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Snow Cone Capone posted:EBBH (Emergency Bonzi Buddy Hologram) COMPUTER, TURN OFF THAT NOISE
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Feb 21, 2020 21:54
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This was a memorable episode precisely because it was an outlier about one man acting outside the bounds of protocol and civilized society, not the entire plot of the show. And he had to be manipulated into assassinating that Romulan senator by a former Cardassian secret agent! But yeah I totally wanted to see Seven of Nine wind up being a murderous revenge-fuelled vigilante that duel wields phaser guns. That's super rad. They still have what, five episodes left to turn this boat around and do something notable or positive or at least something that doesn't feel like it's been ripped off from a half dozen other things that have been made over the past 15 years, and I hope they do. But after this past episode I'm starting to feel like it's not going to happen.
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Feb 21, 2020 21:55
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Snow Cone Capone posted:EBBH (Emergency Bonzi Buddy Hologram) I thought the Red Bolian thing was really funny, though I don't buy that Agnes had never seen such an ad. Tighclops posted:This was a memorable episode precisely because it was an outlier about one man acting outside the bounds of protocol and civilized society, not the entire plot of the show. And he had to be manipulated into assassinating that Romulan senator by a former Cardassian secret agent! Or what you'll quit watching? lmao
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Feb 21, 2020 21:55
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marktheando posted:The original idea for the First Order was pretty good, kind of "what if the nazis who fled to south america successfully set up their own country and started doing nazi poo poo over there." I think part of the "doing nazi poo poo over there" part involved slowly building up that massive fleet over decades, but they absolutely gloss over that in the movie. I think the Aftermath novels go a little more into detail (and maybe the new Thrawn books too?)
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Feb 21, 2020 21:55
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zoux posted:What's the 24th century equivalent of the Yahoo Search Bar  You have no idea how hard it was to find this guy, considering I only half remember him from an episode I saw like 30 years ago. I finally remembered both Lwaxana and Alexander were in the holodeck, so googled episodes with them and found this fucker. MichiganCubbie fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 22:00
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zoux posted:Or what you'll quit watching? lmao If this first season ends as unfortunately as the rest of the show has been playing out so far then... yeah? Unless they give everybody Commodore Cool sunglasses then I'm onboard for seven seasons
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Feb 21, 2020 22:02
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Alright, so here's my two cents about some of the complaints on this page: A) We're not being shown the "grimdark" Federation, we're being shown the outskirts of the Federation, along the lines of planets we've already seen like Nimbus III, those Orion crime planets from DS9, and all those seedy alien bars they had to stop at in various episodes of TNG. B) This isn't a show about Picard being naive, it's a show about him having thrown in the towel and getting high on his own farts, and being confronted with the consequences of that. (Which parallels the political situation with Starfleet having become semi-isolationist.) The moral isn't "abandon all hope", it's "never stop fighting the good fight, because this bad stuff will happen." It focuses on the consequences of a mistake, which is different than "you were wrong to try in the first place." I dunno, it seems to be kind of saying "stop daydreaming about the fantasy past or future, or wallowing in your defeat. Get out there in this hosed up world and do something."
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Feb 21, 2020 22:02
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zoux posted:I'll point out that the generally best and most widely beloved episodes of all Star Treks are "grim dark" like Yesterday's Enterprise, ItPM, BoBW, mirror universe eps, Parallels, Year of Hell, etc. I'm pretty sure to anyone complaining about the tone of the show that isn't a shitposter the idea of something being grim dark doesn't mean "isn't happy enough" but means "replaces writing and development for flat dour tropes to attempt to imply tension that isn't established and so feels really lazy and cheap". ItPM is the 143rd episode of a show, they're in a war, it's a whole thing and everyone's pretty bummed about constant death and destruction and the looming defeat to tyrannical puddle jerks. It created the stakes and set up the scenario for Sisko to deal with and decide "I'm okay with what I know was a hosed up thing to do" and not "bad things are bad and that's okay because I can recognize it". Picard just keeps having characters say "federation dumb! they don't care!" and that's lazy and boring and doesn't mean anything. e: MichiganCubbie posted:You have no idea how hard it was to find this guy, considering I only half remember him from an episode I saw like 30 years ago. I finally remembered both Lwaxana and Alexander were in the holodeck, so googled episodes with them and found this fucker. I appreciate the effort.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:03
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MichiganCubbie posted:
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Feb 21, 2020 22:05
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Think about how many people you know who would 100% click through a program installation sequence without noticing they forgot to uncheck the "YES I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO INSTALL THIS INTRUSIVE MALWARE SEARCH BAR" box on step 3 and tell me it's unreasonable that turning your ship's control over to Darknet Planet for a landing sequence wouldn't open you up to pop-up ads e: also on the other side, think about how much tangible effort is put in by companies to obfuscate poo poo like that during installs, etc.; how hard they make it to opt-out of bullshit when you sign up for things, etc.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:07
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Lazy and boring are lazy and boring criticisms that don’t mean anything
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Feb 21, 2020 22:08
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Do you think the TOS crowd had similarly visceral reactions to TNG/DS9? I'm actually kind of curious.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:10
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Do you think the TOS crowd had similarly visceral reactions to TNG/DS9? I'm actually kind of curious. TOS crowd didn't have any other options really
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Feb 21, 2020 22:12
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MichiganCubbie posted:
 Snow Cone Capone posted:Do you think the TOS crowd had similarly visceral reactions to TNG/DS9? I'm actually kind of curious. 
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Feb 21, 2020 22:13
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Do you think the TOS crowd had similarly visceral reactions to TNG/DS9? I'm actually kind of curious.  Fans also hated DS9 because it didn't have a ship, which means it couldn't be Star Trek. Actually the most Star Trek thing about Picard is all the salty fans proclaiming it not Star Trek.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:15
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Yep, people certainly did have opinions in the past and that surely invalidates anyone's current criticisms of recent series' which will no doubt be remembered as groundbreaking programming in the years to come
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Feb 21, 2020 22:17
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Tighclops posted:Yep, people certainly did have opinions in the past and that surely invalidates anyone's current criticisms of recent series' which will no doubt be remembered as groundbreaking programming in the years to come I was honestly just curious but ok
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Feb 21, 2020 22:18
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Do you think the TOS crowd had similarly visceral reactions to TNG/DS9? I'm actually kind of curious. Yes they did. You can find tons of old usenet posts of people venting their spleens. "Who's better, Kirk or Picard" was a real thing. So was alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die And the Gillian Anderson Testosterone Brigade, for that matter.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:18
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TheCenturion posted:And the Gillian Anderson Testosterone Brigade, for that matter. ^^Do I want to know?^^ I love that they used professional headshots for everyone, a still from Dune for Patrick Stewart, and I can only imagine a photoshoot from something combining Reading Rainbow and cocaine for LaVar Burton.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:19
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marktheando posted:Do you genuinely think this is where the show is going, because lol if so. Thats a hostile reading to the point of ridiculousness. The Federation was broken and had lost its idealism before the events of the show even began, what with entire species threatening to quit if Starfleet even considered helping the millions of civilians of a wartime ally from being wiped out. But everyone is all "well akshully, after the 9/11 happened on that one shipyard, it makes sense that blah blah blah..." All that poo poo happened later. So what has Picard "not giving up" got to do with anything? He hasn't? And regardless, the show was never just about the individual. Why is the soul of the Federation on his shoulders as apparently its last bastion? And how could he possibly fix it by this point? But let's look at how Picard (as stand in for the Federation of old) is actually portrayed in the most recent episode: Lizard Combatant posted:The message of the show is very much that Picard and the idealism of old Trek is naive and incompatibile with reality. Vajazzle is shown to be someone absolutely worth killing and Seven is framed as the badass hero with accompanying Voyager fanfare. Lizard Combatant posted:I suspect they just wanted to have it both ways, Picard gets to say the "right" words in his speech while Seven's actions deal the necessary justice. It's pragmatism with the veneer of idealism. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 21, 2020 |
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Feb 21, 2020 22:19
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MichiganCubbie posted:I love that they used professional headshots for everyone, a still from Dune for Patrick Stewart, and I can only imagine a photoshoot from something combining Reading Rainbow and cocaine for LaVar Burton. While here in the modern era we see Patrick Stewart as the key role from TNG, back then the casting coups were Levar (famous from Roots) and Wil (famous from Stand by Me), no one knew who the gently caress Stewart was. Tighclops posted:Yep, people certainly did have opinions in the past and that surely invalidates anyone's current criticisms of recent series' which will no doubt be remembered as groundbreaking programming in the years to come Just pointing out the long and proud tradition of stodgy old Trek gatekeepers whining about the new shows 
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Feb 21, 2020 22:21
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MichiganCubbie posted:^^Do I want to know?^^ I can't unsee this now and I can't stop laughing.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:22
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nine-gear crow posted:I can't unsee this now and I can't stop laughing. Cover his eyes up and I can understand why Burton was so annoyed at having to wear the VISOR all the time.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:23
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Cover his eyes up and I can understand why Burton was so annoyed at having to wear the VISOR all the time. It's a mildly hilarious irony that the device that helped Geordi see effectively rendered Burton blind while wearing it.
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Feb 21, 2020 22:24
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Tighclops posted:This show depicts the future that rich people want, presented in a way they think makes it palatable or even desirable to the rest of us 
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Feb 21, 2020 22:30
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TomR posted:This show is saying your beloved Captain Picard is an out of touch old fool and you were an idiot to ever believe the future could be bright. Star Trek has always been a laughable mess of a TV show but it always had the underlying message that the future could be better and here are some heros fighting for that better future. Flawed, silly heros in pyjama uniforms fighting forehead aliens to understand that there is a better way.  Making it all about bumbling Picard, his meth head former first officer who doesn’t like him, and a bunch of randos really makes it clear too. His idealistic naïveté is indicative of his wealth and privilege— people who live in the gritty real world of brutal violence and greed know better because that’s what people are really like. By contrast in TNG (and VOY, DS9) we saw the egalitarian and (although not perfect) utopian environment that produced many good people like Picard, Sisko, etc. They were exceptional individuals but they were most importantly indicative of how humanity had changed and grown from our own time. Picard never told Q “Look at me! I’m a good person! Look at my facile ideals!” It was about how humanity as a whole had evolved to become... different and better. Making this show about the individual Picard is looking like a big mistake.
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Feb 21, 2020 23:55
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The idea that a gigantic intergalactic confederation of planets is entirely reliant on an old, privileged white man not giving up to avoid turning into speciest isolationists is an interesting take, especially considering he quit after they turned into speciest isolationists. If the moral of the show is "Don't give up", and it sure seems to be where they are headed with most of the characters, it will ring completely false to me.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:10
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Delthalaz posted:
By definition, any crew that isn't returning characters could be considered "a bunch of randos" so I'm not really sure what you would prefer there, and the entire arc is all about Picard's idealism driving him to pursue what he believes is right. Picard never told Q "look at me I'm a good person" but he certainly never shied away from telling other people of any species, including his direct superiors if necessary, that what they were doing was wrong, and that he wouldn't condone it or stand for it. Part of the core premise of DS9 is that humanity and other species haven't evolved to become better. The main characters included terrorists, war criminals and corrupt religious officials. Half of the plot developments took place in a seedy bar/casino. Hell, Kasidy Yates was literally a Han Solo-type smuggler hauling illegal cargo for a while and Quark flirted with being an arms dealer more than once.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:12
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Cynic Jester posted:The idea that a gigantic intergalactic confederation of planets is entirely reliant on an old, privileged white man not giving up to avoid turning into speciest isolationists is an interesting take, especially considering he quit after they turned into speciest isolationists. If the moral of the show is "Don't give up", and it sure seems to be where they are headed with most of the characters, it will ring completely false to me. Picard's stated goal isn't to fix the Federation. He'd like to help the Romulans, and he deplores the state the Federation is in, but he is on a quest to save his dead friend's daughter. He understands there's something much, much bigger at play here but like, multiple characters have had to remind him that "hey you should probably not announce your plans to the Federation or literally anybody."
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Feb 22, 2020 00:16
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Delthalaz posted:Picard never told Q “Look at me! I’m a good person! Look at my facile ideals!” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4gbsBlJwo4 zoux fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 22, 2020 |
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Feb 22, 2020 00:16
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One reason that this character doesn't always read as Picard to me is that he doesn't really have a plan. When his back was against the wall and speechifying didn't work Picard would usually clam up and then we would find out he had a strategery plan to make sure the situation turned out in his favor. Like when he guessed Tomalak's ruse in The Enemy and arranged for secret reinforcements 20 minutes before the climax, or when he turned a ship into a remote drone to expose a bad admiral in Ensign Ro. This Picard doesn't have a lick of strategy.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:23
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Are you disagreeing with me here? because he’s talking about humanity
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Feb 22, 2020 00:23
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I would not mind if in the penultimate episode where all is lost and Picard is about to give up hope, John De Lancie pops in for a quick scene. "I can't intervene in what's going on, but there's still hope" Just that.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:25
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Picard haters: what's the most recent star trek thing you actually liked
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Feb 22, 2020 00:27
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zoux posted:Picard haters: what's the most recent star trek thing you actually liked That episode of Discovery with Dwight Schrut as Mudd
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Feb 22, 2020 00:30
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zoux posted:Picard haters: what's the most recent star trek thing you actually liked Star Trek has been bad for a long time my friend. Season 4 of Enterprise, although it was too little too late. Star Trek: Beyond was a step in the right direction. It was an okay two-parter on a theoretical Trek 2009 TV show. But what can you expect considering Simon Pegg had like three weeks to write the script? What was the last Star Trek that wasn't a total shitshow behind the scenes? The Mudd episode of Discovery is an excellent case study on what's wrong with the writing on that show, since it's such a staple hour of genre TV. TNG and Stargate and Edge of Tomorrow all did that concept well. You can find in Discovery how it fails to apply the formula.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:32
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zoux posted:Picard haters: what's the most recent star trek thing you actually liked I watched a bit of some random DS9 episodes last night and they were pretty good.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:33
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picard, an old man, returning soup at the deli.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:33
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piratepilates posted:I watched a bit of some random DS9 episodes last night and they were pretty good. I guess if you want last thing aired, then I remember liking the first JJTrek about 10 years ago when I saw it, it was fun and alright, haven't seen it since. Into Darkness was very mediocre.
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Feb 22, 2020 00:34
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zoux posted:Picard haters: what's the most recent star trek thing you actually liked The Orville e: that Discovery S2 episode where they found an isolated 21st century human colony out in the middle of nowhere felt kinda like Star Trek. Didn’t like the resolution though. Delthalaz fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Feb 22, 2020 |
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Feb 22, 2020 00:34
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