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GORDON posted:If Poe hadn't taken out the dreadnaught, the "fleet killer," then it would have destroyed the Rebel capital ship 10 minutes later when the long "run them out of gas" situation happened. It had the big guns, and they would have reached. Visually and intuitively that seems like it should be the case, but the exposition contradicts that. The dreadnaught is one of several, so if it was possible for it to destroy the Rebel capital ship during the chase, another one would have. It's weird. The visual storytelling and exposition are in conflict more than a couple of times in TLJ.
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Feb 19, 2020 02:45
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Man I to this day don't know why Lucas decided to have Chewbacca hang out with Yoda in episode 3. Like with other characters there are bits which add context to OT scenes: LUKE: You fought in the Clone Wars?! OBI-WAN: [thinking] kid, I started the Clone Wars LUKE: I'm looking for a great warrior. YODA: Wars not make one great. YODA: [thinking] kid, I started the Clone Wars But there's no added context to anything to do with Chewbacca, there's no OT scene where you think "oh man this guy was there when the Jedi were purged and saved Yoda basically helping to set the whole OT in motion" it's just "remember this beloved character" and there's like nothing more to it
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Feb 19, 2020 04:42
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That's because Chewbacca isn't a character
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Feb 19, 2020 04:51
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They wanted to have wookies in Return of the Jedi, but they ended up creating the ewok instead. Technology finally let Lucas have his wookie battle, and Yoda was just put there so we had a reason to see it. And Chewie is there... because... um... he's the whills.
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Feb 19, 2020 04:55
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wyoming posted:They wanted to have wookies in Return of the Jedi, but they ended up creating the ewok instead. Even earlier than that, the Wookiees were originally the ones flying in the battle of Yavin.
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Feb 19, 2020 04:57
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https://twitter.com/sw_holocron/status/1229491065058668544 Oh, thank you for clearing that up in such a satisfactory fashion. Frodo ain't buyin. https://twitter.com/elijahwood/status/1229632586760081409
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Feb 19, 2020 05:06
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Well now that i know that The Sith Eternal fleet seen in #StarWars: #TheRiseofSkywalker was created by Sith cultists on Exegol, who indoctrinated Exegol’s population with Sith values and raised and trained their children to become officers, mechanics and soldiers for the Final Order i like it now
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Feb 19, 2020 05:40
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It at least made a little sense that Palpatine had a massive shipyard and the First Order supplied the manpower. They're flat out telling us that yes, there was an entire planetary civilization of cackling ghouls in black cloaks. But less cool than that sounds.
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Feb 19, 2020 05:49
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2house2fly posted:Man I to this day don't know why Lucas decided to have Chewbacca hang out with Yoda in episode 3. When you encounter something with absolutely no relevance to the plot, that’s where you see narrative at its purest. The Chewbacca scene is specifically a homage to the ending of E.T. - which gives a lot of context for the ‘later’ episodes but, in Episode 3, helps to simply illustrate Yoda’s transition into being a whimsical goblin on the run from the government. It’s also a rare example of a scene that passes the alien equivalent of the Bechtel Test. Recontextualizing Episode 4, the point is that Han absolutely knew about the Jedi and their powers but considered them stupid anyways. It’s also part of Chewbacca’s characterization as an Alien Power militant (and droidophobe). SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 06:54
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GORDON posted:If Poe hadn't taken out the dreadnaught, the "fleet killer," then it would have destroyed the Rebel capital ship 10 minutes later when the long "run them out of gas" situation happened. It had the big guns, and they would have reached. He didn't know that though. Every resistance character believed that you were untraceable once you went into hyperspace. Post hoc justification doesn't work in these cases. Same issue as using "he was no angel" to justify a cop shooting. We examine actions and judgements by what is known in the moment, not in a totalist worldview.
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Feb 19, 2020 08:56
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Halloween Jack posted:It at least made a little sense that Palpatine had a massive shipyard and the First Order supplied the manpower. They're flat out telling us that yes, there was an entire planetary civilization of cackling ghouls in black cloaks. But less cool than that sounds. Say we have a reason to keep at least one Dicked Star Destroyer around. If we run into another Exegol, we can "wipe them out, all of them."
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Feb 19, 2020 10:48
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saw RoSW finally - i didn't think it was as bad as i'd read. it was definitely rushed tho, you could tell they freaked out and backpeddled hard on the last jedi. barely any time to explain, explore or breathe in any plot points. i imagine nothing holds up to much scrutiny because of how rushed and sloppy the writing ended up being. one thing i actually really liked more than i thought i would was Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter - but they should have elaborated more on it and taken far more time with it. maybe at the end of the last jedi Rey and Kylo should have gone off together so they'd have more time to actually bond and explore parentage/themselves in this movie. i would have explored Rey's parents more and made her father seen by Palpatine as the original heir to his legacy, until he was discovered as not being force sensitive at all. would have explained why Palpatine ended up creating another son in Anakin to properly succeed him, which ultimately led to his own downfall, as well as explaining why we haven't heard about this dude for 8 movies. would also explain why he suddenly went after Rey - Anakin ended up a failure and he needed to find a new heir thru his 'failed' first son. also would tie into themes of 'anybody can be a jedi' which we saw in last jedi because it would have shown you can easily be as unable to use to force with powerful parents as being able to use it with parents who can't. anyway, just some random thoughts i had. Kylo Ren and Rey's story together was the main thing in all three movies i really enjoyed and i wish they'd really taken more thought and time with all that. Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Feb 19, 2020 |
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Feb 19, 2020 11:50
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Ingmar terdman posted:Sith values
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Feb 19, 2020 15:45
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Hefty Leftist posted:saw RoSW finally - i didn't think it was as bad as i'd read. it was definitely rushed tho, you could tell they freaked out and backpeddled hard on the last jedi. barely any time to explain, explore or breathe in any plot points. i imagine nothing holds up to much scrutiny because of how rushed and sloppy the writing ended up being. My experience was that the afterglow of seeing a new Star Wars in the theater wore off after about a day and the problems became much more glaring in my mind as time went on. I don't think history will be very kind to the movie, it will probably be remembered as an incoherent mess that capped off a very inconsistent and haphazard trilogy.
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Feb 19, 2020 15:59
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Bogus Adventure posted:More like E.Y.E.: Divine Cybermancy. Anakin's legs aren't okay
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Feb 19, 2020 16:14
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I've come to the horrifying conclusion that I would actually rather watch the prequel trilogy than the sequel trilogy. I don't like either trilogy, but the prequels actually feel like Star Wars to me. Like very bad Star Wars, but Star Wars all the same. The sequels don't feel like anything at all to me. They made such an enormous blunder splitting up the trilogy between different directors; there's nothing that pulls the sequels together. The only things I'm going to remember fondly from the sequel trilogy are: - Daisy Ridley's performance through the first two movies - The John Williams theme for Rey playing as she slides down that hill - Han Solo confronting Kylo Ren - The artwork for when Laura Dern blew up all those Star Destroyers - The 45 seconds of Kylo Ren post-redemption where Adam Driver got to do a Harrison Ford impression That is not much for three movies spanning more than seven hours of runtime.
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Feb 19, 2020 23:33
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2house2fly posted:Man I to this day don't know why Lucas decided to have Chewbacca hang out with Yoda in episode 3. Like with other characters there are bits which add context to OT scenes:
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Feb 19, 2020 23:46
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Chewie just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Even then, he didn't see Yoda do a thousand backflips and cut down a billion droids. Yoda was just hanging out in a command post giving orders, and Chewie sees him decapitate that one trooper who tries to kill him during Order 66. Then they escort him off-planet. There's not much of a story to tell.
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Feb 20, 2020 00:02
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surf rock posted:I've come to the horrifying conclusion that I would actually rather watch the prequel trilogy than the sequel trilogy. You've taken your first steps into a larger world.
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Feb 20, 2020 01:15
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Having watched them all I'll stick with the OT and st, please
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Feb 20, 2020 01:25
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I mean no worries there's lots of great movies there's probably 50+ movies you haven't seen that are better than any Star Wars, watch those instead!
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Feb 20, 2020 01:27
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Guy A. Person posted:I mean no worries there's lots of great movies there's probably 50+ movies you haven't seen that are better than any Star Wars, watch those instead! I don't understand Wait this isn't the RSF 
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Feb 20, 2020 01:37
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surf rock posted:I've come to the horrifying conclusion that I would actually rather watch the prequel trilogy than the sequel trilogy. There’s good stuff buried in the ST but it’s pretty damning the most memorable line is Harrison Ford yelling “Ben!” in a way that words and punctuation doesn’t really have a way to express. The other lines I remember were Luke being sassy and Kylo telling Rey her parents were dead in a ditch. Couldn’t tell you the exact wording. They hosed this franchise up so badly huh.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:02
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I'd still like to see Rian Johnson take a crack at a full Star Wars Trilogy - especially if it somehow stars Daniel Craig as Benoit Blanc, complete with Foghorn Leghorn accent.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:05
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surf rock posted:I've come to the horrifying conclusion that I would actually rather watch the prequel trilogy than the sequel trilogy. Have you... have you seen the pt recently? Because those are major, major words you’re saying
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Feb 20, 2020 02:07
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Calaveron posted:Have you... have you seen the pt recently? Because those are major, major words you’re saying The Prequels are good.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:15
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Calaveron posted:Have you... have you seen the pt recently? Because those are major, major words you’re saying I don't have any plans to watch anything other than the OT soon. But, hell, a prequel list: - Liam Neeson performance as Qui-Gon Jinn in the first movie and Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi in the second and third movies (and hell, everything about Ian McDiarmid's performance, too) - Darth Maul's character design - The podrace scene - Duel of the Fates and the Phantom Menace lightsaber duel - All the Jedi showing up to make the save at Geonosis - Dooku just straight-up embarrassing Anakin - Most of the Mustafar battle That list admittedly isn't significantly longer than my sequel trilogy list, but again, I think there's something about the original trilogy that has some kind of resonance/echo in the prequel trilogy but that is absent from the sequels. I dunno how to describe it.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:22
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surf rock posted:That list admittedly isn't significantly longer than my sequel trilogy list, but again, I think there's something about the original trilogy that has some kind of resonance/echo in the prequel trilogy but that is absent from the sequels. I dunno how to describe it. It's that the prequels are about the society and characters that produced the OT and the sequels are a crappy reproduction of the OT.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:24
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Grievous vs General Kenobi alone has more charm and character than any of the new films.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:39
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Other Stuff in the ST that rules : The sick Kylo lightsaber and voice modulation Finn/Poe Luke being sassy old hermit Yoda ghost being a puppet BB-8 design and execution is flawless Everything else is kinda lacking. It just needed way more time and consistency. Design by committee strikes again I gusss. Also that twitter post revealing Exogol was a Sith planet is silly. I thought they were ghosts. Did the heroes of the story just genocide a Sith culture?
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Feb 20, 2020 02:43
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Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes were also incredibly good works of music. I can't think of any music in the Sequels even half as memorable, or indeed any music unique to the sequels at all.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:43
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The prequels aren't afraid of being ridiculous, mostly. The OT is weirder than most people remember, and the prequels channel that same energy.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:46
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes were also incredibly good works of music. I can't think of any music in the Sequels even half as memorable, or indeed any music unique to the sequels at all.
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Feb 20, 2020 02:56
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The prequels could have been unambiguously good if Lucas had: -Reduced the reliance on CGI, or waited another 5-10 years for the technology to mature (Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are the worst offenders) -Done another script revision or two to remove or rewrite a lot of the dialogue to sound more natural/generally be less terrible -Toned down or removed the sillier and/or kid oriented stuff like Jar-Jar, R2's Adventure in the Droid Factory, and the more ridiculous parts of Obi-Wan and Anakin's lava fight. -Given Hayden Christensen literally any direction other than "a block of wood that talks weird." -Same for Natelie Portman Now granted, it's been a while since I've seen any of the prequels, but at their core there's an interesting story to be told within the films that really only needed a better/different director than Lucas to be fully realized. Meanwhile, for the sequels to be any good and/or tell a coherent story, you'd have to rewrite the whole drat thing. Maybe salvage some of the characters and basic plot hooks, but otherwise you'd need a full overhaul.
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Feb 20, 2020 03:02
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Its pretty clear no one at Disney talked to each other about the direction of the ST. In comparison, Lucas always knew what he was doing with the PT, but with some very dubious execution. I still want a podrace spinoff movie
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Feb 20, 2020 03:12
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Hayden Christensen doesn't always deliver the lines well but upon rewatching the prequels I really enjoy his facial acting. When he's talking about overthrowing Palpatine and he and Padme ruling together his face looks deliciously psycho
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Feb 20, 2020 03:14
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I can't think of any music in the Sequels even half as memorable, or indeed any music unique to the sequels at all. RoS has the worst music in the entire main series and I'm trying to think of any music that stood out at all.
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Feb 20, 2020 03:14
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2house2fly posted:Hayden Christensen doesn't always deliver the lines well but upon rewatching the prequels I really enjoy his facial acting. When he's talking about overthrowing Palpatine and he and Padme ruling together his face looks deliciously psycho His facial expressions are great around that whole point. He's crying as he cuts down the Separatist leaders, and he's so loving furious when he's fighting Obi-Wan.
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Feb 20, 2020 03:43
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I was mixed on the prequels at release, but have grown to appreciate them over the years. My main problem with them was pacing. They all start with a bang (fight down to Naboo and then escape to Tatooine in ep1, assassination attempts and chase scene in ep2, palps rescue and battle in ep3), before slowing right the gently caress down for most of the movie before jamming it back into top gear for the action climaxes. I always just wanted there to be a bit more momentum in the story-telling. Then I saw ep 7 and on first viewing I was internally screaming "Slow down, breath!". It's just so frantic, like it was afraid if it gave the audience a chance to think they would reject it. The worst example is that pointless fight on Han Solo's freighter with the gangs and the monsters. So to TFA's credit, it's too fast pacing helped me appreciate the slower pace of the PT. It's weird how things develop. On initial release A New Hope was viewed as being fast, but if you watch it now it seems slow and measured. Things change as editing styles start adapting I guess.
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Feb 20, 2020 03:45
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garycoleisgod posted:My main problem with them was pacing. They all start with a bang (fight down to Naboo and then escape to Tatooine in ep1, assassination attempts and chase scene in ep2, palps rescue and battle in ep3), before slowing right the gently caress down for most of the movie before jamming it back into top gear for the action climaxes. I always just wanted there to be a bit more momentum in the story-telling. Well, that's basically how the OT works too - Vader boarding Leia's ship, big shootout... then, like, twenty minutes of the droids wandering through the desert.
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Feb 20, 2020 04:31
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