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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:What are some of the worst title reigns? I assume this is the Brock Lesnar Award for Worst Title Reign so he can't be nominated KO's universal title run was pretty bad, he was constantly being misused and we never got the showdown for the belt with Jericho it deserved. Then he lost in two seconds to Goldberg because there's nobody who can be as good as someone from 20 years ago.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:12
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A lot of people malign Rey's world title run. Seth's first world title run where there was a stretch where he went 2-13 on television.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:23
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David Arquette is another gimme. Outside of that there’s Diesel. The win was out of nowhere at a house show (same poo poo they pulled with Bret Hart two years prior and it didn’t work then either), he was boring on the mic, not good in the ring, and it dragged on almost a year. Not a single good match the whole time.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:26
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TriffTshngo posted:In a modern context I think it makes sense for the DQ rule to still exist so you can use it to build storylines further and extend babyface title chases a bit longer, with it leading to some kind of big final match with a stipulation with no DQs, or title change via DQ. WWE being terrible and overusing it + doing it badly for 20 years doesn't necessarily make it a bad rule to have. The particular situation with the Giant I was referencing was just extra stupid because you only found this out the next night on Nitro because Jimmy Hart secretly turned on Hogan beforehand, getting the stip added to the match without him knowing, and then interfering when he was still, in the ref's eyes, on Hogan's side, which meant Hogan got DQ'd. It's the kind of poo poo even WWE don't do because it's so stupid. Not to defend the bad company but at least when they do a "Title changes hands on DQ" stip it's like, part of the story, like when Christian won it from Randy in 2011, lame as that finish was. WCW just did it because The issue is that it doesn't really work anymore: after a DQ finish the reaction you get isn't "I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE NEXT MATCH!" but "really, a DQ???" and its all negative stuff aimed at the promotion. There's a reason why most other places have trended towards mostly clean finishes; especially in big main event level matches.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:36
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IceAgeComing posted:The issue is that it doesn't really work anymore: after a DQ finish the reaction you get isn't "I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE NEXT MATCH!" but "really, a DQ???" and its all negative stuff aimed at the promotion. There's a reason why most other places have trended towards mostly clean finishes; especially in big main event level matches. Were WWE to massively cut back on the rollups and screwy/non-finishes and only do them in service of building a storyline instead of just because they couldn't be assed to think of a winner to whatever dumbass no-consequence TV match #7 on Raw, it would be more effective. I don't think it's that the fans refuse to accept a DQ or count-out anymore, it's that fans are loving sick of them because WWE never learned to stop doing them.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:44
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Maxwell Lord posted:David Arquette is another gimme. Wouldn't every single title reign in 2000 in WCW be a candidate for worst title reign ever? Oklahoma was Cruiserweight Champion.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:50
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NikkolasKing posted:Wouldn't every single title reign in 2000 in WCW be a candidate for worst title reign ever? Oklahoma was Cruiserweight Champion. There was a Cultaholic video where they ranked every WCW World Champion from worst to best and it was crazy to see how few good title runs there were in the history of the company.
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Feb 16, 2020 03:59
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:What are some of the worst title reigns? Like I've just watched HHH beat Rock for the IC title in 98 and while the match was great, the title reign is non existent - defended it once to bury Owen Hart then vacate it. A reign that should have been legendary but ended up being a dogturd was Jericho as the first undisputed champion. Jericho beat The Rock and Stone Cold in the same night. He was the first holder of both belts simultaneously. They had so much potential there for new stories and new matches. They could have handed Jericho the ball and let him run with it. Instead they immediately started booking him as a weak coward. He needed a belt shot, interference, a crooked ref, a low blow, and a rope assist to beat The Rock at the Rumble. His match against Austin at No Way Out played second fiddle to Austin's feud with the NWO. Then he was the fourth most important participant in his feud with Triple H, after Triple H, Stephanie, and Stephanie's dog. At one point the first undisputed WWF champion was cleaning up dog poop on TV for his boss.
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Feb 16, 2020 09:24
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:What are some of the worst title reigns? Like I've just watched HHH beat Rock for the IC title in 98 and while the match was great, the title reign is non existent - defended it once to bury Owen Hart then vacate it. Joey Ryan's PWG title reign is absolutely atrocious, a period from late 2005 to early 2007 of bad matches on top almost every time out. Just a bad heel run.
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Feb 16, 2020 09:43
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MassRafTer posted:Joey Ryan's PWG title reign is absolutely atrocious, a period from late 2005 to early 2007 of bad matches on top almost every time out. Just a bad heel run. my wrestling question is: is joey ryan a bad wrestler who stumbled upon an over gimmick? and if so what is the difference between that and a good wrestler?
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Feb 16, 2020 09:46
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:What are some of the worst title reigns? Like I've just watched HHH beat Rock for the IC title in 98 and while the match was great, the title reign is non existent - defended it once to bury Owen Hart then vacate it. Tadao Yasuda. IWGP Heavyweight Champion in 2002. Dude won a tournament for the vacant title, beating Masahiro Chono & Yuji Nagata. Before that, career midcarder, usually the guy being pinned in tag matches. Then he did some MMA & beat Jerome Le Banner at Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye so of course he got a title run. 1 successful defence against Tenzan & that was it, dropped the belt to Nagata & everyone just tried to forget it. Honourable mentions to the Bob Sapp & Brock Lesnar IWGP Heavyweight title reigns. Both very short but bad for different reasons.
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Feb 16, 2020 10:09
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shiksa posted:my wrestling question is: is joey ryan a bad wrestler who stumbled upon an over gimmick? and if so what is the difference between that and a good wrestler? A good wrestler can work outside the gimmick and still deliver. El Generico was a very over gimmick, and after losing that gimmick he's still put in good performances despite his circumstances.
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Feb 16, 2020 10:31
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forkboy84 posted:Tadao Yasuda. IWGP Heavyweight Champion in 2002. Dude won a tournament for the vacant title, beating Masahiro Chono & Yuji Nagata. Before that, career midcarder, usually the guy being pinned in tag matches. Then he did some MMA & beat Jerome Le Banner at Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye so of course he got a title run. 1 successful defence against Tenzan & that was it, dropped the belt to Nagata & everyone just tried to forget it. I wouldn't put Sapp on Yasuda or Lesnar's level just because he was insanely over and charismatic.
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Feb 16, 2020 10:43
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What is the best upgrade in terms of replacing wrestlers who were pulled from the card for injury or any reason? Asking because I saw Jimmy Suzuki is replacing Cody Hall with Dylan James in light of Cody's recent controversies and that's a pretty massive talent differential (as would replacing Cody with anyone tbf)
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Feb 16, 2020 10:48
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:I wouldn't put Sapp on Yasuda or Lesnar's level just because he was insanely over and charismatic. Yeah but getting stripped of the title because you lost an MMA fight is some seriously awful booking.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:07
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Is Jericho the G.O.A.T? He's wrestled for 30 years largely injury free, always entertaining to watch, has fantastic matches, reinvents himself, much better than his WWE peers (Punk, Edge, RVD, HHH, HBK) and likely has years ahead of him.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:14
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Is Jericho the G.O.A.T? He's wrestled for 30 years largely injury free, always entertaining to watch, has fantastic matches, reinvents himself, much better than his WWE peers (Punk, Edge, RVD, HHH, HBK) and likely has years ahead of him. At the very least I consider him to be the best later-career wrestler of all time.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:28
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Is Jericho the G.O.A.T? He's wrestled for 30 years largely injury free, always entertaining to watch, has fantastic matches, reinvents himself, much better than his WWE peers (Punk, Edge, RVD, HHH, HBK) and likely has years ahead of him. For me personally, is he one of the best? Absolutely. He’s at that elite level where, along with a handful of other guys, they are so loving good that saying one is better than the other comes down to personal preference more than anything. His resume and longevity are drat near impossible to beat. And if some loser comes in here and tries to drop that poo poo where they say “Um, actually Hulk Hogan sold more tickets and more ppvs therefore he is the true G.O.A.T.” I am going to kick your rear end.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:31
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Is Jericho the G.O.A.T? He's wrestled for 30 years largely injury free, always entertaining to watch, has fantastic matches, reinvents himself, much better than his WWE peers (Punk, Edge, RVD, HHH, HBK) and likely has years ahead of him. Yeah, I'd argue that he is at this moment. Dude made it through the biggest period of change in the business and always looked fantastic whatever he was doing. And now he's pushing fifty and yet he's somehow managed to pull the peak of his career out of his rear end.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:38
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Sandman McMahon posted:
In a business that's about entertaining fans and drawing money, it's hard to argue Hogan isn't top 3
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Feb 16, 2020 15:38
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Randaconda posted:In a business that's about entertaining fans and drawing money, it's hard to argue Hogan isn't top 3 Yeah, but he also made some considerable contributions towards driving red-hot products into the loving ground.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:41
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Randaconda posted:In a business that's about entertaining fans and drawing money, it's hard to argue Hogan isn't top 3 In that case Avengers: Endgame is the best movie of all time
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Feb 16, 2020 15:43
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Andrast posted:In that case Avengers: Endgame is the best movie of all time yes, movies and pro wrasslin' are exactly the same thing
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Feb 16, 2020 15:46
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Randaconda posted:yes, movies and pro wrasslin' are exactly the same thing In this case, yeah pretty much
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Feb 16, 2020 15:47
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Is Jericho the G.O.A.T? He's wrestled for 30 years largely injury free, always entertaining to watch, has fantastic matches, reinvents himself, much better than his WWE peers (Punk, Edge, RVD, HHH, HBK) and likely has years ahead of him. No. Misawa, Okada, Kobashi, Hashimoto, Flair, Inoki, Thesz, Bockwinkel, Race, Choshu probably all have at least as strong cases. And that's just the names that come to mind while I'm on the loo. You can probably make a case for him but personally I'm not buying
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Feb 16, 2020 15:53
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I’m gonna go ahead and put myself on the right side of history and say the true answer is Orange Cassidy.
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Feb 16, 2020 16:00
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forkboy84 posted:No. Misawa, Okada, Kobashi, Hashimoto, Flair, Inoki, Thesz, Bockwinkel, Race, Choshu probably all have at least as strong cases. And that's just the names that come to mind while I'm on the loo. Thesz, Misawa and Flair especially
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Feb 16, 2020 16:00
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Sandman McMahon posted:I’m gonna go ahead and put myself on the right side of history and say the true answer is Orange Cassidy. 
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Feb 16, 2020 16:00
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We'll figure this all out when Rarity's hand heals.
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Feb 16, 2020 16:40
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If you're talking late career wrestlers Negro Casas is just as over as Jericho. In ring is a push or even a slight advantage to Casas and he's 60.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:15
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I'd personally put Jericho in GOAT contention and it's great to see him finally get the chance to carry a company as a top star and do such a great job of it. It's a bonus that he's willing to work with so many younger talents and make them look as good as possible.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:42
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Tanahashi is also having a real amazing late career run that's pushing him into the GOAT talk as well
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Feb 16, 2020 17:42
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I'm not on the Jericho For GOAT bandwagon but then it's like I've been a fan of the dude's for literally a quarter century and his current reign is helping get a national fed off the ground so ???
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Feb 16, 2020 17:48
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I dont think you could put Jericho in the top 10 of all time, but I do think hes past that. Jericho has had lots of success beyond wrestling, in several things that many told him he would not succeed. So not a goat in wrestling, but one of the best at this moment, and easily one of most successful wrestlers in life.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:54
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GEORGE W BUSHI posted:What is the best upgrade in terms of replacing wrestlers who were pulled from the card for injury or any reason? maybe not the best, but i laugh when i remember that wwe ppv from somewhere in the last few years where roman and bray got very sick and it massively upgraded their matches. fuckin shield uncle angle gets me every time.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:54
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Jericho was my ultra favorite as a kid and I've always had a massive soft spot for him even when one of his runs was kind of underwhelming so even if I'm not interested in AEW it's awesome to see him getting so much respect this late in his career. Guy clearly knows how to be a star while making everyone around him look great as well.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:19
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It unfortunate that he's a chud.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:22
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Is Jericho the G.O.A.T? He's wrestled for 30 years largely injury free, always entertaining to watch, has fantastic matches, reinvents himself, much better than his WWE peers (Punk, Edge, RVD, HHH, HBK) and likely has years ahead of him. In the US you could make the argument but is better than Flair who had a longer career with more time on top and less long breaks, probably not. Definitely not as big of a star, wasn't the best wrestler in the country at his peak, etc. Then there are people like Thesz who had a 30+ full time career, wrestled part time for another 15 years after that, dominated the NWA title for years, was a major part of why wrestling became popular in Japan, in his old age was still considered such a star that he was made the first UWA champion, and was incredibly respected as a wrestler. Jericho can't compete with that. He's a very entertaining guy, has a great career but it is a big stretch to call him the best from his own company and impossible for the world. He's not even close to the best old guy wrestler when you look at the old guy wrestlers in Mexico.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:53
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Randaconda posted:yes, movies and pro wrasslin' are exactly the same thing Pro wrestling is weird because it's kind of like a sport, but you can't determine someone's success as winning the most. Drawing power is somewhat of a substitute, but I think we all know that selling tickets doesn't mean you're a good pro wrestler (Hogan is the top draw of all time and he loving sucks) If you look at pro wrestling as entertainment or art, the drawing power argument is pretty drat stupid. No one would argue that Thomas kinkade is a better painter than Vincent van Gogh
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Feb 16, 2020 19:41
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Son of Man posted:Pro wrestling is weird because it's kind of like a sport, but you can't determine someone's success as winning the most. Drawing power is somewhat of a substitute, but I think we all know that selling tickets doesn't mean you're a good pro wrestler (Hogan is the top draw of all time and he loving sucks) Hmm yes, the business, which has always been first and foremost about making money, doesn't count guys who made more than anybody else!
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Feb 16, 2020 20:07
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