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Danknificent posted:This is the sensible, moderate SC voice I have believed must surely exist! Thank you! I mean we all just like to laugh at the dumpster fire that is SC. I don’t think any of us here hate it in some personal sense. I’ve always said that if you love SC and think it’s on its way to becoming the BDDSE sometime before the heat death of the universe, then go buy that Idris. I don’t have an interest in convincing someone of anything. But, this thread isn’t about creating some impartial review of Star Citizen, so a “moderate voice” is kind of pointless. You have to remember though that even if some playable basic space sim emerges from this, it would still only have about 10% of what Chris has cumulatively promised and the backers threw money at him for. We’re 8 years and 300 million dollars into this mess, and this broken shell of a pre-alpha is all there is. Personally, I play it a few times a year during the free fly events, and I’ve never once had an experience that was fun or instilled me with confidence. Mostly I just muttered constantly to myself “THIS cost 300 million dollars?!”. colonelwest fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 00:05
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colonelwest posted:I don’t think any of us here hate it in some personal sense. Hmm. I think I do hate it in some personal sense, and I know why - I spent entry level cash on this crap back in 2016 because I watched a couple of BoredGamer videos about sandworms and abandoned derelict starships, and thought it looked cool. I mean, done right, with an interesting mission and a compelling back story, this would be awesome  Crobblers does not have the ability or sensibility to carry this off. I know this now.
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Feb 23, 2020 00:27
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Blue On Blue posted:So they're working on making sure the AI is using the right weapon for the situation Do you think people want to believe CIG are making ground breaking progress that goes miles above other games and developers, or do you want to believe they are having difficulty doing things many other game dev studios take for granted? Now which of these options will bring in the most money? That's the option CIG marketing is going with.
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Feb 23, 2020 00:36
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Actually the AI is very good. The matter is the servers who can't handle them. Thats why socs is gamechanging. But just V1 so still not working perfectly. I watched the video and I totally agree with that guy. The AI was just so powerful it was calculating the density of argon in the atmosphere so it picked up because server meshing is not ready yet since the AI for a single guy will be a multi server neural net. The AIs family will be hosting a funeral you can attend later, and you can marry the AIs wife and raise his children badly to really get that ultimate victory over that mission.
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Feb 23, 2020 00:50
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Oh hey, the refunds sub is back. When did that happen? Or was it being locked down due to hate crimes against video games just a fever dream induced by my not sleeping for a month in eager anticipation of my latest Mary Sue ship of this-is-totally-going-to-change-the-way-you-experience-video-games-forever-ness?
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Feb 23, 2020 01:03
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Jonny Shiloh posted:Hmm. I think I do hate it in some personal sense, and I know why - I spent entry level cash on this crap back in 2016 because I watched a couple of BoredGamer videos about sandworms and abandoned derelict starships, and thought it looked cool. That's all SC is the the covers/posters of Sci Fi media pasted into CryEngine mod.
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Feb 23, 2020 01:36
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drat, the issues forum really is just full of banal Carrack deaths and entombments. Oh to do $500 QA. Meanwhile under the roadmap quote:Where the hell are the game mechanics that used to be at least scheduled once upon a time. quote:Wonder how close we are to 1.0 Beta
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Feb 23, 2020 01:55
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 Let them delay it all. They are making ground breaking tech to deliver this interactive story experience. Delay it longer than Duke Nukem for all I care. Just don't release it in a state that isn't ready.For all those who will cry bloody murder that I'm fine with DNF delay times, keep in mind that 3D Realms changed graphic engines 3x during development, effectively restarting each time. Also, they were kind of drug addict partiers in the highest echelons of 3DR. DNF is no reason to fear delays. Delays are often a good thing. It might not apply as much in this modern age of 1.0 early access games that get patched after release, but one of my favorite quotes is from Shigeru Miyamoto. "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."  Are mismanaged games while delaying them for years also eventually good games? Asking for a friend. It doesn't look mismanaged to me. You can't develop tech like this with bad managers at the helm. You're just not used to seeing how ugly development can get. This is unprecedented transparency in this space.
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Feb 23, 2020 02:57
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„CIG, for whatever reason, has opted to keep major technical improvements off the roadmap“ Most open development ever. At least if you ignore the lies and lack of transparency in several crucial segments. Or a sense making roadmap. Or failing to explain why they need 8 years for basic and fundamental game environments. Most open development ever in a way that literally no one knows why there is ridiculous stagnation since years. Staggered development tho. 😂 Mr.PayDay fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 03:01
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Major technical improvements are off the roadmap because there aren't any. 
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Feb 23, 2020 03:07
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They probably dont want to delay it to q4 because a LOT of poo poo is coming out near the end of the year and releasing a buggy mess when a lot of AAA games come out will just make them look like the trash they are. But delaying it to next year will also make them look like the trash they are. Cant win
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Feb 23, 2020 03:09
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Quavers posted:
Ground breaking tech 😂 NOTHING of anything CIG is developing is „groundbreaking“ lmao. This narrative and cognitive dissonance are amazing. What exactly do they think is groundbreaking? They already are years behind NMS and their „technology“ and content, and that’s absurd in some way because Hello Games had a history in lying and they needed 3 years to patch and update into a state that was expected at launch. They actually redeemed themselves and finished NMS. In the same time the SC POS PTU got caves and mining and prison crap, with 500 people staff+devs and 300+ Million Dollars sunk. In the same time 0% of SQ42 are released or even shown as playable demo. lol This is good for Star Citizen’t.
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Feb 23, 2020 03:09
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Squadron 42 is notably absent from these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaporware https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_media_notable_for_being_in_development_hell  Therefore Star Citizen and Squadron 42 are cool and good! 
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Feb 23, 2020 03:29
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It's hard to overemphasize how unplayable the game is right now on the PTU. I spent a couple hours in it today, trying to do literally anything. * NPC pirate ships now teleport inside of buildings, colliding with and killing players inside. I'd just be at a console or whatever minding your own business and then BAM a buccaneer would just appear in the hallway, crushing me. This happened over and over again. * Respawns are completely hosed. I got stuck in a nightmare loop where I'd spawn at the L1 rest stop, get out of bed and fall through the floor, then spawn in again. The one time I managed not to die, the elevators were just broken and I couldn't leave the wank pod level. I eventually EVA'd out through the wall of the space station and hitched a ride to Port Olisar where I died, and immediately respawned back at the broken wank pod. * Ships are a loving mess. Everything is jittery, everything is broken, about 90% of the HUD is non functional. If you log out in a ship's bed you might log in at the ship, or in a wank pod, or in the middle of the sun. This happened to me. I was so far from everything that I couldn't even set course because I didn't have enough fuel to make the trips. I blew the ship up and ended up back in a broken wank pod. * The new Carrack is a goddamn death trap. The safest thing to do if you get in one is RUN to the med bay and set your respawn point there, because you are likely to die multiple times to poo poo like clipping through the floor. * There have been no mechanical or flight improvements that I can detect. The combat is still intensely unfun. * Travel times are as bad as ever, with the added bonus on the PTU that I crashed to desktop about 50% of the time when entering quantum travel. This would of course result in waking up back in the broken wank pods if I tried to log back in. So, no write-up because I literally did not manage to get more than 5 minutes away from a spawn point in the entire course of the evening. It's just completely unplayable and Citizens are so enamored over the mess hall or whatever in their stupid loving 500 dollar ship that they don't seem to notice that their game is rotting from the inside out.
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Feb 23, 2020 04:25
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Sarsapariller posted:It's hard to overemphasize how unplayable the game is right now on the PTU. I spent a couple hours in it today, trying to do literally anything. My theory about why backers accept all this poo poo is that they're under the impression that they are "bugs" that will be fixed, as is normal during the course of legitimate game development. I'm pretty sure they're not going out of their way to accept the reality that Chris is a hack, the bugs will never be fixed because they're not bugs, they're the inevitable artifacts of foundational failure and ignorance. It's the reason backers keep saying "CIG is doing things never done before." They see CIG implementing something relatively new, let's take multi-crew ships with docking and EVA and boarding battles and that kind of poo poo as the example, and the screenshot and in-game models, taken at face value, make it look like they're actually accomplishing it. But that's the thing with a model-viewer - it can make anything look like it's happening. Under the hood, nothing CIG has made is functioning on any level whatsoever. You can't build spaceship models and then attach functionality. The functionality has to be a base feature of the game itself, and then that feature is instantiated for the appropriate ships. You can't just make a ship and say "this one fires missiles." You make a play area, you nail down physics, you decide how missiles will work, you get the whole thing working. The ship that fires the missiles is the last part of that equation. But that's what people are buying, so CIG has to do things wrong or funding will dry up. Star Citizen is a crowdfunding project where the backers pay to make certain that making the product is impossible.
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Feb 23, 2020 04:34
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If Citizens are happy with pretty ships and scenery while delivering boxes they should just make that game. It worked out for Kojima.
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Feb 23, 2020 06:47
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Scruffpuff posted:My theory about why backers accept all this poo poo is that they're under the impression that they are "bugs" that will be fixed, as is normal during the course of legitimate game development. I'm pretty sure they're not going out of their way to accept the reality that Chris is a hack, the bugs will never be fixed because they're not bugs, they're the inevitable artifacts of foundational failure and ignorance. Nah, they know things are hosed but will never admit to it, not even to themselves. That's part of the charm.
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Feb 23, 2020 07:03
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Quavers posted:
Of course that's their favorite quote. It's false hope. Meanwhile Crobbler hopes that his project, built on hacks and sloppy edits of an old and entirely unoptimized engine for what the project was supposed to be, will be carried by future hardware (CPU and GPU) power and probably higher connection bandwidth speed, and all issues will be magically resolved. Dolts proclaiming that "PC Gaming would be saved" used to dream of a game that would take advantage of every bit of the available power of their awesome existing or next probably quite expensive state of the art for 2014 hardware and prove once and for all that consoles are the reason for technical compromises and fidelity downgrades. After eight years in a under delivering pre-alpha and probably their second or third $1000+ system upgrade since SC was supposed to release, the dream shifted to maybe this thing will eventually release and they'll be able to run it without crashes on 2025 hardware. Maybe. But right, publishers bad and evil. Delays good. No context needed, no lessons to be learned from actual game development history or the recent crowd funding bubble bursting paradigms. Uncle Miyamoto said so.
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Feb 23, 2020 07:54
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Prison gameplay lookin good https://i.imgur.com/mGPHZk2.gifv
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Feb 23, 2020 07:57
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At some point I recall people talking about how Chris would bring old school computer wizardry that has been lost to the ages and make crazy optimisations. When did that change into hoping computers would one day catch up to their unoptimised code?
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Feb 23, 2020 08:22
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AbstractNapper posted:Of course that's their favorite quote. It's false hope. Its also an out of date quote, back from the days when you had to get it right when you released a game because there was no easy way to patch games. Its just another example of backers living in the past. The quote should be updated to: A delayed game is delayed, a rushed game is rushed, neither is a guarantee of anything good or bad.
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Feb 23, 2020 08:50
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Agony Aunt posted:Its also an out of date quote, back from the days when you had to get it right when you released a game because there was no easy way to patch games. They're living in the past, present, and future simultaneously. They live in the past when they quote "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." They live in the present when they say "This is an alpha. We're watching the game come together in real time with constant patching." They live in the future when they say "This will be the BDSSE when it comes out in CurrentYear+2." They're wrong in all three time periods.
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Feb 23, 2020 08:53
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Scruffpuff posted:They're living in the past, present, and future simultaneously. A rather funny situation overall.
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Feb 23, 2020 08:58
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Pixelate posted:drat, the issues forum really is just full of banal Carrack deaths and entombments. Oh to do $500 QA. "maybe only another 5-6 years" before beta gently caress me lmao
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Feb 23, 2020 09:02
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lobsterminator posted:So this is the secret for an eternal scam. The old whales deplete themselves, but a new generation comes along who make fun of the old whales, yet become whales themselves. The few game journos doing their real jobs couldn't stop Crobbers; Derek Smart couldn't stop Crobbers; Crytek couldn't stop Crobbers; Disgruntled crowd-funders couldn't stop Crobbers; None of the FUDsters on here could stop Crobbers; Basically the Star Citizen scam will reach its conclusion whenever Crobbers decides how he wants to end it. nnnotime fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 09:28
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colonelwest posted:
H8 here.
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Feb 23, 2020 09:57
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Sarsapariller posted:It's hard to overemphasize how unplayable the game is right now on the PTU. I spent a couple hours in it today, trying to do literally anything. I like this new episode of NPCs declaring war on the playerbase 
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Feb 23, 2020 09:57
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Also, is it just me or does the default newbie start in X4 put you in the Argon Federation? 
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Feb 23, 2020 10:02
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Agony Aunt posted:Its also an out of date quote, back from the days when you had to get it right when you released a game because there was no easy way to patch games. Not only that, but he has expanded on it. https://www.nintendo-insider.com/shigeru-miyamoto-reflects-on-his-most-famous-quote/ quote:“I didn’t mean to say a bad game is always bad, what I meant to say is if you release a game in a bad state you will always regret it,” Miyamoto explained when asked by TheJWittz. Now where has chris ever said he regrets the state that star citizen is in again?
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Feb 23, 2020 10:10
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stingtwo posted:Not only that, but he has expanded on it. He absolved himself of all regret.
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Feb 23, 2020 10:15
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My favorite part about arguing with Star Citizens is this:quote:Star Citizens: Star Citizen is the most innovative and ambitious game ever made. No other company is attempting anything like this... quote:Also Star Citizens: Games today are just carbon-copies of each other , with improved graphics. Nobody is truly innovating anymore. That's why we need Star Citizen to revolutionize the gaming industry"! I don't want to be accused of strawmanning or over-generalizing, and I have no specific reddit-post on-hand to quote, but I've seen these arguments time and time again, along with "most open development " . So I'm gonna ask, have any of you also ran into this? Sample_text fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Feb 23, 2020 |
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Feb 23, 2020 11:43
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The above goes in line with that infamous reddit gold-post that double-thinks its way to: "It's normal to be delays, and I accept it because they're honest" and "It's normal for the marketing to lie to you, and I accept it because everyone does it"
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Feb 23, 2020 11:48
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There's definitely an issue of graphics vs art direction. Star Citizen has "lots of graphics" but zero art direction. Everything is just generic and bland. Who cares if the bland looking crates have 30 000 polygons. Same with Crysis games which the pcmasterrace crowd always praises. Lots of detail, but not really interesting to look at. I much prefer games where someone actually thought about colors and lighting and visual style. I'm still a big fan of Frontier: Elite II graphics to this day, because it has such an interesting color palette. Blue space and weird purple/green planets. I'm sure RSI has an art director employed in paper, but in reality CR probably overrules all their decisions and prevents any kind of style to evolve.
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Feb 23, 2020 13:22
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Sample_text posted:My favorite part about arguing with Star Citizens is this: This chapter one in the SC old testimamint, the book of I cannot think for myself and pledge for your absolution. Forget unknown worlds (subnatica) letting you look at there live Trello board, that's not open. They even had one guy doing all his modelling uploaded to you tube. There is like 4 days of him making jelly caves verison 1. They alao uploaded their proc gen tools to steam so anyone could have a crack at using them. Yet cig making GBS threads out dreams txt of a roadmap, they don't even stick too or doesn't even hint at the finish line "is seeing the sausage getting made" that has never done before!! They are the cutting edge of open development. It's just a bunch of helpless twats repeating marketing spiel word for word. 90% of CIG's 'transparency" is just marketing and hype feed. Another example open development the cool dudes making fox hole used to do a live monthly show taking about what was comming up what failed and what worked and the issues they were trying to address it was real super open development. Factoroi put a weekly Dev blog every Friday and he explained in great detail what he had been working without fail. But i guess that's 2d so it dosent count..
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Feb 23, 2020 14:09
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Try finding common sense in religion.
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Feb 23, 2020 14:19
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Scruffpuff posted:They're living in the past, present, and future simultaneously. But in which time line does Chris and his own branch of SC with his legendary refactored physics exist in? Dosent working in 3 different time lines speed up development?
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Feb 23, 2020 14:23
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lobsterminator posted:There's definitely an issue of graphics vs art direction. I think Star Citizen has some nice stuff in isolation. I'd go a different way to describe Chris and the art direction as a whole though. It's like when you see a kid playing with their toys. Maybe they've got a big plastic dinosaur, a toy car, an action figure, maybe a lego spaceship. Come on kid, you're four years old now, you should know better. None of those toys are in the same scale or even from the same time period, they shouldn't be interacting with each other. Grow up!
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Feb 23, 2020 14:27
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This game will never fully be released. It will continue to get delayed until Chris reaches the 'how much money is too much money' point and he disappears like Sandi already has or the final whales are out of blubber and they claim production can't continue due to lack of further production funds Chris is a greedy scam artist so the second scenario is the most likely
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Feb 23, 2020 14:55
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nnnotime posted:Basically the Star Citizen scam will reach its conclusion whenever Crobbers decides how he wants to end it. Crobbers, a film finance guy, Calders’ representative on the board and a contract worth $46 million, plus whatever gap finance they believe they can get for another few years development. If he was his own master, Crobbers might have that pull, but it’s been eroding quite thoroughly since the 2016 hiccup.
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Feb 23, 2020 15:30
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Sample_text posted:My favorite part about arguing with Star Citizens is this: Time and again. You can show them stuff that has done these things before, sometimes decades before, and then they move the goalposts to "not on this scale" or "not with this level of fidelity" or "not all at once" where a) this does not invalidate it being done before and b) CIG still haven't done most of what is being claimed anyway.
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Feb 23, 2020 15:52
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