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I mean all you really need to do is follow the vicious political discourse in the US media, heck even downright to impeaching the sitting president. At the same time China blocks all internal critique which directly led to a spread of a virus that will probably kill us all before summer. Quote me when Xi gets impeached.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:30
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Reflexive anti-Americanism is a sensible position, where it gets stupid is assuming that anyone else against America is automatically therefore good.
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Feb 15, 2020 04:33
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Fojar38 posted:I really don't know how to make it any clearer without making it overly simplistic. US allies trust the US enough to pass responsibility for military deterrence off to the US nearly entirely. Having the US as a big strong muscle-daddy that can kick anyone's rear end in exchange for giving up a degree of sovereignty to the USA in the military and intelligence domains is a really really good deal. Such a good deal that the US is getting annoyed with everyone for giving too much responsibility to the Americans. i was very surprised to see someone from a Baltic state basically saying all this to explain why they were opposed to increasing EU military unity/coordination. in the DnD EU thread they just straight said "when it comes to self defense against Russia, I'd rather depend on America to do it than risk giving the Germans any more power."
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Feb 15, 2020 04:37
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Having a conversation with a Chinese (citizen) coworker about this topic, and at first he did the reflexive "but the NSA" but pretty much as soon as I said "yeah we do a bunch of shady garbage too, gently caress the NSA, gently caress Trump, blahblah" he kinda blinked like realizing where he was and let out probably years of bad things pent up in his head about the CCP. of course this is a highly educated guy who left and not random wumao but it was crazy how fast it flipped from the programming to the real feelings once he saw some good old fashioned american government bashing
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Feb 15, 2020 04:39
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GotLag posted:Reflexive anti-Americanism is a sensible position, where it gets stupid is assuming that anyone else against America is automatically therefore good. If the worlds number one power says something its natural to believe the motive is retention of that power
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Feb 15, 2020 04:47
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Squalid posted:i was very surprised to see someone from a Baltic state basically saying all this to explain why they were opposed to increasing EU military unity/coordination. in the DnD EU thread they just straight said "when it comes to self defense against Russia, I'd rather depend on America to do it than risk giving the Germans any more power." Yeah this is the other advantage the US has in this regard. Being in North America it usually can't be credibly argued that they have territorial ambitions and so in places like Europe it's easy to agree to just let the guys from across the ocean handle defense rather than "those fuckers who have/want our poo poo"
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Feb 15, 2020 04:49
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Fojar38 posted:My point is that not all countries behave the same. Tankies and totalitarian apologists like to pretend that they do, which is the entire point of the "but America" arguments, yet no Canadians/Europeans/Australians genuinely consider the United States a security threat, certainly not to the degree that it would be a risk to use American technical infrastructure, despite the fact that the USA has demonstrated the ability to literally blow up nuclear centrifuges using cyberwarfare. I don't even disagree (although I think I'm much more uncomfortable with the way the NSA acts than you) but the problem is, the line of reasoning is counterproductive because it plays exactly into the type of arguing that benefits tankies. Think about how it's going to be read, what is your actual conclusion here besides "America isn't as bad as China"? All this accomplishes is moving the conversation to "but America" which is exactly what you should be trying to avoid if you want to actually criticize a totalitarian party that is not arguing in good faith to begin with. The only winning move is really d0s posted:Having a conversation with a Chinese (citizen) coworker about this topic, and at first he did the reflexive "but the NSA" but pretty much as soon as I said "yeah we do a bunch of shady garbage too, gently caress the NSA, gently caress Trump, blahblah" he kinda blinked like realizing where he was and let out probably years of bad things pent up in his head about the CCP. of course this is a highly educated guy who left and not random wumao but it was crazy how fast it flipped from the programming to the real feelings once he saw some good old fashioned american government bashing It's also the right, honest position. Fojar38 posted:Yeah this is the other advantage the US has in this regard. Being in North America it usually can't be credibly argued that they have territorial ambitions and so in places like Europe it's easy to agree to just let the guys from across the ocean handle defense rather than "those fuckers who have/want our poo poo" BrainDance fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 04:55
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I dont think the United States has territorial ambitions in SE Asia. Vietnam for instance seems to believe China has more eyes on its territory than us.
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Feb 15, 2020 05:00
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Does America even have any outstanding territorial disputes? I can't think of any, while I'm not sure China has a neighbor with whom it doesn't. Every country bordering the South China Sea, obviously. Plus India; I think Bhutan has an officially established border with China but the Chinese just keep on building roads through places they agreed were Bhutanese; Russia only ended theirs by just signing over a bunch of islands in the dividing river. I guess they don't have any current or recent arguments with North Korea and the 'stan countries to the west. Not a great ratio.Despera posted:I dont think the United States has territorial ambitions in SE Asia. Vietnam for instance seems to believe China has more eyes on its territory than us. The 9-dash line explicitly claims Vietnamese territory, and Chinese naval and para-naval ships routinely carry out or protect extractive industries in their EEZ.
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Feb 15, 2020 05:55
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Akratic Method posted:Does America even have any outstanding territorial disputes? Technically, the US has an ongoing territorial dispute with Canada over an uninhabited island near Maine.
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Feb 15, 2020 06:00
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Akratic Method posted:Does America even have any outstanding territorial disputes? I can think of a pretty big one. 
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Feb 15, 2020 06:02
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Despera posted:I dont think the United States has territorial ambitions in SE Asia. Vietnam for instance seems to believe China has more eyes on its territory than us. They have ambitions, but it's not for territory to incorporate directly into the United States of America
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Feb 15, 2020 06:04
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Akratic Method posted:Does America even have any outstanding territorial disputes? (john titors back into this thread) militant white nationalist secessionists are going to/have already seize(d) federal parklands for their climate apocalypse prepper compounds and local police forces are actively involved in supporting this
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Feb 15, 2020 06:06
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:(john titors back into this thread) militant white nationalist secessionists are going to/have already seize(d) federal parklands for their climate apocalypse prepper compounds and local police forces are actively involved in supporting this Fffffff. . . you got a good article? That sounds equal parts fascinating and terrifying.
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Feb 15, 2020 06:18
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Blistex posted:I can think of a pretty big one. “Outstanding”
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Feb 15, 2020 06:49
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Blistex posted:Fffffff. . . you got a good article? That sounds equal parts fascinating and terrifying. wait six months
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Feb 15, 2020 06:54
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BrainDance posted:I don't even disagree (although I think I'm much more uncomfortable with the way the NSA acts than you) but the problem is, the line of reasoning is counterproductive because it plays exactly into the type of arguing that benefits tankies. Think about how it's going to be read, what is your actual conclusion here besides "America isn't as bad as China"? All this accomplishes is moving the conversation to "but America" which is exactly what you should be trying to avoid if you want to actually criticize a totalitarian party that is not arguing in good faith to begin with. The whole point of "But America" arguments is attempting to normalize the toxic behavior of authoritarian regimes like the ones that run China and Russia. To a certain extent the specifics of the "But America" arguments do need to be addressed, because if you concede "Yes America acts the same way but so what" then you have implicitly accepted their nihilistic worldview where all that matters is raw power and hence CCP actions to obtain as much of it as possible are justified. Tankies aren't even the first to do this. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan essentially pioneered this form of extreme cynicism as a means of propaganda. The whole idea is that if you've dragged everyone else into the poo poo with you then you no longer need to explain to them why you stink.
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Feb 15, 2020 06:55
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:wait six months 
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Feb 15, 2020 06:55
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Shaocaholica posted:“Outstanding” There is nothing "exceptionally good" about the plight of First Nations people.
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Feb 15, 2020 06:56
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i was trying to track down a news article i read earlier today about the latest upswing in this kind of regionalist bullshit and instead just found a bunch of much older articles describing the same nightmare.
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Feb 15, 2020 06:59
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor
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Feb 15, 2020 07:00
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Chomp8645 posted:Never forget Brazilian garbage-fired pizza. Is that a weird euphemism for some sex-stuff?
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Feb 15, 2020 08:09
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动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
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Feb 15, 2020 08:26
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The North Tower posted:动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 same
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Feb 15, 2020 08:27
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I concur.
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Feb 15, 2020 08:35
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The North Tower posted:动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 Posted on my Facebook wall.
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Feb 15, 2020 08:39
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:wait six months  
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Feb 15, 2020 12:58
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The North Tower posted:动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 this, but unironically
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Feb 15, 2020 13:05
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The North Tower posted:动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
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Feb 15, 2020 13:26
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The main difference between US surveillance and Chinese surveillance is that if Huawei were a US company they would be required to spy on their customers and store all their metadata for 3+ years, to be given to the government pending an unaccountable court order from a secret court. Brazen, lawful, capitalist surveillance, instead of brazen, secret communist surveillance.
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Feb 15, 2020 14:52
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As was probably mentioned before in the thread, the fact that Canada is considering Huawei after what Huawei did to Nortel is beyond stupid.
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Feb 15, 2020 15:09
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It is really worrying how many people here have Huawei phones honestly. They give them out like candy though.
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Feb 15, 2020 15:24
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The North Tower posted:动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 New thread title, please?
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Feb 15, 2020 15:37
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Has anyone heard of Pangzai, the Chinese peasant farmer who chugs beers tornado style and can break bottles with one hand? I’m worried about him because he keeps mentioning “I want to show what real peasant life is,rather than the propaganda films”. Is he at risk for being Dissapeared?
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Feb 15, 2020 16:57
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:As was probably mentioned before in the thread, the fact that Canada is considering Huawei after what Huawei did to Nortel is beyond stupid. TBF they were pwned at least partially because they were already a shambling corpse. That's also why no one even noticed for nearly a decade.
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Feb 15, 2020 17:02
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chinese hair cave posted:Has anyone heard of Pangzai, the Chinese peasant farmer who chugs beers tornado style and can break bottles with one hand? I’m worried about him because he keeps mentioning “I want to show what real peasant life is,rather than the propaganda films”. Is he at risk for being Dissapeared?
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Feb 15, 2020 17:05
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oohhboy posted:Death rate is currently at 2% "Officially" in China. Hospitalisation low ball is 10+% last checked. On the Japanese cruise ship the mortality is 0% and serious case rate around 5%.
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Feb 15, 2020 17:06
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:On the Japanese cruise ship the mortality is 0% and serious case rate around 5%. One of the big dangers of this thing is that it takes its sweet time killing
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Feb 15, 2020 17:25
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Akratic Method posted:Does America even have any outstanding territorial disputes? There are a few, but you can't think of them because nobody on either side really gives a poo poo. You know that island that Canada and Denmark dispute, but the dispute is someone goes and replaces the flag occasionally, and leaves a bottle of liquor as a gift for the person on the other side going to change the flag next? They're all like that. Whereas every country in East Asia has a whole raft of border disputes and is extremely loving mad about them, propagandizing them in school, putting the foreign territory on their maps, etc. Japan has the Kurils, both Koreas dispute the existence of the other Korea plus Dokdo and Ieodo and probably others, China claims territory in almost all their neighbors, Taiwan claims all of China, everyone around in the South China Sea claiming each other's poo poo (though nobody has the sheer balls of China to just claim literally all of it), on and on.
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Feb 15, 2020 18:28
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Grand Fromage posted:Taiwan claims all of China 
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Feb 15, 2020 19:26
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