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Oh Lovely Joe, you forgot a bit there chiefLizard Combatant posted:Oh and Zadegan's background is Iranian, not Indian. If that ever actually mattered to you. Ah, so you were just joking. Just having a bit of fun. Definitely not Kramering into the thread like clockwork to post rhetorical vitriol about other posters. See it's just fun jokes when you call the thread at large "loving idiots", right? But I'm the one on a hair trigger. Also massive lol that you made sure to trim my post to omit the part where you confuse Persian and "Indian" (lol) ethnicity while calling out others on their... well, no, you just said it wasn't "racisim"... let's call it... Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I would like to applaud the inhabitants of this loving awful thread for being so attuned to the ideals of Roddenbery that they can't see the difference between the Greek and Indian races.
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Feb 24, 2020 14:33
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| # ? May 24, 2024 07:27 |
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I will never get enough of Robert PicardNo.
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Feb 24, 2020 14:33
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I’m assuming this is a still photo from the Disco S3 finale, and the former Empress is still on the show https://twitter.com/jonathansfrakes/status/1231934107052961792?s=21
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Feb 24, 2020 14:41
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Ehh. I like Michelle Yeoh well enough but she really saturated Discovery. I hope they scale her way back this season.
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Feb 24, 2020 14:54
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Martytoof posted:Ehh. I like Michelle Yeoh well enough but she really saturated Discovery. I hope they scale her way back this season.
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Feb 24, 2020 15:38
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I like Star Trek.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:02
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Well buddy you're in the wrong thread
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Feb 24, 2020 16:06
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marktheando posted:I like Star Trek. Season 2 is pretty good.
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Feb 24, 2020 16:07
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Lizard Combatant posted:Oh Lovely Joe, you forgot a bit there chief Why do you cry so much?
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Feb 24, 2020 16:16
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Regarde Aduck posted:Why do you cry so much? 
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Feb 24, 2020 16:24
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Yum yum
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Feb 24, 2020 16:46
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So this idea that the Federation is a perfect utopia is just represented by rhetoric from whatever ship we're following. Anytime the crews interact with other crews/officers/star bases/whatever the main conflict seems to invariably be that the Enterprise crew is trying to uphold the ideals of the federation whereas our other Starfleet dudes are telling them they need to cotton on to how the galaxy really works man. What are the episodes where we see this perfectly-realized, peaceful utopia that isn't entirely contained within the Starships Enterprise?
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Feb 24, 2020 19:29
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I really want to like Picard. Hell, I genuinely enjoy Discovery. But...how is the dialogue in Picard just so loving bad sometimes? It’s on the level of teenage-written fan fiction from 2002 poor, especially this past episode.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:44
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zoux posted:What are the episodes where we see this perfectly-realized, peaceful utopia that isn't entirely contained within the Starships Enterprise? Conspiracy is literally the first thing that came to my mind. It's obviously not a good example of what you want, but it's the first time in TNG that we see Earth, I think? And it's been taken over by evil bugs. I don't know that the Federation was ever said to be a peaceful Utopia, but it was stated that Earth, at least, was such a place. Or a paradise, however they wanted to refer to it. And there were lots of lines, particularly in TNG, about how humans have moved beyond money and accumulation of things and were now a more advanced race that didn't care about such trivial concerns. (It always seemed like bluster to me, but that's besides the point.) The first time I can remember seeing what they meant by "utopia" was some episodes of DS9 where Sisko's dad owned a restaurant and somehow had waiters and stuff and none of it involved money? Or wanting accumulation of things? It was all very confused because none of it made sense when you tried to think about it. DS9 even lampshaded it in a conversation between Nog and Jake. Because it was stupid.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:48
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Deep Space Nine interacted with literally thousands of ships but episodes where Chief O'Brien and Chief Engineer Sporkx cooperate to get the USS T'macco's dilithium chamber working aren't going to make the cut for an interesting episode (outside of a C-plot where Nog trades a bunch of things for a new chamber) Sporkx going on a shooting spree because he realized that logically war is a force that will lead to our own obliteration would make the cut. If you remember older TNG episodes where they interacted with various starship captains, most of them were just boring dudes who they had conversations with via video phone after they dropped the Passenger of the Week off before their ship flew off for Survey Mission #141244142. Most of that got phased out by later seasons when the pacing picked up, but DS9 used it when Bashir met the lady who was ahead of him in medical school and found out her dream assignment that she got to pick over him was yet another boring survey mission. I do think they have leaned too heavily into Evil Starfleet lately, but the version on Picard seems to have an actual reason that fits with the plot while Discovery just had Section 31 running around for namedropping reasons.
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Feb 24, 2020 19:54
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zoux posted:So this idea that the Federation is a perfect utopia is just represented by rhetoric from whatever ship we're following. Anytime the crews interact with other crews/officers/star bases/whatever the main conflict seems to invariably be that the Enterprise crew is trying to uphold the ideals of the federation whereas our other Starfleet dudes are telling them they need to cotton on to how the galaxy really works man. They are all the episodes where the utopia is being threatened by fascism, surveilance, or conspiracies. Or where they are dicking around outside Starfleet HQ and we to are to infer it is a paradise because the weather is nice that day
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Feb 24, 2020 19:56
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Measure of a Man, Drumhead, Redemption, Chain of Command, Pegasus, First Duty, off the top of my head, are all TNG episodes with Federation bad guys.Drink-Mix Man posted:They are all the episodes where the utopia is being threatened by fascism, surveilance, or conspiracies. Yeah the idea that TNG was all about this glorious utopian future is just selective memory. I'm at a loss to think of a single episode where outside Starfleet personnel are anything but antagonists. Not to mention Cmdr. Calvin "Hutch" Hutchinson As for post scarcity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTVDzNWwFIE zoux fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 19:59
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You don't want to know about the warcrimes committed by Captain Fraiser in the years after "Cause and Effect"
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Feb 24, 2020 20:02
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zoux posted:Chain of Command Jellico was a big ol sourpuss but he wasn't a bad guy
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Feb 24, 2020 20:03
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Jellico was a big ol sourpuss but he wasn't a bad guy Fuckin A, Jellico was awesome. If anything, Riker was the bad guy there.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:06
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ashpanash posted:Fuckin A, Jellico was awesome. If anything, Riker was the bad guy there. riker really pulled a Burnham on that one
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Feb 24, 2020 20:08
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One of my favorite TNG episodes is "The Most Toys," which definitely implies there's a healthy economy and trade in the galaxy that isn't explicitly tied to Federation starships. Nor can the Federation be completely self-sufficient without trading with outside partners.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:11
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How does a post-scarcity and utopian society let Tasha's rape planet happen
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Feb 24, 2020 20:12
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Thom12255 posted:How does a post-scarcity and utopian society let Tasha's rape planet happen Yeah I was just about to post that! Humans have evolved and all, but not beyond 'rape gangs' apparently
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Feb 24, 2020 20:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2TDf9XU09k&t=116s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D2SHNqkjbY&t=55s Also: Root. Beer.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:17
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Thom12255 posted:How does a post-scarcity and utopian society let Tasha's rape planet happen I think it's explained that they're a failed colony that aren't actually part of the Federation and the Federation don't do anything because the Prime Directive somehow applies or something.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:17
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The entire plot of Insurrection is about an evil cadre of SF officers who want to relocate an entire people Trail-of-Tears style so they can get at Nechayev straight up ordered Picard to genocide the Borg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWinCjA-gzY zoux fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 24, 2020 |
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Feb 24, 2020 20:21
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eventually they're going to make a star trek that's just raw footage of a man screaming from a lawn chair because in reality it was always about that wasn't it?
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Feb 24, 2020 20:30
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I mean, a good reason why you don't see episodes devoted to people just having a nice time on earth is that it wouldnt make for great TV. There's hints of it, people on vacation, visiting relatives, etc... But without conflict, why would you spend much time there in your 40 minute TV show? Same reason you don't see people using the toilet in 99% of adventure TV, but only Star Trek fans are the type to (usually jokingly) infer that it's because there actually aren't toilets. Show us in the schematics or it didn't happen  There's inconsistencies and flaws because it's written by humans from our time. There are examples of casual sexism in the writing, so do you infer then that it's a common part of Federation society or accept that it was probably just written by a 20th century man? But you should absolutely criticise those elements too. You can like something whilst also acknowledging and examining its flaws. So yeah, when you do see earth and the wider Federation it is usually going to be in the context of something internal or external threatening it. That doesn't mean it's not a valuable part of the show, it's the setting that informs the characters and how they respond to challenges. You occasionally want to see people fighting to protect it to remind you why it's worth protecting. I think that's all that folks who are disappointed with this direction are; disappointed. The setting was for a lot of people as or more important than any one character and I'm sure most would have preferred a new cast of characters exploring the unknown. I don't hate that they've gone with a compromised Federation for their story, but I don't love it either. I don't think we'd seen all the potential of a limitless galaxy worth of ideas that you could have done instead, but as I've said before, if the ending is thematically consistent and poignant then that's all I can really ask for.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:40
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Tighclops posted:eventually they're going to make a star trek that's just raw footage of a man screaming from a lawn chair because in reality it was always about that wasn't it? Literally choked on my tea a little. Now I can't get this image out of my head.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:43
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The Federation has always been compromised, evinced by the fact that no one can even name a single episode where this idealized Federation exists outside of the decks of the Starship Enterprise. Oh because that would make for boring stories: then why are you complaining about Picard so much, too exciting for you?
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Feb 24, 2020 20:47
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Brawnfire posted:What if Picard just stopped appearing in Picard entirely and they never addressed it Anytime Picard isn’t onscreen, the other characters should be asking, “Where is Picard?”
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Feb 24, 2020 20:47
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zoux posted:The Federation has always been compromised, evinced by the fact that no one can even name a single episode where this idealized Federation exists outside of the decks of the Starship Enterprise. Picard is boring because it's blatantly attempting to ape other genre conventions that have become tired cliches in the time that Star Trek has been away from television in an attempt to be relevant. The result is often laughable by itself but especially when juxtaposed with whatever world Trek was trying to portray in the past, whether you or I think they were successful at that or not.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:57
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Tighclops posted:Picard is boring because it's blatantly attempting to ape other genre conventions that have become tired cliches in the time that Star Trek has been away from television in an attempt to be relevant. The result is often laughable by itself but especially when juxtaposed with whatever world Trek was trying to portray in the past, whether you or I think they were successful at that or not. drat and here I was enjoying it, like a fool.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:02
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zoux posted:The Federation has always been compromised, evinced by the fact that no one can even name a single episode where this idealized Federation exists outside of the decks of the Starship Enterprise. I don't know man, I thought something like Homefront/Paradise Lost were good episodes and entirely consistent with what I just said if you want a specific example.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:02
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Lizard Combatant posted:I don't know man, I thought something like Homefront/Paradise Lost were good episodes and entirely consistent with what I just said if you want a specific example. The ones with the attempted coup 
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Feb 24, 2020 21:03
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zoux posted:The ones with the attempted coup Do you want to go into the specifics or are you just being glib? And yeah I chose that particular two parter deliberately.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:06
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zoux posted:drat and here I was enjoying it, like a fool. Why would that make you a fool? Has anyone said or even implied that you or anyone else would be a fool for enjoying it?
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Feb 24, 2020 21:12
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Giggs posted:Why would that make you a fool? Has anyone said or even implied that you or anyone else would be a fool for enjoying it? That's true, I guess the foolish thing would be continuing to watch a show I hate so I could bag on it on the internet.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:15
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ST:P S02E01 "Picard Dies" We open on a sun-lit bed. Picard lies upon it, staring in wonder at something. Then he dies. He doesn't say anything. He is dead now. What did he see? I don't know. What do you think he see'ed? Saw, sorry. What do you think he saw before he died? I'm not writing it, that's for the viewer
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Feb 24, 2020 21:20
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