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Which bullshit in particular? There’s kind of a lot packed into that paragraph.
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Feb 15, 2020 02:49
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Pollyanna posted:But my goal isn't to use the house as a financial vehicle or investment, it's to have a place to live in where I don't have to worry about constantly paying rent and not having to depend on dipshits to make repairs or let me keep just one cat. I've heard all sorts of horror stories about people using houses as a way to make money and then getting beefed circa 2008 (e.g. my parents, to an extent). If I'm just trying to live, am I opening myself up to that same bullshit? There's a lot going on in your post, that's all I have to say. You're gonna have to constantly worry about paying rent or a mortgage every month unless you have a few hundred thousand Washingtons ready to spend.
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Feb 15, 2020 07:15
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Inner Light posted:I'm finding it hard to commit to buying what would be my first home on my own. I'm currently renting a shared 2BR1BA with 1 roommate and pay ~$700/mo for my half. I'm a single income buyer, although I do have a "tenant" in my longtime gf so that was a fairly significant factor. For me it came down to I knew I wanted to be in this city for at least 5 more years, I have a stable and decent paying job. I am very involved in my hobby here. I own cars and was tired of renting a garage several blocks away to store at least 1 of them. Owning a home was a big decision for me, but ultimately the value of having a place of my own that I could finally "invest" in was worth it. I have tons of space, a permanent garage (to do my own car work) and I have a home gym instead of paying that monthly fee. My gf pays me rent every month and we split other costs so it basically comes out at or maybe even a little less what I was paying before in rent. Granted I bought the home knowing I may not always be able to rely on my gfs rent to help cover.
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Feb 15, 2020 07:52
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Buying isn’t that great, don’t actively talk yourself into it. If you buy you’re not paying rent forever but you’re paying mortgage for 30 years then taxes and repair/ maintenance bills forever. If you rent during the same period you’ll have a huge pile of money compounding as investments that didn’t go to down payment and taxes/repairs. And you’ll be freer to move to a cool new opportunity elsewhere, and/or travel all over longterm in retirement. Buying has advantages but “not throwing money away” is a really really bad reason to buy. If you like your rental and the calculations show you’re better off renting then keep renting and invest the remainder. Renting has advantages too, real ones. You can absolutely rent entire houses and live alone if that appeals.
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Feb 15, 2020 15:32
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When you use those rent vs buy calculators bear in mind they assume you’re investing your savings from renting into the market at 6-8% average gains. So while yes you would own a house after 30 years the comparison isn’t owning a house vs not owning a house, it’s owning a house vs having giant stacks of cash you’ve saved up. That said, I own and am happy to do so because there’s reasons beyond finances for home ownership.
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Feb 15, 2020 16:44
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Summit posted:When you use those rent vs buy calculators bear in mind they assume you’re investing your savings from renting into the market at 6-8% average gains. I’m not doing this at all. The savings are just chilling in a savings account in BOFA. Should I be buying stocks with them or something? quote:
Oh, definitely. I really like the idea of a place where I don’t have to depend on idiot landlords who can’t do proper maintenance or insulate a drat floor, or a place where I can have as many cats as I want. It’s just a very scary step.
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Feb 15, 2020 17:21
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Pollyanna posted:I’m not doing this at all. The savings are just chilling in a savings account in BOFA. Should I be buying stocks with them or something? Yes. Any money beyond your "gently caress you" savings should be in an investment vehicle earning you money. Pretty much everyone agrees. Here's the goon thread. The short version is that your budget should go something like this:
Where you put saving for your downpayment and investing in your house will move up or down in priority based on how much you want to own versus rent (renting/owning in many places works out about even in terms of financial viability so you do you). "gently caress you" savings should be what you need to live on for 6-12 months if you suddenly lose your job. I personally, am terrible at the "stocks or something" stage, but that doesn't mean you should follow my bad example. LLSix fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 17:51
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LLSix posted:Where you put saving for your downpayment and investing in your house will move up or down in priority based on how much you want to own versus rent (renting/owning in many places works out about even in terms of financial viability so you do you). At least I have some amount of personal agency with owning, since I can just get things fixed and don’t have to lose out on 90% of the rental market because of my cat. quote:
My approach so far has been: - Contribute to 401k to the matching limit my employer provides, I have not done the math on how much this ends up being in the end - Pay off credit card bills immediately - Here, I used to contribute to my Roth IRA, but the stock markets are going to collapse or at least tank some time soon and I’m too smart to put my money in such a volatile vehicle like the stock market - Rest of money goes to BOFA savings account where nothing can touch it or take it away, because the world cannot be trusted to not suddenly dump tens of thousands of dollars in emergency costs on me for no good reason Probably one of the main reasons I’m not ready to buy yet.
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Feb 15, 2020 17:58
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Pollyanna posted:At least I have some amount of personal agency with owning, since I can just get things fixed and don’t have to lose out on 90% of the rental market because of my cat. Bolded the part you really need to reverse. If you're so sure about that, you're a super genius investor and should be shorting the market and making riches. Since you're not, and in fact no one is, don't time the market. (unless you're specifically saving for something in the near future and therefore stability is more important than average gains, like a down payment given that it's this thread)
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Feb 15, 2020 18:04
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Pollyanna posted:- Contribute to 401k to the matching limit my employer provides, I have not done the math on how much this ends up being in the end The current personal contribution to your 401k for the 2020 fiscal year is $19,500. This is the amount you want to be contributing. I've been self-employed for the last three years, so I got the next bit wrong and I'm sorry about that. The total of you and your employer's contribution can go up to $57,000. That works out to the employer needing to contribute more than $37,500 to your 401k before it impacts how much you can contribute. Unless you make a crazy amount of money and your employer matches more than the standard 6-10%, you can safely ignore their contribution. You should be aiming to put $19,500 into your 401k for the 2020 fiscal year. LLSix fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 18:14
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I'm not 100% committed to buying yet (though I'd love to if the time and place is right), so it's fine if I'm not explicitly saving for a down payment. But the stock market is capitalism, and capitalism is not to be trusted. If you need a single sheep to survive by the time you turn 55, you don't keep that sheep next to an extremely hungry wolf. But fine. I maxed out my IRA contributions for 2019 and 2020, now. I just hope this truly, truly holds. LLSix posted:The current personal contribution to your 401k for the 2020 fiscal year is $19,500. This is the amount you want to be contributing. Last I heard, the conventional wisdom is to contribute to your 401k up to and no further than the point where your employer will match it. Is that no longer the case? Is the idea that the % of 401k saving should be whatever % gets me to $19,500 or the current year's limit now? This is getting off-topic, anyway. I do want to own someday, but not in the fuckin' metro Boston area. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 18:17
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Quote is not edit, but since I've got this post anyways. Is it better to pay cash for a house if you can, or should you take out a mortgage and bet on average returns being higher than what you lose to the mortgage? LLSix fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 18:19
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Pollyanna posted:- Here, I used to contribute to my Roth IRA, but the stock markets are going to collapse or at least tank some time soon and I’m too smart to put my money in such a volatile vehicle like the stock market If you don't have a lot of savings, this is kind of all that you can do for your savings plan, but if you do have a lot of savings (> 3-6 months of your expenses) it probably isn't a great idea to put all of your savings in a savings account. Savings account interest rates don't beat inflation, so by putting all of your savings in a savings account, you are effectively slowly losing money. Unfortunately, to be able to effectively save for retirement, you will have to accept some risk. I think you are exaggerating the risk though--maybe you spend a lot of time browsing the C-SPAM forum on this site? For most people, if they can afford to do it, it really makes sense for them to put as much money in tax-advantaged/tax-deferred government savings accounts like IRAs & 401ks as they can and to invest that money in index funds. edit: Pollyanna posted:But the stock market is capitalism, and capitalism is not to be trusted. If you need a single sheep to survive by the time you turn 55, you don't keep that sheep next to an extremely hungry wolf. If you are ideologically opposed to investing for your retirement, then don't do it. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 18:20
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Pollyanna posted:Last I heard, the conventional wisdom is to contribute to your 401k up to and no further than the point where your employer will match it. Is that no longer the case? 1) Contribute to your 401(k) up to your employers match. 2) Contribute to a Roth IRA until it’s maxed. 3) Contribute more to your 401(k) until you reach the limit, currently something like $19500. 4) Whatever, most people won’t get to this step.
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Feb 15, 2020 18:56
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Leaving aside the philosophy discussion, your medium-term savings should at least be in a high-yield savings account at like 1.8% and not in BofA making 0.05%.
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Feb 15, 2020 19:01
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Academician Nomad posted:Buying isn’t that great, don’t actively talk yourself into it. If you buy you’re not paying rent forever but you’re paying mortgage for 30 years then taxes and repair/ maintenance bills forever. If you rent during the same period you’ll have a huge pile of money compounding as investments that didn’t go to down payment and taxes/repairs. And you’ll be freer to move to a cool new opportunity elsewhere, and/or travel all over longterm in retirement. Buying is a 15-30 year investment that has financial advantages even in a good case 10% YoY scenario (no inflation considered) when considering compound interest of stocks. The real variable in this is that you take more risk putting money into a single property. But that risk can also lead to a really good return. ntan1 fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 19:28
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silence_kit posted:If you don't have a lot of savings, this is kind of all that you can do for your savings plan, but if you do have a lot of savings (> 3-6 months of your expenses) it probably isn't a great idea to put all of your savings in a savings account. Savings account interest rates don't beat inflation, so by putting all of your savings in a savings account, you are effectively slowly losing money. Fine. Then the question is where the rest of it goes. quote:Unfortunately, to be able to effectively save for retirement, you will have to accept some risk. I think you are exaggerating the risk though--maybe you spend a lot of time browsing the C-SPAM forum on this site? yeah bitch.  quote:For most people, if they can afford to do it, it really makes sense for them to put as much money in tax-advantaged/tax-deferred government savings accounts like IRAs & 401ks as they can and to invest that money in index funds. What, like just putting most of the rest of your savings in a non-IRA Vanguard account and buying as much VFFVX as you can with it? quote:If you are ideologically opposed to investing for your retirement, then don't do it. I am ideologically opposed to people's well-being in their later years being dependent on an opaque, intentionally-confusing financial structure that has been demonstrably proven to be disadvantageous on the whole to anyone who doesn't pull the strings. LLSix posted:Is it better to pay cash for a house if you can, or should you take out a mortgage and bet on average returns being higher than what you lose to the mortgage? Who wants a completely uninformed opinion? Cause I got one! Cash. People fall over themselves to cater to people who can pay cash. Cash gives you an advantage over people who only say they could have the money over time, because you can instead prove that you have the money right now, and that lets you skip lines, gets you top bid on houses, gets you white glove service from realtors, etc. Maybe the financial part of it doesn't quite work out, but the up-front bonuses are clear. Tricky Ed posted:Leaving aside the philosophy discussion, your medium-term savings should at least be in a high-yield savings account at like 1.8% and not in BofA making 0.05%. Should I leave BOFA and go somewhere else? ntan1 posted:Buying is a 15-30 year investment that has financial advantages even in a good case 10% YoY scenario (no inflation considered) when considering compound interest of stocks. This sounds like putting all your eggs in one basket to me.
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Feb 15, 2020 20:26
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Pollyanna posted:Should I leave BOFA and go somewhere else? The advantage is you earn roughly 1.6% interest vs less than 0.05%. The disadvantage is it usually takes 2-5 days to withdraw money, and you’re limited to six withdrawals per month before paying fees. Ally also offers a checking account so theoretically all your money can be instantly accessible. So if it’s “emergency funds” but you don’t think you’ll need the money within a week or so, there’s not much reason to leave them in your local bank.
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Feb 15, 2020 21:00
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Then you can adjust the numbers on appreciation and rent increases for your assumption that property values will decrease
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Feb 15, 2020 21:23
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:The high yield savings accounts people are talking about are (almost?) always online-only banks with no retail locations. The two most famous are Ally (formerly GMAC) and Marcus (Goldman Sachs). This is all correct, except the limit of 6 withdrawals / month is a federal law applicable to all savings accounts, not only the online guys. Interestingly it's to help assure solvency of the bank. https://www.investopedia.com/this-government-regulation-restricts-how-often-you-can-move-money-out-of-your-savings-account-4589978 Inner Light fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 02:25
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Pollyanna posted:Should I leave BOFA and go somewhere else? I personally kept my BofA checking account because they're the most convenient ATM network for me and their online services are good, but I ditched their savings account after realizing I left $4000 in their hands for 8 years and made about $2 total. Pro tip: Download the last few months of statements before you close the account, because you lose access to those PDFs as soon as it's closed.
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Feb 16, 2020 05:48
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Read as much of this topic as I could, put in my first offer on a home today. Wish this lurker luck.
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Feb 16, 2020 06:00
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As my Redfin lurking is heating up, how do you all feel about HOA fees? Condos can be a good deal where I am but if the building is decently nice it seems like $500/mo HOA is not uncommon and if it's a large elevator building I'm seeing around $800/mo. That's tough to bite.Pook Good Mook posted:Read as much of this topic as I could, put in my first offer on a home today. Wish this lurker luck. Good luck!
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Feb 16, 2020 07:25
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We are in the bay area and get thrilled when we see an HOA under $700 at this point. Once the HOA gets north of $900 it starts having a negative effect on price. We looked at one unit that was agressively underpriced by about $100,000; but then found out the HOA was $1499/mo which is equivilent to adding $100,000 to the price of the property, once you look at the monthly mortgage payment. We like looking at multifamily homes because their HOA are sub $500 sometimes. Typically the HOA includes water/sewer/trash which is $250 in my area, plus internet which is another $50 so you're already at $300. Then factor in the cost of maintenance, preventative maintenance, and acts of god which comes out to $300/mo or so at current labor rates. Also if your reserve fund is too low (40-60% depending on your lender) people won't lend for your property when it comes time to sell so now you're praying a cash buyer will come along and pay not too much below market rate. edit: also stuff like repainting common areas more often than every 20 years, taking care of landscaping, etc adds up. if you have a hot tub, gym or other high maintenance item it's going to drive the price way way up. the unit we're bidding on next week, the building (300 units) repainted all the common areas and put in all new carpet two years ago at a cost of about a million buckaroonies double edit: has anyone else wondered why the hell elevator phone contracts in the disclosures cost upwards of $15,000/yr? what the hell. One property manager we saw had an annual salary of $300,000 for ~400 units Hadlock fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 11:33
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I'm not in the US, so I lurk this thread without worrying too much about the fine details you talk about, but I imagine some things are similar. So, "simple" question - how far in advance should I start thinking about buying a place? My rental is up in six months or so but I think my savings are too small to buy somewhere worthwhile before then, so I'll probably renew and keep saving for a while. But are there things I should be doing even now? Can I just wait until the numbers add up and then go "right, time to get started" and move in somewhere a month or two later?
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Feb 16, 2020 12:35
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In the US, “a month or two” is maybe too short. The closing process, which starts after both parties agree to terms, is often difficult to finish within a month, and roughly 8 weeks seems fairly common.
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Feb 16, 2020 14:08
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Hadlock posted:double edit: has anyone else wondered why the hell elevator phone contracts in the disclosures cost upwards of $15,000/yr? what the hell. One property manager we saw had an annual salary of $300,000 for ~400 units Elevator phone contracts are a life safety thing, so it's the 24/7 monitoring that ostensibly drives the cost up. You're supposed to test them all the time as well. Plus it's a specialty thing, so they're probably getting taken for a bit of a ride. Inner Light posted:As my Redfin lurking is heating up, how do you all feel about HOA fees? Condos can be a good deal where I am but if the building is decently nice it seems like $500/mo HOA is not uncommon and if it's a large elevator building I'm seeing around $800/mo. That's tough to bite. Low HOA fees are generally a bad sign. You want a well funded and well run HOA to prevent special assessments when things break. You want them to be able to afford to do all the things Hadlock mentioned in their post. Large buildings will have full time staff, plus you need service contracts on all the major equipment (HVAC and Elevator are 2 examples.) You want them to be able to afford to replace the high traffic flooring with new high traffic rated flooring, or a new roof when the time comes. The HOA fee should have a downward effect on price, but if it's been well run over the years it's all "priced in" so to say and likely a net positive to the actual TCO of owning the place. You will pay a 10% discount compared to your "low hoa" neighbor, but you will also sell it for a 10% discount so who cares? Your low hoa neighbor is playing a game of hot potato with deferred maintenance.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:03
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Pollyanna posted:I am ideologically opposed to people's well-being in their later years being dependent on an opaque, intentionally-confusing financial structure that has been demonstrably proven to be disadvantageous on the whole to anyone who doesn't pull the strings. You're in luck, because the United States has a program called 'Social Security'. Almost half of all retirees depend on it for their entire existence. With pensions becoming rare, and consumer debt skyrocketing, I expect this percentage to grow. You'd be wise not to trust that the benevolent government has your best interests at heart, and supplement what you will get from SS with your own savings. 15% of your salary is a good minimum for what you should be investing in tax-advataged accounts (401K, Roth IRA), and anything that prevents you from doing this should be viewed as a bad idea. If buying a house would involve stopping or pausing this retirement savings, you'd be better renting.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:20
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Pook Good Mook posted:Read as much of this topic as I could, put in my first offer on a home today. Wish this lurker luck. Good luck.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:22
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Pollyanna posted:I am ideologically opposed to people's well-being in their later years being dependent on an opaque, intentionally-confusing financial structure that has been demonstrably proven to be disadvantageous on the whole to anyone who doesn't pull the strings. VBTLX - Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund VTSAX - Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund VTABX - Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund VTWAX - Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund These buy basically a tiny piece of every stock/bond, so as long as overall there are more people / more technology / more productivity over time, you'll eventually come out ahead. If you want Vanguard to do the work of deciding the balance for you (so higher-risk now while there's time to make up losses, lower-risk/lower-reward later as you're closer to retirement), their retirement funds are fine too, and consist mostly of funds like those ones: https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/VFIFX quote:Should I leave BOFA and go somewhere else? HELL yes. If you have access (military relative), use USAA. Alliant is a great national credit union (basically bank but not predatory), though they don't have 2-factor login: https://www.alliantcreditunion.org/ I use Ally because it's a very good regular bank, only downside is no physical branches but I just don't need those. I deposit checks with my phone, no other reason for me to go into a bank. Most/all of those will reimburse ATM fees so you can use literally any ATM. quote:This sounds like putting all your eggs in one basket to me. Around me, decent houses for a starter family (e.g. ~3BD) are going for $1.5m. If those increased as much over time as they have for the past few decades (and so all the current homeowners and real estate agents swear I'm practically guaranteed), they'd be going for (inflation-adjusted) $5-6m in a few decades. There just aren't that many people making enough money for that to be possible. Something will have to change, and I don't know what, but it sure feels like buying at the peak of a bubble. I'm still considering it because you can't reliably time markets, but makes me nervous to be in a high-earning DINK couple and buy something that is the most we can afford. If we can only just afford it, who's supposed to buy it from us? Academician Nomad fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 15:33
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H110Hawk posted:Elevator phone contracts are a life safety thing, so it's the 24/7 monitoring that ostensibly drives the cost up. You're supposed to test them all the time as well. Plus it's a specialty thing, so they're probably getting taken for a bit of a ride. Great info, thanks. My next question is where do you draw the line for HOA fees? I assume the natural answer is “depends on what you can afford”, but at what point does a monthly payment with HOA I can afford become excessive (e.g. $800+ /mo)? Should I evaluate the HOA docs to ensure the money isn’t being misused, like a $300k property manager salary? Side question, does the thread feel like 1BR condos are significantly higher risk vs 2BR when it comes to appreciation or selling time?
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Feb 16, 2020 16:21
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That depends on the area. If it's a city with a big college nearby a 1BR would be no problem.
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Feb 16, 2020 16:25
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Inner Light posted:Great info, thanks. My next question is where do you draw the line for HOA fees? I assume the natural answer is “depends on what you can afford”, but at what point does a monthly payment with HOA I can afford become excessive (e.g. $800+ /mo)? Should I evaluate the HOA docs to ensure the money isn’t being misused, like a $300k property manager salary? This is something your agent should be able to judge for you, but in reality it's a balance between amenities you want and what the hoa can afford to offer. A real estate attorney can give you an opinion on the health of the hoa, which is something you should do as a offer contingency. I am a hard no on hoa's, and never considered a condo, so I am not particularly well versed in judging health vs fee.
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Feb 16, 2020 16:39
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Inner Light posted:Great info, thanks. My next question is where do you draw the line for HOA fees? I assume the natural answer is “depends on what you can afford”, but at what point does a monthly payment with HOA I can afford become excessive (e.g. $800+ /mo)? Should I evaluate the HOA docs to ensure the money isn’t being misused, like a $300k property manager salary? One of the commercial lenders I work with does a fair amount of lending to condo associations, and has for awhile. Talking to him it sounds like $0.60/SF in HOA/Condo dues is a good rule of thumb for what is appropriate. Obviously more amenities means higher dues though.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:06
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tumblr hype man posted:Talking to him it sounds like $0.60/SF in HOA/Condo dues is a good rule of thumb for what is appropriate. Obviously more amenities means higher dues though.  The condo I was renting was 1380 sq ft, which comes to $828 HOA. Even if you gross it down given the lack of amenities, the "shared space" was some poorly lit driveway and walkway, the HOA I believe was like $200/month. Maybe less. Explains why they never had any money to do things like maintain a service contract on the sewage ejection pump or sump pump. Or complained bitterly that I turned on the walk way lights so my wife wouldn't trip and die walking in with its four sets of 2 steps between the road and our door.I remember talking to the HOA chair (aka the sole owner-occupied unit) and he was complaining about how there was going to be a special assessment because they let the sewer pump burn out and it was going to be thousands of dollars to replace it. And they were going to have to raise the HOA fee. Glad I rented.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:32
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Been looking for a home for about a year and have only found two out of say ~50 we have looked at that were close to "The One" for the wife and I. First one was in need of a little TLC but was in a super nice neighborhood, 3 car garage, built in the mid 80's and had a good price but was originally owned by an old smoking couple that probably both passed due to the habit, and the family that got the home just wanted to be rid of it so even though we put in a good offer, the got a cash offer that was a little below but with no contingencies so of course they went with that. A few dozen houses later and we found one that was in another super nice neighborhood closer to us that also has a 3 car, (I really want a bigger garage) a backyard with grass, and a few really nice upgrades while still leaving room for a few more things down the road but overall is fully move in ready. And looks like our offer which was the asking price, was accepted. (75% sure as it is a divorce situation so the Husband and his lawyer ok'ed it, the ex wife as well, but we haven't heard from her lawyer yet which being a 3 day weekend, isn't completely a surprise to me.) So Yay! for financial ruin, but man it feels good to possibly have our own place that isn't an apartment in NorCal. Our current place is actually rather nice, but the rent continues to climb and at the current rate really was pushing us to look harder. I am going to be so relieved when this is over because the search currently sucks up here for what we wanted.
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Feb 18, 2020 04:32
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I have a pile of money I need to move over from my savings account to my checking account prior to closing so I can actually pay for the drat thing. I asked my lender when I should move it over and they say, "Please wait until 3 days before closing to move any money." 3 days before closing is a Saturday. What the gently caress.
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Feb 18, 2020 17:04
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I think the time to move is after they tell you the magic phrase “clear to close”. And if it’s the same bank, account transfers should be instant, right?
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Feb 18, 2020 17:07
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:I think the time to move is after they tell you the magic phrase “clear to close”. I am in Hell.
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Feb 18, 2020 17:09
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Hoodwinker posted:I have a pile of money I need to move over from my savings account to my checking account prior to closing so I can actually pay for the drat thing. I asked my lender when I should move it over and they say, "Please wait until 3 days before closing to move any money." This is why wire transfers exist. You can also get receipts for both sides of it to satisfy underwriters if you want to save the money but it will be a dumb fight with them. They likely mean business days.
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Feb 18, 2020 17:10
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