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In "The Emissary" (TNG episode, not Emmisary DS9 episode) K'Ehleyr does mention that it took outside help for her parents to conceive.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:35
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zoux posted:Well, they did that before the onset of multi-cellular life. We can't hybridize with species on this planet Or can we?? 
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Feb 24, 2020 20:40
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I'm just saying, it should be orders of magnitude easier to hybridize like a human and an alligator than a human and a Klingon. Even "seeding DNA" on planets wouldn't guarantee, or even make it likely, that humanoid sentients would arise. Our most respected evolutionary biologists don't even believe that would be the likliest outcome if you rewound Earth itself to that primordial soup The reason that aliens are all humanoids with weird foreheads, minus like the Tholians and Horta etc, is budgetary reasons and practical effect limitations of a low-budget 1960s sci fi network show, so I wish that they'd stop trying to figure out canon reasons for why old Klingons look like Ming the Merciless. As I recall we never saw a Tholian on screen until ENT and a Horta was a dude with some colorful carpet thrown over him.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:54
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evilmiera posted:This boils down to "Which Captain Was Better" chat, but I don't think Sisko was a better leader. In fact I would say he was an outright worse leader in a lot of respects: He wasn't as smart, had values and morality almost as flexible as Janeways and often butted heads with people when he didn't have to, just to maintain his reputation as a hardass (which always made him come off as weaker, to me). Flexible morality and contextual values are good things in a leader! The alternative is you get a George W who stays the course no matter how wrong it is.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:58
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zoux posted:As I recall we never saw a Tholian on screen until ENT They were shown in "The Tholian Web" just from the head up though.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:10
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Who cares, let aliens fiddle with one another's funky junk and make a baby if it helps the story
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Feb 24, 2020 21:18
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Cloaca on crab flap action
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Feb 24, 2020 21:20
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I've always assumed that the Non Changelings didn't just seed life, but had an active hand in ensuring that varied but biologically compatible life arose. Like that RNA is secretly an artificial construct functioning as a nanomachine to make sure at least one species arose on every planet capable of interbreeding.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:25
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Or is it that Dukat has pah wraith penis that can impregnate with 100% accuracy. If so then let me be the first to say, jesus chrust DS9 has too much anime
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Feb 24, 2020 21:31
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Sash! posted:I've always assumed that the Non Changelings didn't just seed life, but had an active hand in ensuring that varied but biologically compatible life arose. Like that RNA is secretly an artificial construct functioning as a nanomachine to make sure at least one species arose on every planet capable of interbreeding. "This is not part of a natural design, captain. This is part of an algorithm coded at the molecular level." "An algorithm? Are you saying that these DNA fragments are elements in some kind of computer program?" "I know how it sounds, but there's no way this could be a random formation. This is definitely part of a program." "This fragment has been part of every DNA strand on Earth since life began there and the other fragments are just as old. Someone must've written this program over four billion years ago." "So…four billion years ago someone scattered this genetic material into the primordial soup of at least 19 different planets across the galaxy?" "The genetic information must have been incorporated into the earliest lifeforms on these planets and then passed down through each generation." "But why would anyone do this in the first place?" "And what was this program designed to do?" "Well, we couldn't know that until we assembled the entire program and ran it. We've tried all of the DNA material in the Federation computer but we haven't been able to come up with any compatible proteins." "Then, they must be from worlds outside the Federation." - La Forge, Picard, Crusher, and Data That's specifically what's said, I dunno enough about DNA to say if that gibes with your head canon
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Feb 24, 2020 21:34
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I mean you would have more in common genetically with a tree than with anything extraterrestrial.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:35
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You'll also be pleased to know that part of the DNA programming is accelerated lifecycles, in order to propagate the most generations possible in the shortest time. Up until warp capability, all humans that have lived and died have done so with aggravated sex drives, earlier reproductive periods, shorter lifespans, and programmed cancers. As soon as the program runs out, humans get to live incredibly long, healthy lives naturally.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:35
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marktheando posted:I mean you would have more in common genetically with a tree than with anything extraterrestrial. My ent-wife....
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Feb 24, 2020 21:36
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If I remember right the Doctor Who explanation was that early Time Lords were really racist and were so disgusted by weird aliens that they time travelled and interfered with evolution on countless planets including earth, to make aliens mostly look like Time Lords.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:40
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perverts
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Feb 24, 2020 21:55
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Star Trek is a world where "head, shoulders, knees and toes" is guaranteed to be vulgar to at least 1 species in the room
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Feb 24, 2020 21:57
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Imagine being from the species of that dude on Rura Penthe with dick knees
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Feb 24, 2020 21:59
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Pick posted:Star Trek is a world where "head, shoulders, knees and toes" is guaranteed to be vulgar to at least 1 species in the room "Not everyone keeps their genitals in the same place" Actual relevant quote (kneepeen)
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Feb 24, 2020 22:05
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Honestly the only species interbreeding that I think is actually implausible is that one guy in TNG who had a Romulan grandfather when earlier in the show there was a whole song and dance about how Romulan space had been totally closed off for like a hundred years. But that's more just another bit in the column of wildly inconsistent details about the Romulans. zoux posted:The reason that aliens are all humanoids with weird foreheads, minus like the Tholians and Horta etc, is budgetary reasons and practical effect limitations of a low-budget 1960s sci fi network show, so I wish that they'd stop trying to figure out canon reasons for why old Klingons look like Ming the Merciless. As I recall we never saw a Tholian on screen until ENT and a Horta was a dude with some colorful carpet thrown over him. They didn't even have weird foreheads until the 80s! There is also a sort of laziness/unadventurousness beyond just budgetary issues. It's not like Doctor Who's nonhumanoid Daleks or Alpha Centauri blew the budget, and puppets were probably also an option. The Tellarites were probably one of the more complex alien designs of the original series, and TNG just totally ignored them in favor of the weird foreheads. And this was when they were actively spending big money to make alien-looking aliens; they seemed pretty willing to just have aliens that looked like boilerplate humans every so often, it was a definite choice beyond budgetary reasons to keep with the foreheads. I think there was a while when they tended to use the word "humanoid" to describe all sentient species in places where they would probably say "human" if it wasn't a sci fi show. But then the changelings came along and had to make a big show about how their way of thinking and behavior was fundamentally different because of their turning into goop at regular intervals.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:08
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THere are three explanations for the Klingon discrepancy Roddenberry, when asked about it, said that the Klingons in TOS did have weird foreheads we just needed to use our imaginations. Worf said "we don't talk about it with outsiders" ENT explained it with the Klingons trying to use the Khan virus to make supersoldiers which led to problems that made some of the Klingons who used it/were infected by it look more human, which actually kind of makes sense. As far as ST retcons go, it works alright. IDK what the gently caress is up with Disco Klingons, but Picard explained the difference between forehead Romulans and normal forehead Romulans as a regional phenotypical difference, similar to epicanthic folds or melanin skin concentrations in humans. The first Bajoran made a stink face despite their mother's warnings and the bridge of their noses got stuck like that.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:12
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zoux posted:"This fragment has been part of every DNA strand on Earth since life began there and the other fragments are just as old. Someone must've written this program over four billion years ago." I mean, the obvious answer is that Star Trek does biology poorly and we should leave it at that. If we decide to go all-in, this part suggests that whatever this "fragment" is can be found on every single "DNA strand", or chromosome, that's ever existed. This fragment would have to be pretty lengthy in order to do anything mechanistically, but bacteria don't have a lot of extra space between genes on their chromosomes. Whatever it is, it's likely encoded within a gene as a result. Since changing gene sequence will change gene function, the fragment is probably in a "universally conserved" gene. In bacteria, you could place the fragment in a ribosomal RNA gene to stick to the "every DNA strand" rule and not break everything. This doesn't work for eukaryotes, though. Humans have ribosomal RNA genes on some but not all of our chromosomes, so the claim that this sequence is in "every DNA strand" falls completely apart. The claim also completely ignores the existence of plasmids. There are other universally conserved genes but none of them are on every eukaryotic chromosome or bacterial genome. So, uhh. Even when we go all-in, it falls apart really fast, so it's better to just turn your brains off and enjoy your TV shows.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:13
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Falathrim posted:I mean, the obvious answer is that Star Trek does biology poorly and we should leave it at that. Like I said before, the real answer is "network/syndicated TV budgets" so we should stop trying to square that circle and the writers of Star Treks definitely should. But Trekkies are probably the most continuity-obsessed fandom there is so everything has to make sense in-universe or people get irritated. Like, how many plot holes and contrivances and such are created by the existence of transporters, which themselves only exist in ST because they wanted to save the cost of building a shuttle bay set.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:15
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zoux posted:"This is not part of a natural design, captain. This is part of an algorithm coded at the molecular level." It means   and blammo, four billion years later 95% of all sentient life in the galaxy looks and works so much like each other that you just have to do some tinkering under the cellular hood to make their kinky alien sex babbies work out ok.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:34
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The ancient alien humanoid seeding could have a number of ridiculous technological solutions, but none of them really matter because that episode wasn't just a pedantic attempt at plugging a galactic worldbuilding plothole, it was about these very different groups who all hate each other hunting for and fighting over some ancient secret that they all think is a weapon, only to find that it's an old alien telling them about their shared origins that mean they're not so different and probably should get along more. Along with a rare glimpse into Picard's life before Starfleet.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:35
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This just occurred to me, when and how did Qonos become reinhabitable after Praxis?
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Feb 24, 2020 22:36
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Pick posted:There! Is! One! Butthole!
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Feb 24, 2020 22:36
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zoux posted:This just occurred to me, when and how did Qonos become reinhabitable after Praxis? It got better
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Feb 24, 2020 22:37
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SlothfulCobra posted:The ancient alien humanoid seeding could have a number of ridiculous technological solutions, but none of them really matter because that episode wasn't just a pedantic attempt at plugging a galactic worldbuilding plothole, it was about these very different groups who all hate each other hunting for and fighting over some ancient secret that they all think is a weapon, only to find that it's an old alien telling them about their shared origins that mean they're not so different and probably should get along more. I really liked the little coda with the Romulan commander where he and Picard are like "hey, maybe someday after all this Cold War allegory's over with, huh?  " And then JJtrek and all the rest had to take a giant steaming poo poo on the Romulans forever, gently caress
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Feb 24, 2020 22:39
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I've never seen Nemesis because of all the terrible things I've heard, but isn't that what hosed up the Romulans in the prime universe? I think the JJ universe is dead.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:43
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zoux posted:I've never seen Nemesis because of all the terrible things I've heard, but isn't that what hosed up the Romulans in the prime universe? I think the JJ universe is dead. No, in Nemesis the Romulan government gets wiped out and replaced by military dictator (who then gets backstabbed by his underlings). Romulus itself blowing up happened in the JJ movies, but not in their main timeline, rather the regular one that Leonard Nimoy came from to tell the viewers of the movie what the plot is. Romulus in the JJ movie timeline is fine, apparently.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:49
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zoux posted:I've never seen Nemesis because of all the terrible things I've heard, but isn't that what hosed up the Romulans in the prime universe? I think the JJ universe is dead. No, the Hobus supernova as depicted in Star Trek '09 occurred in the Prime timeline. Spock attempted to use red matter to create an artificial black hole to contain the supernova, but it failed; Spock's Jellyfish ship and the Narada were caught in the black hole and traveled through time, creating the Kelvin timeline.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:49
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Weird, so is Picard the first canon prime universe Trek thing to actually reference the JJ universe?
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Feb 24, 2020 22:50
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zoux posted:Weird, so is Picard the first canon prime universe Trek thing to actually reference the JJ universe? They’re not really referencing the JJ universe since those events happened in the normal prime universe. It’s more like the JJ universe is a blank-slate spinoff of the prime universe. I mean technically yeah they’re carrying on with something introduced in Star Trek ‘09, but they’re also doing it in the vaguest possible way.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:52
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zoux posted:Weird, so is Picard the first canon prime universe Trek thing to actually reference the JJ universe? It’s the first thing to be set later in the timeline
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Feb 24, 2020 22:53
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zoux posted:Imagine being from the species of that dude on Rura Penthe with dick knees I thought it was ball knees testknees
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Feb 24, 2020 22:54
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zoux posted:Weird, so is Picard the first canon prime universe Trek thing to actually reference the JJ universe? I don't know that it references it, just that the events that lead to the universe splintering off and existing happened in the Prime universe. Those events didn't retroactively change things that happened in the Prime universe any more than they changed the stuff that happened in Discovery.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:55
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skasion posted:It’s the first thing to be set later in the timeline So by default then. bull3964 posted:I don't know that it references it, just that the events that lead to the universe splintering off and existing happened in the Prime universe. Those events didn't retroactively change things that happened in the Prime universe any more than they changed the stuff that happened in Discovery. It seems to me that it's very rare for movie stuff to actually affect TV stuff and vice versa, usually because the movies come after the shows end. Like, wtf why was the flagship with the most experienced and combat hardened crew in the fleet completely uninvolved in the Dominion War? Does that ever come up in Nemesis?
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Feb 24, 2020 22:58
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Sir Lemming posted:I thought it was ball knees You never know, it could be ovarknees.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:59
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zoux posted:So by default then. Nope. But there were lines on DS9 about the Dominion attacking areas other than Bajor and the surrounding sector, and it’s just assumed the Enterprise fought in a different theater of the war. IIRC there was an anthology book at the time that had them fighting to retake Betazed in one story. You also find out Mr Hohm died in the battle because the Star Trek EU kinda sucks!
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Feb 24, 2020 23:01
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zoux posted:So by default then. It comes up in Insurrection with some bullshit excuse.
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Feb 24, 2020 23:02
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