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John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Cloakers, maybe.

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Magmarashi
May 20, 2009





Manuel Calavera posted:

Well you see they're from The Elemental Plane of Cops, as summoned by Coppamancers. It's totally inaccurate lore.

Coppamancers, also called 'Karen's*


*Susan and Becky accepted regional variants

Mercedes Colomar
Nov 1, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Ratoslov posted:

I've always been partial to the 'cops are a kind of fungus that grows in air vents' theory myself.

Magmarashi posted:

Coppamancers, also called 'Karen's*


*Susan and Becky accepted regional variants

:hmmyes: Both of these statements are valid.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010

Ratoslov posted:

I've always been partial to the 'cops are a kind of fungus that grows in air vents' theory myself.

Da Boyz in Blue

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Wait till you see what we're doing to the AI in the payday 2 crackdown mod. It turns out there were several layers of buggy interference blocking intended enemy behaviors...and after we removed those, we started adding new AI on top of it.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

Discendo Vox posted:

Wait till you see what we're doing to the AI in the payday 2 crackdown mod. It turns out there were several layers of buggy interference blocking intended enemy behaviors...and after we removed those, we started adding new AI on top of it.

Was "Tether" misspelled?

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Leal posted:

Was "Tether" misspelled?

There were a few of those (one of the melee weapons picks a random number range for one of its stats), but, for example, the entire enemy logic system for movement feeds through this:

quote:

if not self._need_upd and (self._ext_anim.base_need_upd or self._ext_anim.upper_need_upd or self._stance.transition or self._suppression.transition) then
self._need_upd = true
end

The entire bit after "and" in parentheses has zero benefits and causes enemies to freeze at random because, since they were doing any number of other things, they would get passed over by the entire movement system. Several of these "other things" don't actually terminate properly on their own, so the net effect is until something acts on them, the enemy can't move. It's an entire blockage that was inserted into the update code for no reason, possibly under the belief that the different states would conflict (they don't) or that it would make enemy behavior consistent irrespective of computer speed (it doesn't). This is one of ~five separate foundation-level AI bugs that, even individually, make enemies do things like freeze and not fire at the player, or make special enemies unable to use their attacks. Others include all enemies running the pathfinding logic (the most resource intensive of the main AI systems) at all times, even when in the frozen state mentioned above, and a set of pause and "stare" delays that appear to have been intended to improve performance...because everything was being hampered by all enemies runnning the pathfinding logic at all times.

Our best guess is the devteam has had so much turnover that at this point our team members know much more about the game systems than any of the active devs do. Some of these problems were in the game at launch.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Discendo Vox posted:

There were a few of those (one of the melee weapons picks a random number range for one of its stats), but, for example, the entire enemy logic system for movement feeds through this:


The entire bit after "and" in parentheses has zero benefits and causes enemies to freeze at random because, since they were doing any number of other things, they would get passed over by the entire movement system. Several of these "other things" don't actually terminate properly on their own, so the net effect is until something acts on them, the enemy can't move. It's an entire blockage that was inserted into the update code for no reason, possibly under the belief that the different states would conflict (they don't) or that it would make enemy behavior consistent irrespective of computer speed (it doesn't). This is one of ~five separate foundation-level AI bugs that, even individually, make enemies do things like freeze and not fire at the player, or make special enemies unable to use their attacks. Others include all enemies running the pathfinding logic (the most resource intensive of the main AI systems) at all times, even when in the frozen state mentioned above, and a set of pause and "stare" delays that appear to have been intended to improve performance...because everything was being hampered by all enemies runnning the pathfinding logic at all times.

Our best guess is the devteam has had so much turnover that at this point our team members know much more about the game systems than any of the active devs do. Some of these problems were in the game at launch.

I'm just curious; Is the army-o-cops quantity of enemies intended, or a bug in of itself?

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

I'm just curious; Is the army-o-cops quantity of enemies intended, or a bug in of itself?

Briefly, yes. I'm going to skip several factors to simplify things, but at launch, the max number of cops on the map on the top difficulty was ~25. When Death Wish (the first endgame difficulty expansion) came out, the max on that difficulty was 48. This was already a source of complaints, because many of the early maps in the game were small enough that 48 enemies would pretty nearly saturate them. When One Down (later, Death Sentence), the true final difficulty, was added, the max number of enemies was increased to 108. This was partly to deal with the introduction of much larger maps (and to deal with the fact that for some strange reason the game was struggling to manage twice as many NPCs as it was originally designed for), but the same limit was also applied to those earlier, smaller maps!

At this point, each difficulty has a base enemy cap, which is multiplied by the number of players. There used to be a more subtle curve, but it was scrapped, so the devs definitely know what the consequences are. A lead designer joined the devs a couple years in who was generally clueless, but increasingly sent the game in a "horde shooter" direction that cut against its core systems.

I could give you a whole essay on problems with payday 2 difficulty design and how we've tried to fix it with Crackdown, but the basic lessons of payday 2 come down to a combo of:

a) basic design incompetence,
b) long-term player optimization in a PvE game (with an especially toxic, entitled "elite" that includes popular content creators)
c) reactive design responses that basically gave players whatever they said they wanted, and
d) heavy turnover resulting in a loss of institutional knowledge.

Owl Inspector
Sep 14, 2011

https://twitter.com/A2113Y/status/1229764703045316609

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984
you posted the wrong one

https://twitter.com/stardotdll/status/1230016299377537024

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(

Some of these problems, especially the personnel churn, can probably be attributed directly to the apparent general toxicity of the work environment itself, given the outward clues of waves of people quitting, the offices being raided in relation to tax crimes, and the repeated increasingly weird appeals to fringe alt-right ideas and symbols.

Granted, I understand those issues might be outside of the scope of a mod to address. :v:

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

The MSJ posted:

Da Boyz in Blue

Orks aren't cops, they're anarchists - they strive ensure that everyone is equally krumped, thus eliminating all hierarchies.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


LashLightning posted:

Orks aren't cops, they're anarchists - they strive ensure that everyone is equally krumped, thus eliminating all hierarchies.

Ork society is based on oo'evah's da biggest an' baddest ork, e's da boss nob cuz he krumps all dem uvver boyz, ya git!

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

KozmoNaut posted:

Ork society is based on oo'evah's da biggest an' baddest ork, e's da boss nob cuz he krumps all dem uvver boyz, ya git!

The constant fluctuation of the singular boss nob leads to an average of no one having any power over anyone else over a particular length of time.

The actual hole in my hypothesis is the existence of grots and their enforced servitude under the orks, but that's where the Red Gobbo comes in...

Edit : Please see "Konquest ov Squig-sarnies" by Warboss Krumpotkin for further discussion of An-Ork-o-kommunism and the fight to bring equality to the galaxy, also known as the "class-WAAAGH!"

LashLightning fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Feb 19, 2020

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
Orks exist in a perpetual state of nature. Their lives are are nasty, violent, brutish, and frequently short.

The problem is that they are also dentocapitalists, and as such intrinsically evil.

MariusLecter
Sep 5, 2009

NI MUERTE NI MIEDO
All orks have UTI.



e;
Universal Toof Income.

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012

何 ??
I dont know much about Orks but I remember reading a story about how they invaded a human planet but couldnt get past the city's barrier, so they got bored and started doing Mad Max style death races with each other. I respect and relate to that

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
Gorkamorka

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Gorkamorka is basically orks crash landing on a planet and infighting until they reach critical orkness and can construct a ramshackle spaceship powered by said orkness, to take them on to new planets.

It rules.

Also orks literally being sentient mobile fungi lichens rules hard.

KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Feb 19, 2020

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

Cardiovorax posted:

Orks exist in a perpetual state of nature. Their lives are are nasty, violent, brutish, and frequently short.

You could save a lot of ten-dollar words and just say "working class". :imunfunny:

Cardiovorax posted:

The problem is that they are also dentocapitalists, and as such intrinsically evil.

The problem is vampiric capitalism, not a self-regulating currency that is immune to inflation due to that the mentioned teef decaying into nothing fairly quickly and constantly having new teef being injected into the economy by punching out the teef of the Ork next to you.

No Ork profits from the labour of another, except for the labour of grots. But, again, see the Red Gobbo.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

LashLightning posted:

You could save a lot of ten-dollar words and just say "working class". :imunfunny:

Back when 40k was satire, they were a football hooligans joke.

Now there's a book series out there about a super-Ork empire that once nearly conquered the Imperium and farmed humans for food with loving descriptions of human breeding facilities filled with women who had their limbs chopped off, tongue cut out, eyes gouged out, and they're all pregnant.


That was exactly the book series that made me give up on 40k as a setting. The real life fascists who don't get that they're the joke are now running the place.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

LashLightning posted:

You could save a lot of ten-dollar words and just say "working class". :imunfunny:
It's fine. Unlike the working class, I can afford them.

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZseWLF2YgCs

Not really a serious mod but it's still pretty funny.

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Cythereal posted:

Back when 40k was satire, they were a football hooligans joke.

Now there's a book series out there about a super-Ork empire that once nearly conquered the Imperium and farmed humans for food with loving descriptions of human breeding facilities filled with women who had their limbs chopped off, tongue cut out, eyes gouged out, and they're all pregnant.


That was exactly the book series that made me give up on 40k as a setting. The real life fascists who don't get that they're the joke are now running the place.

Thankfully the 8th edition material has gotten much better with regards to taking things with some more black humor. Ghazghkull Thraka went to the Octarius war where orjs and nids were ripping into each other and had a grand old time

Kikas
Oct 30, 2012

Discendo Vox posted:

Wait till you see what we're doing to the AI in the payday 2 crackdown mod. It turns out there were several layers of buggy interference blocking intended enemy behaviors...and after we removed those, we started adding new AI on top of it.

Will clearing up all of this improve the framerates of Payday 2? I was suprised to see it still chugged on modern systems when I tried playing during Christmas.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Kikas posted:

Will clearing up all of this improve the framerates of Payday 2? I was suprised to see it still chugged on modern systems when I tried playing during Christmas.

Yes, plus we've cut the enemy cap down to about 60% of the old values. The outcomes are hard to fully predict because we're touching a lot of low-level systems at this point. Some of the very last maps released, though, have profound optimization issues (think "this set of rooms have an open occlusion seam and render the entire map if you look West"), and nothing will fix those short of remaking those maps.


...we're looking into doing that, too, eventually, maybe.

Shady Amish Terror posted:

Some of these problems, especially the personnel churn, can probably be attributed directly to the apparent general toxicity of the work environment itself, given the outward clues of waves of people quitting, the offices being raided in relation to tax crimes, and the repeated increasingly weird appeals to fringe alt-right ideas and symbols.

Granted, I understand those issues might be outside of the scope of a mod to address. :v:

I think you might be getting some info crossed- whatever its other problems, Starbreeze didn't have a remotely chuddy reputation, and the investigation was insider trading, not taxes. The waves of people quitting, etc, were pretty much all centered around Bo Andersson. This Eurogamer article describes maybe 70% of the events in question. Whatever other bad decisionmakers were involved (and there were other very bad decisionmakers involved), Bo is generally understood to be the person who managed to take a remarkably (perhaps undeservedly) successful company and drive it inexorably into the ground.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Feb 20, 2020

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Discendo Vox posted:

Yes, plus we've cut the enemy cap down to about 60% of the old values. Some of the very last maps released, though, have profound optimization issues (think "this set of rooms have an open occlusion seam and render the entire map if you look West"), and nothing will fix those short of remaking those maps.


...we're looking into doing that, too, eventually, maybe.


I think you might be getting some info crossed- whatever its other problems, Starbreeze didn't have a remotely chuddy reputation, and the investigation was insider trading, not taxes. The waves of people quitting, etc, were pretty much all centered around Bo Andersson. This Eurogamer article describes maybe 70% of the events in question. Whatever other bad decisionmakers were involved (and there were other very bad decisionmakers involved), Bo is generally understood to be the person who managed to take a remarkably (perhaps undeservedly) successful company and drive it inexorably into the ground.

Any chance you guys can mod in proper Index Controller support too?

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Any chance you guys can mod in proper Index Controller support too?

I'll ask around. In the meantime, this thread has a proposed solution:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/30/1646544348832966657/

edit: no, there's been no real modding effort. The apparent codebase for VR controller support is "it just checks if it's a rift then assumes it's a vive if it isn't".

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Feb 20, 2020

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...
Something that occurred to me today: with all the mods there were for RE2Make, was there one that replaced one of the characters with Akuma?

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(

Discendo Vox posted:

I think you might be getting some info crossed- whatever its other problems, Starbreeze didn't have a remotely chuddy reputation, and the investigation was insider trading, not taxes. The waves of people quitting, etc, were pretty much all centered around Bo Andersson. This Eurogamer article describes maybe 70% of the events in question. Whatever other bad decisionmakers were involved (and there were other very bad decisionmakers involved), Bo is generally understood to be the person who managed to take a remarkably (perhaps undeservedly) successful company and drive it inexorably into the ground.

Fair enough on not remembering the crime in question correctly.

As for the other bit, I don't assume the entire office to be assholes or anything, but several things that looked like winks, nods, and nudges started occurring (plot increasingly composed of conspiracy theory wildness, an 'ok' symbol for your multiple tiers of Trump mask, the H3h3 character pack which is sort of an inscrutable move even if you ignore it coinciding with that channel shifting towards appealing to internet chuds at around that time). If this was some weird tangential blip in the game's long, troubled lifetime, then feel free to just append a footnote to the other more visible issues, I guess, but I contend that poo poo is there and looks like more than coincidence.

E: Also, apologies for the tangent, but that felt worth clarifying.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Lipstick Apathy
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/32809

Scandinavian Airlines posted:

Some would find that Skyrim isn't a very diverse and inclusive place. Players may even come away with a mistaken belief that Skyrim is some sort of Nordic homeland or that Nords themselves have a culture, history, and identity. This mod aims to fix that by removing all Nord characters from the game.

What it does:
Removes all nord characters from the game
(Though the player themselves can play as the only nord alive)

Known Issues:

1: Some form of alternate start mod is required.
2: Atleast 90% of the quests are broken.
3: The mod might not even be stable as this obvious bit of sarcasm isn't worth the time
4: If it does work, it's just going to make the game dull, empty, and overall joyless. It's almost as if removing an entire race from existence just makes the world a a duller, lesser, place.

Alright, what did Scandinavian Airlines do?

quote:

“We are no better than our viking ancestors. We take everything we like on our trips abroad, adjust it a little bit, and et viola. It’s a unique Scandinavian thing. Going out into the world inspires us to think big, even though we’re quite small.

In a way, Scandinavia was brought here, piece by piece, by everyday people who found the best of our home away from home. We can’t wait to see what wonderful things you’ll bring home next.”

I see. Why is this not the first time I have found out about something like this from some weirdo making a mod??

Midnight Voyager fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Feb 20, 2020

Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



please keep politics out of games

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



I went to the posts section of that mod to see if it is full of shitheads or people calling out the mod for being bad. It’s the former, but holy poo poo most of these posts are completely incomprehensible. With some of them I can tell they’re trying to be bigoted but they’re so incoherent that I literally cannot parse what they are trying to say.

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

Midnight Voyager posted:

Alright, what did Scandinavian Airlines do?

Commissioned an ad that claimed meatballs and rye bread weren't Scandinavian in origin and the racist nativist segment lost their loving minds to the point where somebody called in a bomb threat to the ad company.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
As dumb as those people are, the suggestion that Scandinavians weren't able to come up with an idea like "make the meat paste into round blobs" independently is weirdly insulting.

Like, I'm pretty sure every culture has someone who invented that spontaneously, it's just that basic.

Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Feb 20, 2020

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

SplitSoul posted:

Commissioned an ad that claimed meatballs and rye bread weren't Scandinavian in origin and the racist nativist segment lost their loving minds to the point where somebody called in a bomb threat to the ad company.

Well, Swedish meatballs actually aren't Swedish. They made a big announcement about it and everything.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Schubalts posted:

Well, Swedish meatballs actually aren't Swedish. They made a big announcement about it and everything.
I actually googled that just because I found it such an unbelievable notion and apparently I was right to be sceptical:

quote:

In 2018 a Swedish Twitter account claimed that what we know as Swedish meatballs are based on a Turkish recipe[12] and King Charles XII used food as a way to help boost the relationships between the two countries.[13] This statement has later been debunked by Swedish ethnologists.[14]

Orv
May 4, 2011
:yikes:

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Ghostlight
Sep 25, 2009

maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me



well according to wikipedia that was debunked by swedish ethnologists by which i mean a professor in swedish ethnology, who, weirdly coincidentally has an entire dissertation project on the politicisation of food culture heritage.


and by debunked i mean he said "no" when asked by a newspaper if it's true.

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