNow posted:Plastic people doing manual labor in the shipyard is every bit as dumb and nonsensical as old EMHs mining dilithium with pickaxes. Nah the EMH thing is like an order of magnitude more stupid than anything else in the history of Star Trek.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:56
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No see in the future some people have a passion for grueling manual labor and the post-scarcity society frees them up to do it (luxury space communism naturally entails a centrally planned economy because no one is going to be a janitor by choice, by the way. Those ship yard people worked there because the government made them.)Snow Cone Capone posted:It was just such a non-issue for me it's surprising to see it being an issue for people, honestly. "Playfully bitching about their job/situation" is another one of those human behaviors that won't just disappear post-scarcity IMO, like swearing and doing drugs. Ok, but imagine if you approached the show thinking "Can't wait to see how this episode is going to gently caress up Star Trek today", you might come away with less charitable opinions.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:59
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FuturePastNow posted:Plastic people doing manual labor in the shipyard is every bit as dumb and nonsensical as old EMHs mining dilithium with pickaxes. It was just such a non-issue for me it's surprising to see it being an issue for people, honestly. "Playfully bitching about their job/situation" is another one of those human behaviors that won't just disappear post-scarcity IMO, like swearing and doing drugs.
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Feb 12, 2020 18:59
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As far as I know no one argued that swearing shouldn't exist in the future or that it was bad writing inconsistent with the world, unlike the bad replicators. The argument is entirely about reach. The strictest parents won't let their 10 year old watch a TV 14 swear show (to say nothing of an R rated tit show). Most of us had Trek as a somewhat important childhood influence and some of the kids who could most use it won't have it if it's full of Fucks. And they don't really add anything anyway. Competent writers don't need gently caress to tell Star trek stories
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Feb 12, 2020 19:09
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zoux posted:I get the feeling that the Akira's are BTS crew favorites because they come up so much and also because they made the NX 01 look like one. I know that Starfleet ships have those designations (Connies are heavy cruisers too I think) but I'm not sure I've ever heard the terminology used outloud in an episode Pretty sure the Horatio was described as a "heavy cruiser" in TNG Conspiracy (and also Worf refers to a couple of "frigates"). TheDiceMustRoll posted:i cant tell if you're mocking me or if you think it's funny that Babylon 5 will sit in this bizarre purgatory of being a show that's too unpopular to do anything with but too popular to let go I know this is from ages ago but wanted to clarify that I am not mocking you, nor am I especially amused by B5 specifically being trapped in limbo. I was expressing my disdain for shithead right-leaning people who think that markets will arrive at optimum outcomes because they are driven by rational actors, when examples such as "we're not making any money off of this but we can't sell it because someone else might make money off of it!" exist.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:09
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The Bloop posted:As far as I know no one argued that swearing shouldn't exist in the future or that it was bad writing inconsistent with the world, unlike the bad replicators. I dunno, imagining that line with sanitized language kind of waters down the moment IMO
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Feb 12, 2020 19:10
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The Bloop posted:As far as I know no one argued that swearing shouldn't exist in the future or that it was bad writing inconsistent with the world, unlike the bad replicators. The portion of the audience comprised of “kids who have watched and understood enough of TNG to follow what’s going on in Picard and are also young enough to be in a position where parents don’t want to expose them to hard-R swearing and violence” has to be staggeringly small or downright nonexistent. In this case, reach doesn’t even apply because almost everyone watching the show is going to be 25+, if not older (boomers/gen x who grew up on TOS/TNG are also a big audience here) and if you’re still scandalized by swearing at that age, well  I would argue that it’s a bigger deal on Discovery, a show that could have a younger audience if it wanted to, but it’s still a small portion of the audience when you’re talking about a streaming-only continuation of a 50+ year old franchise.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:21
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The Bloop posted:As far as I know no one argued that swearing shouldn't exist in the future or that it was bad writing inconsistent with the world, unlike the bad replicators. I'll admit I heard the argument a lot more when it first happened on Disco but I've definitely seen people complaining about it in other discussion spaces. But I think your point is perfectly valid for the most part re: childhood influences etc. I'll admit it was jarring at first, but mostly because it was unexpected from a Trek show. I also agree that it's not necessary, but I think it does lend an emotional impact to the scenes where it happens. I think DS9 would have had a lot of swearing if it had had the opportunity  e: I was gonna make a joke about how the Klingons swear all the time but I looked it up and apparently p'tak translates to "you weirdo" lol Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 19:22
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Yeah I don't think it was here but I've definitely seen someone making the argument that in Star Trek we should have evolved past swearing lol.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:39
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I probably wouldn't swear in front of Captain Picard as it could make him disappointed in me.
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Feb 12, 2020 19:41
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zoux posted:I probably wouldn't swear in front of Captain Picard as it could make him disappointed in me. Shut up zoux!
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Feb 12, 2020 19:42
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marktheando posted:Yeah I don't think it was here but I've definitely seen someone making the argument that in Star Trek we should have evolved past swearing lol. double dumbass on that
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Feb 12, 2020 19:43
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swearing in star trek is fine, they did it before it just used to be funny instead of "lookit us we're grownups now!"
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Feb 12, 2020 19:47
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Tighclops posted:swearing in star trek is fine, they did it before it just used to be funny instead of "lookit us we're grownups now!" "Oh poo poo!" once in a movie is different than an unknown number of fucks and tits in a series
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Feb 12, 2020 19:50
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 Levar Burton: the new Spock https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2h9-VdcHvA I don't necessarily agree with his criticisms, I think he's overlooking some things, but I think he does touch on something as a negative that explains why some fans don't feel like it's Star Trekky: the melodrama. Now, I don't htink the acting in the show rises to the level of melodrama, and there are definitely instances of over the top melodrama in every series (Picard-Sarek-breakdown, there are four lights, it's real, it's a fake, William Shatner) but most dialog in trek TV is sober, rational discussion of the problem of hand, or some aspect of our future society. I'm not saying it's bad, or that it's better or worse, it's just, that's how Trek was when we grew up. Picard has a much more naturalistic acting style as opposed to clinical, technocratic acting style of the post TOS shows, and since that clashes with what we're used to, I think that's where a lot of the feeling that the show is "off" is coming from. zoux fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 19:52
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The Bloop posted:"Oh poo poo!" once in a movie is different than an unknown number of fucks and tits in a series Rarely do I believe that something should happen just because it's what Roddenberry would have wanted, but Star Trek should absolutely have tits and dongs Whether it's any good or not is all in the presentation
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Feb 12, 2020 19:56
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zoux posted:
C H E R Y L McFadden
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Feb 12, 2020 20:03
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AntherUslessPoster posted:C H E R Y L McFadden Her irl name is Cheryl Gates McFadden and in addition to being an actress she was also a dance choreographer (she did Labyrinth!) When acting she was credited as Gates and when chroeographing she was credited as Cheryl, so that's where the confusion probably comes from.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:04
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Yeah already educated myself on that topic but boy how confusing this was. Even more than calling Geordi the new Spock.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:06
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Yeah already educated myself on that topic but boy how confusing this was. Even more than calling Geordi the new Spock. Obviously Commander Ryker is the new Spock
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Feb 12, 2020 20:14
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Mylan posted:Obviously Commander Ryker is the new Spock In spirit he is actually the new James R. Kirk
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Feb 12, 2020 20:23
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[quote="zoux" post="502455995"] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2h9-VdcHvA /quote] drat but I really liked the Starfleet uniforms that were specifically created for a single flashback shot
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Feb 12, 2020 20:25
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They remind me of the multiple early TNG admiral uniforms and I kinda hate them. They look real bad in a couple shots where Rafi or Picard is leaning forward and the collar gets all deformed. Rafi’s is better than JL’s because at least hers just has the division color, but I still don’t like the extra line of colored embroidery that runs below the shoulders and on the back. Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 12, 2020 |
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Feb 12, 2020 20:30
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One weird thing: why are there rank pips on both sides of the collar? He's not Admiral Captain Picard is he?
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Feb 12, 2020 20:32
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Snow Cone Capone posted:[quote="zoux" post="502455995"] I actually did not! Best Trek show unis are the late DS9 era ones with the grey shoulders and division colors on the undershirt, best movies are the WoK ones with the flap that you can open for no reason. I have spoken.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:35
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Snow Cone Capone posted:One weird thing: why are there rank pips on both sides of the collar? He's not Admiral Captain Picard is he? I think that’s consistent with the admiral unis in TNG and DS9. I’m phoneposting and lazy, but Nakamura, Nechayev, and Ross all have pips on either side of their collars.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:36
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 Oooh look at her, she's itching to tell Picard he can't save that planet because it'll make the Andorians mad or whatever.
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Feb 12, 2020 20:38
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Snow Cone Capone posted:He's not Dark Admiral Jean-Luc Hyperriker is he? fixed
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Feb 12, 2020 20:38
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zoux posted:
She never liked Picard
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Feb 12, 2020 20:51
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zoux posted:Best Trek show unis are the late DS9 era ones with the grey shoulders and division colors on the undershirt  zoux posted:
Huh, never caught that. MemAlpha doesn't mention anything about the double pips either. Good catch!
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Feb 12, 2020 20:52
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Junkball is my favorite Star Trek turbo nerd.  I think I agree with most of his points.
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Feb 12, 2020 21:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:Admiral Clancy on STP should have been Admiral Nechayev instead I had the sheer loving hubris to think she was, for a moment.
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Feb 12, 2020 21:10
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zoux posted:best movies are the WoK ones with the flap that you can open for no reason. There's a reason: adding a little dramatic flourish as you walk off screen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uyoFpekO9g
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Feb 12, 2020 21:19
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CPColin posted:fixed bless
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Feb 13, 2020 00:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2h9-VdcHvA&t=254s Here's the important part.
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Feb 13, 2020 00:17
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the Commander of Starfleet should be 92 year old Ronny Cox
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Feb 13, 2020 02:26
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One thing that bugs me that I wonder if they're going to address is the 180 degree flip on the conclusion of Measure of a Man.quote:Now, sooner or later, this man or others like him will succeed in replicating Commander Data. And the decision you reach here today will determine how we will regard this creation of our genius. It will reveal the kind of a people we are, what he is destined to be. It will reach far beyond this courtroom and this one android. It could significantly redefine the boundaries of personal liberty and freedom, expanding them for some, savagely curtailing them for others. Are you prepared to condemn him and all who come after him to servitude and slavery? Turns out lol yes and Picard was apparently fine with mass produced synth labourers despite this?
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Feb 13, 2020 02:26
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MikeJF posted:One thing that bugs me that I wonder if they're going to address is the 180 degree flip on the conclusion of Measure of a Man. My guess is that once Data was dead and B4 clearly wasn’t going to be Data 2.0, Starfleet declared the ruling in Measure moot and got Maddox & Co to start pumping out Data clones, and Picard was probably powerless to stop it.
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Feb 13, 2020 02:31
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I didn't read it as a contradiction. It wasn't a ruling that more Datas couldn't be made - it was that Data flat out stated he didn't want to participate in the project, and Starfleet said "you're our property, you can't refuse." We don't know enough about the synths, but we don't have evidence one way or another to suggest whether they had any agency or not. Perhaps a synth could refuse to do something? We don't really know.
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Feb 13, 2020 02:33
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Were the synths they had as labor slaves even sentient? Data's whole deal was that he was a super advanced android that scientists could only dream of reproducing. So if the synths were just mindless automatons, that would allow some Federation bureaucrat to pretend they weren't doing anything wrong.
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Feb 13, 2020 02:36
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