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Angry Salami posted:...Seven was never in Starfleet, though? And on Voyager she constantly disagreed with Janeway's Starfleet policies, and turned a wounded alien over to the Hirogen to be killed. You’re right. Also I never saw the Hirogen episode or knew the connection to Ichbel. I won’t try to be so annoyed about established characters whose entire series I haven’t seen. After all, I am still going to keep watching. Hed fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 13:56
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Ok here it goes: A lot of that fell flat to me because it wasn't earned. Icheb being butchered to "hurt" the dickhead actor doesn't fly with me. Don't include him in the show at all, meta point scoring doesn't make compelling TV especially when we're still being asked to care about this character's relationship with Seven in the same scene. However I doubt it was really intended solely as a gently caress you to the actor, since the writer has written a bunch of Voyager novels and probably just wanted to reference its characters. But it's still a tonal misstep. As I said before, starting the episode with a live vivisection just soured the mood for a light heist caper with goofy pimp hats rather than revealing it towards the end for an unexpected gut punch. It's also revealing Seven's ulterior motivations up front and the characters again play catch up with the audience. Both Raffi's son and Maddox's death also felt hollow to me. The first we learn of Raffi's son's existence is the same scene where he very predictably rejected her in a scene that seems more about keeping her character in the show when her "I'll help you, but only since it serves my ends" premise expired once they reached Freecloud. Same with Maddox, we don't know this version of the character at all, he's a maguffin. Picard got the info he needed, his character's plot purpose has been fulfilled and revealing his relationship with Agnes just before killing him doesn't give it any more weight. Then we get the awful Vajazzle extended dialogue scene where the cartoon villain just tells us their history with Seven. The confrontation makes little sense, they're robbing her of a valuable asset, so leaving her alive is hardly likely to prevent the bounty situation that killing her would apparently ensure? It seems like Rios is just saying this as cover to humour Picard since he then enables her revenge by slipping Seven the transporter disc thing that apparently allows her to beam back to the club where Vajazzle is still dicking around with those two guards. The message of the show is very much that Picard and the idealism of old Trek is naive and incompatibile with reality. Vajazzle is shown to be someone absolutely worth killing and Seven is framed as the badass hero with accompanying Voyager fanfare. Picard is ineffectual and his career is described by Seven as one of "misguided diplomacy". He doesn't offer a compelling argument to spare Vajazzle or an alternative to hold her accountable and he is either stupid or resigned to his own ineffectualness when he lets Seven leave with a couple of machine guns. This isn't to say the show hasn't been consistent in its messaging, it absolutely has and I can't fault it there. So I don't understand how anyone can argue that it's at all compatible with the spirit of the older shows, it's a deliberate refutation because the writers don't imagine a future that doesnt repeat the cycles of the present. Picard saving the day and putting everything right at the end would be a huge stretch by this point. How compelling you find this probably depends on what the original appeal of Star Trek to you actually was. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 14:12
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when Elnor acted like an ignored puppy when he didn't get a targeted holographic spam ad was when I knew he was my favorite. considering this was his first time off-planet without the nuns I wish he'd gotten more screentime with Picard but Seven's ridiculously conveniently located vendetta took up the whole episode. they should have worked her into when they were finally getting to the Borg cube instead of blow her on the stupid Borg chop shop stuff which felt like an excuse for a cameo and exposition to remind the audience Picard was a BorgDrink-Mix Man posted:Hey, what do you think that guy was talking about when he referred to Seven as not being one of the "new ones" in regards to Borg? just in case this is still somehow going over peoples' heads, Picard was referring to Seven being raised in the Collective from a baby instead of assimilated as an adult Autism Sneaks fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 14:21
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It seemed like she needed to be put some place where she can't harm anyone anymore, either jail or death if jail isn't a feasible option. It's like Picard thought that criminals can be talked into redemption with 0% chance of recidivism on the spot. Talking things out and trusting as a substitute for jail can only make sense when someone has been working for another faction and has turned traitor, or during international diplomacy, when there may be ways to test and be sure of sincerity and motives. That's all I remember Picard applying that toward in TNG. It doesn't work as well for criminal impulses of violence and greed, in which case rehabilitation has to be balanced with the need to make sure that they don't hurt anyone until then. They seemed to be conflating those two situations.
galenanorth fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 14:33
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galenanorth posted:It seemed like she needed to be put some place where she can't harm anyone anymore, either jail or death if jail isn't a feasible option. It's like Picard thought that criminals can be talked into redemption with 0% chance of recidivism on the spot. Talking things out and trusting as a substitute for jail can only make sense when someone has been working for another faction and has turned traitor, or during international diplomacy, when there may be ways to test and be sure of sincerity and motives. That's all I remember Picard applying that toward in TNG. It doesn't work as well for criminal impulses of violence and greed, in which case rehabilitation has to be balanced with the need to make sure that they don't hurt anyone until then. They seemed to be conflating those two situations. You've just thought about it more than Beyer likely did. I suspect they just wanted to have it both ways, Picard gets to say the "right" words in his speech while Seven's actions deal the necessary justice. It's pragmatism with the veneer of idealism.
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Feb 21, 2020 14:43
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Nullsmack posted:I liked the EMH bit where he showed up and switched from psychological emergency mode to "What is your medical emergency" when he noticed what was happening. It's a little weird though because he automatically activates for when you're stressed out but not for when you're dying? Or it has a higher priority? This EMH seems to only be able to act as an advisor and not give treatment himself unlike a Starfleet EMH. Maybe it's even connected to the whole thing against sentient AIs? Edit: \/ oh right. I misremembered that scene. Perhaps he requires the patient's explicit approval then? Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 15:02
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Mokinokaro posted:This EMH seems to only be able to act as an advisor and not give treatment himself unlike a Starfleet EMH. Maybe it's even connected to the whole thing against sentient AIs? That's not true, he was directly treating the captains wound earlier.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:05
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Mokinokaro posted:This EMH seems to only be able to act as an advisor and not give treatment himself unlike a Starfleet EMH. Maybe it's even connected to the whole thing against sentient AIs? Hey that would be an interesting detail if even holograms are now restricted to not being able to have physical interaction. Would cripple Quark's business model. I don't think this is the case though, since he tries to heal Rios and the tactical hologram can still fire weapons on a starship.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:07
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Yeah I forgot that earlier scene. Perhaps he can't act without implicit orders. Like he's not allowed to have his own agency.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:09
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah I forgot that earlier scene. That would make sense. I wonder how long Agnes can keep up the charade. First thing you'd think they'd do is activate the emh for an autopsy.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:14
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Lizard Combatant posted:That would make sense. I wonder how long Agnes can keep up the charade. First thing you'd think they'd do is activate the emh for an autopsy. The EMH made it seem like she was cutting off the treatment that was healing him, instead of introducing something new to poison him. Most likely the reveal will happen when Raffi notices some strange activity and checks the EMH logs
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Feb 21, 2020 15:38
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Also, what were peoples' opinions on the Gabe & Raffi scene? TBQH, the concept of just absolutely loathing your parent in such a way is so foreign to me, it made the scene hit pretty hard.
Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 15:39
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Also, what were peoples' opinions on the Gabe & Raffi scene? TBQH, the concept of just absolutely loathing your parent in such a way is so foreign to me, it made the scene hit pretty hard. It was pretty true to life with me, having had pretty much that exact conversation (without the conspiracy stuff) with my father before.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:47
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Also, what were peoples' opinions on the Gabe & Raffi scene? TBQH, the concept of just absolutely loathing your parent in such a way is so foreign to me, it made the scene hit pretty hard. TBH, I thought it was a bit clumsy. It would have worked so much better if they hadn’t introduced the concept of her son in the very scene in which he appears. It would have been very easy to just have Raffi tell Picard “my son is on Freecloud, and I’ll be staying with him once we get there”. Then use just a handful of lines in the ensuing episodes to show that she was excited to see him. THEN have the crushing blow of her getting thrown onto the curb by him.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:48
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Also, what were peoples' opinions on the Gabe & Raffi scene? TBQH, the concept of just absolutely loathing your parent in such a way is so foreign to me, it made the scene hit pretty hard. I’m just wondering what her purpose is going to be moving forward on this show. So far she feels like she doesn’t need to be there.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:50
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Seems pretty hosed up you'd even be able to deactivate the EMH in a life-threatening situation, sort of akin to breaking one of Asimov's laws.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:50
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Also, what were peoples' opinions on the Gabe & Raffi scene? TBQH, the concept of just absolutely loathing your parent in such a way is so foreign to me, it made the scene hit pretty hard. I wrote what didn't work for me structurally here: But in character terms, it's an understandable reaction if more than a little predictable for this show. There's other ways you could play that scene and get the same end result of Raffi returning to the ship. Is there no place in this show for compassion? What if the son had been like "Hey that's great that you're sober, but I'm not ready for you to be a steady part of my life yet. Clearly the obsessions you had back then still consume you and I can't take a backseat to them again. Come back when you've sorted them out, and have a chance at a family." "I hate you, I hate you, I hate you" and barely contained rage is just the most obvious choice and it gets boring after a while.
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Feb 21, 2020 15:52
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Delthalaz posted:I just hope we get to see more gruesome human vivisections. I know that's why I used to tune in to Star Trek: The Next Generation. Not to mention people who hate each other, drug addicts living in meth trailers, grotesque material inequality, and murdererous cutthroats eager to torture and kill motivated solely by greed. I guess it's kind-of a relief to find out that better things simply aren't possible: people are poo poo today and we'll be poo poo in a few hundred years for many of the same reasons. This show is so poo poo. I'm almost mad Patrick Stewart hasn't rebuffed the writers for this god awful script.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:03
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On the other hand, when Raffi said 'I'm clean,' she was lying through her teeth. She was smoking up a few days prior. Being off the snake leaf for a few days doesn't constitute being 'clean.' On the gripping hand, if her crazy conspiracy talk winds up being crazy, and she winds up vindicated, it sets up the predictable reunion where she gets to hold her granddaughter. When Picard sent Seven back down to the bar, he clearly knew exactly what she was doing, and approved, if somewhat unwillingly. My hot take: Oh is indeed a straight-up Vulcan. The 'Council of 8' is a cross-species secret cabal dedicated to keeping the artificial man down. Section 31 is Starfleet's representation on the council. The Zhat Vash is the Romulan's. Elron is a treasure, and far better than Baby Yoda.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:05
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This thread owns
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Feb 21, 2020 16:07
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The rich people in the nutrek universe just park their ships next to a supergiant star and just do drugs for a few years while on earth only like 15 minutes passes. (The poors get hassled by racist earth cops)
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Feb 21, 2020 16:18
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Jean Eric Burn posted:The rich people in the nutrek universe just park their ships next to a supergiant star and just do drugs for a few years while on earth only like 15 minutes passes. And they don't even have synths to punch down on anymore.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:21
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Can you be 'clean' and still down a bottle of Chateau Picard? I honestly don't know the levels of discipline people are generally meant to maintain in those circumstances. Otherwise she broke pretty fast. Maybe that's the reason for the isolation. still giggling at vajazzle
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Feb 21, 2020 16:25
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Jean Eric Burn posted:The rich people in the nutrek universe just park their ships next to a supergiant star and just do drugs for a few years while on earth only like 15 minutes passes. Whats the point? You get older and your health is ruined
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Feb 21, 2020 16:25
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gohmak posted:This show is so poo poo. I'm almost mad Patrick Stewart hasn't rebuffed the writers for this god awful script. It's especially bizarre given that one of Stewart's favorite stories he tells at a lot of conventions is about this cop who wrote him fanmail once telling him that no matter how many lovely things he saw on the job, he could always come home from work and watch some TNG to make him feel that things would get better someday. Apparently not anymore!
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Feb 21, 2020 16:30
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Every time I see someone type "nutrek" I pronounce it in my head "nut wreck."
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Feb 21, 2020 16:33
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So it was implied that Vajazzle and Seven were a thing, right? I didn’t miss that?
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Feb 21, 2020 16:35
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Whats the point? You get older and your health is ruined It would work the other way around anyway, time would pass faster on Earth so you get to "travel" into the future instead (drugs or no drugs) 
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Feb 21, 2020 16:42
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FlamingLiberal posted:So it was implied that Vajazzle and Seven were a thing, right? I didn’t miss that? Yes. It's not explicit but certainly implied. Guess that's not going anywhere now... very satisfied that "vajazzle" is catching on, my work here is done
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Feb 21, 2020 16:46
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The actor that plays Elron is a national treasure. He's just so excited to be there on the new Ready Room episode.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:48
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I really, really thought Bjayzl was a Betazoid. Between the name, her manner of speaking, her weird clothes, her hair and her makeup, I got an extremely Betazoid impression.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:50
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Brawnfire posted:I really, really thought Bjayzl was a Betazoid. Between the name, her manner of speaking, her weird clothes, her hair and her makeup, I got an extremely Betazoid impression. In a better version of this episode she would have been, and the whole scene with Rios and Vup would have been her and Rios instead.
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Feb 21, 2020 16:55
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Brawnfire posted:I really, really thought Bjayzl was a Betazoid. Between the name, her manner of speaking, her weird clothes, her hair and her makeup, I got an extremely Betazoid impression.   Oh god, super secret Troi sister?
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Feb 21, 2020 16:56
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Lizard Combatant posted:
I had to look it up to make sure it wasn't the same actress who plays Tahani's sister on The Good Place: 
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Feb 21, 2020 17:00
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I was thinking that as soon as she showed up. She looks very Betazoid.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:00
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Not just a betazoid, it seems like they intentionally went with someone who looks incredibly similar to troi -- to the degree that if you caught the show at a glance you would mistake her for Troi.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:04
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Snow Cone Capone posted:In a better version of this episode she would have been, and the whole scene with Rios and Vup would have been her and Rios instead. See I thought that's what they were going to use Elron for at first. Trick the kid with a false plan so he's running interference on the Reptiloid (???) as he radiates pure wholesome candour. While the real plan is happening under the surface. Classic heist bullshit.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:06
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piratepilates posted:a glance you would mistake her for Troi. I plead guilty.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:12
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piratepilates posted:Not just a betazoid, it seems like they intentionally went with someone who looks incredibly similar to troi -- to the degree that if you caught the show at a glance you would mistake her for Troi. Which I did for at least half a second, which is pretty long for someone whose face I know as well as Sirtis as Troi.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:13
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Brawnfire posted:Which I did for at least half a second, which is pretty long for someone whose face I know as well as Sirtis as Troi. For an Android, that is nearly an eternity.
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Feb 21, 2020 17:14
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