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I mean if you don't have faith in the ability of people to democratically improve their lives if given the chance you're kinda SOL, IMO. I don't think it's gonna be a huge thing but it might help slowly replace the shittier MPs with better ones.
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Feb 18, 2020 23:57
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OwlFancier posted:I mean if you don't have faith in the ability of people to democratically improve their lives if given the chance you're kinda SOL, IMO. I think the last couple of years shows that having any faith in the general electorate to not poo poo itself and vote in bad people is clearly misplaced and possibly bordering on delusion
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Feb 18, 2020 23:59
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There's already a lot of noise about Dave's Brits performance and you're probably only going to see the clip on the twitters where he called out Johnson for being racist but you should watch the whole thing in its entirety because it is fantastic both in delivery and surrounding visual effects https://youtu.be/mXLS2IzZSdg
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Feb 19, 2020 00:00
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Ash Crimson posted:I think the last couple of years shows that having any faith in the general electorate to not poo poo itself and vote in bad people is clearly misplaced and possibly bordering on delusion Labour isn't the same as the general electorate. Also I continue to think that has far more to do with the damage done by bourgeois control of our environment rather than an innate fault with people.
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Feb 19, 2020 00:02
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James's outraged rants at various US politics bullshit gives me life and makes up for Alasdair's current reprieve from C or C.namesake posted:Yeah sorry I am not posting good tonight. I'm still a bit tired from the weekend it seems. Hehe, understandable!
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Feb 19, 2020 00:18
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Niric posted:I don't have much to add, but I thought this was an excellent post on a topic that doesn't really get discussed all that much, but should. There's a lot of assumptions about all the great stuff that RLB is definitely going to do to radically reshape the party, but as far as I can tell a lot of it is just people having huge faith in the power of open selections to be transformative If, as seems probable, the party has just been flooded with new Starmerista entryists, not sure 'open selections' would have the effect they might have done a year ago!
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Feb 19, 2020 00:43
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On Pete's Service Guarantees Citizenship idea, one part that wasn't mentioned that I think also applies is, it would be used to shift the blame for anyplace having a hard time - be it from a small municipality to an entire region - to the people within it. The people there would be told "Well what's the problem? You've got the national service to clean your roads and garden your parks and deliver meals to your elderly?" and it would dispense with any further need to investigate reasons some places might be struggling. At most they would concede there's maybe a lack of money, but that's a tale as old as time and doesn't change anything from today anyway. The observations that follow about how yeah it's great in leafy suburbs that now get their streets cleaned even cheaper but it's not doing so much to root up problems with opioid abuse or homelessness or urban decay would be either ignored entirely or shat upon as talking down hardworking kids trying to make things better.* Also I think one of the big attractions is that it lets the conservatives, but most especially the liberals, get essential things done on the cheap. They have enough knowledge to know that you do need things like sanitaiton workers and gardeners and road workers and the like, so just get kids out of high school to do it while claiming it's for their own benefit first and foremost. I doubt the kids being funneled into this project would be commanding strong wages if they get paid at all and any attempts to say "Well we kind of need some money to pay for, like, food? Maintain my car? Save for college/my first apartment/etc.? Send back to mom because she just had a heart attack last year and shouldn't have to work at all but at least if I can save her from a few hours a week it's something?)" would be met with "It's called national SERVICE not national PAY KIDS STUPID MONEY!" idk maybe The Smiler is a sneaky genius who wants to create a stronger sense of community and mutual obligation so he can go Full Red but I suspect it's a typical lib-fash policy that tackles real problems in one of the worst ways possible because the real objectives are indeed about controlling and disspiriting people. I'm looking at his page now (I'll have to bleach the RAM I guess) and if it was just "Hey I want to fund the Peace Corps so it can actually take all the kids who apply! I'd like to make sure that kind of voluntary service is well-funded and doesn't have to turn eager kids away because of financial constraints, and to help ensure these things are talking to each other and can most effectively get people where they're needed while giving kids experiences and skills that will help them" it'd be fine, but of course being the weirdo CIA zealot that he is, Buttigieg turns it into this bizarre evangelical thing about changing the country and strays directly into fashland. * I can see on his page actually, he's talking about tackling "mental health, addiction, and substance use issues" and 1) I don't think it should fall on teenagers to handle this B) I somehow doubt they're going to get the training needed to be effective and Γ) No matter how good their training actually is I think they need a little more than some bright eyed and bushy tailed 18-19 year olds to solve.
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Feb 19, 2020 00:44
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Niric posted:I don't have much to add, but I thought this was an excellent post on a topic that doesn't really get discussed all that much, but should. There's a lot of assumptions about all the great stuff that RLB is definitely going to do to radically reshape the party, but as far as I can tell a lot of it is just people having huge faith in the power of open selections to be transformative Yes it's completely correct but I think it can be separated into two strains of analysis: 1) the efforts were cut short: there was real change in the NEC and other higher level institutions in the party but there hadnt been the level of penetration into the mid level like councillors and CLP leadership and no progress at the MP level so the proper connection/pipeline between membership and leadership hasn't taken place. If that keeps rolling then even if the main uniting force didn't success first time then the project can succeed overall. 2) we confused the movement with the party: people do care about the things that the Labour party promised but there was a mistaken belief that a volunteer project can replace a rooted materially driven ideological understanding of why people needed to fight and vote in 2019. Basically you either have to force more power to the Labour membership to continue the reform of the party or move to looking outside of the party to direct and build the existing social forces which gave the Labour Party strength to begin with.
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Feb 19, 2020 00:53
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Doccykins posted:There's already a lot of noise about Dave's Brits performance and you're probably only going to see the clip on the twitters where he called out Johnson for being racist but you should watch the whole thing in its entirety because it is fantastic both in delivery and surrounding visual effects this is so good and he knows it
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Feb 19, 2020 00:56
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namesake posted:Yes it's completely correct but I think it can be separated into two strains of analysis: Or both, because giving more power to the membership allows it to be concurrent with external organizations.
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Feb 19, 2020 00:58
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OwlFancier posted:Or both, because giving more power to the membership allows it to be concurrent with external organizations. Sure I guess the use of 'or' was a false dichotomy but there's a bit of 'reform or revolution' in there as well which is very important now.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:08
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I guess I'd say that the material conditions that necessitate radical change are only going to keep getting more pronounced so I'd like for there to be a route for people to flex power in the established political system as a matter of expediency, though ideally with the source of that power being outside it.
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Feb 19, 2020 01:17
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OwlFancier posted:Labour isn't the same as the general electorate. Also I continue to think that has far more to do with the damage done by bourgeois control of our environment rather than an innate fault with people. A huge contingent of the ‘traditional working class’ (many retirees or near retirees) are deeply opposed to social liberalism. They will continue to vote for shitheads like the tories whilst claiming they are ‘working class’ (now that the post thatcher spell has ended). If labour wants to appeal to them, it will have to turn the wint racism dial, and even then will still lose. The interests of some ex miners and some lads on fishing trawlers are not the interests of the majority of the modern working class: nurses, retail workers, gig workers, baristas, hairdressers, teaching assistants etcetera. Labour should explicitly reclaim and redefine the working classes as people living pay check to pay check, seeing their wages pay off landlords mortgages. These people skew younger, socially liberal, and are where labours new core constituency lies. a neurotic ai fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 03:41
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Well yes, that's implicit, I don't think labour should be pandering to xenophobic retirees or homeowners or whatever, there is no future in that. Offer useful policies but if they don't want to vote for us then gently caress em, our side on the culture war should clearly be with the people who are still going to be alive in a decade or two and our duty as a party of the workers clearly rests with people who have been systemically denied the situation that their parents take for granted.
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Feb 19, 2020 03:51
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UK to close door to non-English speakers and unskilled workers.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:57
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Unless they massively expand the list of companies that are "approved sponsors"... I don't see this changing much? Also having your immigration status linked to your employer is bullshit and lets them get away with murder. Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 06:08
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Good time to be a plumber I guess.
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Feb 19, 2020 06:14
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Doccykins posted:There's already a lot of noise about Dave's Brits performance and you're probably only going to see the clip on the twitters where he called out Johnson for being racist but you should watch the whole thing in its entirety because it is fantastic both in delivery and surrounding visual effects If you're phone posting you know you can embed YouTube videos by hitting the bbcode button and pasting it that way right?
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Feb 19, 2020 08:27
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Lmao https://twitter.com/eldon_katz/status/1229990832918454273?s=19
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Feb 19, 2020 08:32
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Who's gabbard and why do they have all the woke supporters?
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Feb 19, 2020 08:36
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That range of salaries seems pretty small considering you also get points for having a PhD. Apparently a regular degree isn't worth poo poo but the salary stops mattering way below the UK average?
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Feb 19, 2020 08:38
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OwlFancier posted:Who's gabbard and why do they have all the woke supporters? Tulsi Gabbard is the woo-Trump crossover one.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:38
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Munin posted:Tulsi Gabbard is the woo-Trump crossover one. I thought that was Marianne?
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Feb 19, 2020 08:41
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Totally predictable that STEM degrees are worth more than any other "relevant" PhD. Yes we need lecturers/curators/archivists but not as much as bench scientists and data bros.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:42
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OwlFancier posted:I thought that was Marianne? Oops, you're right. Got them mixed up. I thought Tulsi Gabbard also had some right wing stuff going on at various points though? jacksbrat posted:Totally predictable that STEM degrees are worth more than any other "relevant" PhD. Yes we need lecturers/curators/archivists but not as much as bench scientists and data bros. Data Bros et al probably get to double dip on the essential jobs points as well which archivists etc I presume don't get a look into.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:54
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I wonder what's going to happen to the salary requirement when they realise the real shortages aren't in the jobs Dom Cummies respects with his big boy brain, but in stuff like care. Maybe employers will start to compensate care workers better to get them a few more immigration points..? Hahaha jk there will just be 40 babies or 100 elderly people to every staff member.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:02
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jacksbrat posted:I wonder what's going to happen to the salary requirement when they realise the real shortages aren't in the jobs Dom Cummies respects with his big boy brain, but in stuff like care. The Dom Cummies will be fine in their fully private hospitals which will be able to get staff as they will be able to pay a hair more than the privatised NHS hospitals will squeeze people's wages to. Hence that problem is not really a problem since it won't impact People Who Matter.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:08
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And somehow it'll still be Labour's fault.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:08
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He's... still going?  https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1229955156755742720?s=19 E: just page after page of ten tweet threads where gets ratioed to hell and back then gets indignant about it lol ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 09:37
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ThomasPaine posted:He's... still going? https://twitter.com/shaunjlawson/status/1229985227143024640 "Only I may think tony blair is the best thing to happen to the labour party."
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Feb 19, 2020 09:44
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gently caress me. I like how he opened with the fact that you shouldn't stan for shitheads even if they profess to be part of your broader movement and then end up with "Blair is the best ever".
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Feb 19, 2020 09:48
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OwlFancier posted:Who's gabbard and why do they have all the woke supporters? Tulsi Gabbard is an actual shill for Russia and is their propaganda machine's favoured candidate
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Feb 19, 2020 09:50
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All that guy's articles about anti-Semitism had the exact same undercurrent of monomania, sorry.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:54
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Holy poo poo this is much worse than even the worst case scenario I imagined. So yeah I guess grad and post grad education doesn't mean poo poo unless it's a PhD, in which case you're more likely than not an academic and not a skilled industry professional lol.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:58
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Seeing the Sensible, Centrist, Silent-majority types going nuts that nobody listens to them or votes for their candidates any more is a continual small comfort in our current hell-society.
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Feb 19, 2020 09:59
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jacksbrat posted:I wonder what's going to happen to the salary requirement when they realise the real shortages aren't in the jobs Dom Cummies respects with his big boy brain, but in stuff like care. "gently caress business" They don't care about the economy or what the country needs, they just want the racism.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:00
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josh04 posted:All that guy's articles about anti-Semitism had the exact same undercurrent of monomania, sorry. I agree that they had an air of breathless narcissism to them but they were largely correct in content and attacked the right people, at least.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:02
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The incredible stench of Dom Cummies is all over this lol. What an incredible shitshow this is going to be. Got to do a racisms though I suppose! [e] Just as an example about how incredibly dumb this is you can look through the Australian system they are trying to ape and how it assigns points rather than just PhD yes/no! https://workpermit.com/immigration/australia/australian-skilled-immigration-points-requirements Saros fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 10:24
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Ha yes stem phds are obviously just inherently worth twice as much as their colleagues in other disciplines, very cool precedent!
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Feb 19, 2020 10:28
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Seriously who is going to do all the low skill, lovely pay but incredibly necessary stuff currently done by Euro immigrants. I guess the companies could pay them more aaaaahahahahahahhhhhhhh pppffffttttt.
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Feb 19, 2020 10:30
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