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FuturePastNow posted:the Commander of Starfleet should be 92 year old Ronny Cox Picard shows up to ask for a ship and Jellico won't talk to him until he puts on a proper uniform
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Feb 13, 2020 03:01
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In the brief glimpse the synths seemed at least semi-sentient to me, or maybe 'data with a learning disability'. Enough that they should have qualified as a race to be treated with rights rather than mass produced workers, per the Measure ruling, and at the very least a step along the path to a state Picard was talking about in his speech of a race of sentient manufactured slaves. It's just a change that I hope they'll bring up at some point.
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Feb 13, 2020 03:09
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lol if you think any writer for Picard ever watched Measure of a Man
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Feb 13, 2020 03:21
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Peachfart posted:lol if you think any writer for Picard ever watched Measure of a Man What are you talking about, the main antagonist in Measure is a central plot point for Picard
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Feb 13, 2020 03:26
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Drink-Mix Man posted:What are you talking about, the main antagonist in Measure is a central plot point for Picard Please don't let facts get in the way of someone who's already decided they don't like the show being snarky.
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Feb 13, 2020 03:31
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lol if u think star trek writers ever watched star trek
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Feb 13, 2020 03:32
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lol if u think must make it hard to watch star trek
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Feb 13, 2020 03:34
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Didn't Jurati say that Data-level synths were still 1000 years away? Or was she just talking about the flesh-and-blood part and not the mind?
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Feb 13, 2020 03:40
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Didn't Jurati say that Data-level synths were still 1000 years away? Or was she just talking about the flesh-and-blood part and not the mind? She meant the mind, probably an exaggeration but meant in same way that present day fusion is always 30 years away. She mentions that the flesh and blood host body (so presumably still an artificial brain) would be relatively simple.
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Feb 13, 2020 04:00
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Didn't Jurati say that Data-level synths were still 1000 years away? Or was she just talking about the flesh-and-blood part and not the mind? Yeah she meant flesh and blood synthetics that could pass as 100% human. Though I suspect the "1000 years" was somewhat of an exaggeration. Especially with Daystrom's current level of Artificial Lifeform research and development capabilities, ie: (1) Dr. Agnes Jurati and the Microsoft Solitaire app on her desktop.
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Feb 13, 2020 04:06
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We are going to make Synthetic intelligence and life so much sooner than Trek timeline. I'm talking 10 or 13 and a half years until 70% of the comments and articles you read are written by Synths whose bodies consist only of typing hands and eyeballs. You might ask, "Why don't they just make AI software to do that?" That's the same question the Synths never shut up about.
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Feb 13, 2020 04:09
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lol if u exist
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Feb 13, 2020 04:12
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Peachfart posted:lol if you think any writer for Picard ever watched Measure of a Man it's this, this is the answer. but also those mars data's seemed to be roughly as smart/sentient as a hologram, and those already existed for a long time. come to think of it, the several times in the franchise that holograms turned sentient really looks weird when you look back at how much of a marvel data is supposed to be, and how dumb that makes this romulan conspiracy plot look.
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Feb 13, 2020 04:31
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zoux posted:It reminds me that the original script for What You Leave Behind was originally going to end with a shot of Benny Russell on a soundstage holding the script for "Deep Space Nine" indicating that DS9 and indeed ST as a whole was in fact his imagination and creation. But they rejected it because they worried it would enrage fans. I honestly can't believe they ever thought this was a good idea. In "Far Beyond the Stars", the racist editor says he'll publish Benny's story if he makes it all a dream, and Benny quite rightly says no, that's a bullshit cop-out. And then.. they were going to do it for the whole series?!
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Feb 13, 2020 04:34
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Angry Salami posted:I honestly can't believe they ever thought this was a good idea. In "Far Beyond the Stars", the racist editor says he'll publish Benny's story if he makes it all a dream, and Benny quite rightly says no, that's a bullshit cop-out. And then.. they were going to do it for the whole series?! And then they turned around and did basically the same thing for Enterprise. "These Are The Voyages" is all a holodeck simulation run by Riker while he's dealing with his moral dilemma during "The Pegasus", which had the unintended knock-on effect of allowing fans to claim that the entirety of the show had all been a holodeck simulation leading up to that point because aside from Archer's closing "Space... The Final Frontier" monologue, the last line of dialog spoken by a character seen on screen is literally "Computer: end program." Even Brannon Braga said years later that outside of Threshold it was one of the dumbest mistakes he'd ever made when writing for Star Trek.
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Feb 13, 2020 04:41
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It was no more than the show deserved
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Feb 13, 2020 04:55
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skasion posted:It was no more than the show deserved Nah it's pretty bullshit Manny Coto didn't get to do the final episode after fixing poo poo up in Season 4
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Feb 13, 2020 05:01
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Angry Salami posted:I honestly can't believe they ever thought this was a good idea. In "Far Beyond the Stars", the racist editor says he'll publish Benny's story if he makes it all a dream, and Benny quite rightly says no, that's a bullshit cop-out. And then.. they were going to do it for the whole series?! I think it was just an idea that they spitballed at one time and came to the right conclusion that it's not a good ending for a series for a bout 50 different reasons, not least of which is that it was the compromise outcome Benny only begrudgingly accepted in the episode that spawned the idea. piratepilates posted:it's this, this is the answer. I think the idea with holograms is that even something like Vick is only surface level awareness, he's programmed to talk and interact like he's aware he's a hologram like a chatbot acknowledging it's a bot if queried. Now he's a very advanced chatbot, but he's never shown to have any ambition or desire to grow past his programming. Then you have Moriarty, who is basically a part of the ship's computer which has devoted enough resources to simulate intelligence enough to "defeat Data", and in the process has evolved a kind of sentience over the billions of iterations it's run by the main computer the size of a Galaxy Class starship while in memory storage. It's kind of neat that the season 7 episode where said ship's computer achieves a form of sentience and creates it's own physical form to inhabit can be seen as the third part in this story arc. Same thing with the Doctor really, allow a simulation of intelligence that's programmed to learn (and by extension, have ambition) to run enough iterations and you will eventually get sentience seems to be the idea. The mobile emitter was a massive cop out in that show, I don't care what anyone says. Why that's so hard with an android, I don't know. Maybe the miniaturisation of the hardware is the hard part, or maybe creating a replica of a brain that learns the same way we do instead of having a simulation of an existing personality baked in is the goal. Who knows. That's all canon discrepancies, I guess. All you can really do is take them at their word that there's a difference and it's a tough nut to crack for... reasons.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:02
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It's hard to make a Data for the same reason the transporters don't work on any given episode, or why they can't replicate [name a thing that is scarce]
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Feb 13, 2020 05:04
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MikeJF posted:Nah it's pretty bullshit Manny Coto didn't get to do the final episode after fixing poo poo up in Season 4 Yeah, that was a heap of bullshit. I guess there were no hard feelings there though because Coto got Braga a job on  a few years later after he jumped ship to FOX.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:05
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Drink-Mix Man posted:It's hard to make a Data for the same reason the transporters don't work on any given episode, or why they can't replicate [name a thing that is scarce] Indeed, although I like to think there's always a difference between plot premise and plot convenience. Transporters not working and sparking a problem to be solved in other ways is a premise, transporters being ignored at a crucial moment without set up or logical reason is plot convenience. Dr Soong being a unique genius and research into synthetic life being banned just before they could crack it is still very much a premise (even if I don't particularly like the reason for the premise).
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Feb 13, 2020 05:20
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Lizard Combatant posted:Indeed, although I like to think there's always a difference between plot premise and plot convenience. Also, thanks to Enterprise, Soong had like 100 years worth of research already done for him to give him the final push towards making Data. Because at the end of his little 3-parter Arik Soong goes "you know what, gently caress genetic engineering, I'm gonna research cybernetics." With the implication that he passed his notes down to his kid and his kid continued the work and passed their notes down to Noonien and he was finally the one who made the breakthrough that made Data, Lore, and B4. Then Maddox and Jurati got a hold of that cumulative research and made their own android army that then went bonkers on Mars.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:28
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zoux posted:best movies are the WoK ones with the flap that you can open for no reason. I have spoken. My mom made me one of these when I was in fourth or fifth grade for Halloween, and she and my dad told me that you wore it open when you were off duty, and closed on duty. No idea where they came up with that, but it made sense.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:29
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nine-gear crow posted:Also, thanks to Enterprise, Soong had like 100 years worth of research already done for him to give him the final push towards making Data. Because at the end of his little 3-parter Arik Soong goes "you know what, gently caress genetic engineering, I'm gonna research cybernetics." With the implication that he passed his notes down to his kid and his kid continued the work and passed their notes down to Noonien and he was finally the one who made the breakthrough that made Data, Lore, and B4. Then Maddox and Jurati got a hold of that cumulative research and made their own android army that then went bonkers on Mars. Lol what? I couldn't stand to watch Enterprise after a season and a half (amazed I made it that far), did they at least get Spiner to play this role? e: yes it looks like they did, I hope he hammed it the gently caress up.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:35
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Lizard Combatant posted:Lol what? I couldn't stand to watch Enterprise after a season and a half (amazed I made it that far), did they at least get Spiner to play this role? Yes, Spiner plays Arik Soong. The Augments mini arc in Enterprise was pretty much some of the best episodes they ever did, largely with Spiner carrying them on his shoulders and being a lovable anti-villain for all of it. Though again this was Season 4 Enterprise, aka "Finally Good--Oh poo poo We're Cancelled, Welp" Enterprise.
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Feb 13, 2020 05:37
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Remember how the Augments all wore torn-up clothing for some reason?
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Feb 13, 2020 05:52
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MichiganCubbie posted:My mom made me one of these when I was in fourth or fifth grade for Halloween, and she and my dad told me that you wore it open when you were off duty, and closed on duty. No idea where they came up with that, but it made sense. Star fleet officers are not taxis sir
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Feb 13, 2020 07:02
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Brawnfire posted:Remember how the Augments all wore torn-up clothing for some reason? Khan’s dudes wore it because their planet was a hellhole. Enterprise’s augments wore it because of ratings. 
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Feb 13, 2020 07:44
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Lizard Combatant posted:Why that's so hard with an android, I don't know. Maybe the miniaturisation of the hardware is the hard part, or maybe creating a replica of a brain that learns the same way we do instead of having a simulation of an existing personality baked in is the goal. Who knows. That's all canon discrepancies, I guess. All you can really do is take them at their word that there's a difference and it's a tough nut to crack for... reasons.
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Feb 13, 2020 07:59
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Nessus posted:It doesn't seem unreasonable that they've reached the practical limits of how small they can make a computer by the TNG era, and Soong's big innovation was figuring out how to optimize it enough to create functional individuals who were hosted inside of their own bodies. It seems straightforward, bordering on trivial, to make a human-level sentient given access to the ship's computers. But then it's a projection from the ship's computers. That's basically what I was saying in the rest of that post, yeah. But again, I'm not particularly bothered by it. If the show says the difference between holograms and a Data level android is hard and they stick to it, then it's hard.
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Feb 13, 2020 08:03
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Goodbye Admiral Sheer loving Hubris hello Admiral Absolute Candor
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Feb 13, 2020 09:07
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New episode is up. - Based on previews, I was a little worried this episode would be more treading water as the show continued to setup and expand the cast, but it ended up alright. We got more backstory with the Romulan crisis efforts, JL’s relationship with Elnor was nice (at least at first), and the Cube stuff was alright other than another appearance by Romulan Cersei. Not exactly leaps and bounds in terms of plot progression, but it finally felt like the first real non-pilot episode. - I noticed Soji doing a couple of Data quirks, like the head tilt when she hears something interesting. Nice subtle stuff. - I was skeptical of Samurai Elf Romulan Guy when the character was announced, but I like the stuff about his order being the antithesis of typical Romulan culture and his relationship with Picard adds a nice wrinkle. - Speaking of, Picard enjoying faux-dad life and reading to Elnor was genuinely sweet. - Good to finally see Seven show up. - Looks like we’re actually getting Maddux in the next episode. Solid episode, no real complaints.
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Feb 13, 2020 09:10
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Picard ep 4: Happy Picard in flashbacks! More Romulan worldbuilding! Absolute candor sounds I AM SO FURIOUS AT MORE MENTIONS OF MONEY!!!  Romulans: good at pain and violence, kinda bad at seducing people for secrets. Honestly the borg cube stuff in this episode was pretty bad. I guess at least Soji figured out she's being played. Or at least I hope so after their conversation and terrible Borg flirting ritual conversation. Next episode looks like a lot of fun. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Feb 13, 2020 |
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Feb 13, 2020 09:20
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
I think it’s fine in this case because you’re talking about a freelance ship with no diplomatic weight or contacts trying to gain access to an isolated backwater refugee camp that’s under the thumb of a rogue warlord. Romulan society was never depicted as explicitly post-scarcity to begin with, either.
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Feb 13, 2020 09:39
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I think it’s fine in this case because you’re talking about a freelance ship with no diplomatic weight or contacts trying to gain access to an isolated backwater refugee camp that’s under the thumb of a rogue warlord. Romulan society was never depicted as explicitly post-scarcity to begin with, either. Yea that was a sarcastic comment aimed at the people who will surely complain about it.
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Feb 13, 2020 09:42
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Fun episode, and I liked the new guy showing his skills. I'm prepared to be disappointed when the next episode isn't 40 minutes of Seven running down what's happened to every Voyager character since that show ended. Honestly give me a quick little update on one or two in the next episode and I'll be content.
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Feb 13, 2020 11:08
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Well, better than 3 but still not up to the level of 1 or even 2. Raffi and Rios were far less grating this episode, I'll never find "ragtag crew of hardasses" fresh but it's what we've got so I'll make do. Still digesting it, but some initial thoughts. Nice to see a little of the fallout from the big events people talk about but rarely actually show in a lot of TV with stories of epic scope. But the first laugh of the episode is when Picard first shows up in the Colonialist-Special white linens amongst the grateful coloured folk. Bit of clunky "Now Mr Picard, you're an old stick in the mud who doesn't like children because they get in the way of duty" dialogue, but the rest of the scene was rather sweet. "A promise is a prison, do not make yourself another's jailer" was a very Romulan sounding sentiment. At first I was thought the holodeck scene was re-edited footage with a couple corner set reshoots and ADR they took from the overlong 3 part pilot episode, but no it seems like it was actually the plan all along? Holding their meetings in Picard's study is cute and all, but give me a long table and some high backed chairs any day. Weird, but I'm not complaining. Dr Jurati didn't get to do much except hang lampshades on things, "Romulan warrior nuns? That's a thing?" and "That character trait sounds like it will get annoying." Aussie Legolas... sigh... okay, let's see where this goes at least. Kids love them elves. But can we stop with the fake-outs now that (presumably) the whole team is together, it's pretty stale to keep pulling the "no I will not help you... wait... okay I will help you" schtick. Especially didn't need Picard deliberately provoking a violent confrontation, how else did he see that going?! Speaking of stale... gently caress off already with this sexy sister incest poo poo. Cube plot didn't go anywhere this ep. Bit of a space battle with a (minimum)130 year old bird of prey and the useless tactical hologram was goofy, but whatever it's a bit of fun. Over all it was alright, but all very... obvious and on the nose in parts? I know that's also very Star Trek, but it usually favoured clarity and a certain directness to get the whole audience (including a lot of kids) on the same level so that the actual point of the episode, a moral dilemma, could be considered without ambiguity as to the basic facts. In a show that's clearly decided to eschew reaching a younger audience with quite a bit of swearing, sex and violence (which is fine) they can probably afford aim a little higher is all.
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Feb 13, 2020 11:37
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Yea that was a sarcastic comment aimed at the people who will surely complain about it. Lol, no one has some blanket dislike of money in any context you nitwit.
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Feb 13, 2020 12:12
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Lizard Combatant posted:Lol, no one has some blanket dislike of money in any context you nitwit. lol what thread have you been reading
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Feb 13, 2020 12:27
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:lol what thread have you been reading This one. You can disagree with people without having to make poo poo up. In a thread of questionable takes, literally no one has managed to say that non Federation races don't use money.
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Feb 13, 2020 12:32
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