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silence_kit posted:The reason why the HSA/HDCP idea grosses out C-SPAM posters is because it encourages you to use savings to pay for health care. Poor people don't have any savings. So, these kinds of plans preferentially benefit people who can afford to save $3,550 a year. Right. So I don’t think anyone here is even necessarily disagreeing with It (I personally disagree with the concept of HSAs for example, US healthcare needs to be fixed, etc). They’re just pointing out that um, well, that topic is not quite in the thread title , and while CSPAM is lovely, this thread is also not under CSPAM. The more you know.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:18
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Why the hell are all these tax advantage accounts tied to your employer. It just seems like a broken system. If a Roth IRA is not enough, why do they not make the Roth limits higher. I suppose you start investing at 27 and put $6,000 into a Roth IRA each year, and hope it gains 6%... you'd have $1M by the time you're 62 and can collect SS. That should be enough. Not having to gently caress with all this mega backdoor roth stuff
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Feb 16, 2020 15:20
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silence_kit posted:The reason why the HSA/HDCP idea grosses out C-SPAM posters is because it encourages you to use savings to pay for health care. Poor people don't have any savings. So, these kinds of plans preferentially benefit people who can afford to save $3,550/$7,100 a year. I just went from ineligible for employer benefits to eligible. For my circumstances, the choices were a $90/mo HDHP or ~$lots more~ for typical coverage. I’m making the savings by putting the difference in the HSA, topped up by the employer. It was a similar calculation when I was on my own for insurance but all the numbers (except what I put aside) were higher. So my monthly take home was about the same either way and I’ve been lucky enough to build up savings. For people who are reasonably healthy who have access to health insurance at all, HSAs & HDHP are worth considering. You don’t need to max the contribution annually for it to be a good idea. Your goal is to get to the point that you have your deductible covered anything you can save past that is gravy.
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Feb 16, 2020 15:47
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doingitwrong posted:What on earth is a "mega backdoor IRA" in that flowchart? Nuurd posted:Contributing to a 401k as non-Roth after tax above the 19k elective deferral limit and then immediately rolling that into Roth IRA money. You can find more details here. It is from 2014 so the numbers are wrong, but the concept is the same. The new numbers are $19,000 tax deferred and $56,000 maximum for 2019.
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Feb 16, 2020 16:35
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Untagged posted:After 65 you can withdrawal from from an HSA like a retirement account (taxed) without the penalty. That's why a lot of people use them as an 'extra' retirement account. And you can save all of your heathcare receipts and "pay yourself back" at any time in the future to skip the being taxed on withdrawal part.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:29
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I've been ignoring my HSA because it just seems like a pain in the rear end. But I probably should do it huh.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:41
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FateFree posted:I've been ignoring my HSA because it just seems like a pain in the rear end. But I probably should do it huh. Once you break the code you will realize it’s awesome.
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Feb 16, 2020 17:50
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Boot and Rally posted:You can find more details here. It is from 2014 so the numbers are wrong, but the concept is the same. The new numbers are $19,000 tax deferred and $56,000 maximum for 2019. It's $19500 and $57000 for 2020.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:30
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So regarding ESPPs - my company has one and I think it's not only a discount but something where the buy price is the lowest of the quarter. Given that, if my only liquid cash is around $25k in savings and $4k in checking, is it a good idea to buy with the savings/checking, sell immediately, and just put it back into the savings and checking account?
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Feb 16, 2020 18:48
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Chu020 posted:It's $19500 and $57000 for 2020. Yup, it says that in the IRS page I linked. This tax year is 2019. Unless I misunderstand your point?
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Feb 16, 2020 18:50
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MJP posted:So regarding ESPPs - my company has one and I think it's not only a discount but something where the buy price is the lowest of the quarter. Given that, if my only liquid cash is around $25k in savings and $4k in checking, is it a good idea to buy with the savings/checking, sell immediately, and just put it back into the savings and checking account? For mine, you couldn’t buy stock and sell it like that. You contribute per paycheck to a money market fund for the buy in period (which was 6 months) up to 10% of your pay. At the end of the 6 month period, it automatically purchased stock using the accumulated $ in the fund, using whichever was the lowest price - at the time of purchase, or the time of the start of the buy in period and a 15% discount on top of that. You could then sell it immediately if you wanted, which I did.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:55
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MJP posted:So regarding ESPPs - my company has one and I think it's not only a discount but something where the buy price is the lowest of the quarter. Given that, if my only liquid cash is around $25k in savings and $4k in checking, is it a good idea to buy with the savings/checking, sell immediately, and just put it back into the savings and checking account? Are you even allowed to do it with cash deposit? Ours has to be post-tax salary deferral. Read your plan documents. Ask them questions until you understand it. Ours you always want to enroll on every offering even at a dollar because you can adjust it twice and it locks in that price for 2.5 years and the limit rolls over. My first year I could only afford a few grand, the next year I had three limits worth of rollover and could afford to do the whole thing. I've made hundreds % gains on it through comically good luck. ESPP is almost always the right thing to do.
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Feb 16, 2020 18:55
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Is the HSA always a no-brainer smart decision? What analysis do you perform to determine if it's the right option for your family? Is there an ELI5 HSA post or thread on these forums? My employer's BlueOptions HSA says the per pay period deduction for this plan is $242. Does that mean $242 goes towards HSA savings account? Or $242 is just the premium paid for the insurance and then I have to contribute $ on top of that towards the HSA?
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Feb 16, 2020 22:20
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EmmaDilemma posted:Is the HSA always a no-brainer smart decision? What analysis do you perform to determine if it's the right option for your family? Is there an ELI5 HSA post or thread on these forums? Many times HSAs will allow you to invest some or all of the money in them into index funds. There is no time limit on when you decide to reimburse yourself for healthcare costs using HSA money, except that the cost must have occurred after you were eligible for the HSA and contributed money to it. You do not need to later be covered by an HSA in order to reimburse from it. Because of this, many people will dump a bunch of money into their HSA, invest it, and keep track of their healthcare receipts until many years down the road when they can reimburse themselves using part of the value they previously invested. If you have any money left in your HSA by the time you turn 59.5(?) you can withdraw from it as if it were just a regular old Traditional IRA. Hoodwinker fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 22:30
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EmmaDilemma posted:Is the HSA always a no-brainer smart decision? What analysis do you perform to determine if it's the right option for your family? Is there an ELI5 HSA post or thread on these forums? If you have access to an HSA, and can spare the money, it's always a good idea to contribute. Everything related to medicine is expensive and HSAs let you save tax-free. But - you have to have a high-deductible health plan to get access to that HSA. That might or might not be a good decision compared to whatever other health plans you have access to through your employer. Typically, high-deductible plans work well for younger people without any chronic conditions - in that case, you've either got a few small costs over the year for checkups, or a big bill for an emergency or exceptional circumstance that hits your deductible (which you can hopefully cover out of your HSA savings). People who need a few grand worth of medical treatment per year to control some chronic condition tend to lose out hardest under high-deductible plans. The "per pay period deduction" is probably just the insurance premium.
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Feb 16, 2020 22:31
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I can’t get a HSA outside of my employer correct? We have a HDHP but the deductible is covered by a fully funded HRA. We have a FSA option but I know those suck? I also use it for my dental and vision OOP costs, but it doesn’t count towards my medical deductible. I want to get lasik and it’s going to be probably more than what’s in my HRA at the end of this year. My HRA will cover lasik too! Maybe I could do one eye at a time? One in December this year and December next. cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 16, 2020 |
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Feb 16, 2020 23:43
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cheese eats mouse posted:I can’t get a HSA outside of my employer correct? We have a HDHP but the deductible is covered by a fully funded HRA. We have a FSA option but I know those suck? I also use it for my dental and vision OOP costs, but it doesn’t count towards my medical deductible. Can’t get a HSA unless you are on a high deductible plan correct. I’m in a similar boat, I figured I might as well do a HSA then found out my plan has way too low of a deductible (overall, a good problem to have so I’ll take it).
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Feb 17, 2020 00:02
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cheese eats mouse posted:I can’t get a HSA outside of my employer correct? We have a HDHP but the deductible is covered by a fully funded HRA. We have a FSA option but I know those suck? I also use it for my dental and vision OOP costs, but it doesn’t count towards my medical deductible. As long as you're covered by a qualifying high-deductible health plan, and nothing else, you can set up an HSA anywhere. There are some additional tax benefits if your employer does direct payroll contributions, and that's typically done in partnership with a single HSA provider, but it's not locked in. But - if you're using the HRA to meet the deductible, then that counts as another health benefit. There are other possible arrangements where the HRA kicks in after you've met the HDHP deductible, and those do let you use an HSA. It sounds like you don't qualify there, because your HRA covers your deductible. No HSA, but enjoy what sounds like really good health insurance. IRS Publication 969 posted:Other employee health plans.
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Feb 17, 2020 00:15
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The final thing to add about HSAs is that this could be triple untaxed money if it's spent on medical expenses. It goes in tax free. It grows tax free. If you spend it on medical expenses, it gets spent tax free. Regarding the last point, there's no strict time limit on when that money has to be spent. Theoretically, you could not spend the HSA money, hold on to every single receipt you've ever had on medical expenses, and then withdraw the money when you're 60 to buy a boat. As long as you've spent more money on medical expenses than the boat, that's ok. I'm currently maxing out my HSA and I just see it as bonus money. Hopefully I won't ever need it. I will.
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Feb 17, 2020 00:56
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Physician, heal thyself
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Feb 17, 2020 03:04
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Space Gopher posted:If you have access to an HSA, and can spare the money, it's always a good idea to contribute. Everything related to medicine is expensive and HSAs let you save tax-free. Over the past 2 years I've spent $3076 on medical/dental expenses. Below are the plans available to me. I'm currently using the first column 5800 PPO plan, which is already a high-deductible plan. The HSA plan would be an extra $30 per pay period or $60 per month, which seems to make sense given my expenses over the past 2 years right? 
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Feb 17, 2020 03:13
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The first plan seems to be objectively terrible? Worse out of pocket max, 50% coinsurance after the deductible and the same deductible as the HSA plan. All for $60/mo less which isn't nothing I suppose. But HSA allows you to pay your medical bills with before tax money. You're spending juuuust up to the deductible in either case. So if I'm you, I do the HDHP of these three and put as much savings as I can into the HSA. Actually if I'm you, I'm looking to see what insurance is available outside of my employer. Until this summer, I was paying ~$240/month on an HDHP as an individual through BCBS. Which is HALF what you are paying if these are costing you $2xx 2x a month. It is possible that insurance premiums are really that divergent between states?
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Feb 17, 2020 03:25
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My previous post did not include that those premiums listed include covered children on the plans.
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Feb 17, 2020 03:34
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EmmaDilemma posted:Over the past 2 years I've spent $3076 on medical/dental expenses. Below are the plans available to me. I'm currently using the first column 5800 PPO plan, which is already a high-deductible plan. The HSA plan would be an extra $30 per pay period or $60 per month, which seems to make sense given my expenses over the past 2 years right? The first plan is a joke and your companies broker should be ashamed to even offer it. I would pick a middle plan and just be ready with the $3000 at all times. It's all really close to each other but the ppo costs and extra $2400-4800/year depending on if those are monthly or per-pay-period (12 or 24 or 26 a year)
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Feb 17, 2020 03:48
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Man I really miss my private sector HDHP. I work for the government now and our HDHP options are basically no cheaper than my "normal" plan.
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Feb 17, 2020 04:10
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Nuurd posted:Contributing to a 401k as non-Roth after tax above the 19k elective deferral limit and then immediately rolling that into Roth IRA money. Worth highlighting that your 401k plan must offer both after-tax contributions and in-service withdrawal of those contributions for the megabackdoor to work. Lots of 401k plans don't have these features.
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Feb 17, 2020 04:13
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Tyro posted:Man I really miss my private sector HDHP. I work for the government now and our HDHP options are basically no cheaper than my "normal" plan. I came here to chime in with this! Space Gopher posted:If you have access to an HSA, and can spare the money, it's always a good idea to contribute. Everything related to medicine is expensive and HSAs let you save tax-free. I think the bold part is worth clarifying. Just because an HSA is an option doesn't mean it is always the best option. If you are on an HSA, for whatever reason, then you should be contributing. As a counter example: I have seen HSAs with a premium that is more than the initial tax savings that is across the board worse than a free HMO. It still might make sense to take the HSA if you're young and have zero expenses. It can also be pretty easy to vaporize all your savings with predictable life events (having a kid) and slamming into your out of pocket maximum.
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Feb 17, 2020 04:38
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SlapActionJackson posted:Worth highlighting that your 401k plan must offer both after-tax contributions and in-service withdrawal of those contributions for the megabackdoor to work. Lots of 401k plans don't have these features. Or in service conversion, which Fidelity rolled out a year ago if your plan decided to sign up for it. It's magic.
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Feb 17, 2020 04:59
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H110Hawk posted:The first plan is a joke and your companies broker should be ashamed to even offer it. Agreed on this. That PPO plan isn't better than the HDHP to the degree necessary to justify that price difference. Also  at that first plan.
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Feb 17, 2020 07:27
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H110Hawk posted:Or in service conversion, which Fidelity rolled out a year ago if your plan decided to sign up for it. It's magic. Is one obviously better than the other from an early retirement perspective?
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Feb 17, 2020 14:01
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silence_kit posted:The reason why the HSA/HDCP idea grosses out C-SPAM posters is because it encourages you to use savings to pay for health care. Poor people don't have any savings. So, these kinds of plans preferentially benefit people who can afford to save $3,550/$7,100 a year. It’s too bad you can’t use an HSA to treat irony posting brain worms, CSPAM might be on board
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Feb 17, 2020 14:04
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spf3million posted:I set up auto in-service conversions from after-tax 401k to Roth 401k this year. Most of the articles online regarding the mega background Roth imply that folks should be doing after-tax 401k to a Roth IRA instead. IRA is nominally ideal because you have absolute control over what you purchase, where you hold it, and the fees involved. If your 401k is awesome then it doesn't matter. Mine is missing total market but has the cheap Fidelity s&p500 so I use that and don't care.
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Feb 17, 2020 15:07
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spf3million posted:I set up auto in-service conversions from after-tax 401k to Roth 401k this year. Most of the articles online regarding the mega background Roth imply that folks should be doing after-tax 401k to a Roth IRA instead. I believe Roth IRAs permit you to take out the contributions (but not the growth) before retirement; however, 401k(s) have much stronger legal protections in case you get sued or something.
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Feb 17, 2020 16:35
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H110Hawk posted:The first plan is a joke and your companies broker should be ashamed to even offer it. * First Plan PPO (crappiest plan) is $424 per month or $5088 per year * Second plan HSA is $484 per month or $5808 per year * Third plan PPO is $646 per month or $7752 per year So moving from the first plan PPO to the second plan HSA would cost me an extra $720 per year.
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Feb 17, 2020 17:07
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Does anyone else use Personal Capital and USAA as their bank? I've had a ton of issues the last few days refreshing my account. It just worked but Personal Capital believes the account is closed for some reason. Wondering if it's a me thing or general problem.
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Feb 17, 2020 17:10
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Bank connections to PC/Mint flake out all the time.
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Feb 17, 2020 17:21
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Yeah but this particular instance is different. I haven't seen these error messages before. It's probably nothing but I can't find anyone mentioning the problem
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Feb 17, 2020 17:26
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Xguard86 posted:Yeah but this particular instance is different. I haven't seen these error messages before. It's probably nothing but I can't find anyone mentioning the problem Yup ignore it for a week and see what happens. If you aren't using an api integration then whatever website updates the bank does can break their screen scraper until the scraper updates.
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Feb 17, 2020 18:15
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Xguard86 posted:Does anyone else use Personal Capital and USAA as their bank? Saw some people complaining about USAA linkage on the YNAB subreddit. So it's probably not just you.
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Feb 17, 2020 19:07
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EmmaDilemma posted:* First Plan PPO (crappiest plan) is $424 per month or $5088 per year If you max out your HSA (at $7,100 for a family), you're saving over twice that in taxes (assuming 22% marginal rate, that's $1,562 in tax savings). I typically try to calculate 3 numbers when going over this crap: Base cost (premium only) Total deductible (premium + deductible) Total out of pocket max (premium + out of pocket max) This gives you a decent comparison of where everything stands, all else equal, with the minimum cost, maximum cost, and a middle point where things start costing slightly less. It's complicated for us because both our jobs offer health care (mine is pretty poo poo though), so we have to do a bunch of permutations of who is covered by what plan. But if those are your only 3 options, you get the following: pre:Plan 5800(poo poo PPO) Plan 5041(HSA) Plan 5462 ($$$ PPO) Premium $5,088 $5,808 $7,752 Premium + Deductible $6,588 $8,808 $9,252 Premium + OOP Max $15,088 $11,808 $12,752 Basically, poo poo's complicated, and the insurance company always wins because they've already done the math, and even if you have a catastrophe they'll find some way to skirt their responsibilities in the fine print.
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Feb 18, 2020 14:15
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