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Palpatine can apparently clone and puppeteer snokes so if sheev in 1-6 is also clone-puppet, that implies episode 9 introduces us to a shev palpatine
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Feb 20, 2020 05:14
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The boss of the red team being a clone bioengineered to have a ludicrous midichlorian count by a hidden villain is by far the best idea in The Rise of Skywalker and one of the best in the whole sequel trilogy, close behind a stormtrooper defector as the main character. I gotta give 'em credit for that, at least.
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Feb 20, 2020 08:26
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I rewatched sith. It's good
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Feb 20, 2020 08:56
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Acebuckeye13 posted:-Reduced the reliance on CGI, or waited another 5-10 years for the technology to mature (Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are the worst offenders) CGI isn't like wine where you can leave it and it'll just 'mature' on it's own; it only advances when people push what they want to do with it. That's what Lucas was doing with the prequels - he wanted to push ILM to do things that had never really been done before (full CGI characters, CGI armies, face replacement, stuff like that) and also do it in a way that didn't cost the Earth to do. In the Phantom Menace making of documentary you can see him talking to ILM about how it's not just the fact that they have to work out how to do these things, but to do them in a way that's actually affordable because once other filmmakers see what's possible with CGI they'll all want to do it too. And he was right.
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Feb 20, 2020 09:35
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Bongo Bill posted:The boss of the red team being a clone bioengineered to have a ludicrous midichlorian count by a hidden villain is by far the best idea in The Rise of Skywalker and one of the best in the whole sequel trilogy, close behind a stormtrooper defector as the main character. I gotta give 'em credit for that, at least. Imagine of either of these things had been anything more than set dressing
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Feb 20, 2020 13:49
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Stairmaster posted:I rewatched sith. It's good That first minute of relative calm leading up to the reveal of the battle is especially awesome.
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Feb 20, 2020 14:53
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I wonder how much it'd cost to rent out a screen at a movie theater and then use it for a Goon Meet'n'Greet to watch a Star Wars film marathon... Watch the movies with friends and go full Rifftrax/MTS3K on it - it's a lot of fun
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Feb 20, 2020 18:00
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The Prequels gave us Clone Wars which is the only good thing to come from that trilogy as far as TV/movies go.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:43
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PJOmega posted:He didn't know that though. Every resistance character believed that you were untraceable once you went into hyperspace. But does it matter? His justification for taking out the big boat was that, "it's a fleet killer!" He didn't want their fleet killed, so he attacked it against orders. Just because it kept the fleet from getting killed ten minutes later does not negate his justification. I remember a lot of talk about "it just shows star wars aint doing toxic masculinity any more," like a message was being sent. But in the story on the screen, the entire rebellion would have been wiped out easily without his solving problems by "jumping in his x-wing and blowing stuff up." And again, he was slapped, ridiculed, and demoted over it. GORDON fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 20, 2020 21:13
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It was a target of opportunity that in any sane military he would absolutely have the authority and justification to attack once he accomplished his primary mission. Really all that scene sets up is that Holdo and Leia are kind of incompetent as commanders.
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Feb 20, 2020 21:24
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The string of horrifically bad luck is what makes Poe look like an idiot for throwing so many lives away and barely accomplishing the mission No plan survives contact Really, if you wanna blame anyone, blame the A-Wing pilots who didn't do their jobs of protecting the bombers at all
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Feb 20, 2020 21:27
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Simplex posted:It was a target of opportunity that in any sane military he would absolutely have the authority and justification to attack once he accomplished his primary mission. The idea I think is that there's barely even a Resistance fleet left and escape is their #1 priority. Once he takes out the cannons and clears the way for their escape, spending more time trying to take down the ship just puts pilots and bombers in danger which is something that isn't worth it considering the state of the fleet. They don't just have another set of bombers to send out there, taking down that ship basically expended all of them. And apparently Leia didn't think it was an equal trade.
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Feb 20, 2020 21:27
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He nearly lost them the Star War
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Feb 20, 2020 21:29
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Vinylshadow posted:I wonder how much it'd cost to rent out a screen at a movie theater and then use it for a Goon Meet'n'Greet to watch a Star Wars film marathon... you know you have to ask disney (and probably pay them) to be able to do this and they absolutely will not give you permission
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Feb 20, 2020 21:46
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Basebf555 posted:The idea I think is that there's barely even a Resistance fleet left and escape is their #1 priority. Once he takes out the cannons and clears the way for their escape, spending more time trying to take down the ship just puts pilots and bombers in danger which is something that isn't worth it considering the state of the fleet. They don't just have another set of bombers to send out there, taking down that ship basically expended all of them. And apparently Leia didn't think it was an equal trade. Sure, but at some point in time you are going to have to take out that dreadnought to win the war. It's there, they were already engaged with it, that may very well be the best opportunity they would ever have to destroy it. It would be one thing if Poe neglected his responsibility to help the fleet escape in order to take it out. But once the fleet was safe attacking that ship was the logical thing to do.
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Feb 20, 2020 21:57
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Simplex posted:Sure, but at some point in time you are going to have to take out that dreadnought to win the war. It's there, they were already engaged with it, that may very well be the best opportunity they would ever have to destroy it. It would be one thing if Poe neglected his responsibility to help the fleet escape in order to take it out. But once the fleet was safe attacking that ship was the logical thing to do. I feel like they really needed a line of dialogue like, "Because you extended your attack run against orders, X thing happened and now we lost our opportunity to escape!" Like it was the 30-minute delay from the extra attack that pushed their fuel levels to critical or whatever. Maybe there is something like that and I don't remember? But overall, The Last Jedi seemed to be pushing "don't take risks" and "you can't win through sacrifice," neither of which feels very Star Wars-y given that this is the don't-tell-me-the-odds universe. I guess it's more realistic on a literal strategic level, but that's not really what I'm looking for from Star Wars. I guess it could work, but in that event I'd want #7 and #9 to be pushing the same message for consistency's sake.
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Feb 20, 2020 22:06
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Where did all those ships come from in tlj
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Feb 20, 2020 22:09
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surf rock posted:But overall, The Last Jedi seemed to be pushing "don't take risks" and "you can't win through sacrifice," Except Holdo, who helped them win through an incredibly risky sacrifice.
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Feb 20, 2020 22:14
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surf rock posted:I feel like they really needed a line of dialogue like, "Because you extended your attack run against orders, X thing happened and now we lost our opportunity to escape!" Like it was the 30-minute delay from the extra attack that pushed their fuel levels to critical or whatever. Maybe there is something like that and I don't remember? The literal events of the plot fundamentally don’t make sense, so you’re left to rely on how the characters feel about randomness. Leia is sad at the start and happy at the end, therefore Poe became a good commander.
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Feb 20, 2020 22:19
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Stairmaster posted:Where did all those ships come from in tlj Space billionaires
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Feb 20, 2020 22:26
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Ingmar terdman posted:Space billionaires Lando went to casino planet and rallied the other rich guys who owned spaceships
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Feb 20, 2020 22:28
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Lando went to casino planet and rallied the other rich guys who owned spaceships My headcanon is that the last jedi yacht belongs to lando, pablo be damned
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Feb 20, 2020 22:43
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Asgerd posted:Except Holdo, who helped them win through an incredibly risky sacrifice. That's a fair point; what's the difference between what Holdo does and what Finn was trying to do? In both cases, they're making a one-person sacrifice in the belief that it's necessary to save the Resistance.
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Feb 20, 2020 22:45
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surf rock posted:That's a fair point; what's the difference between what Holdo does and what Finn was trying to do? In both cases, they're making a one-person sacrifice in the belief that it's necessary to save the Resistance. Finn's sacrifice wasn't going to accomplish anything but disintegrating him and his little skimmer.
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Feb 20, 2020 23:01
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If we take poes word seriously which the rest of the film apparently doesn't want us to
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Feb 21, 2020 00:40
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Yeah TLJ has some ideas and themes which puts it head-and-shoulders above the other sequels, but it's also filled with mixed messages and is overall very muddled and not really satisfying to watch.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:14
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Basebf555 posted:The idea I think is that there's barely even a Resistance fleet left and escape is their #1 priority. Once he takes out the cannons and clears the way for their escape, spending more time trying to take down the ship just puts pilots and bombers in danger which is something that isn't worth it considering the state of the fleet. They don't just have another set of bombers to send out there, taking down that ship basically expended all of them. And apparently Leia didn't think it was an equal trade. Pretty much this. I remember during one of the Sten series (pretty cool mil-sci-fi book series with a highly developed sense of humor and fun), one of the bits at a chapter's end was lengthy list of casualties inflicted by the good guys at the cost of one of the good guys' ships. The final statement: A tremendous victory for the bad guys. Because at that point the good guys had four, now three, ships while the bad guys still had tens of thousands.
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Feb 21, 2020 03:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The literal events of the plot fundamentally don’t make sense, so you’re left to rely on how the characters feel about randomness.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:20
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Timeless Appeal posted:Nah there is a clear moment of growth where Poe actually assesses things and realizes that Luke is creating a distraction. did luke not just tell them thats what he was doing??? It's been a while, I had the impression that he did.
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Feb 21, 2020 04:27
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Stairmaster posted:Where did all those ships come from in tlj Each of the sequels has a big fleet either appear or disappear with zero explanation
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Feb 21, 2020 04:36
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:did luke not just tell them thats what he was doing??? But yeah, there's a very defined moment of Poe realizing that it's a distraction and saying, "He's doing this for a reason. He's stalling so we can escape."
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Feb 21, 2020 04:40
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Though it does raise the question of why Luke didn't say he was going to stall. Obviously the reason is that it was intended to be a Moment for Poe to realise it, and also for "I came to face him, and I can't save him" to function as misdirection since the viewer will interpret it as "I came to kill him" instead of "I came to keep him busy". But, you know, there's no reason for the character not to say it
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Feb 21, 2020 05:10
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2house2fly posted:Though it does raise the question of why Luke didn't say he was going to stall. Obviously the reason is that it was intended to be a Moment for Poe to realise it, and also for "I came to face him, and I can't save him" to function as misdirection since the viewer will interpret it as "I came to kill him" instead of "I came to keep him busy". But, you know, there's no reason for the character not to say it
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Feb 21, 2020 05:24
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I just realized that Exegol is North Korea.
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Feb 21, 2020 07:23
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Timeless Appeal posted:Nah there is a clear moment of growth where Poe actually assesses things and realizes that Luke is creating a distraction. Poe didn’t have a problem with assessing things. Because causality is broken, you’re forced to work backwards. Poe assesses things and everyone feels good, therefore he must have had trouble earlier. But he didn’t.
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Feb 21, 2020 07:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
this was always the case
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Feb 21, 2020 11:50
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Poe didn’t have a problem with assessing things.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:12
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Timeless Appeal posted:Without getting into the Holdo stuff, he ignores Leia's orders in the beginning of the film and almost fucks everything up by jumping to hyperspace before Leia stops him. He absolutely does have a problem with assessing things. Ignoring orders is not a problem with assessment. So basically that leaves the fact that he doesn’t immediately intuit, based on limited evidence, that “impossible” hyperspace tracking exists. And his arc is just to improve from that brief exposition scene? Poe’s actual arc, or the closest thing to an actual arc, is to accept that distracting people with prank phone calls is enough of a victory. When Holdo draws the baddies’ attention away from the shuttles: “oh this is like my prank phone call scene”. When Luke uses Force Skype to prank Kylo: “oh this is like my prank phone call scene”. After Poe did the prank phone call, Leia said, “you did it, Poe! [You did a prank phone call!] Now get your squad back here.” Leia believes prank phone calls are enough. When Poe declares that prank phone calls aren’t enough, Leia basically flops over dead with pure sadness. The movie’s not subtle about this - but it is nonetheless tough for people to follow because it’s extremely stupid.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:59
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Until that exact point in ROTJ, Vader fully identifies with his ethical mask, which stands for (among other things) his absolute lack of any pathological attachment to the Republic. 
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Feb 21, 2020 16:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ignoring orders is not a problem with assessment. Well, sometimes prank phone calls really are enough. The objective at the beginning of the movie was to get the Resistance off-planet and away. Poe's "phone call" did that. Mission accomplished. So, Leia told him to break off the bluff attack and bring his still intact squadron back to the fleet so they could all haul rear end. He refused and then chopped his bombers into cat meat so they could take out one First Order capital ship to no good purpose. There was no good purpose because the First Order had plenty of other capital ships. In terms of "Star Wars as WWII" this was Dunkirk. The victory here was getting out alive to fight another day. Poe disobeyed orders and in so doing robbed the people under his command of that victory.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:24
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